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The WW1 modelers' reference library => Markings and Camouflage => Topic started by: xan on October 18, 2018, 05:56:19 AM

Title: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: xan on October 18, 2018, 05:56:19 AM
Here is an research work about french 5 colours camouflage in 1918 in the french WWI models forum
It is obviusly written i french but references in Gunze are understandable.
Use google traduction too.
Hope it can be helpfull!
http://1914.forumactif.com/t231-camouflage-5-tons-francais-1918 (http://1914.forumactif.com/t231-camouflage-5-tons-francais-1918)

Xan
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: coyotemagic on October 18, 2018, 08:25:04 AM
This is fantastic, Xan!  Thank you for posting.  I have a SPAD XIII on the bench.  Been sitting on the corner for 6 years.  Maybe  now I'll finish it.  :-[
I was wondering, what paints would you recommend for the 2 color camouflage on the Copper State early Nieuport 17?
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: Juan on October 18, 2018, 08:54:48 AM
Thanks for the reference Xan, will be very useful in the future.
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: xan on October 18, 2018, 10:32:01 PM
what paints would you recommend for the 2 color camouflage on the Copper State early Nieuport 17?
Waow! an anglo saxon modeler talking about two and not four colour camouflage , I love you Bud!!!

for the green I used 50% Gunze H340 field green FS and 50% Gunze H75 dark sea grey
for the brown H   Chocolate brown

(https://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2016/02/18//16021803510818634313984751.jpg)

Xan
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: coyotemagic on October 19, 2018, 03:14:48 AM
Thanks, Xan!  Love you, too.  I'm totally on board with the 2 tone theory.  BUT, there are a few, not many, photos of SOME Nieuport 11's in 3 or 4 color camo.  Mostly in American hands.  But I agree with you on all the others.  After all, you are French!
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: gbrivio on October 19, 2018, 03:50:48 AM
Great reference, thank you for sharing.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: xan on October 19, 2018, 06:44:13 AM
there are a few, not many, photos of SOME Nieuport 11's in 3 or 4 color camo.  Mostly in American hands.
I agree with you, they have been 3 or maybe 4 colors plane (chapman description), but I do think it was not the standart paint...

Xan
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: Jeff K on October 24, 2018, 02:19:06 AM
regarding the multicolor Nieups...

if they're in American hands, they are by definition late-war. and stick and tissue kites don't have an amazing shelf life if not maintained...

therefore i (speculatively, but i hope rationally) conclude they were re-covered and repainted.
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: xan on October 24, 2018, 04:04:15 PM
if they're in American hands, they are by definition late-war.
N124 Lafayette squadron american volonteers group we are talking about started fighting in 1916
Xan
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: RAGIII on October 25, 2018, 06:26:16 AM
Thanks for sharing although my High School French Leaves me clueless as to most of the content  :o I do tend to agree about the 2 color. As for the Lafayette birds they did some serious overpainting. Was it Chapman that had his Nieuport painted grey?
RAGIII
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: xan on October 25, 2018, 05:07:11 PM
Yes but Chapmann says white, and it was , same as other few one like nungesser or Tarascon planes...
they tried new dope in white light blue and silver

XXan
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: xan on October 25, 2018, 05:08:50 PM
Yes but Chapmann says white, and it was , same as other few one like nungesser or Tarascon planes...
they tried new dope in white light blue and silver

to undestand better the text use google translator, just put the adress in the side to translate and it will traduce all the page...

Xan
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: Jeff K on November 01, 2018, 03:46:32 PM
if they're in American hands, they are by definition late-war.
N124 Lafayette squadron american volonteers group we are talking about started fighting in 1916
Xan

True. But that's a French squadron with American pilots, so French rules.
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: xan on November 01, 2018, 06:08:17 PM
Anyway when US army get in war the 1916 two colours camouflage was no more used, and americain Ni-28 had the 5 colour camouflage I talk in the begining of the topic...
Xan
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on December 11, 2019, 07:45:17 AM
Does anyone know what Tamiya or VJ paints could be used as subsitutes?
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: acewwi on December 12, 2019, 12:30:21 AM
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/productdetail?productid=3085&cat=4
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: Rigger on June 16, 2020, 10:23:21 PM
Updated.  I airbrushed color samples of all of the Vallejo Model Color line and matched them to Methuen codes.  The corresponding matches have been added to the French Five Color below.  I did mix up some colors I especially wanted to test and included the mixes as well.  Two colors that aren't yet perfect matches are 3F5 and 3E5.  The parenthetical code denotes the actual color of the mix.  Please see the attached image of color tests on wings from my parts box.

All the Tamiya colors were matched to Methuen the same way as the Vallejo; by physically painting plastic that had been primed with Tamiya fine grey primer or a color match mix of Stylenrez primer of 1 part grey to 3 parts white.

Stuart


Methuen codes from Windsock Datafiles for French five color camouflage:

Black - 70.950 Black

Beige
4C4
4C5 - 70.882 Middlestone
4D6 - 70.978 Dark Yellow
4E6
5D4
5D5 - 70.824 German Camouflage Orange Ochre
5D6
5E6 - 70.921 English Uniform

Light Green
3C5
3E5 (3E4) - 70.881 Yellow Green
4D4
4D5
4D6 - 70.978 Dark Yellow
30D4
30D5
30D6
30E4 - 70.857 Golden Olive  2 parts : 70.886 Green Grey 3 parts
30E5 - 70.857 Golden Olive 1 part : 70.886 Green Grey 1 part
30E6

Dark Green
3F3
3F5 (3F4) - 70.881 Yellow Green 3 parts : 70.887 US Olive Drab 2 parts
3F6
29F3 - 70.893 US Dark Green
29F4 - 70.888 Olive Grey
29F5 - 70.975 3 parts : 70.872 2 parts
29F6

Chestnut Brown
5E3 - 70.988
5E4 - 70.880
6F5 - 70.826
6F6 - 70.872
6F7
7F5
7F6
7F7

Here are the colors from the Wingnut Wings Salmson 2A2.

Color                 Tamiya              Methuen
CDL                   XF57                  5C3
Beige                 XF59                  5D5
Light Green        XF58:XF3          29E5
Dark Green        XF65                 28F6
Chestnut Brown  XF68                  8F5
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: RAGIII on June 17, 2020, 07:27:31 AM
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/productdetail?productid=3085&cat=4

The wnw Salmson is indeed an excellent reference for the 5 color in Tamiya paints! JMHO
RAGIII
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: andonio64 on June 17, 2020, 02:46:13 PM
Hi friends,
I used for my Br.XIV (and will use for any further French model) the Mr.Kit paints:
Chestnut Brown      Misterkit MKFR05 Chestnut Brown
Beige         Misterkit MKFR10 Beige
Dark Green      Misterkit MKFR11 Dark Green
Light Green      Misterkit MKFR12 Light Green
Ecru            Misterkit MKFR03 Light Yellow (undersides)

I also used their "Salamander Black" (don't remember the number). I love the finish they have.

As far as I know they are the result of a very accurate research and they are already made, don't need mixing.

Ciao

Antonio
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: rolanddvi on June 23, 2020, 11:18:19 AM
Antonio,

Where do you get your Mr. Kit paints from?

Thanks,
Mike
Title: Re: French 5 colours camouflage 1918
Post by: andonio64 on June 23, 2020, 05:54:36 PM
I buy colors directly from the producer: here
https://www.misterkit.com/shop/complex/category/20080521/brand/16992586/
The website is italian but has the English version

Hope it helps

Antonio