forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
Modelers Lounge => The World of Scale Models => Topic started by: Gisbod on November 14, 2018, 11:17:58 PM
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Hello All,
Long time since I did a build log. I was tempted by all sorts of off piste kits at Telford. Random, but it’s good to chop and change I think? I ended up getting 5 kits - all nothing like I’d normally buy!
Hope it’s ok to post here as not WW1 (but 2 wings & rigging!).. please change sections if required Dave?
Sooo... I don’t build 1/72, but somehow this got me tempted:
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5WtZrSD/41090-F72-CB8-B-410-F-B2-ED-7-B6-FD9-E5-D226.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Zvxj2c9K)
I love this colour scheme (can you believe it’s from 1941?!)
(https://i.postimg.cc/WzDC1cLT/25226510-EF39-4241-9-D17-EA79-A141-BAEE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V08DKTkV)
Period pics show it to be multi toned - not unlike a bare metal finish with varying panel toning (it was, of course, doped aluminium paint):
(https://i.postimg.cc/QtZJTLTj/D3-BDE4-D3-6588-43-F2-A937-924-DE9-B58-FCE.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGLt7Bg5)
The kit is, I believe, an old Azur boxing, so this is a reissue with new decals (which seem very nice), a resin fret and engine and a (really) beautiful PE fret for detail parts, the torpedo rack and seat belts etc.
The plastic parts are a bit on the ‘limited run’ side - quite a lot of flash, detail is a little indistinct and no locating pins, but that said, it has potential. Just will be a bit of a challenge, but I feel quite enthusiastic so hopefully that will be enough!
Initial thoughts are to rig it with monofilament pulled taught through holes drilled through the wings. The struts look flimsy and no locating holes so I might have to address that... any ideas welcome here.
Thanks
Guy
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Now that looks interesting. I did not know that this aircraft was available in kit form - and in the Correct Scale too!!
Please keep us posted on progress and the finished result.
Stephen.
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Neither my scale nor my period but that actually is looking like an interesting airplane. I built some SH- kits and I can say that I enjoyed every one of them. I wish you the same experiences with that one here!
Best regards
Andreas
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Thanks Andreas & Stephen,
My only experience with Special Hobby was an Airspeed Oxford a few years back - but that was a pig!
This one isn’t perfect, I’ve just joined the fuselage up and it doesn’t quite match, but nothing a bit of sanding won’t sort out. I’ve already had one cock up - the fuselage has 3 glazing ports and 2 of them have pinged into the recesses of my work bench and I can’t find them :( think I might try and glaze them with a glazing liquid? Haven’t tried that before - any suggestions on what to use?
That said, it’s beginning to look like a Vildebeest already! The nice thing about 1/72 is it goes together really fast. Enjoying myself so far.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jS8QqgKS/173-A769-A-A2-F8-4-E0-E-82-F2-1-EC0377-AEF44.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SnMzDGJB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0y50sgT4/A1237683-A856-4-B73-947-F-192-FADD98-E19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGgkNF43)
Guy
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The PVA glazing trick works OK, I would practice on sheet plastic with the aperture cut out to get a feel for how it works.
Nice clean work btw.
Ryan
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Guy,
This Vildebeest promises to be a outstanding build my friend. She's not prettiest bird around but interest none the less. She reminds me of the aircraft in "The Shape of Things to Come".
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Great start Guy, enjoy what you have done with this little gem.
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Thanks chaps!
Ryan, I’ve ordered some ‘Glue n’ Glaze’ and I’ve taken the one window I had out. Will try and glaze the 3 openings - but good tip to practice first - will do.
Juan.. it is a bit of a gem actually. At least it could be in the right hands!
So, after one afternoon modelling I’ve got it to this stage:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Px4ZFsYt/1-E20-DC76-1828-4-E1-B-897-C-936-CCB24-A9-I AA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0Mzbb4V3)
(https://i.postimg.cc/x8pmnv6h/98359-A18-0302-46-EE-9-FD0-33-A470544-F1-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfRHYQ2m)
The tailplane struts are photo etch in the kit so looked a bit too flat. Replaced with plastic strip:
(https://i.postimg.cc/NFjX3JkR/19-D68094-B30-B-42-B7-B9-F3-9-A77-E030-CA92.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMgXRY4G)
As the kit is going to be delicate and difficult to rig/ fix wings and struts after painting, I’m toying with the idea of basically completing it rigged n’ all before painting. Otherwise I know I’m going to balls it up by getting glue everywhere!
