forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: krow113 on February 11, 2018, 03:28:55 AM

Title: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 11, 2018, 03:28:55 AM
Returning here with the Gotha GIV kit from WNW.

               **PLEASE BE AWARE OF THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE WORK AS DETAILED IN LINK BELOW**
                           http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235016614-a-gotha/


 
Here is pretty much everything , there are a lot more figs now:
(https://preview.ibb.co/k6a9Cb/IMG_0200.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nPTUCb)

 Not too much actual assy as I have been working through camo masks and paint masks fr the kit , some shots starting with paint masks:
(https://preview.ibb.co/n6C5g6/IMG_3045.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m4TNTm)
(https://preview.ibb.co/n13z5c/IMG_3054.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kTSRkc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nvXP0c/IMG_3063.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eT0Ytx)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fBPkw6/IMG_3039.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eeoCb6)
Camo masks:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cAt91m/IMG_2999.jpg) (https://ibb.co/npaNMm)
(https://preview.ibb.co/nLyv6m/IMG_2993.jpg)

 Today I figured outt that the doghouse can be removeable for detail inspection , by cutting almost through the small gun ring part attached to it , gluing the ring piece  in place and then cutting the rest of the doghouse off.
Clamped:
[url=https://ibb.co/nEciBS](https://preview.ibb.co/irGzkn/IMG_3065.jpg) (http://[url=https://ibb.co/eMZDsR)
Set:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ctcp37/IMG_3073.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bNkywS)
Cut off:
(https://preview.ibb.co/m0gtVn/IMG_3071.jpg) (https://ibb.co/innp37)
Still fits:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ctcp37/IMG_3073.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bNkywS)
Made a slurry and filled it:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cSLVbS/IMG_3076.jpg) (https://ibb.co/goxXqn)

 As our illustriuous leader said; " Its your model , build it the way you want"
Thanks Des.

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on February 11, 2018, 05:18:31 AM
Terrific work on the masks! Your Gotha is looking spectacular.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Juan on February 11, 2018, 05:23:39 AM
Looking great, glad you are back on this one.  Looking forward to your progress.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 12, 2018, 04:57:08 PM
Thanks Rick and Jaun.
 Slurry sanded:
(https://preview.ibb.co/bv1YFn/IMG_3077.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mCKaT7)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bYq4MS/IMG_3078.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iNn7an)
 Fuselage sanded and ready for primer:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ey3287/IMG_3081.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cQSUo7)
Smallest amount of filler required at the end of the gun tunnel:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ieBYFn/IMG_3084.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cF77an)
   
  I made the decision to remove the 4 rib tape details from the lower wing center section. This is based on a number of pics that show there was no fabric on the section , being made of plywood like the fuselage.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jLePqn/IMG_3086.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ewaxAn)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Ssasho0 on February 12, 2018, 07:54:20 PM
Hi Steve,

It looks great so far and I really like the detachable "Dog house" idea. The instrumental pane looks awesome, the wood too and this will turn out great I have no doubt!
I have just started the same kit and as you are ahead of myself I will be keeping an eye here :)

Best regards,
Sasho
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 13, 2018, 03:22:03 AM
Thanks Ssashoo.

 If you look in your instructions for this kit you can see a rendered cockpit by a modeller for WNW , that was the look I was trying for with the wood color.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: coyotemagic on February 13, 2018, 04:52:37 AM
Superb work on the interior, Steve!  This one's destined for greatness!
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 13, 2018, 06:57:35 AM
Thanks Bud!
 Interior work continues with detailing the gun ring.. The 2 cm Becker would require some reinforcing of the ring. I made a measuring strip and clamped it on:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kwKoGS/IMG_3089.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dF5jqn)
Then cut the details from hi-po flat black vinyl , 2 strips that cover the seams and look ok ;
(https://preview.ibb.co/mVbcbS/IMG_3095.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kx03GS)
 The mount and reinforcement is from pics of other planes with this sort of armament.
Detailing continues with a bombsite cover , and mg mount finishing:
(https://preview.ibb.co/heBP6S/IMG_3099.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g8KY0n)
(https://preview.ibb.co/eSA6Ln/IMG_3098.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g0mffn)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cmDht7/IMG_3102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jMSWmS)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Manni on February 13, 2018, 04:16:09 PM
Wow, Steve! Really outstanding work. All these additional details, this is right now a stunner.
Bye,
Manni
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: KitRookie37 on February 13, 2018, 04:42:35 PM
Hi mates,
Very, very good job !! I like it !  :)
Best regards.
Alain.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on February 14, 2018, 01:34:42 AM
Brilliant work!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 14, 2018, 07:14:00 AM
Manni , Rick , Alain ; Thank you.
 Details continue as maskwork and sanding sucks.
So I went ahead and began fabricating a Becker mount , just an amalgum of mounts I've looked at over the last little while:
(https://preview.ibb.co/iLqxT7/IMG_3107.jpg) (https://ibb.co/igF9an)

(https://preview.ibb.co/iioj87/IMG_3105.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iqWhvn)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: UFAG on February 14, 2018, 08:05:37 AM
chapeau..!! very delicate detail..!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 16, 2018, 05:14:30 AM
Thanks UFAG.
Becker mount continuation:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kOsqY7/IMG_3115.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dBmv0n)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on February 17, 2018, 11:40:06 AM
Continuing to be awesome work.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 17, 2018, 01:23:59 PM
Thanks Rick.
 The Becker mount looks to be enough:
(https://preview.ibb.co/hy5aLn/IMG_3121.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gSDjD7)
I went over the cannon as well, the 2 rings at the front looked a little too 'ray gun' and needed thinning down.
 And a 1 x 1 x 12 mm strip goes in to cover the inside seam:
(https://preview.ibb.co/g5Ad6S/IMG_3124.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eXZ5mS)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 19, 2018, 05:36:40 AM
Nail sight begins. WNW's AEG offering to the right:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kAWdQn/IMG_3126.jpg) (https://ibb.co/naOEy7)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mkUkqn/IMG_3130.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nJ4JAn)
(https://preview.ibb.co/h5C237/IMG_3137.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hqm6Vn)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hNpUY7/IMG_3147.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cyk3t7)
And I finish the day with the flare rack from WNW's German accy set, backsawed to curve:
(https://preview.ibb.co/itA6fn/IMG_3152.jpg) (https://ibb.co/edXK0n)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on February 19, 2018, 06:04:46 AM
The cannon looks terrific in place and I am sure the sight will turn out Fantastic!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 19, 2018, 12:27:19 PM
Thanks Rick.
Check my back posts as I add pics to show a little progression.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: dr 1 ace on February 21, 2018, 06:55:23 AM
Marvelous work !

Ed
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on February 21, 2018, 07:32:59 AM
    Some great additions and very nice work here, Steve. I'm going to have to follow a little more diligently, lots to be learned here! 8) 8) 8)
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 21, 2018, 08:14:12 AM
Ed & Lance;
Thank you.
 And no worries its good to see an AEG going on , there are a lot more details available for that aircraft and the engines are the same as the Gotha so I will need to reference the thread and pics of the real aircraft.

 As far as the different engines equipment , I go to my standby comment that things were progressing at an alarming rate as far as engines armament , gauges etc at that period in aviation. You may not be right in some small inconsequential details, but no-one can prove otherwise.

Here are the latest details along with some prior work , I was painting the cannon mount and bombsight today:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fpse2c/IMG_3160.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e2ZsNc)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on February 23, 2018, 09:36:21 AM
Looking terrific!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Juan on February 23, 2018, 10:19:57 AM
Those parts are looking fantastic.  They will add a lot of detail.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GB on February 23, 2018, 06:22:55 PM
Looking terrific!
RAGIII

What he said  ;D

Gary
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Borsos on February 23, 2018, 11:27:02 PM
Hello, welcome back!
You made an impressive progress on your Gotha. I am keen on seeing her painted with your interesting masking method.
Best regards
Borsos
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 25, 2018, 02:17:42 PM
Rick , Juan  , Gary , Borsos ;
Thank you!

 My problem is that I cant paint anything with a wood stove in the same room. I did not know that wood stoves throw an immense amount of dust everywhere. And I mean EVERYWHERE!
LOL
So I am loading up the paint shop with as many models as I can , parking them all at paints door. The menagerie includes a 1/35 LVTA , a 200mm nazi chick with a machine gun (!) , the Gotha , a 1/6 Tamiya Fat Boy Lo (in red metalflake ).
Here's the chick , since alla your ears perked up on that one:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ctvNax/IMG_3168.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m8Uhax)
Her MP 40 came with the end busted off so I fabbed up a suppressor:
(https://preview.ibb.co/irNMQw/IMG_2855.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hhwgQw)

 My point is that I will get these kits to paint and then do a huge cleanup , blowing out the whole house and cleaning the paint area up.
Thanks for watching and your patience.


Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on February 26, 2018, 02:27:27 AM
Steve,
    Wrt wood stoves and dust you'll notice they describe them as "air tight", not "ash tight"! I've supplemented with wood heat for decades, and thus have all my models in closed cabinets, the dust/ash problem is unbelievable! Good luck with that, and the Gotha continues to impress!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on March 04, 2018, 06:53:45 AM
Thanks Lance.
I'm looking into a dust collection system like in woodwork shops.
 Smallish update as I work through a number of on the go kits.
Masking strips were cut to cover the walkways during the plywood work to come :
(https://preview.ibb.co/d6JWYS/IMG_3242.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mgYLSn)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on March 18, 2018, 02:28:10 AM
Some cool AM from Gaspatch , always well done and never any probs, Good stuff!
Vane sights:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dhuD2x/IMG_3278.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bQkaFH)
And machine guns:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cSFaFH/IMG_3277.jpg) (https://ibb.co/irK2vH)
I've never heard of these guns , anyone have a link or more info ?
I'll also be going to see an older German gent on the island today and get some translation done for the engine work upcoming.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Borsos on March 18, 2018, 02:43:29 AM
The Schwarzlose was the standard Austro-Hungarian Machine Gun:
sadly only in German:
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschinengewehr_Schwarzlose
but here some information in English
http://www.hungariae.com/Schwarz.htm
Borsos
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GAJouette on March 18, 2018, 10:12:00 AM
 Steve,
Excellent progress my old friend. I really like you Becker 20mm too. Keep up the high levels of excellence.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on March 22, 2018, 06:28:00 AM
Thanks Borsos , that is enough info for me to go on.
Gregory thank you , always a pleasure
Not much in the way of modelling, still looking at a major cleanup of the work area prior to paint starting. The temperature around here is going up as well ...
I also finally got the Ma gauge I need before firing up my new laser engraver, installed and working.
Test pulse proves:
(https://preview.ibb.co/mmVnkH/IMG_3312.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ceePXx)
Some fooling around shows encouraging results:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ipBMH7/IMG_3332.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dfYqAS)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 01, 2018, 02:08:18 AM
First paying job out of the laser , a nice piece of island maple burl , a stainless plate and we have a cool display:

(https://preview.ibb.co/dnLQpn/IMG_3345.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eTewvS)

Immersing in the laser learning curve has taken up a lot of time lately, back to the modelling soon...
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on April 01, 2018, 08:56:50 AM
That looks great!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 05, 2018, 02:09:35 AM
Thanks Gaz!

 Upcoming work on the Gotha includes the problematic Taurus valve train resin upgrade set.

I've been perusing other threads and the parts , as well as the instructions for the set , and have come up with a few reasons for the set being a bit of a pain. I have also set out to solve the problems and make it easier to understand as well as install the set.
I'll be laying out the parts and taking some pics in the next few hours , then I'll go into the details of the sets installation.
Thanks for your patience and 'wait for it'...
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Europapete on April 05, 2018, 02:58:01 AM
Excellent!! thank you, I have a number of those sets but not used any yet. I have started on their  Gnome Mono engine for the DH2, and that is a real beauty. Straight forward to build with no issues. Regards, Pete in RI.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 05, 2018, 06:03:21 AM
Thanks Pete.

** THIS IS THE START OF THE TAURUS PROCEDURES**
I'll do the extended work on this posting, that means I'll be coming back and adding the information to this post , rather than a bunch of posts about he same work.
 The work involves Taurus' resin set # D3206 for the WNW Mercededs D IVa.
**There  will be whinging on this post , if this disturbs you , move on , I'll do my best to try and solve the problem rather than whine and do nothing**
Here are the parts:
(https://preview.ibb.co/moaBmc/IMG_3404.jpg)[/url

 Whats all the fuss about?     
Its WNW for cryin' out loud , their stuff is perfect! ...isnt it?
Lol. Yes and some details are 'conveniently moulded' . Like the spark plug locations on the Biff's engine. Moulded to suit the injection moulding production process. Convenience moulding.

 I assume that's the reason, I don't really care , but close examination of the WNW valve spring mouldings shows an outwardly arcing spring shape , prolly to go with the new fangled arced valve stems ....and in conjunction with the '5 stroke' engine valve layout in the Taurus instructions.
More on that later...
THIS arced valve/spring layout is the whole reason for the replacement of the valves , rocker arms and camshaft housing . I can see no other outstanding reason for the work.

The two cylinder bank parts are the only ones at play from the kit.
Here are the Taurus parts:
[url=https://ibb.co/g2mZ6c](https://preview.ibb.co/eUB1mc/IMG_3387.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cnTmKx)
 You get a camshaft housing , rocker arms , open/closed valve springs , and some other part that is undefineable at this point as to what they are and where they go!
Some actual engine pics courtesy of Bertyl on The Aerodrome forum:
(https://image.ibb.co/mmqdhH/Bild_333drome.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://image.ibb.co/g6eSbc/Bild_317drome.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://preview.ibb.co/e2f5Ux/Bild_334drome.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iGJs9x)

 Some details of note;
- The valves are at a 15 degree angle. ** THE most important piece of information for this work ** Janes book supplies the 15 degree angle info.
- There are 4 valves per cylinder ! A performance engine trait that was nailed from the get -go on this powerplant.
- 2 valves per every intake and 2 valves per exhaust , 12 on each side , 24 in total .
- The look of the rocker arms suggests a front to back rotation, the rotation is actually from side to side; ie: In the pic directly above both of the valves will open at the same time, they are both intake valves.
I'll insert this here. I have this book:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fRDMXS/IMG_3459.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eudoCS)
It has the engine in a section on engines in the back. A complete breakdown with photos that answer alla the questions in this thread:
(https://preview.ibb.co/c79vsS/IMG_3460.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bMr8CS)
(https://preview.ibb.co/b06mz7/IMG_3461.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jaMasS)
 Dimensions taken from all of the parts. Fed into Corel we come up with a nice drawing of the plan view of the valve layout . I used 'O' for open , and 'C' for closed valves.
(https://image.ibb.co/meEhRc/valves.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

The Taurus instructions are a little misleading in that they have the second from the right cylinder with all 4 valves open! This must be the mystical '5 stroke' engine I alluded to earlier. No 4 stroke engine would ever have intake and exhaust valves open at the same time , it is quite impossible , and thinking of piston position , would really make it hard for the engine to run. Shown here:
(https://preview.ibb.co/e7t3zx/IMG_3392.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cZHVex)
In reading the Janes book I find that this engine was equipped with an 'over compressed' mechanism which allowed for a set of exhaust valves to be open during the compression stroke . This was to ease the rotation of the crank during setup procedures by mechanics. The lever on the back of the camshaft assy is the way to do this , the cam would disengage and move a little , enough to allow another roller to bump open the exhaust valves just enough to relieve compression.
On Harleys we would pull the plugs.
My thought was that perhaps this is what is being portrayed in the double open valves on cylinder #2 in the drawing. However continued reading says nothing about intake valves being open , and you only need one set open to relieve compression. So it will be up to the model builder to determine their own course of action on this point.

Actual size printout reveals a good fit:
(https://preview.ibb.co/erHK6c/IMG_3405.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fXbqCH)

Next up is the crucial cuts to the WNW parts.

Best described as an angled cut, using the finest side of my UMM razor saw I begin with just a few careful strokes on the outside of the assy, laying the saw right on the top of the manifold landings ,which are a stable guide , and angling the blade down as the strokes are made. This is the finish cut that begins the needed angle and will meet up with the second cut.
The second cut begins betwen the rows of springs , you can see a moulded in lower spring cup , place your blade along these edges and cutting at 90 degrees at first , then angling the blade down to meet the first cut.
** KEEP THE CYLINDER ASSY FLAT ON THE BENCH** As it will flex a small amount during cutting , this was fixed on mine , but will throw off the cut.
Springs cut off , cut edges dressed with files and some thin glue , you can see a half round spring cup shape left:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kmYKNH/IMG_3406.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cK1TGc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dgP4px/IMG_3407.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iq3awc)
I'm happy with this , cutting the springs off flat adds to the workload , already difficult enough , I have an angle , may not be absolutly correct but an angle none the less.
 I use jigs , understand them, and incorporate them easily and properly into almost alla my work, on signs . models, custom bikes etc , etc , for my whole life. So a jig must be made here , not only for a better drilling alignment , but also to hold alla those valve spring assy's while the glue sets. I'm thinking of a simple ,some jigs are simple , strip of material with the spacing and holes drilled to allow proper cylinder bank spring landing drilling and accept the spring top pins during final assy.

  **WASH THE PARTS THOUROUGHLY IN LAQUER THINNER OR ALCOHOL - DO NOT OMIT THIS STEP **
  ** DO NOT SOAK AS THE PARTS WILL ABSORB AND DEFORM **

 Getting input from fellow forum members regarding the 'T' shaped parts. I see exactly where they are to go.
 And I tried my best to get them there!
  Here is a setup for removing the tiny parts from the sprues. I letter sized sheet is folded for a 'safety net' background if any parts decide to take to the air.The razor saw and clamp work within the tray confines , the tray to catch the parts as they fall off:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fYydty/IMG_3580.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kBjJty)
I cut the sprue on a moulded in dividing line , and clamped the working piece:
(https://preview.ibb.co/iAShLd/IMG_3582.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jCAPYy)
Lay the saws finest edge on the tiny edge,it can be felt with the saw , and letting the saw do the work, held with the lightest touch:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dOU7mJ/IMG_3583.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bL2hLd)
And cut the parts off one by one, orienting the saw with each cut as any miscue ruins the part - this is where your patience is tested:
(https://preview.ibb.co/iVtNLd/IMG_3585.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cpeJty)
I had to cut the sprue a number of times to orient the saw better , watch for that. I managed to cut all of them off without loss this time. I recommend sawing the parts off as it has the least chance of installing force into the part, knife cutting uses a separating force installing energy into the part and upping the chance of it getting airborne. The gentle sawing motion separates the part and it falls away inertly into the tray.

