1:32 Amodel Nieuport 16c

[Dutch522]

Thanks, Andreas, I got permission to quote both gentlemen tonight, so I’ll post some of what they wrote tomorrow.

I’m still thinking of these as “practice props”, since I’m trying to teach myself propeller anatomy—how they’re made and what their actual shape is. It turns out that, again, it’s somewhat different than I’ve always thought. I’m slowly making progress, though, tonight’s effort is the most accurate yet in terms of being recognizable as a Levasseur. I still need to really study the hub area, that sort of got away from me on this one.





All best,

Dave V.

[RAGIII]

Wow Dave! Your practice is paying dividends already! Once stained your results will be awesome! By the way you are already far and away from where I would have called it good enough 
RAGIII

[kensar]

Thanks for sharing all that info on French props.  Your prop experiments are very interesting.

[FAf]

Looking good!
/Fredrik

[Dutch522]

No progress on the props, I spent last night starting a 3-view drawing to begin the long process of figuring out the color scheme, sorting through forty years of sometimes conflicting info. But again, as with the props, I was lucky to gain the support of another extremely knowledgable French source so I have great hopes for that sub-project.

Back to the props, this is in part what Pierre-Michel wrote on the propeller forum:

"Sorry, but if you think "painted" as using paint to cover the prop, there is no airworthy French prop "painted" between 1912 and 1920.

I don't know about prop before 1912, but after:

- until 1915, airworthy props (that is, stamped with EMA then SFA by a military controler) were covered with a transparent varnish, showing the wood grain,

- from an exact date I don't know in 1915, all the airworthy props (that is showing the SFA (or A navy stamp)) were covered with a shellac varnish containing ferrous oxyde dye. Those props are red to red-brown and generally the wood grain is no more visible...

Levasseur used a relatively dark red-brown."

Many thanks to both Pierre-Michel and David, the owner of the forum, who at one point owned this section of a Levasseur propeller with the decal, showing the shellac finish as being just that, semi-transparent deep red-brown.


(photo reposted by permission of David Bahnson)

Onward and upward,

Dave V.

[Tim Mixon]

Very informative Davos!  Thank you.  Wonderful work on your carved props as well.

[Dutch522]

Thanks, Tim, the historical detective work is half the fun as far as I’m concerned!

D.V.

[Rookie]

Thank you for all this very interesting information about French propellers Dave.

And you are a fast learner when it comes to Carving!

Willem

[Dutch522]

Hallo en bedankt, Willem! My family name is Vosburgh, and we were originally from the Netherlands... 370 years ago, anyway :-)

No carving last night, but I did begin to play with finishes, using a copal varnish with Burnt Sienna oil paint mixed in—a color made from synthetic iron oxide, the same pigment mixed with the shellac that Pierre-Michel was talking about on the propeller forum:



The color is way too saturated at this point, but I'll tone it down with some green and try to get it to match the Levasseur dark red-brown in subsequent attempts.

Cheers,

Dave V.

[RAGIII]

Nice color achieved with the Burnt Sienna. Are you going with that or will you be trying Burnt Umber, or even a burnt sienna / Burnt umber mix 
RAGIII

[Dutch522]

Rick

Yeah, I'll knock it down with something like that, I need to lower the chroma & value, and increase the opacity all at the same time... but fortunately I have a growing collection of rejected props to test out finishes on (which was all part of my evil plan, actually). I gotta admit, though, I love that brilliant color, even though it's nothing like what I'll ultimately end up using!

D.V.

[Dutch522]

Imitation Levasseur tinted shellac mix No. 2. Again, this is one coat of a copal varnish painting medium, which dries to a very hard finish, tinted with red-orange Burnt Sienna oil paint mixed with a brush-tip of its complement (blue-green Viridian, in this case) to drop the hue back towards brown. Too far, I think, I need to bring the red back up, which I can do by glazing over it after it dries.



It's also too transparent at this point, but I'll be doing multiple coats, so there's a certain amount of leeway for adjusting the color, opacity, and gloss... if any of you have ever done woodworking and have experience working with shellac finishes, you know that you cut the first couple of coats with alcohol to allow it to "bite" into the woodgrain, then apply as many more coats as you need to achieve the desired finish, scuffing it off between coats with fine sandpaper or steel wool. I'm assuming that's the way the real props were done as well.



Dave V.

[pepperman42]

I learned a few things here!! Great prop research and Rick showed me how to use the postimage site you use. I think I actually understand it! I have ordered from PM and have received the pamphlet you mention. Something got lost in the translation for the little character......

Steve

[Dutch522]

Steve, yes, I'm loving all this information. I've known historians and researchers who jealously guard their findings, and live in fear of somebody "stealing their work"... but fortunately for us most of the folks in the field of aviation history--like Pierre-Michel and Dave Bahnson--are eager to share the things they've learned.

Long may they run.

D.V.

[Rookie]

Hallo en bedankt, Willem! My family name is Vosburgh, and we were originally from the Netherlands... 370 years ago, anyway :-)

Graag gedaan Dave 

Zo te zien houden jullie na 370 jaar de Nederlandse taal nog steeds levend!

Groet,
Willem