Rigging - I’m thinking of drilling holes (not all the way through) on the top wing - gluing in the monofilament then, when the top wing is on - pulling it through holes (all the way through) on the bottom wing.
Any reasons why that wouldn’t work?
Thanks
Guy
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"Rigging - I’m thinking of drilling holes (not all the way through) on the top wing - gluing in the monofilament then, when the top wing is on - pulling it through holes (all the way through) on the bottom wing.
Any reasons why that wouldn’t work?"
Guy I have seen it done the exact opposite, but I don't know why your way wouldn't work. Perhaps one reason is you can leave the top wing unpainted until the pull through and putty work is complete.
Ryan
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Also Guy, I don,t think your idea is all that bad about rigging then painting, my only concern would be the paint build up on the lines?
Ryan
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This is an interesting, rare bird. Nice start, and waiting for next updates.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Thanks :)
Yep, I chickened out Ryan and I’ve ended up painting her before the top wing addition. Hopefully I’ll get it on without a trauma!
Just an initial coat of Alclad high speed silver which is over shiny, but more stages to come yet.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rmK11gww/834-E4-BEE-C5-B0-4352-851-A-87-CCC1645-E76.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vgwxMrnJ)
Guy
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This is quick! You manage to assemble a whole aeroplane in the time it takes me to make 1/2 a wing!
Stephen.
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Thanks :)
Yep, I chickened out Ryan and I’ve ended up painting her before the top wing addition. Hopefully I’ll get it on without a trauma!
Just an initial coat of Alclad high speed silver which is over shiny, but more stages to come yet.
You will get it sorted out, looks great sir.
Ryan
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Sooo..
I did have the predicted trauma! I don’t know what it is, but I really struggle getting top wings on. I glued the centre struts in first, let them set, glued the top wing on, all good so far. Then realised the outer struts were about 3mm short! May have been me, not sure, anyway decided to replace them with brass rod first two went on fine, stood back to check the alignment and the whole thing spontaneously exploded! Broken centre struts. I could try again but some over spill from superglue here and there... I think it’s using superglue - it seems very brittle.
I think I’m going to get another one and start again. The kit could be really nice and I was enjoying it very much. I reckon it will be ok if I go back to my original idea of making it entirely before painting and use my standard liquid cement. But I think I’ll rig it after? Not sure yet. I think Ryan was right and I’d get too much paint build up on the monofilament.
I’d love to know how other people cope with this. I don’t have a jig - although I did get one but it was really poor quality and just fell apart. Any suggestions or tips most welcome!
Onwards and upwards...
Guy
Ps they’ll probably be a bit of a pause here but hopefully I will restore the build log shortly!
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Bummer.
Jigs can be very simple.
Check the WNW website in the Gotha info there is an easy jig made from a box.
Sounds like you omitted the test fit stage , the center struts could have been shortened maybe. A jig holding things really helps.
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Sorry to hear about your issues Guy, she was coming out quite nicely.
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Jigs can be very simple - just look at some of my build logs. Provided that they are stable they can be assembled quickly and cheaply. I use paint pots to keep the wings aligned while drying out. I also suggest putting the outer struts on first - the cabanes are then not so difficult to adjust and fit.
Stephen.
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Thanks guys,
Yep, it seems such a basic part of modelling and I really should be better at it!
Will look at your suggestions with interest.
Guy
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Guy,
I'm sorry to hear that the Modelling Gremlins have made it all the way from my bench to yours in the past several days! I'd say between Steve, Stephen, and yourself the solution is as stated; you need a jig for projects like this! If nothing else it would free up your (we only get two after all......) hands to measure and adjust the several dimensions you are dealing with. The stagger, spacing, and lateral alignment of the main and center cabane struts and achieving wing alignment top to bottom is complicated and you need all the help you can get when dealing with unsecured "free floating" strut mounts. With a Wingnut Wings Kit as an example the strut to structure fitting is beautifully engineered and usually careful assembly allows all the struts to be pre-placed and the upper wing more or less just pops on. With your Vildebeest you have none of those luxuries.
