1/32 Hansa-Brandenburg W.12

[Michael Scarborough]

Ok, Bo, thanks.....that was before my time on the site started. I will do some digging.

I agree that some of the European work has indeed gotten over done, in all aspects of model building and figures. IMHO, the painting has turned into a "can you top this" sort of mentality where we've gone from trying to produce objects that look as realistic as possible in scale, to where the goal seems to be to produce as overly painted and über-affected object as possible. 

But, there's certainly room for everyone.

Michael

[Gisbod]

Ok, Bo, thanks.....that was before my time on the site started. I will do some digging.

I agree that some of the European work has indeed gotten over done, in all aspects of model building and figures. IMHO, the painting has turned into a "can you top this" sort of mentality where we've gone from trying to produce objects that look as realistic as possible in scale, to where the goal seems to be to produce as overly painted and über-affected object as possible. 

But, there's certainly room for everyone.

Michael

I completely agree Michael,

Everyone seems desperate to produce their own extreme technique - but as you say - there's a place for everyone, and each method has its merits. I try to pick out the bits I like and adapt them to my modelling - I think the overall standard of finishing has become very high across the board - due to the sharing of knowledge on forums.

I really like the Zenithal lighting thing - it can be very effective. I had a dabble in the Tamiya 1/48 armour range, super little kits, and I learnt a lot from armour modellers. Here's a Russian JS2 I was experimenting with...






But I find it very hard to transfer that to aircraft for some reason - I think it just lends itself to slabs of armour rather than the curves of an aircraft. Come to think of it - I don't recall ever seeing it to any great effect on an aircraft - I'd like to see some examples if anyone has them?

I find it fascinating!

Guy

Ps apologies for armour pictures Des!  but it's just to demonstrate technique...

[Michael Scarborough]

This is great stuff, Guy...your work is exemplary, be it to replicate fabric or steel plate. Bravo.

I don't want to hijack your thread here so let me close my tangent with a thought from old friend, Andrei Koribanics (may he RIP and, oh, how I miss discussions with him!). Andrei was a graduate of Parsons School of Design and made his living as an artist. He used a lot of light and shadow effects in his gorgeous 1/72 WWI aircraft builds. He was also an astoundingly wonderful figure sculptor and painter and the first person I know of that was employing such techniques that most of us would consider limited to the figure painting world, on model aircraft. But, as he would have said, "an object is an object" and all objects are affected by the light that is hitting them.

I believe the rise in interest in WWI aircraft modeling, and the gathering and disseminating of knowledge on painting techniques in a forum such as Des had created for us, populated with some extremely talented and thoughtful model builders, will push finishing techniques to levels we could never have imagined. And why not? Could you have ever imagined that you'd be working on a 1/32 scale W.12? Let alone a 1/32 Felixstowe?? Our time is at hand, gents.

Cheers from NYC,
Michael

[mike in calif]

Interesting point Michael, and in the general field of 1/32 kits, we are seeing an explosive growth. We are getting unheard of kits in the WWI range, and as Guys see-through effect shows a lot can be done with a careful color selection, and a good idea.
 Maybe this can be pinned as an SBS? I'm going to have to try this on an Eindekker.

[Russell]

I'm continually impressed by some of the AFV & figure modellers with their painting techniques but frankly when I put to one side my admiration of their superb mastery of 'technique' some of even the award winning results remind me not so much of reality but more of stage 'make-up'.

Regards
Russell

[Gisbod]

It does seem to divide the community.. It's a subjective subject!

But to the other extreme - you could paint an aircraft in a uniform colour and say - let the light do its job - but it doesn't look right (to me) the light needs to be 'scaled down' somehow. Anyway, the linen look is a first attempt, hopefully I'll get better at it  with practice 

I've collected all the wood bits together for a mass paint job - hoping to do the oils tonight (the fun bit  ) as I'm away on a trip for 6 days, and it would be super useful to let it start drying before I go!


Guy

[eindecker]

Placing the model in a diorama such that it is best visible from a constrained viewpoint might accomplish painting with the light as required. I don't see how one could do this otherwise.