 After cutting the parts off some problems show up right away. The landings are not all the same, and cutting them accuratly is near impossible. After cutting all of the glueing surface' must be dressed. Then the inside edge that goes against the camshaft housings must be rounded off in order to get them to stand up straight. These 2 operations are best done with a file , holding the parts down on the bench top with one finger and filing as needed . As for mounting there is no help to align them , its very hard to get all of them straight , did'nt matter to me any way , 2 broke in half and one of each size flew off somewhere. Even the opnes I managed to get attached in the 2 hours I worked on this are all at slightly different heights.  And the sickening application and re-application of cyano is something I hate.
View from underside:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cjw7Ux/IMG_3414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hc9i2H)
This pic shows placement to good effect:
(https://preview.ibb.co/eYv1px/IMG_3416.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dtbVhH)
These are all I will put on as they are the only ones that made it this far. It will be enough to align the camshaft and establish a height.
So after installing the ' T ' s we see that the camshaft housing is raised too high above the top of the cylinder head. I can nip these off, at which point they will prolly fly , fly , fly away , or I can drill a hole in the top of the cylinder head to accept the 'stand'.
Checking the third drawing of the supplied instructions we see the 'T's are shown flush with the bottom of the camshaft housing. This leads the viewer to think that's the height they should be at , which is not the case as you will see further on.
 So with the 'stands' dried and confidence high , I plopped the assy on top of the cylinder/head assy. Of course the indefinite 'stand' length and other small factors made for a less than stellar looking and feeling situation.
Any way here is the assy:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cDjk1c/IMG_3418.jpg) (https://ibb.co/koyZux)
Looks to be a bit of a gap:
(https://preview.ibb.co/d4jPux/IMG_3420.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mAr4ux)
With the cam assy placed on top and the camdrive (lollypop) housing in place and everything lined up , we got ourselves a gap:
(https://preview.ibb.co/mFa9wc/IMG_3433.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dXcNGc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mOOwbc/IMG_3436.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ewr4Ux)
(https://preview.ibb.co/noOONH/IMG_3439.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kGoq2H)
Here is the final camshaft layout , I did mess up in that I had used some short 'T's instead of long ones for the placement of the cam. This can still be done and has to be done carefully to line up the rockers and springs. So here is the camshaft with the 'T' 's in place with 2 part epoxy:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cdvWWT/IMG_3600.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dZfyBT)
 The camshaft and stands are proving to be the most difficult part of this set. Here it is again slathered in ca and kicker to try and get the parts to adhere , everytime I'm within 5 feet of this assy one or two of the stands flys away:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dybT1T/IMG_3657.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eNU4ao)
As the stands are all ending up different heights , which makes it tough to get it  properly mounted and spaced , I drilled some landings into the cylinder tops to seat the stands into. I think there is room for adjustment which is sorely needed to get this set up properly:
(https://preview.ibb.co/mEr0Fo/IMG_3658.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dcsU88)
  Here it is in place now. The height being set by the 'lollypop' and by eye as there is no other way. At least I will be able to supply a dimension for the space between the cylinder head and the underside of the camshaft.
The amount of work and rework calls this set into question for me. slathering repeated applications of cyano, and epoxy are not getting things to stay together. I have it on now , I have the gear drive in place and found out that the camshaft is on backwards. The only way to tell is to look very keenly at the ends of the camshaft , one end has a collar that the other does not. I fashioned a s/steel replacement collar and will keep going. I'll try to get alla the little 't's back in place most of them falling off during the assy attempts. As well as the resin being unreceptive to adhesion to anything , it is also flexible , this may be also part of the problem:
(https://preview.ibb.co/eRUryJ/IMG_3716.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gz4PJJ)

** To update the 'gap issue' I have read ( in one of the supplied other builds at the end of this post ) that the modeller had shortened the cam drive , part # E 13 , by 1 mm off the bottom.** I'll look into this as I progress further. I did shorten slightly the circular collar for the bottom of the camdrive , no more than .5mm to fit.
I did not like the cyano mess all over the parts and got a little po'ed at this, so I cleaned all of the parts , losing some more in the process and re-did the work using the glue shown. It seems to be a little better and thinning it down  I can wick it down behind the 'T' s :
(https://preview.ibb.co/fh5bXd/IMG_3720.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bUAX5y)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kzCOCd/IMG_3721.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ckOkQy)
   
 I waited a while and when the parts were secure but flexible I mounted the devilishly tricky little part :
(https://preview.ibb.co/npGuJJ/IMG_3722.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mnXC5y)
 Pretty evident what is at play to mount this all properly , I recommend the 'T' s get there little landings drilled:
(https://preview.ibb.co/bBDVsd/IMG_3724.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jmTKky)
Showing it all :
(https://preview.ibb.co/e7EgyJ/IMG_3723.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hgYwXd)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cTTkQy/IMG_3725.jpg) (https://ibb.co/isXC5y)

 Looks as if the glue has held, the parts are secure and inline. This is the way to go to me. The parts are fine , delicate and hard to handle , easily broken so the utmost care has to be taken right from the start. This is the first third of the work completed. The springs are to follow.

 Here is a set of templates realized from the research and help on this posting:
(https://image.ibb.co/eh0RZ7/templateprint.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
1) Layout guide for spring placement. This can be attached to the cylinder assy to layout the holes to be drilled to accept the springs.
2) Layout guide for spring spacing and mounting. These can be mounted on thin card , the centers drilled to accept the tops of the springs.
3) Layout guide for spring angle. These are used on the ends of the cylinder assy to align the springs to the correct 15 degree angle.

 Here are the templates in play.
 First template # 1:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kxmveH/IMG_3497.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mUMTzH)
Fits nicely with some cellotape on the end tabs.
Very lightly pricked:
(https://preview.ibb.co/d2QozH/IMG_3499.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iKmHtc)
Worked OK:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dyse6x/IMG_3500.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iED8zH)
Template # 3 taped to the end of the cylinder bank , the kit parting line and the top of the cylinder to orient. This allows you to see the angle of the drill as you do the work:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dr4FeH/IMG_3502.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mDcqDc)
Drilled for the springs:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fHuFeH/IMG_3503.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nqQMKH)

I will end this right here as I don't know how much more I can put on one post. This ends with the camshaft mounted and secure. And enough parts to finish the job. Next up will be part 2 , the springs.

Three other builds on this forum with these parts:
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=5786.0
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=9381.0
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=8284.msg153623#msg153623
Other forum build of note , superb engine work:
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235012686-wingnut-wings-132-aeg-giv-finished/

I'm sure there are others, these show the parts in play  , although not the whole procedure.

 I hope this is helping , its meant for guys who would struggle with the tiny parts and assy procedure.

 ** GO NOW TO PAGE 7 TO SEE THE CONTINUATION OF THE TAURUS WORK **


Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Michael Scarborough on April 06, 2018, 10:25:25 AM
Yo, Steve,

As for the unidentifiable parts, are you referring to the T-shaped bits??

Cheers from NYC,
Michael
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 06, 2018, 11:19:03 AM
Yo, Steve,

As for the unidentifiable parts, are you referring to the T-shaped bits??

Cheers from NYC,
Michael

Yes I can find no evidence of where they go , most guys drop them from the procedure.
I cant even see them in the pics of the engine!
I think I can see the post underneath the rocker arms but I cant even figure out what they do. They must have a movement function as they are in 2 sizes...
Good to have you here.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on April 06, 2018, 08:00:22 PM
Your cutting looks very precise. I will store your method away for future use.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Michael Scarborough on April 07, 2018, 12:13:33 AM
Steve-san,

Engines are not in my wheel house of knowledge so the Taurus parts were a mystery for me at first. Trial and error started to clear it up but then, bless him, Jeroen Veen sent me pix of his D IVa engine in process and, without those, I'd never have figured this out. (I'd post pix here but have forgotten how to do so on this site.) So let me try to explain it, with sincere apologies for my non-mechanical lingo.

So here are my findings....other's findings my be different, but this is what worked for me:

- First, I removed all evidence of the cast on springs. I then made four holes per cylinder head to accept the nipples on the bottom of the Taurus springs. Do not fill the remaining slots on top of the cylinders.

- As for the T shaped pieces, I found them CRUCIAL for getting the cam shaft height correct. They fit directly below the boxes projecting from the sides of the cam shaft, with the vertical section pointing down and the horizontal sections spanning the gap between the shaft boxes.