I hope I'm not coming off as "Mister know it all" here but I'd say a jig should be in the revised plan, and possibly a simple version as suggested would suffice. I have two of the things, the old Aeroclub one and a newer Vertigo Jig and I rely on them a lot. I also use Stephen's "simple is better" approach to the jig requirement when it suffices. As you can see in many of my "true confessions" here I need all the help I can get as I'm very adept at shooting myself in the foot as is.
I hope this helps or at least provides food for thought. I'll be watching your recovery from this little setback with great hopes!
Cheers,
Lance
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Thanks Lance,
You’re absolutely right. I’m only used to Wingnuts quality and other kits need a little more care. The centre struts were a lot too long for a start.
I did get a vertigo jig (the clear plastic one?) but I was very disappointed with it and it simply fell apart. So now I don’t have a jig and there seems to be very little on the market that I can find (nothing at all in the UK?).
I’m determined to get over this hurdle though!
Guy
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What did you glue the vertigo jig together with?
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Epoxy... So it should have been ok
Guy
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Most likely not.
As the epoxy wont melt the plastic to 'weld' it together.
Weld-On 3 is the best for the acrylic Vertigo jig.
Best of luck.
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I’ve gone for the JH models no.4802 large biplane jig. Basically it’s the only one that’s available other than the Vertigo and I had a nightmare getting that last time. I had to threaten a PayPal dispute to get it eventually.
Hopefully it will be an asset! I can’t do any worse anyway...
Thanks for the input, very helpful.
Guy
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Sad to hear of your bad luck with this kit. I keep my fingers crossed for the next approach. I cannot add anything to the hints that are already given, but pinning the Struts with wire. I use 0.5 mm wire and drill bits and it works fine especially for test fitting an upper wing.
Goid luck and best regards
Andreas
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Thanks Andreas,
I would do that on a larger model, but in 1/72 the struts are so thin I can’t see how that’s possible.. I guess I could replace the struts with brass rod and make a hole in the wing to take the whole thing, but I’d lose any tapering.
Guy
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Guy I might add that you could deepen the holes on the long struts to allow the wing to slide down them until it makes contact wit the shorter ones. even if they slightly poke through the top of the wing you could set and fix with putty.
Ryan
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Hi Guy,
CA adhesive do suffer from the 'ping effect'.
Once set it does tend to form a brittle joint so if the part gets knocked, 'ping', off it goes to carpet monster!!
I use 'Flexy 5' CA adhesive. They have a range for different applications - thick, thin, resin etc.
Their adhesive provides a better more secure joint, which can take a knock without the part breaking away,
Mike
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Thanks Mike,
Will look at that.
Guy
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I would do that on a larger model, but in 1/72 the struts are so thin I can’t see how that’s possible.. I guess I could replace the struts with brass rod and make a hole in the wing to take the whole thing, but I’d lose any tapering.
Guy, you can try to use:
- 0,2mm or 0,3mm nickel silver and a bigger micro brass tube, may be 0,5 0,6mm or 0,7mm (depends how big the struts should be)
- cut the tube to the length of the strut
- put the 0,2mm into the tube and squeeze the tube near to flat (minimum thickness is then 0,4mm)
- if you cut the wire near to the end of the struts -> pins to secure the struts
- now drill small holes (found 0,2x micro drills on ebay), glue the pins with CA in and you have a robust construction, where you can adjust the struts even after
Have done that here (wire was 0,4mm brass), also a Special Hobby kit, in 1/48:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wwfa3frjfb4/VuP6-ai1yWI/AAAAAAAAGfY/jiD1fBfEVgYYReEWzN9_bLV39NF_PH36wCCo/s800-Ic42/montage09.jpg)
I hope my explanation is good enough ::)
Cheers,
Frank
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That’s amazing Frank!
If you can post me a set for the Wildebeest that would be great ;D
Will definitely have a play with this..
Guy
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Hi Guy,
As Frank says, this is a good way to create stronger struts.