[WarrenD]

I apologize for continuing the hijack, but heck, it's our forum, we'll get it back on track eventually. 

I agree that some of the effects used by armor and figure painters are overdone to the point that they appear to be caricatures more than a representation of the real thing. Sometimes it appears an award goes out for who can be more extreme, etc. That's just my opinion, and everybody's got one. Or two. Who knows?
Anyway, I was and will continue to be inspired by the work of Shepherd Paine from the 70's onward. Say what you will, but he was doing more with much less early on, and his dioramas, at least in my very humble opinion, not only hold up, but are still far better than the overwhelming majority of work I've seen in recent years. (Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings.) If memory serves, Shepherd Paine's figures were painted with the universal principal that the lighting was coming from overhead. I think that's a reasonable constant to work with.
For those of you wanting to look at Mr. Koribanic's beautiful work, please click on the images and follow on the following pages:
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Koribanics/index.html
(Michael, I was not aware that he had passed away. I'm saddened to hear that.)

Anyway, enjoy Mr. Koribanic's fine work.

Y'all may now get back to the 1/32 Hansa-Brandenburg W.12. 

Warren

[Gisbod]

You're not hijacking it at all Warren..

I love experimenting with new techniques - that's really what inspires me to do the next model - it may be metal or lozenge or lighting or whatever. So chatting about how to get the best from paint styles is key to the thread for me! Any tips and techniques - please post! We all learn from each other..

To my mind, you could be an average builder and transform a model into a masterpiece with paint, but you can ruin a beautifully made model with an average finish...

Guy

[WarrenD]

To my mind, you could be an average builder and transform a model into a masterpiece with paint, but you can ruin a beautifully made model with an average finish...

My thoughts exactly.

Warren

[radio]

Guy it is a great work.
Martin

[BigBlue]

Guy,

This is really lovely work, and a very informative thread!  Awesome.

Chris

[Michael Scarborough]

Guy, this is really getting exciting. Are you sure you can't delay your trip? I want to see what you do with all these wooden parts.

Maybe we should start a separate thread on this painting topic.....

 

Placing the model in a diorama such that it is best visible from a constrained viewpoint might accomplish painting with the light as required. I don't see how one could do this otherwise.

This is a really good point and one that has confounded figure painters for years: you paint a figure as if it's in a specific type of light, say Zenithal, which casts imaginary highlights and shadows, but then you set the figure down on a table at a show and the ambient light creates actual shadows.  Our colleague the Red Baron has said he does his "Zenithal lighting with a light", and he has a really good point......would that we could all take lights with us to shows and cast the exact amount and direction of light on our models that we choose. With the increasing flexibility and transportability of LEDs and battery packs, this may soon be possible. The one sure way to do it is to create box dioramas....but more on that later and in a separate thread.

Re: the Stage Make Up look of some armor builds, I agree totally. Steve Zaloga's builds are, to my eye, the most realistic mainly because he seriously studies armor and the way weather and battlefield conditions affect it. Many of the other guys, especially the Euro crowd have really gone too far. 

My concern is that the same process is beginning to creep into our work with WWI aero models. Someone started to highlight the rib bulges in the wings, which is absolutely correct, but now we see a lot of builds with an almost striped look on the wings. It's like the WWII guys did with panel lines....someone put some subtle wash into a panel line and made it look more realistic. It grew from that to where many of the builds these days looks as if someone took an ink brush and ruler and inked in all the panels, even the raised panels.

OK..sorry if I seem to be ranting.  I think the future is extremely exciting and a lot of wonderful things are already happening in bringing  the level of realism of these kits we build to new heights. As more people with more knowledge join the conversation it will really take off.

Cheers from NYC,

Michael 

[WarrenD]

Michael,
           You've hit on some very valid points. I'd like to address them, but I'd like to do it in another thread so that we don't hijack Guy's thread. Maybe I'll have time to collect my thoughts and start a new thread in a bit.

Warren

[Michael Scarborough]

I'm with you on that, Warren.

Good idea.

Michael