Author Topic: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va  (Read 35028 times)

Offline uncletony

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 04:06:12 PM »
It doesn't show much when it it is closed up.

Offline David

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 07:56:51 PM »
Hi Guy and Bo,

I'm going from memory, which can be and usually is dangerous!  :-[  but the colour looks good to me.  The reason I say this, and I would have to try to find the applicable photo, if I have one, is that my memory of the one fitted to the AWM's Albatros is that it is a darkish brown colour, very similar to the colour you have painted it.  Bo is right, this bulkhead is fabric, and the AWM Albatros bulkhead is partially detached (again from memory, but you can see down to the rear of the fuselage so it is either partially detached or has been removed) but I think you've jagged the colour Guy!  ;)  As Bo said it won't be particularly visible once the fuselage is closed but I know how such details can be niggling if you're not 100% sure about them.  Some other manufacturers such as Fokker tended to use lozenge fabric, and Albatros may have as well, but I think the colour you have painted the bulkhead is accurate, at least for some Albatros aeroplanes.  I will see if I can find a photo.

Regards,

David.

Offline uncletony

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2013, 08:20:00 PM »
I can make a pretty strong case that both CDL and lozenge are plausible and appropriate, if you care. The thing I got wrong in my build was that, while I modified the bulkhead to look like cloth, I didn't know about the large hole in the bottom or its shape (where the tail cables pass thru) I've since collected images of all this.

Offline Gisbod

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2013, 10:40:41 PM »

Thanks David,

I'm sure I've got it wrong, but I've decided to leave the bulkhead anyway - but you've made me feel slightly better about being slapdash! If I'm being honest - I'm quite happy if it looks right on an artistic level to the detriment of factual accuracy.. I'll probably get shot down for that!

Guy
“Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth -
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.”

P.O. John Gillespie Magee 1941

Offline lcarroll

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2013, 12:06:50 AM »
Guy,
    I did my DIII in a rather dark CDL like yours based on photos of the AWM's  DVa  D.5390/17. There's a great photo of the seat with the "Baffle or Screen" in plain view in the "Albatros Fighters" Windsock Datafile Special (Pg. 45, bottom left photo) and, as David recalls, it's not lozenge and is partially open, at the top. Of course the timing on my model was early 1917 before Lozenge was in wide use and yours is a later version. I believe David has the logical interpretation; Albatros  may have used lozenge however not in all cases, whatever was on hand could logically have been used. This all presumes the AWM version is an original component of course. My input: you're just as correct with your brown cover as you would be with a lozenge one. In fact, I don't recall ever seeing photos of lozenge used on this component in any Albatros D Series Fighters but it appears the rule rather then the exception in most others; could be just selective viewing on my part. David may come up with more photos that further reinforce your case.(and mine!)
    She's coming along very nicely, looking forward to more updates from you.
Cheers,
Lance
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 12:13:29 AM by lcarroll »

Offline David

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2013, 01:09:36 AM »
You're very welcome Guy!  8)

That's a very reasonable philosophy, and I don't think you've got it wrong at all.  I go for accuracy as much as possible, but with WW1 aeroplanes I have learned, as I think we all probably have that this is not always possible.  There were so many exceptions to the rule that you just don't always know what is correct and what is not.  Poor restorations, age and weathering and conflicting contemporary accounts also make the determination of original details such as colour close to impossible in many cases.

I don't know for sure, but I think that the bulkhead behind the seat is original in D.5390 / '17.  It was almost completely original before it was restored by a well meaning group in the late 1960's and early 1970's.  On the subject of the mixture of lozenge and plain fabric, this one had a mixture of both!  In the quite well known photo of it at the factory I think I can see the purple and green patch camouflage on the upper surfaces of the upper and lower wings, the light blue on the underside of the lower wing and the lozenge fabric on the underside of the upper wing, as it was when it was captured.  I often wondered if it had been re - covered during service but I have several copies of the factory photo and the better copies seem to indicate that it left the factory in this very unusual mixture of old style and new style camouflage.

