forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: smperry on September 01, 2018, 06:38:10 AM
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I received an order from Bob's Buckles the other day. Very prompt and extremely courteous service as I'm sure y'all already know.
I also finally got some mono line of the correct diameter and thought I would try my hand at some rigging fittings. Took an hour, but I was able to make an attachment out of a twisted eye and a brass sleeve. Darn proud of it too. I had to use Maxima 1 Lb test line as the 2 Lb test, which is closer to the specified diameter, would not fit twice through the brass (0.5 mm x 1.5mm). Nor could I get a twisted eye tail to insert into the tubing. I am guessing these little tubes need drilling out to take the tail of a twisted eye or 2 strands of mono.
I also have lengths of 0.5 mm brass tube from which I cut about an inch and tried to drill it out. No joy there, but on the up side, I didn't break a bit. I can see right off that a high quality pin vise is a must. I will order one when I order some bulk bits. The other thing, besides my eyesight, which I found wanting is really good tweezers. Any recommendations as to type and source?
Any tips and advice would be really welcome as I am on the fine line of just not seeing well enough to do this
sp
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sp,
I've used Maxima Chameleon 2 lb. test(0.12 mm) with Bob's Buckles for years and find no problems getting through the tubes twice using two pairs of tweezers. The trick is to "sharpen" the end of the line by trimming it at about a 45 degree angle with a blade on a work surface or, better, use a pair of cutters (I find the Xuron Photo Etch cutters available at most hobby sources best) Same with the eyelets, a clean sharp end on the "Tail" works great. As for tweezers I use the common ones, I believe they came from the Squadron Shop Catalogue possibly they were by Excel.
My eyesight has not been treated well by time either; without the aid of an Optivisor over my eye glasses I'm useless! I still am blessed with the above normal distance vision which was a blessing in my flying days but inside 6 feet I'm probably legally blind!
I'd recommend you try the 2 lb. line with a sharpened end and I'm betting it'll "work a treat" as Bob would put it!
Cheers,
Lance
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SP,
Just to give you some helpful advice.
The 2lb maxima line does pass through the tube twice. There are many on here who can confirm this. You may need to clean the inside of the tube with a 0.3mm drill bit to clean away any swarf left over from the cutting process. This should also help when inserting the shaft of the eyelet into the tube.
Working with eyelets and tube can be fiddly, but with patience you will become more adept over time. Use of an optivisor or any decent head magnifier will greatly improve your success rate.
Please feel free to ask anymore questions.
Cheers,
Bob ;)
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sp,
I've used Maxima Chameleon 2 lb. test(0.12 mm) with Bob's Buckles for years and find no problems getting through the tubes twice using two pairs of tweezers. The trick is to "sharpen" the end of the line by trimming it at about a 45 degree angle with a blade on a work surface.
Cheers,
Lance
Thanks Lance!
I forgot to mention this important fact :o
Yes, taper the end of the line with snips, decal scissors or scalpel blade. A pointy end always finds it's mark ;D
Good luck!
Always here to help.
Cheers,
Bob ;)
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Thanks for the great products Bob. I couldn't be happier with them.
Here is a photo of my first test fitting. I will give the eyelet through the tube a try later when the shop cools off a bit.
sp
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Great stuff!
You will be a rigging champ in no time.
It just comes down to practice and not beating yourself up. You will get there!
Cheers,
vB ;)
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OK y'all, I've been diligent in practicing getting 2 lb Maxima chameleon line to go back through a 3 mm Bob's buckles tube. I can't get it to work. I have gotten a much brighter light over the bench, better glasses, (3.0 readers + Optivisor vs. bifocals and Optivisor), better tweezers and have taken great care cutting the line at an angle with a brand new #11 blade. All of this has helped, but not enough.
I can get the line through once just fine. Best I seem able to accomplish after that is getting the line started back through, but it stops and the line I am attempting to push through kinks and that's it. Same result on several pieces of tube no matter how close I grip the end of the line with the tweezers. Smallest bit I have is a #80 which converts to 0.3429 mm. I can't seem to get that started drilling out the tube. I am about to place an order for 0.2, 0.3 and 0.4 mm bits and a good quality pin vice.
Only other thing I can think of is lubricating the tip of the line before attempting to run it back through the tube. Bob, can you or any of the others here who have mastered this tell me what I am doing incorrectly? This has become a bit of an issue with me as not only is it mastering a new modeling technique, it is also bit of middle finger waving at the aging process as well. Any further advice will be most appreciated.
TIA
sp
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sp,
You've got me baffled at this point. I can think of a couple of points that may have eluded you, forgive me if I'm re-stating the obvious:
-I often twist the tube to keep the already inserted line against one side of the tube and then insert the second run on the more open side:
- I apply the tweezers very close to the end, about 1/8 to 3/16 inch from the sharpened end; (I'd say 1/4 inch is max.)
