Your Advice Sought On Gaspatch Turnbuckles

[Chris Johnson]

I'm looking for some opinions from members who have used Gaspatch turnbuckles. I've never seen them other than in photographs let alone used them, but I'm tossing around the idea of trying them on a WnW Snipe. As I know next to nothing about them, can someone advise whether the actual castings approach the smooth quality as exhibited in the drawings or are they more coarse? Are they fairly rugged or delicate to employ? The following is the one that appeals to me as it has the eyelet lug already attached which should allow for flexibliity and ease of installation.



Would this be acceptable for an early Snipe?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Chris

[uncletony]

First, they aren't castings at all ...

Instead (I am fairly certain) they are made by a process called "metal sintering"  (DMLS) -- they are basically made of tiny bits of metal powder fused together, layer by layer with a laser.



thus the finish as they come is slightly grainy -- and the staircase effect typical of parts made with 3d printing is evident -- and not anything like as smooth in the 3D rendering when looked at up very close. They can be polished though These photos should give you a pretty good idea of what they look like (very) close up once polished a wee bit:




I think they are incredible, my only nit is that for many uses I think they are a bit over scale. Thus I would suggest getting 1/48 as well as 1/32 sizes.

They are very strong, but care must be taken to ensure that they are aligned with your rigging runs because they don't take kindly to bending -- they have a tendency to bend where you don't want then too (at the head of the TB) or break. My experience is just with experiments, others have more practical experience

[drdave]

I use them and have used most of the types. They are a bit coarser in real life, and rock hard. They work best on German types with big visible turnbuckles like the Pfalz DIIIa.  I use Bobs buckles on the top wing and Gaspatch on the bottom. You need to preorient them to where the wire is going.They are probably a shade over scale in 1/32, but look good. You can usually thread monofilament thru the eyelet, but I can seldom thread EZ line through them and they are too hard and small to drill out. Then I wrap EZ line around the eyelet and seal with CA, with a touch of paint on top.
I think they are less useful for the Snipe, which didnt have turnbuckles. I use Bobs eyelets on thetop and lower wing and sometimes thread it back through and albion alloys tube.

[uncletony]

It is possible to drill the eyelets out with a carbide bit, I've done it, but you must be very patient. Like a quarter turn at most with only gentle pressure before backing off. Eventually the bugger will yield

[Ian from Doncaster]

I was researching these too today. It would be useful if there was a summary somewhere of what "types" match up with each aircraft.  The brief research I have managed today (for Fokker EII/III) is inconclusive as I haven't yet seen a close enough pic to determine which type matches.  I do have some pics somewhere of the aircraft from the Science Museum in London, but the pics are poor quality and may not reveal the turnbuckles.

I do have one of the Eindecker datafile booklets somewhere....

[Chris Johnson]

Thanks for the information (and photos Bo).

. . . They work best on German types with big visible turnbuckles like the Pfalz DIIIa . . . I think they are less useful for the Snipe, which didn't have turnbuckles. I use Bobs eyelets on the top and lower wing and sometimes thread it back through an albion alloys tube.

Based on this then, I'll continue on with my usual monofilament and brass tubing rigging for my Snipe and consider the Gaspatch turnbuckles for my next German build.

Cheers,

Chris

[lcarroll]

    I'll just add a few observations/points as well Chris. The Scale thing is a "player", I see them as a little large in 1:32 however I tried some 1:48 scale ones on the 1:32 Nieuport 28 recently and really liked the result. Note too that the illustration gives the impression that the eyelet portion that goes into the model is open/a swivel however it's part of the casting thus the guys comments about orientation. If you don't get it right it looks horrible as the turnbuckle and rigging don't line up. When you try to bend it after installation you've got a pretty good chance of it breaking. As Bo points out they are a real pain to drill out, I haven't mastered that as yet!
   I like them now that I've made all the mistakes mentioned, but they are not the be all/end all IMHO.
Cheers,
Lance
 

[bobs_buckles]

Thanks for the information (and photos Bo).