- The four longer T's fit into the two slots on top of the cylinder heads. This leaves all the remaining T's sitting on TOP of the cylinder heads and, thereby, determining the exact height needed for the cam shaft above the cylinder heads and the exact height needed for the lolly pop shaped kit piece that fits at the aft end of the whole assembly. This also determines the height for the rocker arms to sit on top of the valve springs.

- I followed Lukasz' directions for which valves were open/closed, and, put the springs in next. Then, I inserted the rocker arms. Now, I don't think of myself as a particularly ham-fisted model builder, but the process of trying to remove the rocker arms from from the casting block, without breaking them or sending half of them into orbit tested my skills and patience...and both were found lacking. And when one is successfully removed, trying to sand it to clean any remains of the block.....well, let's just say it took three sets of pieces until I got an engine I wanted to mount on my build. But, once done....oh, my...yes, Taurus parts are hard to work with and expensive but well worth it once you get the hang of dealing with them.

I hope this helps. It's going to be a great build!

Do me a favor and post a picture of a D. IVa engine with all these pieces discussed labeled so I'll know what the hell I'm talking about in the future! "Lolly Pop shaped piece", indeed....I sound like a real sucker.

Cheers from NYC,
Michael
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: PrzemoL on April 07, 2018, 06:42:25 AM
Let me add a few words on MercD.IVa engine with Taurus bits. I can confirm what Michael wrote.(It is great to have you here again, my friend!) I talked with Łukasz three weeks ago on it. The T-shaped bits are the bolts holding the camshaft to the cylinders block. The longer ones are indeed meant to fit the holes in the WNW kit part to align the entire system.
However I found another problem. The cam shaft length did not fit the cylinders, it was too long. Drilling the holes symmetrically on all cylinders led to the misalignment with the camshaft elements. I repeated the drilling process three times, had to fill the gaps twice until I got it all aligned in an acceptable way. Some cheating was necessary. You can see the miserable result of my work, additionally exposed by macro photography in my Rumpler build log.
Needless to say, I also followed the springs layout from Taurus instructions. I will have to live with this error.

BTW, great work on your Gotha, Krow.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 07, 2018, 07:13:37 AM
Przy ,Michael ; thanks.
 You and Michael have given me an answer to the ' T ' shaped parts that makes sense.
And yes the camshaft part is too long by just a very little , perhaps .5 mm , I figured I would average the difference and make it work.
 There was some contemplation last night , looking at the razor saw and the part , lemme tell ya!
Anyway I'll continue on with the work and continue adding to the previous posting.
Thank you.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Michael Scarborough on April 07, 2018, 10:15:08 AM
OK...I trust what Prze says (he's my hero, after all) but I will add that I found no problem with the length of the cam shaft. BUT, I will further add that my work may be a bit, how shall I put it......artistic.....that is to say, sloppy. Let me do a refresher in posting images and I will start a build log for my AEG.....which is actually just about finished. I think if we all put our heads together, we can get all the issues solved for future builds and builders. As Steve knows, I have a Gotha G.IV and a G.Vb waiting to be built and I want to be sure the engines are as right as they can be when I get to them.

Glad to be back.

Cheers from NYC,
Michael
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 08, 2018, 07:44:11 AM
Thanks Michael.
 And have a look back and see if I've done the camshaft assy properly, there is a gap there now , I think there is an issue...
(https://preview.ibb.co/eroTMc/IMG_3421.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hfZeSH)


P.S. The 'lollypop' you referred to is the housing for the cam drive, a series of bevel cut gears that drive off the crankshaft and drive the camshaft.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: PrzemoL on April 08, 2018, 07:48:09 AM
IMHO there should be no gap between the camshaft and the cylinders.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 08, 2018, 08:02:10 AM
IMHO there should be no gap between the camshaft and the cylinders.
I agree.
Going back to the a/m kits supplied rudimentary drawings the 'stands are flush with the bottom of the camshaft housing.
A slight trimming will be needed....!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on April 08, 2018, 10:55:26 AM
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8230/8518971379_6502e657d5_b.jpg)

Looks like light comes through to me.  YOu gotta have room for all of those push rods, springs, and retainers to work and move.

Gaz
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 08, 2018, 01:15:24 PM
Thanks Gaz.
There may be some discussion as to the white background on your pic , it looks 'inserted' into the picture. Obviously a lot of photoshopping going on with that pic too! Thanks for posting it!
Another from Umoter to support the gap theory:
(https://preview.ibb.co/if6ZNH/Bild_338drome.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fidQUx)
I  certainly will entertain any info that's relevant. It appears that the camshaft is a separate casting from the cylinders and heads , I can definitely believe that. From an engineering standpoint an air gap makes sense as the top of the head would pretty much be the hottest part of the engine, no need to transfer that heat to the cam.
Easy to check the camshaft height a number of ways.

'Robin , hand me the lollypop...'
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on April 08, 2018, 01:29:30 PM
Recently I built the Mercedes D.III engine by Master Details.  It also had a raised cam.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on April 09, 2018, 05:37:03 AM
I am sure you will figure out the answer of the gap with your continued research. It looks to me that there is a gap just seems a bit excessive on the model, or that could just be the angle of your photo.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 09, 2018, 02:16:24 PM
Gaz , RIII thanks muchly.
  Some answers , check back to the work one page back...
(https://preview.ibb.co/mOOwbc/IMG_3436.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ewr4Ux)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on April 09, 2018, 11:13:54 PM
Looking back I still see a gap but I will add again Not As Pronounced as the model. JMHO. I hope this is your conclusion also or I am really Bad at Photo Interpretation  :-\
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 10, 2018, 07:05:44 AM
 No worries Rick!
There IS a gap! I'll measure and record it but as to perfect accuracy well , we try.
Today brought what , hopefully , is the last of the Gotha palette colors :
(https://preview.ibb.co/imkTrc/IMG_3443.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cUPzxH)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on April 10, 2018, 08:23:37 AM
Nice collection of paints! DB I believe?
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Borsos on April 10, 2018, 05:19:53 PM
these paints are fantastic. You'll love them. I just get sad when I get drops of paint on the outside of the bottle ... They look so pretty...
Borsos
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on April 10, 2018, 11:45:39 PM
these paints are fantastic. You'll love them. I just get sad when I get drops of paint on the outside of the bottle ... They look so pretty...
Borsos

That is kind of funny to me as when I opened my RAF blue on Sturday I didn't realize that the bottle is so full that the paint spilled out generously, all over my hand and the bottle. My hand was blue for a few days.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 11, 2018, 12:40:11 AM
Thanks RIII and Borsos.
Yup , that there is yer Drooling Bulldog paint set.
I opted for the set as it only required a 10 year mortgage....
Good to know about their quantity and quality. I imagined I would use them to color match or add to colors.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 12, 2018, 02:49:17 AM
Easy enough to drill out and dress the 2 air supply holes at the front of the engine , as well as the location for the oil level sight glass . I'll be cutting some vinyl shapes to finish these off:
(https://preview.ibb.co/k9rnMc/IMG_3453.jpg) (https://ibb.co/np9JSH)
Also the first application from the HGW p/e set for this engine ,  looking at the set I see only a few parts to use , this ring  which needs to be detailed itself , is one of them:
(https://preview.ibb.co/bW6ySH/IMG_3454.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gHbbEx)
 A note on this p/e ring. The bolt representation is very shallow , I'll be adding more p/e to this p/e for the hardware. The ring fits ok, shave the two sides of the crankcase assy where they join and the ring will slip right on. The bolt pattern is a little off , rotate the ring until you get the top bolts lined up , hopefully the out of line one or two wont be too visible on th bottom. I think it would have been just as easy to get the bolt pattern to match as not match.
Sometimes the rush to a/m can be problematic for model builders.


















Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 13, 2018, 11:25:50 AM
Small , I mean small , shapes cut for the re-enforcing ring around the air vents , and the retaining ring for the oil level sight glass. Cut out of hi-po black vinyl:
(https://preview.ibb.co/mnYwXS/IMG_3455.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dCJ8e7)
 Took way longer than usual and getting some funky cuts, then I noticed the plotter carriage head was off kilter a little, left over from the last material jam. My Ioline is over 15 years old and has never given me trouble unless I manufacture the trouble for myself.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 14, 2018, 07:03:48 AM
Check page 3 for the use of this:
(https://image.ibb.co/eh0RZ7/templateprint.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I put a lotta work into this , I cant do any more at this point but this is a stopping point I can come back to.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on April 14, 2018, 10:16:21 PM
Steve,
The small details and research you are putting into the engines will surely pay dividends in the final product! Well done.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Borsos on April 15, 2018, 01:55:54 AM
Great progress. You‘ve got an eye for every detail.
Borsos
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 15, 2018, 04:32:22 AM
Thanks Rick and Borsos.

 I'll leave this for a while. I had no intention of going into the engine work and you can see how it consumes me when I get started. Just my way and the way I was taught to approach work.
Last night I finished the mask set for the mid-lower wing part , part number B1 , the walkways and in betweens , and the openings in the underneath of the wing for the interior bombs to fall through.
(https://image.ibb.co/hANZp7/lwing.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

 And a shout out to Lukasz at Taurus , he is going to send me some replacement parts for the valve train set. I also ordered some more Taurus bits , the vents , ammo and a few other sets for the future.

