forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Halus on March 18, 2018, 04:23:25 PM
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Plans is to build an aircraft from 4 Naval Squadron as piloted by Canadian Alexander MacDonald Shook. On June 5th 1917 while flying N6347, he would be responsible for first victory scored by a Camel. That's all I can find about the air frame. taken from the Osprey publication.
On to the kit:
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4674/26522937678_dfb49bf5f4_b.jpg)
The trio of aftermarket products are HGW lap belts, Barracuda resin wicker seat, and Gaspatch resin Vickers guns.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4702/26522953628_bb874f76f1_b.jpg)
In the above photo, Eduard parts are pictured on the right side. Eduard PE belts are ok, but they look to be the WW2 Sutton type, though maybe this style was introduced very late in the war?
Started with the engine, but several push rods broke while removing from sprue:
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4604/38583287690_eebc2c771a_b.jpg)
Decision is made to replace all rods with metal rod/wire @ 0.2mm diameter. As I understand it, the RNAS preferred their Camels to be equipped with Bentley BR1. The Eduard kit I believe has the Clerget 9B, so some conversion is required. Note, I've no idea if the crankcase or cylinders are the same size or larger, but maybe best not known since it could affect fit inside the cowl.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4743/39833552954_ac3a350d8e_b.jpg)
1. - all push rods removed, drilled location holes in their place. Also added small sections of plastic sheet to the top sides of the cylinder heads. These also had location holes drilled for the piping that reaches out from the backside.
2. - each cylinder is surrounded by four rods, using 0.2mm size (same diameter as push rods). Decided to just drill one large hole to fit two rods as they come down into a V - but each hole was first packed with green putty.
3. - piping added in the rear, using 0.5mm rod. To aid in attaching to the cylinder, the curved end of the piping also had 0.3mm rod inserted to fit into the sheet plastic added in step 1.
4. - push rods finally added (0.2mm). The green putty was added afterwards for additional strength, but not really accurate in terms of detail.
5. - pair of spark plugs added to the top sides of each cylinder - no holes drilled for this. Basically just a 0.2mm rod inserted into 0.4mm section and super glued in place.
6. - Base coat of black followed by aluminum, ready for further detail painting.
Some quick numbers on the engine rebuild:
- total number of holes drilled: 54
- total number of sections of cut rods in various diamaters: 99 (11 pieces per cylinder)
Focus now turns to the cockpit...
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4800/40712572092_d937530d11_b.jpg)
Basic approach to instrument panel , but was surprised no PE on this (nor does Eduard make any separate IP for the 1/48 Camel - shocked!). Dials are individual decals, but they are oversized so had to fill in the bezels in order to accommodate the decals. The black bars (vertical and the one on top that looks like a bicycle handle) were replaced with brass rod.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4796/40712574462_325c3f7b14_b.jpg)
Belts are put together, but I did apply an umber wash to dirty them up a bit and help some of the detail stand out. HGW provides two different styles of attachment points, either metal or a loop of fabric leather. Think will go with the latter in hopes it makes it easier to attach to the air frame.
The resin wicker chair paints up nicely, but still needs a cushion, and usually the top frame also has some padding - so out came the green putty. Also added some Uschi rigging line as the raised seam around the cushion. Painted flat black afterwards, and oil from the ole forehead adds some sheen.
regards,
Jack
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Jack,
Excellent first progress my friend. This promises to real gem in the works. Looking forward to seeing more.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Very convincing Bentley BR1! Only real difference is the crankcase, which would be very challenging using the kit parts. Looking forward to following this build!
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Nice work on converting the engine! Convincing in the scale for sure! Your IP and seat are terrific!
RAGIII
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Gregory, Ian, and RAGIII -guys, thanks for stopping in and providing the positive comments.
Glad to know there are some eyes on this in case I run into problems or have questions. Only hiccup I'm aware about the kit itself is the wing struts might be mistakenly reversed on the instructions.
regards,
Jack
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nice work Jack.
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Great work!
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Nice start on your camel.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Beautiful work so far!
Antonio
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Hello Flugzeugwerke, GazzaS, Giuseppe, and Antonio - thanks kindly for those replies.