. . . They work best on German types with big visible turnbuckles like the Pfalz DIIIa . . . I think they are less useful for the Snipe, which didn't have turnbuckles. I use Bobs eyelets on the top and lower wing and sometimes thread it back through an albion alloys tube.

Based on this then, I'll continue on with my usual monofilament and brass tubing rigging for my Snipe and consider the Gaspatch turnbuckles for my next German build.

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Chris,
 As far as I'm aware, the Snipe employed streamlined rigging and would not of used the barrel shaped turnbuckle commonly used in German and French aircraft.
Stick with 1mm cuts of brass tubing for this project and try the Gaspatch turnbuckles on your next German or French subject.

But, as with all things WW1 aviation, a good source of reference is always your first port of call! Grab the Windsock datafile on the Snipe if you haven't already got it.

Good luck!
Von Buckle 

[drdave]

It's not double rigged either, thankfully.

[Ssasho0]

I'm also using them for a second build now and I love them!
There is only one real issue and that is that the "eye" portion of the turnbuckle is sometimes too small or there is some deffect in it, so you have to drill it. I tried drilling and failed, got few drillbits broken and gave up, but if you don't, then threading EZ line is a pain in the ass. So I came to the following techique - I put a needle in a pin vise, put the turnbuckle on my cutting mat, then press the needle in the eye of the turnbuckle (only the very tip goes in) and start rotating and bending the pin vise in all directions while pressing the turnbuckle to the mat. The trick here is not to let the turnbuckle bend, thats why you are pressing it to the mat, but only the needle moves inside the eye, this way increasing the eye of the turnbucle just a tiny little bit. Repeat 1-2 times from every side of the 2 eyes and then rig the EZ line. It works like a charm!

[petrov27]

As far as the issue with orienting the turnbuckle, I find that using type "C" and attaching it to the fuselage or wing with a loop/eye of fine wire works well - the turnbuckle will orient itself when you pull the line tight....

[eindecker]

As far as the issue with orienting the turnbuckle, I find that using type "C" and attaching it to the fuselage or wing with a loop/eye of fine wire works well - the turnbuckle will orient itself when you pull the line tight....

Hmmm... So what we have is something very close in appearance to a brass tube with twisted wire eyes in each end. Once painted, it should be hard to tell the difference. At least, so it appears.

[petrov27]

Hmmm... So what we have is something very close in appearance to a brass tube with twisted wire eyes in each end. Once painted, it should be hard to tell the difference. At least, so it appears.

I prefer the look of the Gaspatch turnbuckles personally and feel they are worth the effort.

[BigBlue]

Chris,

I used them on my Snipe, but only in limited places, i.e. control lines.  From The Vintage Aviator's site:



They do look somewhat different than those I have made using cut tubing:



The first is a single piece of nickel tube with twisted wire for eyelets, the second is a 1/32 Gaspatch type "C", and the bottom is a prototype of the ones I made using different sizes of slide fit tubing for the internal bracing on my Eindecker.  I am sure that Bob and others craft better looking ones than mine (I'd guess there are those among us that can make functional versions!), but you get the idea. 

For me, I think the Gaspatch look more realistic than the simple tube & wire version as they have a bit of taper to the body and the raised center piece.  A turnbuckle with a body made from slide fit tubing and eyelets from wire would certainly look the part, but rigging an aircraft using these would depend on your appetite for cutting and handling lots of very small pieces of metal tube.  Both "slide" and "fit" can become ironic terms if your cutting process alters the diameter of the tubes in any way.  The relative [cost / appearance / ease of use] optimization is a personal one. 

For what it is worth, I plan on using Gaspatch and wire like Petrov has shown for the wing attachment points on my Eindecker since I don't think I'll be able to mount the ones you show in perfect line with the rest of the rigging.  As others have noted, they don't bend well, and they are a single piece, despite looking like the eyelet should be flexible.

Hope that helps,

Chris