- I wiggle the end a bit if it's being stubborn while still pushing the line; and
- Once it's in, if it won't continue, I slide the tube back over the two lines as opposed to trying to push the second line through.
All of the above is done with tweezers in each hand and I work on a piece of white paper to enhance the visual picture. I hope something here is of help.
Cheers,
Lance
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Thanks Lance
I have hit every point you made except the following: " I slide the tube back over the two lines as opposed to trying to push the second line through." I do have depth perception issues which makes it difficult for me to get the line started into the tube, but once it is in, it seems to jam up. I will try gripping both lines and pushing the tube over both.
One other point just occurred to me. Just how big a loop does one need to make? I know the tutorial recommends plenty of extra line to make it easier to manipulate the tube and line away from the model structure. Maybe I am looping back too tightly on my tests which puts tension through the mono as it passes through the tube. I will try it with a crazy big loop to make sure there is minimal tension on the line already through the tube.
Thanks again for your advice
sp
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I just can't get it to work with 2 lb line. I guess I will have to settle for using 1 lb line with which I can do everything shown in the tutorial. Perhaps painting the 1 lb line a brighter metallic shade will compensate for the smaller size.
A much larger loop of line took some tension off the line already through the tube, but that still didn't get the second line through. I tried cutting the line at an angle on different surfaces to see if that would give me a better pointy end to thread through the tube. Line cut on a hard steel surface was no better than line cut on paper over cutting mat.
This is highly frustrating since I long ago mastered rigging with stretched sprue.
sp
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SP,
Grab hold of some 0.25 and .3mm drill bits for cleaning out the internals. One other thing you could try doing is pre-stretching the line. Hang a decent weight on the end of a 5 foot length of line and allow it to hang for a few days. This will take the memory out of the line and may improve your chances. But, like Lance, I'm finding it hard to understand why your batch of Maxima is having trouble passing back through on itself.
I will run some line tests tomorrow and report back.
We will get to the bottom of this :)
vB
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sp,
As I said earlier I too am puzzled by this problem. FWIW I don't recall having to drill/clean out one of Bob's tubes more then 2 or 3 times over using probably 4-500 of the little devils. (That's why I still keep von Buckle Builder in beer money!? ;D ;)) The extra step can't hurt and I'm looking forward to hearing how it works out when you receive the smaller bits.
Keep plugging at it!
Cheers,
Lance
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(https://preview.ibb.co/mp9EaK/1200px_Bugatti_Veyron_16_4_Frontansicht_3_5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mL15hz)
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von Jokester,
;D ;D ;D ;D FWIW my Dentist has an identical set of wheels, bought with the proceeds of an 11 session root canal that lasted 3 weeks before he pulled the tooth!
Oh, and once I get this LVG put to bed, I may need another order .........
Cheers,
Lance
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Bob and Lance
Thanks for taking such an interest in my attempts to master these rigging materials. That y'all are puzzled is a good sign to me, it means I am doing something wrong or not doing something right. either way once I figure it out, I should be able to use these parts as intended.
I will try hanging some of the 2 lb line with a weight for a few days as I wait for my order of drill bits. Thanks again for your interest and help
sp
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It's early here in blighty, but when help is called for help must be given :)
Here you will see that the line does passed through twice.
The last picture shows my second attempt. The tube had been lightly reamed at both ends and this DID make the job easier.
I hope this helps you in your quest.
Good luck!
Cheers,
vB ;)
(https://image.ibb.co/daKR5K/Thanks_2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b3jtkK)
(https://image.ibb.co/kew65K/Thanks_3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n5XPsz)
(https://image.ibb.co/bKw65K/Thanks_4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dFfYkK)
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Bob
Those photos confirm that is exactly the line I have. I have several feet of it weighted and hanging. Drill Bits Unlimited sent me an e-mail late yesterday saying my order had shipped. I will let the line hang until I get the order of bits. Also ordered a set of 3 watchmaker's tweezers.
I will eventually get this twice thru the tube thing right.
Meanwhile, I will let the WnW kit sit a while and do some rigging on my P.S.7 with stretched sprue.
Thanks again for your time and help Bob.
sp
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My pleasure, SP!
Please let us know how you get on ;)
Cheers,
vB
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I got my order of bits and was extremely pleased that they turned out to be the kind with the 1/8" shank as opposed to the ones that are the nominal diameter for the entire length. That solves the issue of drilling out the tubes. No problem with the new bits.
I still could not get the line to pass all the way through the second time. This was using stretched line cut at an angle.
Then I had a Homer Simpson, "Doh!", moment. I had been trying to thread the line through a 3 mm length of tube. I tried a 1.5 mm length and was able to make it work. Next I will try a 1 mm piece of tube. I believe this may be what I have been doing wrong.
I will have to wait until it cools off some to practice more and see if I really have it down. Loaned my portable AC unit to a buddy whose AC went out over the Labor Day holiday weekend. I think/hope I got it because every time I got the line started a 2nd time it would go in a bit and then kink. When I pulled it out it was just short of 3 mm of straight line before the kink. With the shorter tube length I should get it through enough to get a grip in the protruding end.
sp
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SP,
Did you drill out the 3mm length?