Fuselages not together yet with still the tail skid to go, but here's the final interior shots:
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/783/40909545181_a03032db3f_b.jpg)
Replaced the kit's carb intake with brass. Ideally would have left as a final step after the exterior was painted, but was required to help hold the instrument panel in place. Just barely visible are some cross wires added on the cockpit sides.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/783/40015770685_9666f2bd3a_b.jpg)
Rebuilt the control column as the kit part looked kind of chunky for the scale.
regards,
Jack
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Great detailing Jack. Looks outstanding. Looking forward to your progress.
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Jack,
That's superb detail for 1:48 Scale, lots of it and very finely presented, looks more like 1:32. I may have missed your intro here, where in the great Canadian expanse are you? Nice work and welcome aboard!
Cheers,
Lance
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Great work , Jack. The control column now looks really good. I like your extra detailing, it lifts the kit to an other level.
Bye,
Manni
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The new control column looks sweet!
Gaz
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Excellent work Jack! This shaping up to be a real gem!
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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Fantastic work! That cushion is just wonderful!
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Beautifully done interior, Jack! I really like your control column, looks much more realistic.
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Looking Better than Terrific! Love the stick and overall interior work!
RAGIII
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Just catching up. Thanks for posting your progress. It is turning out beautifully!!
Steve
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Nice detailing !!
Ed
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Juan, Lance, Manni, Gaz, Dave, Mark, Ian, RAGIII, Steve, and Ed - Gentlemen, thanks very much for all those positive comments.
Lance, you asked where in Canada I reside, that would be a small town in NE Ontario.
regards,
Jack
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"Lance, you asked where in Canada I reside, that would be a small town in NE Ontario"
Jack,
Thanks, and welcome to our little club from a small town in North Eastern Alberta!
Cheers,
Lance
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Hi Lance, thank you for the welcome.
Right, looking to the future of this build, trying to sort out the rigging. I tried the forum's search function on the subject specifically dealing with the Camel, but I did not find an answer. Am I correct in stating the flat wires basically all had the same style anchor points - I'm thinking the Late RAF style from Gaspatch:
(http://cdn7.bigcommerce.com/s-z0fnvjg/images/stencil/1024x1024/products/33/143/TB_series__67722.1362233363.jpg?c=2)
Another question, how accurate is the museum example IKANOPIT, is it a good reference for the rigging?
https://www.largescaleplanes.com/walkaround/wk.php?wid=175 (https://www.largescaleplanes.com/walkaround/wk.php?wid=175)
regards,
Jack
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The gaspatch 'RAF Late type' certainly seems correct for the Camel. I have been considering getting some but the problem is that they expect you to simply glue your rigging wire to the end with a butt joint which just doesn't seem like a very sensible way of doing things.
I'd love to see how you get on if you do try it though!
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Thank you Mark and Red Baron.
Yes, I see the problem now that it is pointed out, not much of a mating surface. I have a couple ideas on how to use them:
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/875/26181710197_2724b07335_b.jpg)
The first method would be the simplest, just cut off the stem so there is a bit more area to hold a dab of super glue gel. I think given the scale, that stem won't be noticed if missing.
The second method involves a bit more work, and would also increase diameter appearances of the stem end, but would result in a stronger glue point to the rigging line. Basically one would have to prepare brass tubes the length of the stem end, cut the stem in half, and then glue the brass over that end. Now you have a hollow into which you can glue the rigging line into.
Also looks like I will need to drill a couple square holes in the lower wings as the rear set of double wires attach to the landing gear:
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/804/40344180914_f5d517a2d8_b.jpg)
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Another question now is the machined or turned aluminum look on the cowl. Is it known when 4 RNAS began to paint over these areas in grey? The aircraft I plan to portray flew June 1917 ...
regards,
Jack
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update ...
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/871/39359840620_881ed61fc4_b.jpg)
Once the fuselage halves were together, work was needed on both top and bottom seams. A length of sprue was added on top to represent the detail of the uppermost dorsal stringer. That was further sanded down.
The decking behind the cockpit has two openings for access to the fuel tanks. The raised detail was kind of weak here, and at first tried filling with just some plugs from sprue and boring those out, but did not like how that looked. So ended up fashioning the replacement 'collars' by cutting and filing down brass sheet.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/819/41125938312_7153035611_b.jpg)
The bottom wing requires a hole near the wing roots. This is for the bracing wires as they pass through the wings and attach to the landing gear struts.
