Author Topic: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC  (Read 1923 times)

Offline treadhead1944

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« on: May 06, 2014, 11:30:45 AM »
Are there any biographies on Mick Mannock other than King of the Air Fighters? I am reading that one right now, and I must say it is a tough row to hope. The subject is fascinating, but the author was rather partisan, and it shows.

Thanks!
Jason

Offline lcarroll

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8551
Re: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 12:56:08 PM »
Ira "Taffy" Jones was a great supporter of Mick Mannock's and, IMHO, forwarded his cause in such a biased and fanatical manner that he actually brought  discredit to  Mannock's reputation. See if you can find a copy of "Ace with One Eye" by Frederick Oughton and Comdr. Vernon Smith. It's an un-biased and well written account of the life of a great ace, and a very enjoyable read. After some of the stuff I've read by Jones I've relegated his stuff to the pile of comic books left over from my fantasy filled childhood days. Too bad I feel that way as Jones was an ace and no doubt very much a hero in his own right in his early years........... :o
Cheers,
Lance

Offline Kreston

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
Re: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 10:34:43 PM »
I shall never forget my admiration for that German pilot, who single handed, fought seven of us for ten minutes. I saw him go into a fairly steep dive and so I continued to watch, and then saw the triplane hit the ground and disappear into a thousand fragments...James McCudden

Offline lcarroll

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8551
Re: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 11:21:51 PM »
Kreston,
    Thanks for the Link; I think I'll order this one as it looks good and N. Franks does some pretty good stuff. I wasn't aware of this one until now. :)
Cheers,
Lance

Offline treadhead1944

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 11:25:22 PM »
Lance, Kreston... thanks for the tips, I will check them out. Reading Jones' bio, it has gotten tedious hearing how Mick went across the French countryside curing lepers and such.

Offline Nigel Jackson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2608
Re: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 12:22:46 AM »
Hello Jason

I would endorse what Kreston and Lance have both said. I thoroughly enjoyed reading the Franks and Saunders biography of  Mannock.

Best wishes
Nigel

Offline lcarroll

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8551
Re: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 02:51:05 AM »
    I hope not to start a "bun fight"; a great deal of my distaste for Jone's slant on the subject is rooted in his outspoken and nasty campaign to discredit Bishop to support his efforts to have Mannock recognised as the leading Commonwealth Ace. Both of these pilot's scores, like all I suspect, were not 100% accurate due to the system and also to a large degree, I know, the dynamic nature of aerial combat. Both of these Gentlemen have my utmost respect and admiration. Was Bishop nothing more then a political tool to bolster the morale of a Canadian population emerging into nationhood as has become a very popular past time theory? Perhaps to some degree however of the many participants of the Great War in the Air who left us with their observations and opinions only one seems to have gone well out of his way to malign another, and that's "Taffy" Jones. Mannock was, IMHO, a much better overall leader and Fighter Pilot due to the fact that he was a "Team player" and he led from the front, Bishop was a lone hawk whose score became an end unto itself.
   I've always felt strongly that Mannock's deeds spoke for themselves; he didn't need the sort of support that Jones spent the latter years of his life devoted to.
   Just the musings of a fan of both of these "real men", hope you'll all forgive me approaching the edge of a rant! Perhaps this better belongs in the open discussion Thread, I seys to meself...............
Cheers,
Lance

Offline uncletony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4349
    • Aircraft In Pixels
Re: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2014, 03:20:55 AM »
hmm maybe best not to start poking around in that hornet's nest.  ;)

Offline treadhead1944

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2014, 10:56:29 AM »
Lance, that is the kind of information I am looking for. I also get the feeling that if Mannock had survived the war this controversy would not exist.

Before I started on King of the Airfighters I read a book called No Empty Chairs, which brought up the same issue. There were no answers given, as the book was more about the mental state of the pilots, but it did touch on the subject.

Something that did make me laugh about King is when Jones rails on about The Huns inflating their numbers, and in the same sentence almost excuses the same behaviour in the Allies..

Offline lcarroll

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8551
Re: Edward "Mick" Mannock DFC, MC, VC
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2014, 01:17:16 PM »
   By far the very best and detailed explanation of how each "Side" assessed and awarded victories to their aviators in WWI is in the excellent Trilogy of Records and thumb-nail Biographies of all the Fighter Pilots of WWI, "Above the Trenches", "Over the Front", and "Above the Lines". Norman Franks is the Author/Researcher common to all three volumes. They provide  very detailed and clear statements regarding the vast differences between confirmation criteria and the logic and "drivers" involved and also provide the ultimate reference for basic information on the men who achieved "Ace' (5 Kill) status.
   I believe it's fair to say that, given the "rules" and requirements for confirmation, the German figures were quite probably more accurate or, at the very least, least inflated. If you can find these books (Mine were bought in slightly used condition on Amazon) they'll provide you with a lifetime of excellent references; I must consult mine at least 3-4 times monthly and I enjoy just browsing through them on occasion.
  ............and I too believe the world would have benefited enormously had Mannock survived the War. He, like many who didn't make it, had a lot to offer humankind. :(
Cheers,
Lance