Thanks for lookin' , thanks for commenting , and when I return we will be , hopefully , into some paint work.
Later.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: gbrivio on April 15, 2018, 03:29:11 PM
Here is another outstanding work I missed till now. Remarkably good research and application, and your engine will be a real beauty along with the entire plane.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 16, 2018, 11:46:48 AM
Thanks Giuseppe
oops wrong forum.....
(https://preview.ibb.co/fG5rnS/IMG_3471.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXKvE7)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 29, 2018, 02:27:18 PM
 I just could not have the ring of holes in the front of my Gotha.
And lamenting the lack of info and detail and photo evidence and every thing else , I'm starting to overlook some of the available pics.
 Page 47 of Gotha! the lower right pic shows the details of one of the ways that the gun ring was re-enforced to hold the Becker. The lower left also shows some additional parts to support the cannon.
Here they are cut from vinyl and applied, first the surrounding band:
(https://preview.ibb.co/bMcxmx/IMG_3505.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jo9otc)
(https://preview.ibb.co/csF6eH/IMG_3506.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h9bZYc)
Then the small rectangles applied:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cKQiRx/IMG_3516.jpg) (https://ibb.co/irC8tc)
  The vinyl is very thin and tested the limits of my cutter. I still have to apply some hardware to the vertical rectangles.
I feel better now as I knew I would have to do this and I'm glad to get it done.
The order from Taurus should be here any time, I''ll then get on with finishing the engine valve train work on page 3. Worth a look as I've been adding to the post , keeping the progress and info in one place.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on April 30, 2018, 07:07:17 PM
I never thought of using my Silhouette machine to make details...
 
very nice idea!

Gaz
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on April 30, 2018, 11:15:02 PM
Your attention to detail is outstanding! Love your work.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 01, 2018, 12:13:53 AM
I never thought of using my Silhouette machine to make details...
 
very nice idea!

Gaz


Lol
 Thanks Gaz and Rick!
Gaz if you wanna practise , the vertical rectangles are 1mm x 2mm.....
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Umlaufmotor on May 01, 2018, 03:39:04 AM
Very nice built - I love these many small details.

Servus
Bertl
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 01, 2018, 01:14:29 PM
Thanks Bertl!
Your presence is appreciated and even more so as I move into the engine section of building, I have all of the pics you have supplied here and on the Aerodrome forum.
I recently met an elderly gent on the  island, he supplies me with cedar for my signwork. I asked him to translate the 2 pics in R.R.'s Gotha build book of the engines . He has done that and also told me he has been in contact with a freind of his in Germany who has worked for Bosch for his entire life! They are both in their late 70's and over the moon about my Gotha model. I will be able to get some primary  wiring info on the mags for the Mercedes DIVa engines.

 And yes the vinyl cutter has some very good use's , adding details and replaceing details.
Here is my 30" Ioline cutter , heartily recommended as it is over 15 years old and in great shape:
(https://preview.ibb.co/mNToUS/IMG_3519.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mFkrin)


Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 04, 2018, 01:48:58 PM
And asked and answered on 2 forums for a cross section of input , the small panel that is better off being sanded away during the fuse joining , replaced with cut vinyl :
(https://preview.ibb.co/fF5KPS/IMG_3524.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gXFxB7)
The panel dimensions were:
15.4 mm w x 11.2 mm l (front to back ) and is from .3 mm vinyl mask.
The panel is located .5 mm ahead of the wing leading edge , and directly on the fuse seam, the reason it goes!
On page 49 of Gotha! there is a photo. It appears to show the panel removed.
More fuse detail parts get installed:
(https://preview.ibb.co/bHowr7/IMG_3527.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fG0nyn)
And losing part number A57 had me plunge mould its counterpart :
(https://preview.ibb.co/kYCBPS/IMG_3529.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n6okjS)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 06, 2018, 12:48:32 AM
Part number B3 for LVG built Gotha's , is a small fairing at the rear of the right side of the lower wing. Working from underneath I didn't realize that the location holes are out of line , soooo:
(https://preview.ibb.co/j4cBPS/IMG_3528.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bTNNW7)

 I thought the fit was a little 'loose' so examining the other side , part # B2 ,improperly marked as B3 in the instructions , I saw things were out of line. I was able to pry the part off and reinstall correctly:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fkeuB7/IMG_3534.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e645Jn)
Looks like fitting the lower wing will need to be checked... pretty minor in the scale of things but will need to be addressed if an LVG Gotha is being built.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 10, 2018, 11:32:12 AM
With a little fettling the wing settles in:
(https://preview.ibb.co/gmWody/IMG_3558.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e6CGWJ)
And losing parts means more work.
In this case I filled the bomb hanger mounts and will fab some up from something , metal perhaps:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dz6tBJ/IMG_3550.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iFSN5d)
Cleaned:
(https://preview.ibb.co/m0h0rJ/IMG_3556.jpg) (https://ibb.co/byrtBJ)
 Again - if I wish to have a different bomb loadout , the two pics on page 47 of Gotha bear out the fact that not all Gothas had these bomb hanger mounts.
Sleeping on this and looking at all of my references I've decided to leave the front bomb racks off. They were removed from a lot of the G IV's as I see it . I will most likely do the front landing gear and the bomb rack would have fouled the bombs dropping.
 I was planning on turning some 300 kg bombs and maybe using 2 of those in the under wing rack.
Thanks for looking.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 18, 2018, 07:07:05 AM
Back in business.
With a large shout out to Lukasz at Taurus for the order , including some replacement D IV parts:
(https://preview.ibb.co/b8Dv6J/IMG_3579.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bGwtty)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dTsYty/IMG_3578.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iqDHLd)
Having a few weeks to reflect on the engine set , I have thought of a way to go about the beginning of the work without losing any parts.
Page three has the engine set work. I believe I can finish it up to a satisfactory degree.
Starting soon....
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on May 18, 2018, 07:39:46 AM
The wing fit looks perfect , Nicely done. I am looking forward to seeing the engine work!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 19, 2018, 01:58:01 AM
Thank you , RAGIII
 I am working on the Taurus set for the camshaft and springs and have been adding to the relevant post on page three of this thread. I'm trying to keep it all on one page to show the progression smoothly. Today I added a section on cutting the parts off the sprues without damaging or losing them.
Thanks for looking.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 22, 2018, 07:58:28 AM
Finally some colors.
The under colors for the plywood decals:
(https://preview.ibb.co/nhbDGT/IMG_3649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f857bT)
Metal colors for the engine nacelle parts:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cuQ1mT/IMG_3648.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jNxst8)
Everything cleared with 50/50 IPA and Future.
And ya gotta love these decals:
(https://preview.ibb.co/jiyAD8/IMG_3655.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dScgLo)
It will be a pity to paint over most of that and simulate traffic in the area.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on May 23, 2018, 01:10:59 AM
Outstanding prep painting and painting in general.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on May 23, 2018, 05:15:45 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 23, 2018, 12:13:12 PM
Thanks Gaz and RIII.
Splitting time between the paint shop and fab bench.
Engine work ongoing with the advent of the 'blank' engine getting assy:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cLoxvo/IMG_3656.jpg) (https://ibb.co/knLo1T)

 And this THING everytime I try to fit it or even look at it one or two of the stands flys off , I cant wait to get this solved and on the engine:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dybT1T/IMG_3657.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eNU4ao)
Its slathered in ca and kicker , fitted for the umpteenth time , so maybe I can put that to bed in the near future.

 Page three's work log for this set has grown and shows excellent progression and info if you are interested in attempting this set.

And the final work for today. I  blew in some gloss black , very finely building up the faded edge. After that some distressing , then some Smoke wafted on , and final 50/50 mix to seal:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cb8d38/IMG_3671.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jBNSwT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/h9O0GT/IMG_3669.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fU4UAo)

 I may go back in for another layer , but for now it will do. Some pigments will finish it off nicely.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Ssasho0 on May 23, 2018, 06:22:18 PM
It looks great, and it really is plywood there, no idea why WEnW put stitching on it. I will probaby have to remove it, but too lazy at the moment :(
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 23, 2018, 10:54:25 PM
Thanks Ssashoo.