Thank you very much for the reference to the Windsock Datafile Special Lance.  I know I have seen photos of the screen but I don't know if I have photos of it in my collection, if I have seen photos of it published or if I simply remember the colour from one of the many research visits.  I have even worked at the AWM on two occasions, but research requests are not always easy to have approved, even for staff members!  Generally it's not a problem if the necessary approval is sought.  I will have a look through my photos, but it could take some time so please don't be shy about a reminder here or there if you don't hear from me.  I intend to catalogue all of my photos, but it is going to be an absolutely massive job, given that I have an estimated 10,000 or so, and who knows how many tens of thousands of digital photos!  ???  Buying photos on eBay doesn't help either.  I bought some very nice 74 Squadron photos a few nights ago (a famous but oddly difficult Squadron to obtain photos of), and some RAF photos taken in Egypt tonight.  I probably buy between about 20 and 50 per week!  More to catalogue and put into books (eventually!  :-[  - it's a very time consuming exercise!) and like all of us I'm not getting any younger!

I don't recall seeing a lozenge cover behind the seat of an Albatros D type either.  I know that at least one Fokker had a lozenge cover behind the seat, and it's still there! (the Knowlton D.VII of course)  The earlier Fokkers which had plain fabric covering almost certainly would not have had lozenge covers, since the reason they were not covered in lozenge was that it was not used at that stage.  Albatroses could be a different story though, since the covering seemed to alternate between plain and lozenge fabric, and in the case of D.5390 / '17, which almost certainly means that this also applies to other Albatros aeroplanes a mixture can be found on a particular aeroplane.  Dan San Abbott stated that they alternated every 50 or so aeroplanes (I think I remember reading this in the last few days) and just to give an idea of how unpredictable the covering is D.7161 / '17 is now believed to have been covered in plain fabric which was painted in patch camouflage, even though it was restored in lozenge fabric, which would naturally be expected with such a late production aeroplane.  If Albatros used lozenge fabric bulkheads behind the seat it would be anyone's guess as to which ones had lozenge fabric and which ones were plain fabric.  The external covering could be an indication but there is no guarantee that the two match, unless the aeroplane was constructed before the introduction of lozenge fabric.  I recently read an estimated date for this but I can't recall where I saw it.

Regards,

David.

Offline Gisbod

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2013, 06:53:54 AM »


Another update..

I'm getting on with the engine - thanks to the forum I've spent a bit more time detailing this than I would have normally, I'm not quite shamed enough to keep up with Bo, but it has at least inspired me to go a bit further!

Despite having the Taurus spark plug set, I elected to use 0.4 & 0.6mm brass rod to represent these. They fit into the existing holes (so they shouldn't get knocked off as easily) neatly and have the added advantage of having a hole at the end to stick a wire into rather than retro gluing, which never looked right to me.. I have used the Taurus rocker arm set however, and I'm pleased I did as they look a lot more detailed in situ than the kit parts...




I did look at a similar technique as Bo on the spark plugs/leads - but frankly, that's beyond my modelling scope!  :o


I'm also using 1mm brass for the ignition cable tube - which also has the advantage of having a hole to have the wires to attach to..





I'd like to drill the six holes along this rod, but I just don't have the right equipment yet - so that may have to be a retro glue job  :-\

Any feedback welcome.

Thanks

Guy


“Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth -
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.”

P.O. John Gillespie Magee 1941

Offline RAGIII

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2013, 07:02:25 AM »
The details on the engine are looking great!
RAGIII
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"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler

Offline Ernie

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2013, 10:42:14 AM »
Good thinking with the use of the brass tube, Guy.  The spark plugs idea
is a winner.  Thanks for giving me some food for thought.

Cheers,
Ernie :)
The new old guy, take two...

Offline uncletony

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2013, 02:09:59 PM »
looking good, Guy!

mike in calif

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2013, 02:28:28 PM »
Nice work, and I like the theory for the spark plugs/wires.

Offline Gisbod

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2013, 10:17:31 PM »


Hi,

Little bit slower than past builds.. Work's kicking in again  :P

Just finished the engine so thought I'd post a few pictures..  a lot more detailed than I would have done in my pre-forum days!  ???











Back to the cockpit next I guess...


Thanks


Guy

“Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth -
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.”

P.O. John Gillespie Magee 1941

Offline Des

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2013, 10:28:46 PM »
The engine looks superb Guy, you have done an excellent job with the colouring, well done.

Des.
Late Founder of ww1aircraftmodels.com and forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

Offline uncletony

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2013, 10:29:30 PM »
Excellent!

Offline Ernie

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Re: WNW's 'Wooden Wonders' Albatros D.va
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2013, 10:37:03 PM »
Beautiful job on the engine, Guy!  First rate.  Your model
is going to be a stunner when you are done.  I'm looking
forward to more updates.

Cheers,
Ernie :)
The new old guy, take two...