The fuselage underside was completely flat, but should have some subtle cloth effects between the wooden frames, just like the sides have. Thought I could just slightly carve out the centers, but the pressure undid the glued joint. So out came the razor saw to remove the whole bottom.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/891/41125938992_830653a72e_b.jpg)
Plastic sheet was used to fashion a false bottom,and once that is fixed in place, some further putty will be applied to create the subtle fabric effects.
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Happy to report that the putty work on the underside came out like I had hoped it would:
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/867/40299038465_c367046374_b.jpg)
After passing a sanding stick on the underside to ensure all the cross members were flush with with fuselage sides, the putty was made ready. Mixed in with the kneadatite was 50% Apoxie Sculpt - this combination makes for better surface for sanding if required after the putty has cured.
1. - putty is rolled into worm lenghts and pressed around the framework.
2. - it is then further spread out towards the center with a metal tool
3. - further smoothed out with a fingertip
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/900/40299040275_96b333a7f8_b.jpg)
Above, the finished results.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/890/26321901407_1db6bafc7b_b.jpg)
The subtle fabric effects are most visible at extreme angle and favourable lighting.
regards,
Jack
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Brilliant work thus far, Jack! Your modifications and enhancement will really make this Camel stand out.
Cheers,
Bud
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Outstanding detailing Jack, looks great.
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Thank you Mark and Red Baron.
Yes, I see the problem now that it is pointed out, not much of a mating surface. I have a couple ideas on how to use them:
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/875/26181710197_2724b07335_b.jpg)
The first method would be the simplest, just cut off the stem so there is a bit more area to hold a dab of super glue gel. I think given the scale, that stem won't be noticed if missing.
The second method involves a bit more work, and would also increase diameter appearances of the stem end, but would result in a stronger glue point to the rigging line. Basically one would have to prepare brass tubes the length of the stem end, cut the stem in half, and then glue the brass over that end. Now you have a hollow into which you can glue the rigging line into.
Um, I think you have the Gaspatch thingies upside down. The cylindrical end is meant to be mounted to the plane. The flat end was designed to be mated with (flat) rigging wire...
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Thank you Bud, Juan, and Flugzeuwerke.
About the Gaspatch RAF Late type rigging attachment, I could be wrong, but it is either I'm not seeing correctly, or the details from this restored example are also wrong?
To me, the flat end is embedded into the aircraft surface, while the nut detail is nearer the flat wire bracing, as per these photos:
(https://www.largescaleplanes.com/walkaround/images/175/175-16.jpg)
(https://www.largescaleplanes.com/walkaround/images/175/175-1.jpg)
(https://www.largescaleplanes.com/walkaround/images/175/175-23.jpg)
(https://www.largescaleplanes.com/walkaround/images/175/175-8.jpg)
regards,
Jack
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Jack, yep, you're right, I'm wrong. (Happens a lot it seems.) When they first came out that was how I understood they were supposed to be used -- flat rigging wire glued against the flat side, but clearly that's not the intent.
Honestly in that case I don't see how they will add to your model, but I'm ready to be impressed.
carry on :)
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Flugzeugwerke, it's all good.
I wonder if other people that had tried this particular product also used the wider flat end as the wire attachment point. Doesn't bode well, as the proper end has even less area to hold glue.
regards,
Jack
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Great update and on the rigging topic your method 2 should work to my eyes
Steve
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I played around with these Gaspatch RAF rigging attachments also. The brass sleeve over the rod end worked fine for me, but the real problem was anchoring the flat end into the plastic. There isn't enough room where the double wires anchor, and I couldn't find a workable way of cutting in the appropriate sized slots for the flat end. It's easy enough to drill a small round hole, but to cut in a flat slot? If you come up with a good way, please post it because I would like to know for next time.
Thanks,
Geoge
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Thank you Steve and George.
Yeah, I wouldn't bother cutting out rectangle shaped holes for the rigging attachments either - I mean one could approach them like I did the openings for the wires that pass through near the wings roots, but even for me I'd consider that way too much work.