I did this for all of the struts on my Fokker E.V and SPAD X.III (1:32 scale) and used 'Albion Alloy's' micro-tubes and rod.
I also used their 'Strutter' tool, which is basically a pair of hardened vice jaws with two steel guide pins. The rod is inserted into the tube across the two pins then when the vice is tightened, the tube is wrapped around the rod to form the strut. Then I soft solder inside the tube for additional strength.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o10w7aVmIk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o10w7aVmIk)
Mike
(http://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/FOKKER-D.VIII-RAZOR/E.Vshots/EV4.jpg)
(http://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/SPAD13/SPAD2.jpg)
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Thanks Mike,
Things are beginning to appear clearer... I can see where I was going wrong at least.
Guy
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My Jig arrived today...
I like it and can see it’s going to be useful, but not without a few issues:
Poor instructions, numbering of parts don’t all match.
Missing a bolt and 2 nuts
The wood is basically balsa, very fragile and I can’t see it lasting with the constant adjustments required.
The measurement scales are missing on the 2 main uprights.
I know it’s a cottage industry, and I appreciate that they make it but it still cost me £31 with postage (from www.modellingtools.co.uk).
That said, it’s perfect, just wish it was more robust.
Here’s the Vildebeest in situ (the old one - I ordered another). To be honest it’s perfectly savable, but I think I could do a better job so I don’t mind making another...
(https://i.postimg.cc/9M2jkbNW/C4-B82291-6-E20-495-C-9345-47-CBA8-DC82-B2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/67MS2rXS)
Guy
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The jig looks impressive...as does the Model!
RAGIII
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Hi Guy,
I have that jig and although it's OK I found it not as versatile as the 'Kronos Third Hand' I subsequently purchased.
The main problem I found is access for rigging once the model is on the jig.
The third hand is of Metal construction and very sturdy and stable, plus the model can be orientated in any position, which is great for rigging.
It's held on the metal base plate by a very strong and switchable magnet.
The support framework is fully adjustable and the one hand screw locks the assembly, which is fully articulated.
As the model (of any scale) is held in position by the four lockable rubber tipped rods clamping the bottom wing, accessibility for rigging is unrestricted and of course you are able to use both hands.
I'm not sure if this is still available though.
Here's link to a review on YouTube,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGDkXSOsvQ
Mike
(http://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/ODDS/thirdhand.jpg)
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Thanks Mike,
That certainly looks substantial! I’ll see how I go with the JH jig. Primarily, I just want it to set the top wing so it should fulfill that function..
Guy
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Vildebeest build #2
Ok started the next one. I have to say it’s very nice, having already built one, to start again with a clear idea of what works and what doesn’t.
I’ve decided to glue it all in situ and paint afterwards. It creates a better bond without the paint and ensures it won’t be awash with glue marks on the finished cockpit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HLXykD8m/673-DD2-CE-D3-FD-4-A7-B-A576-FB52-C6-EB82-A8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f3WL8Pvq)
I’ve also decided to model the slats out - as all pictures seem to show this with aircraft on the ground. I cut out the existing section of the wing and have used plastic card to re model the section. The plan is to make the slats out of plastic sheet bent to an aerofoil shape.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C10fZPbq/15-A231-E2-6414-4-FCA-A0-C2-81287684-C16-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jW8jmhgx)
Fingers crossed this time! ::)
Guy
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Evening,
Little further on. I’d thought I’d show the photo etch fret. Really top quality and pre painted seat belts:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qt1pxjqg/04-F98-C1-E-6-C44-49-C7-A786-5968772-E9112.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbDLxZ63)
I’ve finished the interior and closed up the fuselage. I’ve kept it really simple as you can’t see a lot once closed. But, in this scale I think it looks better without the usual washes etc. Just looks neater somehow.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kgYNT14S/23-FA6-D18-137-F-40-F6-9242-96-FC7-D9-A1147.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FYcJRx0F)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dwwddk2F/4430-C102-4-D96-4286-8153-52-E95-FE64313.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QHvThz9n)
Guy
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Glad to see you back on it Guy, you can beat it...it's not smarter than you!
Ryan
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Thanks Ryan,
That’s exacrly my attitude - I will beat it!