 On page 22 of your instructions there is a pic , and WNW states it shows the fabric covering and the rib tape. So check your references for the model you are building.
I'm going with it as plywood as there are numerous pics of LVG Gothas with it clearly shown as plywood uncovered.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 25, 2018, 04:36:00 AM
Pounding into the wing work I applied my mask to great effect:
(https://preview.ibb.co/gUuwao/IMG_3673.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b5pUvo)
This mask allows the user to go both ways , you can mask the walkways or mask the wing to suit the paintwork.
Low tack application tape for vinyl graphics serves to cover the decal portion:
(https://preview.ibb.co/c0hcgT/IMG_3675.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kqNM88)
A quick , thin layer of white , then some Pollyscale stainless:
(https://preview.ibb.co/j3XA1T/IMG_3679.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eYTTo8)
Expeditious mask material removal is a given, never leave masking on:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fEuOMT/IMG_3685.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kbF8o8)
Some minor over spray in a few areas wont matter with wash's and drybrushing to go. The test here was mostly to see if the sdecals will withstand the mask application and removel , and they came through well enough to be able to think in terms of masking over decals.
The whole masking of the walkway strips and paint application took no less than 1/2 an hour with no pitfalls for the whole procedure ,  , so this mask has proven its worth.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on May 25, 2018, 09:05:33 AM
That looks great!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 25, 2018, 01:03:46 PM
Thanks Gaz!
 Here are the gas tanks after some fun today with about 7-8 procedures run on them:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kYMqLo/IMG_3696.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n6wPfo)
And after the final drybrush:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ggcVLo/IMG_3701.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b3rqLo)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Manni on May 25, 2018, 02:27:55 PM
Great. The gas tanks look very cool. I love the weathering. The patina looks extremly realistic.
Bye,
Manni
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on May 25, 2018, 09:27:10 PM
Simply outstanding work on the worn wood wing area and the tanks are fantastic!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 26, 2018, 03:08:18 AM
Manni , RIII - Thank you.
 Back to the wing some black and Paynes grey wash' were ran into the edges and tops respectively:
(https://preview.ibb.co/jMSrbT/IMG_3705.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mu2PwT)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: gbrivio on May 26, 2018, 06:18:29 AM
Great updates, I like all the paint job.
Giuseppe
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 28, 2018, 11:58:15 AM
Thank you Giuseppe...
The struggle is real!
 The Taurus engine set is testing my skills and patience . Crusty blobs of unworkable cyano are not what I need on my model. Nothing seems to stick to the flexible resin supplied. There are no where near enough parts included in the kit. As parts are removed the attrition rate is pretty much 50% .Some of the rocker arms broke as soon as I touched them with the razor saw! I removed all of the stands and removed the caked on cyano , most of it falling off , and glued them all again with a pva glue.
See page three for the ongoing saga.....
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on May 28, 2018, 09:29:22 PM
I feel your pain with the engines. On the plus side those worn areas look more awesome with each update!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on May 29, 2018, 06:50:46 PM
The painting looks very nice indeed.  Sorry to hear about the engines.  I have a love/hate relationship with CA.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on May 31, 2018, 02:09:42 AM
Thanks you guys!
I'm contemplating replacing the valve springs at the moment. I'll have a look at the parts I have but I don't think they will make the cut. Adhesion problems have been sorted with the use of Weldbond PVA glue. Attaching with full-strength and then wicking in thinned down glue  until I was satisfied worked well:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cuEy2d/IMG_3732.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iL27vy)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bLCJ2d/IMG_3733.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hjHkhd)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gEGp8J/IMG_3734.jpg) (https://ibb.co/evNU8J)
All the parts shown are very well attached and show very little if any glue marks.

Again page three has the whole story to date.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on May 31, 2018, 06:27:42 PM
Looks fab!

I might have to reconsider using PVA for certain things.  I seem to have trouble getting CA to do what I want it to very, very often.

GAz
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on May 31, 2018, 09:14:16 PM
I am glad to see you have your Resin Engine issues sorted out. Really looking forward to the next updates on this beauty!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 01, 2018, 02:21:32 AM
Thanks Gaz!
 I recommend the Weldbond shown , or Formula 560 a purpose produced PVA for canopies.
RIII Thank you.
The resin engine bits job is only a third done , camshaft in place. Springs next , then the rocker arms.
Solving the attachment issue was a great step forward. The PVA sucks into the parts , rather than occluding and crusting up into a mess of pustulous caked on cyano. , that wont hold diddeley in place.

My little island is beginning to get the summers visitors so work here will become sporadic again , bear with me...
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 04, 2018, 02:01:09 PM
 ** CONTINUATION OF  THE TAURUS PROCEDURES FROM PAGE 3 **
 
 Springs.
 The springs are in two lengths , these must be matched for height. After removal start matching up sets of springs. I cut off the post and tried to be accurate. when I sorted the springs I tried to match set lengths. I can see that there will be gnashing of the teeth:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cctiTT/IMG_3743.jpg) (https://ibb.co/htECNo)
You can see the length diff in the two pairs at the bottom.
 My little paper valve angle template was applied and the engine clamped to have it vertically oriented:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fPoTv8/IMG_3746.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hwP1F8)
 Now for a final set matching...
 
 And right out of the gate things dont line up:
(https://preview.ibb.co/eneU2o/IMG_3749.jpg) (https://ibb.co/czd08T)
The springs look good on their landings , but the centerline of the rocker arm space is out, the 'T' shows the amount. The price for mounting the camshaft backwards and concentrating too much on the 'T's.
Prolly cant see it in the pics , but I held some thin flat bar between the camshaft box's and its easy to see the misalignment. So I'll soak the parts apart and try again.
(https://preview.ibb.co/dEURF8/IMG_3752.jpg) (https://ibb.co/isG6F8)

 So.
 I tore off the camshaft , it peeled off without breaking or losing any of the 'T's . I take that as a signal that things are turning around.
 The camshaft was turned end for end and the holes for the longer 'T's were drilled deeper , the whole assy went on properly without any fuss, a little adjusting to make sure everything was in line and a strip of paper folded in half was used to check the alignment and centering of the rocker arms to the respective ports:
(https://preview.ibb.co/gnGxk8/IMG_3760.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hLrV58)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dfmxk8/IMG_3759.jpg) (https://ibb.co/i4qOQ8)
A final wicking in of the 50/50 water /Weldbond PVA and you can see the web around the bottom of the 'T's that will capillary in and secure the parts finally:
(https://preview.ibb.co/eLcgCo/IMG_3762.jpg) (https://ibb.co/epkq58)

 I think with patience , parts prep , proper adhesive choice , some rudimentary templates and an understanding of the layout of the parts is what is required for this set. I'll get set up for the springs again and see if I can get a row on.
Template on:
(https://preview.ibb.co/c9FHUd/IMG_3771.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gPt49d)
 A row of springs was applied. The template allowed an end view to be realized , with the top of the 15degree angle line visible and nice for lining up. After this a strip of business card was put in place:
(https://preview.ibb.co/hiZcUd/IMG_3774.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ff6D2y)
This put an edge and a space behind the springs for alignmnent, another srtip of card was used ,very carefully to tease the springs into a line:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dCkHUd/IMG_3772.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jiYhvJ)
Keep the card edges parallel and in line with the engine top.
 Th glue was used full strength and allowed alignment to take place , if the capillary action of the glue drying , or shrinking , pulls the springs outta line , we'll see.
 A word on the springs.
Soft , crumbly ,all diff lengths. no matter how careful intitial cutting is, they will need to be matched in pairs. Matching is NOT to be avoided or left out. I couldnt tell which was top or bottom , there is little visual diff between the top and bottom. I chose to use the cast in round plate as the bottom , for a better bond . I lost a compressed spring , I was wary of this with NO SPARES , I did the exhaust side first for this reason. I should be able to fabricate a replacement spring , when it flew off I was very close to just making my own springs but decided to forge ahead with the set.
 Last pic of the work today:
(https://preview.ibb.co/h63nUd/IMG_3776.jpg) (https://ibb.co/icveaJ)
Maybe not.
POed at losing the spring , a sheet of transfer tape was used to grab anything that was on the floor , found the spring.
And re-visiting the alignment issue a couple of strips of business card were used to great effect .One inserted and angled to suit the template at the front and another was used to help align the angle:
(https://preview.ibb.co/nktMpd/IMG_3782.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jv8Ahy)
(https://preview.ibb.co/j6sgpd/IMG_3783.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cdLqhy)
I felt slightly better after this.
I'll take it.
The springs are matched and all in a line:
(https://preview.ibb.co/nh48ny/IMG_3788.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k2mcfJ)
Part 3 The Rocker Arms next.
 And my word as good as gold , here is a rocker arm placed to check the fit and whether the springs are in the right place. I stated that the job had turned around , or went in a better direction , when I unbackwardized the camshaft and that statement is ringing true as the rocker looks perfect to me , nice and straight and nicely on top of the springs:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fHOJeo/IMG_3840.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ec5mX8)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fWHdeo/IMG_3835.jpg) (https://ibb.co/i6btC8)
(https://preview.ibb.co/f6RtC8/IMG_3841.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cHgh5T)
(https://preview.ibb.co/h92uKo/IMG_3842.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ctfQQT)
 A word about the rocker arms , branch rockers they are called because of the 2 spring contact points .
They are  the most fragile parts of the set - the part that sits between the boxes will break off with little pressure .If you drop one DO NOT attempt to pick it up by hand , I broke a few that way before cluing in . Tweezer handling only , cleanup is a chore ,even more than usual , I cannot emphasize enough the careful handling these parts need.
And finally a side of valve train has been completed. To the end the struggle was real , the rocker arm that goes between the camshaft boxes were too wide. Any manipulation of the arm results in breaking it off. I recommend checking this and opening up the space between the camshaft housings to allow the arm to drop in. Then a drop of 50/50 water /pva to start in between the boxes and that should hold it while you manipulate the springs and the contact points to line up. The springs still have some movement , and allow a small amount of adjustment. They look good when its all straight and in line:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dL7XAT/IMG_3860.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPO5VT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ebLkVT/IMG_3859.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gZouPo)


And I'll leave it at that.


