PC-12

[kinnies]

Hello everyone,

I know that colours can be a minefield and I am not overly anal when it comes to finding an exact match, but I'm wondering about PC-12. The WNW Tripe lists Tamiya XF-10 as the correct colour, and I am not necessarily challenging that, as they have way more expertise than I. However, it doesn't seem quite right to me - perhaps a little too red and a little too light? I'm waiting for the Misterkit PC-12 to arrive before I can compare, but does anyone have any experience/knowledge of this particular version of pigmented cellulose? What might be the most accurate rendition?
Cheers,
John

[kornbeef]

I have to agree with RB here. It's so easy for manufacturors to pick a colour in a preset range and state that will be close enough.

Personally I'd go chocolate brown but Misterkit are pretty good at hitting colours so wait for it to arrive I'd say.

Keith

[GAJouette]

There is no exact match, it varied by batch and weathering, but something more chocolatey brown than red brown seems to be the current thinking.

   John,
I'd have to agree with Red Baron here. to that I'd add choose what shade looks the best to you and go with it.

 "Personally I'd go chocolate brown but Misterkit are pretty good at hitting colours "
Again I'm in complete agreement with Keith here. Misterkit is my personal favorite when it comes to color matches for most of my WW I projects especially the French and British colors.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette

PS: Looking forward to your Tripe my friend.

[ALBATROS1234]

i have the misterkit pc-12 and pc-10 for that matter and i didnt like either. the pc-10 seemed to light and too green to me and the pc-12 seemed too light and too greyish. matter of fact i like the mister kit pc-12 but not for pc-12 if that makes any sense. it looks like a nice khaki too my eyes. i tend to lean in btw a choc brown and red brown. but like they said. it varied from pot to pot and it weathered quick so who really knows. noone.

[kinnies]

Hi all.

I received the Misterkit paint today and decided to squirt some on my Tripe.



On the left is the Tamiya XF10, on the right the MK PC-12 (which went on beautifully, and is still wet in the photo, btw).

What a difference, despite the naff photo. Question is, which is the more accurate? To my eye, the Tamiya is closest to all the pics I've seen.

Cheers,
John

[ALBATROS1234]

like i said the misterkit pc-12 looks like khaki. imho it would look better on a brit uniform than a supposed pc-12 aircraft. this is of course only my opinion. but from the photos ive seen and descriptions of chocolate brown to red brown the misterkit just isnt right. add some german red brown and burnt umber to it and you might have something. i have my own mix that i matched to the color photos ive seen online. i tryed to shoot for the shuttleworth bristol m1c color. taking into account lighting and shadow i combined the final product  from several photos.but in the end there is no proof they got it perfect.

http://www.werkost.com/M1C.htm

[lcarroll]

  Unless my monitor is completely out on colour presentation your MK on the right looks very close to my mix for PC10. (very much a khaki/green tone) I totally agree with Red Baron; something half way between the two would be the best. Not to open the "PC Can of worms" but I once read take a good PC10, add a buch of chocolate brown, and you've got PC12.
Cheers,
Lance

[kinnies]

Hi guys,
 Assuming that the Shuttleworth M1C is accurate, the Tamiya seems closer to me and should darken more with a nice coat of Future, as it does seem to have a reddish tint. Wouldn't that disappear if PC10 is mixed with chocolate brown? Either way I am going to muck around with various mixes to see what happens. I'm not a stickler for accuracy especially as the shades varied by batch.

Rowen's PC12 Tripe profile doesn't list a paint equivalent, but could it perhaps be based on the Shuttleworth M1C?

Appreciate all the advice,
cheers,
John

[Nigel Jackson]

Hi All

'Cans of worms' indeed Lance. I imagine that the Great War aviation modelers of the 22nd century will still be debating PC12.  Given the uncertainty and range of possibilities perhaps we have to  just go with what we feel to be right.