Tried out Frank’s strut replacement method on the tailplane, and it worked a treat! I’ve also separated the rudder and elevator. I’ll pin those on at the end.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RVJwt3N1/5-B17-CD44-C9-BD-49-CA-BF3-C-88-C6-B48-D6-F7-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mZKkxvn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/T24rhjYY/3-EA2-C1-F8-CCE2-4-D7-E-924-E-EFCA9-CB5-DE01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w3DtGmmS)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3J0cnCLd/B26-AF866-80-A2-4-A4-B-829-A-4-D3-D7-A5-DB459.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CzY7KDpg)
Guy
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Morning,
Quite a bit further on. I’ve fixed the lower wing and had it up on the jig to fix the struts. I seriously don’t know how I coped without a jig before ::). Very useful, particularly as the wings are totally square. Not sure how it would cope with a stagger. That said, I’ve yet to fix the tip wing, think I’ll do that after full painting & decalling.
So here she is so far:
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkywCSdM/D8012-CC2-DD7-B-4-CDC-895-F-6271-AF28-A87-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5xZhj8f)
I think I’ll fix all the fiddly bits of photo etch before painting to try and eliminate glue splodges!
Thanks for looking,
Guy
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Ps the kit centre struts are massively out. Way too long. I can’t see how they could get it so wrong!
G
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Back at deaths door!
At least you recover well!
A tool like this , easily fabbed from a small divider , helped me with measuring during strut fab and rigging:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cHP69H/IMG-3209.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kkwxGx)
Good luck taming the wild beast.
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Guy, this is great news, that my method works for you also in that small scale.
The license fee will be a beer, if we meet personally one day ;D
Cheers,
Frank
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Thanks chaps,
Your advice is greatly appreciated. Without the strut option I think I would have given up by now!
Little more done. I’ve finished the slats and I’m actually pleased with the finished result for once!
I copied this picture loosely...
(https://i.postimg.cc/XqxgCCsc/55-E1-A381-8-A33-4-F9-E-A246-9-F90-A63-F0084.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4H7tCmkm)
To end up with this...
(https://i.postimg.cc/zDk7Msqb/7-A6-E3-CF2-6-F34-42-C1-84-CA-23-C963-DA908-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NL5R2P9B)
And now all ready for some paint (I think). First coat of what I hope looks like painted aluminium dope...
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNNdpgKZ/7941-DB1-C-1-C9-D-426-E-A0-AB-046343400801.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtkHTcHD)
Came out a little rough for some reason, so a bit of a rub down required.
Guy
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Very nice turnaround on this Build Guy. I am especially impressed with those LE Slats, great touch to add and very impressive construction. I suspect you are already getting a lot more out of this Kit then it promises!
Cheers,
Lance
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Very nicee build, Guy. The wings with their slats look terrific.
Bye,
Manni
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Thanks Lance & Manni,
I think I’ve finished the painting and ‘just’ the top wing to go on and rigging. So I’m at that sensitive point in the build!
Just a quick update...
(https://i.postimg.cc/KzTvbpzp/9-C78535-E-D0-EE-4-EC3-9406-4-C5-F2-EE1-F494.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDzjHT11)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SK3Nwbyz/98-BDE9-F5-8-D90-4-CEA-82-A8-5636400-B0413.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06Gsw3K8)
Last minute decision to change the markings! Singapore 1937
Guy
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Looking smashing Guy, I must get back into some 72nd work.
Ryan
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I hope you're still working on this Guy, there aren't enough Vildies built online and yours is a beautiful example.
As some inspiration, here's a couple of photos of a Vincent - almost-twin brother to the Vildebeest and the only example of either intact anywhere - being restored by a guy I know:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4288/35515735202_483240eb0b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/W7pqJ7)84301987-29CF-4EFC-8EF4-1DDB9A87CD98_zpsx6ukpwda (https://flic.kr/p/W7pqJ7) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/83399146@N05/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4080/34875668923_0110885e3e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V8QVjB)348EBE19-38CE-4262-B5C6-9E4BFE1F6D52_zpsxitcvkad (https://flic.kr/p/V8QVjB) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/83399146@N05/), on Flickr
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Ah thanks Zac,
It was finished some time ago! Over in completed models somewhere....
Guy