I'd of thought super glue gel would do the trick, both provide adhesion and fill in the remaining space of the drilled holes, but if not, filling the holes with green putty before anchoring the Gaspatch products into that should do the trick?
regards,
Jack
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I envy those of you that seek perfection! My method would/Will be smoke and mirrors white glue and incorrect round fishing line 8)
RAGIII
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I envy those of you that seek perfection! My method would/Will be smoke and mirrors white glue and incorrect round fishing line 8)
RAGIII
Oh Rick, how can you live with that? ;)
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I like the Gaspatch turnbuckles, but not the RAF type.
So I build my own solution during work on the Sopwith Pup in 1/48 (https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=8554.0).
A terminal for the RAF wires (I use this flat EZ-line for this), raw ...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/v0tTa0qUprIIOluN-DIHcMddHs2gIVFJDEhixvtcS_hXNVxoecY03jBjm-V8BIXG2oaemjvmgP7eTi7bOkSurEll1UhrfJ_7tTEYKEwn16H9YLoTxN3GHtDWGHfbquKkLmEICjLmnyUfg0lP-WGQO_0TmouV4x4HweVGINxWz-OOQOIaSm8lLHENonSLwGqKNty-MpJW2LxX1ZouweQfViljcUwYBlb9xnvGRHar9MDc5fb2Pf66VBotL3Fm-m3V0etD2p26T6ZVazn5jXMFzxydgGtv29SbuTt02r4T8y6yiglZPWyxxVPdb_taa6_EToaXonezAyTWNG2vWVzcXVKEkCtYyaiK8-eeJi0_rqh-5qBe-N4hxeWlULYiukwUTeyR_KvUm1tmz_mGBMnAkXGnSvGRmVACMaA4Fk-BII8j_UXbaFsh-SZIQfYxNJJGvEN1ng2lt9Iun-TWtRuHInJr4HweCiPaSP7RerDvSDzZX3dgqvLvtfOmyku_g9spjgiLq0uUFsXJg3A6urFGXo-RJZbuG8xcUa-mhazCUZN0I7qk_bkGJNMJ2htUxzlDLb1Rf7zrQjC256K0vCRTk2Xjsr6xw8IUw0xrmlM9ljUJvpgtRt_5=w800-h569-no)
... and in use:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DJzi9JZAAziV5OAkueo0APqFBrgrnaeNq4ieNaBoPSBuPntdrcUQlFP9XqpsZgkBR6lToY8WQC6aVH7qmX9_xyEc4R7DRY039eEeifsOqBVoV8PLZ8awpMmB3HzP5piKZAGM53H3evgZ91PnOgdTyNDPnDHO6-1bqJVkTQG-hO4EaNNcqpAM3nVpo9IgChbd6LAnEUkL_ljHk2ln1R43lB25bNCCN6qmr08ORFtU2jjrjFFlTCvNfZvmmDZF8gOFrLKA-KNdy8PcGzfOkuA8SyfVYTeHSEftwpznWWM-SlliiRQlglJs8V9ob33i1nr7a9zsH3tqnLq7E61bsWzE1-0zQJ18G_RdT_tXEJc8HGN1FLtu9OkP7it_wq9EhmWxHpQwT5DDSqQ43IrV0Kw-U2LxnEcP2hOjXPE9WphnFHE7Pk-eRqGMnpKn2zjJZzwSiv3-CFmjsiqMZiC45OSzvP7Pt_Z0twzz2KiDkSpfEIjve0lT6v_YVg_V_a6sQZDOe1X5sqcRRoDIA1aIr6y3DOnINiZqh-e1Wddo9bjK-dapppdsrYLKVwq3CeWfOKSHUG5XqogmQaQtZgFQ22KxpvFKqjfTS5QnL62_Y52EaOAcCJ5tVsWr=w800-h508-no)
Cheers,
Frank
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"Lance, you asked where in Canada I reside, that would be a small town in NE Ontario"
Jack,
Thanks, and welcome to our little club from a small town in North Eastern Alberta!
Cheers,
Lance
Uh, oh: I live in a small town in NE Ontario. Wouldn't it be neat if...!<G>
Good luck with this build, Jack! 8)
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Jack,
Outstanding Camel project my friend. I really am impressed with how you handled her underside,EXCELLENT. Looking forward to seeing how your rigging turns out. Keep up the high excellence.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Frank, thanks for those image links from your build (had to go see your Pup and leave a comment for you there). Man, that is ingenuity to create your own turnbuckles.