 To show timeline and the amount of time needed for these operations , I just did alla the intake springs in 40 minutes:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ndwFQT/IMG_3843.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hc1h5T)

The fun never stops. Rocker arms come 8 on a sprue. I started with a full sprue. Only ONE rocker made it with the arm attached. There are multiple ways to break the part and attrition in the learning curve is horrendous. Heres the last side of valve train, I glued the broken rocker part on the tops of the springs , hopefully I can get the broken off arms in place after the glue sets for a while:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ndmFjo/IMG_3871.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k5BgPo)
 So I did wait and the glue is fantastic -  holding the parts and allowing movement and alignment. I think this is the key to getting this set done. So here it is , I fitted the broken off arms as best as I could , aligned the springs a few times and got them all lined up nice. The rocker arms as well lined up as this is the only way this set will look good , everything has to be in line:
(https://preview.ibb.co/jf2cx8/IMG_3875.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cbeeAT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jsSSx8/IMG_3877.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bHDd4o)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mwQxx8/IMG_3879.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cpaajo)

 I have also gone in wicking the 50/50 mix into alla the little contact points , this glue is perfect , it sucks into the joints pulling them together , just perfect. So procedure for gluing was use a small amount of full strength glue to contacy and hold , wait a few minutes to allow adhesion , then manipulate the parts according to visual cues and the templates and alignment guides, a good press on the parts to set them and then after 10 minutes or so start to wick in the thinned mixture to get the final bond.

So using simple visual templates and some simple strips of business card to space and align the springs ,and glue that will allow some movement is key as well ,  things just got way better for the use of this set. I hope someone wants to give this a shot , as peer validation is the best proof of worth , let me know.

  ** TAURUS PROCEDURES CONCLUDED , HAVE A NICE DAY **






Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 18, 2018, 02:17:23 AM
  While the glue dries.
 A list of additions to the engine quickly ran up to 30 plus . Many of these are lines , wires etc. I like to pin the lines , so drilling for a pin starts with a tiny pin prick then starting with a .2 mm drill and working up to a .5 in some case'. Holes are cleared and dressed with a quickly spinning , lightly applied .9 mm drill. All operations by finger tip. Drills from DU on this forum.
 Here are the parts drilled for pinning the hot water feed to the carb and the return to the pump:
(https://preview.ibb.co/jLP17y/IMG_3796.jpg) (https://ibb.co/krGsEd)
...and the HV wire tube ends:
(https://preview.ibb.co/hNLDLJ/IMG_3793.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gqkf0J)
 Leaving the parts on the sprue has its advantages while work is completed. Sprue can be sectioned away for access too.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on June 18, 2018, 03:06:58 AM
Your trials with the engine seem to be a real PITA! It looks as though you have things in hand now! Looking forward to the end result.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 18, 2018, 04:27:15 AM
RIII -Thank you.
 With a little time on my hands and curious as to whether the part would take the perforation , I went on with the HV wire tubes. And they will take the abuse!

 The same procedure was used for the drilling. The part did fracture but applications of plastic cement joined and smoothed the part. Do all of the seam work , thin out the brackets before drilling and handling the part post perforation wont be nessecary. Five holes in the top tube and six in the bottom , and the ends drilled out , smoothing and scraping all told took just over an hour working steadily.
 Nice to be able to use the kit parts;
(https://preview.ibb.co/gR7maJ/IMG_3802.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f1EA2y)


Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on June 18, 2018, 05:17:49 AM
Steve,
    I found the same however I used "Mono" for the wires and found it too stiff and uncontrollable so had to step back and scratch the tubes from brass tube. Thinking back I think I'll use Modelkasten in future, what are you planning to use?
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 18, 2018, 05:45:57 AM
 Thank you Lance.
 I remember asking about the wires you mention.
I'll most likely scour this forum and steal someone else's method !
 
  Most of the wires I have referenced through phorto's only look  to be a simple wire with a thin insulate. Some pics suggest a texture , like some one manually wrapped the wire with linen or some other organic material  ,as plastic was not in existance yet.
 HV requires a heavy guage stranded wire I just measured some at 1.75 mm at 1/32 scale thats .055 mm . The plug end looks like a simple ring terminal.
 So I thought a single strand of copper wire with a loop in the plug end and some thick primer brushed on the show the insulate,
 A nice easy one and with all of the work to come I'll prolly take it.
 
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on June 18, 2018, 06:59:17 AM
Wow, that is some fine work!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 18, 2018, 12:01:50 PM
Thanks Gaz!
 And a little heavy work to balance out the effort:
(https://preview.ibb.co/iS3zed/IMG_3805.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bzW7Xy)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iBvO5J/IMG_3807.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g7Tzed)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Manni on June 18, 2018, 02:49:22 PM
Great wok, Steve. As said before, I like the patina on the tank a lot.
Manni
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 19, 2018, 03:02:34 AM
 Manni -Thank you
 And it looks as if a lot of it will be visible on the exposed engine side.
I did go ahead and install the engine bearers, they were in a yellow color , I sanded that and put them in place , they fit perfect:
(https://preview.ibb.co/nM2x0J/IMG_3813.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nDKzEd)
(https://preview.ibb.co/i6smud/IMG_3811.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fPpXZd)
 I have seen pics of the bearers in a light color , I think Oak wold have been a good choice for these load bearing parts. They will be painted in situ as recommended by R.R.'s book as well as numerous build logs.
Engines plopped in for a big thrill:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kxLmSy/IMG_3823.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ciV9fJ)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iym70J/IMG_3817.jpg) (https://ibb.co/iMv0LJ)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on June 19, 2018, 07:08:39 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on June 19, 2018, 07:10:53 AM
Those engines are going to look Brilliant once they are painted. The mounting looks excellent!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: andonio64 on June 19, 2018, 05:10:30 PM
Steve, I am delighted by your work, can't wait seeing it coming all together!
I love the way you render worn / dirty metal ...

Antonio
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 21, 2018, 03:46:05 AM
Gaz,
RIII,
Antonio - Thanks to all of you.

 No fresh pic , sorry.
I'm contemplating the final assy of the Taurus bits , one set of springs and the rocker arms to go. So I will be going back and adding to the respective posts.
The valve train work beginning on a post on page 3 and the second chapter on page 7.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on June 21, 2018, 04:01:40 AM
Steve,
    Great research and work, and I wish I'd been more attentive earlier; I have the Jane's book you reference, and yes, a lot of answers are right there! I'm writing it off to old age and a Homer Simpson moment or two........ Doh!!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: gbrivio on June 21, 2018, 04:58:07 AM
Proceeding very well, I look forward to see the completed area.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Borsos on June 21, 2018, 07:39:12 AM
Very nice! I love the metal aereas.
Borsos
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 21, 2018, 08:27:12 AM
Thanks Hom , er , Lance.  , Borsos , Guiseppe.
Yes Lance the Janes book has allowed me to make 30 or so observations that will lead to detail additions to the engine , that number is diminished already with some of the work done. Also the work on page 3 ( Taurus Trials) here has grown over the last few months as I add to the posting , the same with part 2 on page 7 (more Taurus Trials ) here. So my work was being done while you were finishing your engines and indeed the whole model. I am waiting for a time when I can really have a good look at your finished AEG. Already my AEG kit is giving up a part for The Gotha.
 I am gleaning a lot of info on the engines and their systems from the AEG kit .
So frustrating to have to guess at some of the systems and their workings and equipment . I'll do my best on The Gotha , but there will be a few items , like hose' and lines etc that will be imagineered.
Fair warning!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Gisbod on June 22, 2018, 02:02:13 AM
Great work Steve!

I always struggle with the ignition wiring... will be watching

Guy
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 24, 2018, 03:35:19 PM
Thank Gisbod.