3mm or 1mm shouldn't make a difference. The line should go through twice.
I think you're very close to nailing this. Keep up the practice and keep us updated. ;)
Cheers,
vB
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Yes, I ran a 0.3 mm bit through both the 3 mm and the 1.5 mm lengths. I got 2 lines through the drilled out 1.5 mm, but I was unable to do that on the drilled out 3 mm tube. After a break, I tried doing it with a 1 mm piece. I haven't been able to get two through that yet, however i forgot to run a 0.3 mm bit through it first. I will try clearing the tube with the bit when I go back to the shop.
On the up side, I'm getting darn good a picking up tiny pieces of tube with tweezers and putting them back in the little bag every time I try to shake out just one :-)
sp
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SP
just a thought if you haven't already tried it-I use tweezers to feed the line back in a mm or so from the end and keep moving back in small increments until it goes through,limits the chance for the line to kink which it is easy to do if you grab the line too far from the end.Hope this makes sense,good luck,
Dave.
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Hi Dave
Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I tried that technique, but with no success. I find the only pair of tweezers I have that can grip the line are too big at the point to get a grip a couple mm back from the end and not get in the way when trying to insert the line. These new watchmaker's tweezers may help.
Frustration levels are starting to go through the roof. The only other thing I can think of seems to be my poor eyesight. I will be getting new glasses soon. Additionally a twitching muscle around my left eye is getting bad. I had Botox treatment on it and it helped for a couple of months. I guess I better call and make another appointment.
sp
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Just to prove that I'm not going bonkers I confirmed to myself that Maxima line does pass through 3mm cut tube. You'll have to forgive me as I don't model much these days - to busy twisting wire and cutting tube.
Here is one I prepared earlier. Tethered to a 1/32 eyelet.
B :) B
(https://image.ibb.co/gpQzHz/Thanks.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c6e4je)
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Bob
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions and post photos. The mailman came today and brought the tweezers I ordered. It is too hot to work in the shop right now, but I put line, 3 mm tubes and tweezers together for a photo. Then with only bifocals, I had to try out the tweezers and actually succeeded in getting the second line through the tube. I used several tips I have been given as far as wiggling the line, gripping it close and trying to shove the tube on the line as opposed to shoving the line through the tube. All helped, but I think the new tweezers helped a lot. I believe a LOT of practice and some better glasses will help even more.
Thanks again Bob and everyone else who took time to post and help me out with this.
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Bravo, Steven! I knew you could do it! If a ham fisted goblin such as I could do it, you certainly could. And did!
Cheers,
Bud
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Ha! Can't keep a good man down, well done sp, and welcome to the von Bucklebuilder fan club! 8)
Cheers,
Lance
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Bud and Lance
Like the proverbial blind hog finding an occasional acorn, this blind modeler may have threaded the odd turnbuckle. Only more practice will tell. I really need to get my portable AC unit back, the shop isn't cooling off on it's own until after midnight. Patience definitely has an optimal temperature range.
sp
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Brilliant!
That's great news, SP!
It's amazing how the right tools can make all the difference ;)
Practice makes perfect.
Happy Buckling!
vB :)
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That's great Steve,your perseverence has paid off.There'll be no stopping you now.Well done!
Cheers,
Dave.
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Y'all have been really wonderful in helping me get started on rigging fittings, I do so appreciate all the help. I have been single mindedly pursuing the goal of getting a second line to pass through a bit of tubing to the point of forgetting another question I have.
I have spent a good hour prowling the help threads here and the photos of completed models and have managed to miss what I am looking for. Specifically how and when does one color the rigging? Is it done before or after the line is installed on the model? Is it done with paint or a colored marker?
sp
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sp,
Some recommend paint, some have great results with Sharpie type permanent markers and the "before or after" application seems to vary. I personally prefer Mr. Metal Color Stainless lacquer based paint done after the rigging is completed. (being careful to protect the model surface from drops or "flinches" of the brush!) Whichever medium or timing works for you I'd say, there doesn't appear to be a right or wrong method.
Cheers,
Lance
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With stretched sprue, I used Testors Metalizer lacquer. I would put a few drops in the upturned cap and then take a Q-Tip and press the line down in the paint smoothly pulling the line under the cotton bud. It would dry quickly. Not sure how the added paint will affect slipping the line through the tubes though. Might be better to use some of that stretchy Parafilm stuff to protect the wing and just paint it with a brush. The Sharpie might allow for pre coloring the line without increasing the diameter like paint. I wanted to make sure there wasn't one single way that was hands down better than others. Looks like I have another round of 'sperimentin to do.
Thanks
sp
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I run a thick black sharpie and then a silver one on the line stock I need before I start cutting,and carefully touch up with a silver finetip after installing,I don't seem to have to do much though,sharpie ink is pretty tough.