Like Albatros1234, I don't like the Misterkit PC12 take on things but I can't say it is definitely wrong. More that it's a colour which does not sit with my perception of PC12 and, probably more important, doesn't fit in well when alongside other RFC/RAF models already  in my collection. Perhaps that's the key; when I'm finishing, I tend not to weather aeroplanes or tone down colour for scale effect. In preferring stronger colours, I recognise that can only be a personal choice. So, does my SE5a look as though Mannock might have just landed it after another successful mission? No. But I feel comfortable with it as a representation of the great man's aircraft in the cabinet alongside the Brisfit and the Niueport 17.

I think that Lance might point in one interesting direction when he notes having once read that if you  take a good PC10 and add some chocolate brown you'll reach a PC12 - or at least one take on this. This mirrors my own approach, but I've yet to really feel things are right. I took a sheet of white plastic card and painted on (by hand) squares of colour that seemed not too far off PC10 and then washed over each square in a different brown (from reddish tinges to some altogether more earthy. In trying to replicate this on a model, I found that I had inadequate control over the washes and even light spraying left me with mixed feelings. That said I think it maybe a way ahead towards finding something with which I'm happy. Would I recommend it to others? Not without the greatest testing first and even then with great care.

There was one interesting side-product to the experimentation when using the washes chord-wise on wings. There was some pooling of colour which left certain areas more chocolate/red brown than others. It made me wonder whether in reality on the same flying surface PC12 is consistent in colour.

Best wishes
Nigel

[lcarroll]

This discussion led me to dig back into my Albatros Publications pile as I recalled some comments from Ray Rimell in the Sopwith Triplane Datafile (#22).
Take a peek at pages 31-32; some excellent info on the composition and application of PC12 and also Metheun cross references. I like the author's approach to such puzzles; theory or conjecture is clearly stated as such and objective data the same. Some food for thought there including the possible changes induced by fading and overcoating. Last, a quote from JM Bruce's Pup Datafile concerning use of PC12 on the Western Front. Lots of informed perspective from some pretty knowlegable Gents for certain.
It's like the old saying, "the only thing we are sure of is...................were not sure"! My PC10 (or PC12) is no more accurate then the next fellow's in this group. I prefer a "greener" PC10 and, if and when I ever do up a PC12 finish it will be reddish brown with the emphasis on brown, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so to speak. I believe it's a matter of getting as close as we can however we'll never be 100% decided.To me that's one of the great things about our past time/Hobby.
Cheers,
Lance

[coyotemagic]

I'm sorry to confuse things even further, but I had read somewhere that the Shuttleworth M1C was painted in AMAPDT (AMA Protective Dope Tropical) which was applied to many RAF aircraft sent to the Middle East in 1918.  AMAPDT is reddish brown with quite a bit more red than PC12.  Modelers often confuse the two since not many references even mention AMAPDT.  I sure wish Andy Jones (Sandy Spigot Colon) would chime in here.  He knows more about this stuff than anyone I know. When I mix up PC10, my colors of choice are Mr. Color Olive Drab with a little Mr. Color Red Brown added.  For PC12, I start with red brown and add a little OD.  These colors match up with restorations and repros that I've seen in various collections.  As Lance said, the only thing we're sure of is, we're not sure.  My belief is that it's best to go with what looks good to you.
As to the issue of Misterkit PC12, I've used it once and thought it was a bit too grey.  I'm not unhappy with the results, just not sure it's accurate.

Good luck sorting this out, John!
Cheers,
Bud

[kinnies]

Hi Bud,
That is one nifty Ninak. Love the ribbing effect on the underside. Is the white a decal or did you paint that? Either way it is super.
Cheers,
John

[coyotemagic]

Hi Bud,
That is one nifty Ninak. Love the ribbing effect on the underside. Is the white a decal or did you paint that? Either way it is super.
Cheers,
John

Thanks, John.  It's the Roden 1/48 Puma engined DH-4.  The white sunburst is painted.  I think that disrupts the PC12 enough that the greyness of it is less obvious.  Still, I wonder about the color's correctness.
Cheers,
Bud

[kinnies]

Hey Bud,
Shows what I know - thought it was a dh9 and 1/32 at that. Beautiful bird though.
Do you use eyelets and tube for rigging in 1/48?
Best,
John

[coyotemagic]

Yes, I do, John.  Maybe a tad over scale for 1/48, but I like using the technique.  It really strengthens the model.
Cheers,
Bud