Gary, thanks for that ... does your small town have an arena that once used to be known as 'The Barn'?
hi Gregory, thanks and I'm trying ...
regards,
Jack
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Thank you Jack!
Your interior and the other things looks so cool, so I had to add my ideas here.
Cheers,
Frank
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Since last update, have worked on both ends of the fuselage and got her up on her legs somewhat. I tell ya it was a bit tricky setting the main landing gear, as all three pieces had to be positioned before the glue set:
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/879/40638259035_3e5eee6e36_b.jpg)
Wheels won't be added until after everything is painted up, same with the rudder (taped for photo).
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/795/26634377787_4caec49a23_b.jpg)
Tail assembly needed some reinforcement, as the fin was only held in place by a single point forward. So added a 0.8mm brass rod, which also acts as the hinge attachment point for the rudder. Tail skid also fixed, just barely visible is the support rod made of brass.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/796/40819133384_ec97683373_b.jpg)
1. - original rudder attachment has three thick hinges, these were trimmed off. The added brass rod also makes this area more accurate detail wise.
2. - detail view. Note the hinges were placed into notches sawed into the spine of the rudder.
3. - test fit of rudder.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/938/39695715870_5f4b47fd27_b.jpg)
At the forward end, latches made from sheet plastic. A thin wire added around the circumference of the cowl as well as some further details on the underside - based on photos.
(http://c1.staticflickr.com/1/859/26634378907_e69220149f_b.jpg)
To facilitate the painting stage, decided to separate the cockpit decking into it's wood and metal sections. Sawing exercise causes some plastic loss, so had to replace that with sheet plastic.
A side note, Eduard provides two styles of cockpit decking - the one above is the cut open style. This was a field modification to facilitate access to the gun breeches. I couldn't find any info as to when this was carried out on this particular air frame (or even as a general practice for the Camel units), but really not much choice in the matter when fitting the aftermarket machine guns.
regards,
Jack
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Wow! Your work is amazing. The turnbuckles are extreme realistic.
Bye,
Manni
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Awesome work!
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Excellent added details. It took a minute for me to remember this is the 1/48th Eduard kit!
RAGIII
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Actually great progress. A masterpiece in the making!
Borsos
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Thank you GazzaS, RAGIII, and Borsos.
Manni, thanks I think, but if you are referring to the home made turnbuckle photos, that is Frank's (Bughunter) work.
regards,
Jack
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Sopwith Camel is still on the bench, but have missed a few days here and there of getting myself to sit down ...
Got the struts sorted out, but man it's true as someone stated on another forum - it's like trying to balance a ruler on four free standing pencils. The cabane struts are fixed directly onto the fuselage, different from Eduard's design of affixing them to the cockpit decking.
(http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1746/41729361395_d780ef3360_b.jpg)
The outer struts I found a bit short in height, so added some plastic sheet to the ends. Once the glue dried, the ends are sanded flush with the original part. All ends also had some brass pins added to better lock into pre-drilled holes.
(http://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1760/41729362085_a8f58dd8c7_b.jpg)
... and finally grey primer is on. Upper wing is just a test fit for photo purposes. Should mention the resin MG's (Gaspatch product), were not a simple drop fit. The undersides had to be carved, as well as the framework they sit on inside the cockpit. Compared to the kit's weapons, Eduard had them undersized.
regards,
Jack
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Excellent update, it really looks a bigger scale.
Giuseppe
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Excellent results showing your work was worthwhile! Looking forward to seeing some color...even if it is PC10 or 12 ;D
RAGIII
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Thank you Giuseppe and RAGIII.
Yes, it will be a variation of PC10.
According to the late Dan San Abbott - "The RNAS were not permitted to use PC10, and RFC patent and they developed their own color which was a greenish shade of olive drab."
regards,
Jack
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That do look good!
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Tank you GazzaS.
No colour on yet. Sanded some rough spots and sprayed the areas with primer one final time. I hope to utilize the grey as part of the shading underneath the main paint.
regards,
Jack