 Here is a completed valve train ,exhaust side , of the engine:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dL7XAT/IMG_3860.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPO5VT)


 I'll take this.
The items are all in a line ,all in a row , the rockers are in good position and its all stuck together.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on June 24, 2018, 04:08:41 PM
Looks great, Steve!   Really wish kits came with all of that detail in the box.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 25, 2018, 02:18:58 AM
Thanks Gaz.
And careful what you wish for!
(https://preview.ibb.co/ebLkVT/IMG_3859.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gZouPo)
After sleeping on the valve train work I'm still happy with it and would do a few things slightly differently. Looking at pics of exposed rocker/valve engines not all of the valves are completely open or closed , some are half open or closed depending on your outlook in life. So I would recommend when matching the spring heights , to make some shrter and some longer for a really different top end look.
Thanks for the views.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on June 25, 2018, 06:00:12 AM
Still looking awesome. I seem to remember that the Taurus springs and valve lifters that were designed for the Mercedes had different length springs included along with a diagram of the firing order. Would make your life easier if this was included for your engine  8)
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 25, 2018, 07:09:36 AM
Thanks RIII
 And you can read all about the springs and the entire set on this ( The Gotha) thread.
Page 3 is where it starts and page 7 has the last part ,I deal with all of the probs and point out some probs on the instructions.
Here are my templates for installing the set:
(https://image.ibb.co/eh0RZ7/templateprint.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
And here is  a new valve position guide  and the explanation why a new one is needed is on page 3.
(https://image.ibb.co/meEhRc/valves.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Plan view:
(https://preview.ibb.co/mwQxx8/IMG_3879.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cpaajo)

  ** RATHER THAN SPREAD THE WORK OUT OVER A MONTH OF PAGES i'VE GONE BACK AND ADDED TO THE ORIGINAL POSTINGS ON PAGE 3 AND PAGE 7 **
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Dave in Dubai on June 25, 2018, 11:24:03 PM
Steve-are you going to replace the kit oil filler ports on the crankcase with Taurus ports too?
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 26, 2018, 12:01:09 AM
Thanks Dave.
Yes the vent set will be added as well. They will need to be pinned and will get in the way of the 30+ other additions so they will be near to the end of the engine work.
 Today I made a mix of metallic acrylic colors , some thinner , some laquer thinner , some of the glue used for the parts , a really thin mix , to go in the parts and begin the coloring:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ioYAH8/IMG_3886.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hY7Fjo)
Brushed in , very thinned , a light coat , one rocker came free but was glued back with the paint , just looking for a thin glue based coloring:
(https://preview.ibb.co/m1bKAT/IMG_3888.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jLJo4o)
(https://preview.ibb.co/jFVJ4o/IMG_3885.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gvtGqT)
The PVA mix takes a few days to fully cure , this is to our advantage as it allows minute adjustments to get everything even more in line, so I'll leave this for a day or so , adding more paint as the layers dry.
I'll be doing the engine colors in a diff way. No silver crankcase , as aluminum , especially early alloys , were very light in color , after beadblasting the color is almost white with grey tones. Should be fun!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Dave in Dubai on June 26, 2018, 08:12:42 PM
Hi Steve,

I found that the oil filler ports are easily glued onto the crankcase, without need for pinning.

You just have to remove the kit moulded representations carefully using a dental burr.

If you drill a 1mm recess at the base of the removed material, the location is perfect to just drop in the replacement ports.

Here they are on my Rumpler engine....

(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fqc0p_cjwE4/Ww1hiImEbzI/AAAAAAAAa5k/Tf-Nk1e9zZMwPO5Oux9Fg7aCSlgfor4UwCHMYBhgL/s2048-no/FullSizeRender.jpg)

The front port was better than the rear port, as it was the second attempt, but still acceptable enough.
The exhaust is the Rexx replacement, lightly misted over with Mr Metalcolor Dark Iron 214. The exhaust pipe looks like the heat discoloured examples I have seen as aircraft exhausts do not rust.

Edit:spelling correction ::)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 27, 2018, 01:03:37 AM
Thanks Dave. Your engine looks good.
 My procedures begin with removal and drilling.
I drill so I know something goes there! Working on 30 plus engine detail parts and procedures.
I have your AEG marked as well on my page 3 as examples of DIV engine work.
I'll be referencing a lot of threads , and scouring pics  for the engine work as I add parts.
I'll also identify as many of the engine systems parts as I go as well. I already stole an AEG part , 'the greaser'.

 And today begins with the drilling and removal.
I lopped off the breather posts with a number 10 from underneath and sanded the engine case , the first of some striations to be added to the cast  case surface. Also the engine mounting bolt wells and plug holes were drilled out to accept the resin accy set:
(https://preview.ibb.co/nA0zC8/IMG_3898.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mcPRs8)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on June 27, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
With paint, that engine looks awesome.  If my vision was as good as your photos, I think I would be compelled to try to make every engine look as good.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 28, 2018, 01:06:35 AM
Thanks Gaz.
 Engine work , after a ton of thought , begins with the installation of the water pump and air pump. These have both been pre- drilled for the lines to come, the air pump got 3 holes:
(https://preview.ibb.co/b6MF5T/IMG_3902.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m0UPzo)
The water pump , none until lines are fabbed up  and openings identified , the 'greaser' will be in play in this area as well:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dVsNkT/IMG_3904.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mLY6C8)
 
 And seeing a lot of the fabric decals being used for detailing parts , I used it fro the linen strip on the ammo drums, here I use it to good effect on the intake manifold to re-create the insulating asbestos material.
HGW' s Fabric Texture , Base white , 532050.
Blacked out and textured somewhat with acrylic:
(https://preview.ibb.co/jMQxKo/IMG_3909.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cmA8QT)
 Then wrapped in HGW's linen decal , strips cut from the sheet amounted to around 40" (!) in length to wrap the part:
(https://preview.ibb.co/m3G4zo/IMG_3912.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bPZreo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iF3TQT/IMG_3913.jpg) (https://ibb.co/niOTQT)
Not an easy or quick job , but I think it looks ok. Wrapping last night took 2 hours , and  applications of Mark-Fit were constant. This morning it looked pretty crappy , so I got out the most volatile of decal setting solutions , The Solvaset ,  liberal soaking , a cup of coffee , and pressing the decals home with my fingers worked out splendidly.
Thanks for looking.


'
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on June 28, 2018, 08:20:50 AM
Your detailing is amazing! The idea of using the linen decals for the wrapping is excellent, something I will have to try!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Ssasho0 on June 29, 2018, 12:51:27 AM
I like the linen decal idea and I have some Aviattic linen leftovers so I can try it too :). It is looking a bit flat and glossy, but I suppose in reality it looks better and with some stains and smoke and things will looks liek the real thing!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 29, 2018, 12:58:31 AM
RIII , & Sashoo.
 You are right it is glossy and unrealistic in its primary state.
Here it is with an application of Tamiya panel liner:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kkYq78/IMG_3919.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cRjxn8)
Extremely subtle effect.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on June 29, 2018, 01:31:51 AM
The wrapping looks perfect now! Just the right amount of dirtying up!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on June 29, 2018, 01:05:52 PM
Wow...linen decal look great.  I hafta get some.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Manni on June 29, 2018, 02:16:47 PM
Perfect result, Steve! I did my wrapping with Kabiki-tape but the decal method looks much more realistic.
Bye,
Manni
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Gisbod on June 29, 2018, 03:18:53 PM
Thinking outside the box!

Nice

Guy
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on June 30, 2018, 10:03:35 AM
Rick , Manni , Gaz , & Gis - Thanks but its not drybrushed yet!
Wait for it...
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 01, 2018, 08:21:46 AM
I spotted the chance for some more detail , specifically the collar at the joint of the manifold to the carb. Cut the 2 apart and fabbed up a collar and used a p/e washer for the collar nut:
(https://preview.ibb.co/gXWXbd/IMG_3921.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dwTZpy)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mOi62J/IMG_3923.jpg) (https://ibb.co/efkKNJ)
Throttle control hardware has been removed from the carb face as well.

 The collar nut should have holes ringing the exterior , just too small to render.
I'm also working through a number of the lines , air , oil , etc....today.
As stated ; fittings from RB Motion are selected and the main oil drain from the front of the cam casing , and one of the lines from the air pump:
(https://preview.ibb.co/bC1jNJ/IMG_3924.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ikXr2J)
These are the ones in the p/e set ad are far from singularly dimensional.

And looking very nice with the addition of a valve of sorts, it separates excess oil from the air supplied by the pump:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fzMZNJ/IMG_3928.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dK33Gd)
The lines are just sitting there adding the fittings and after securing them, a final alignment and clamp to be installed
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on July 01, 2018, 10:22:01 PM
Some nice detail!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 03, 2018, 02:47:54 AM
Thanks Gaz!
 Engine detailing continues with a lot to do , the oil separation cannister gets a strap and rivet detail , as well as a drain bolt. 4 Grandt Line bolt/washers were dropped into the engine mounting bolt wells and a tach drive cable mount and 90 were attached to the rear of the camshaft , directly behind the over compress lever:
(https://preview.ibb.co/j9GnCJ/IMG_3936.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mLR9Rd)
(https://preview.ibb.co/iyGXey/IMG_3933.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ft5Qzy)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 03, 2018, 03:38:08 AM
  And the repetitive question ,asked soooo many times , asked about HV spark plug line...
 FWIW here is my take:
Prym: Too big wrong cross section.
Uschi: Too small and looks it. .005"
EZ Line: Mine has a very poor cross section , like mold-shifted.
Copper wire: Right in all aspects , with the right diameter , problems with attachment and forming.
Steel wire: See copper wire.
So at .008" this is what I have chosen:
(https://preview.ibb.co/gsjeRd/IMG_3940.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gbJjsJ)
Ya I know it says .010" but measuring it , it comes in at .008"
 I used the same PVA glue as before and glued in the bottom lines and one mag line , for testng purposes :
(https://preview.ibb.co/n0nzRd/IMG_3941.jpg) (https://ibb.co/micNey)
I will also state that it is my belief the fibre tubes to hold the HV wires are scaled too small in the kit as the numbers in scale wont add up. The Uschi rigging elastic material at .005" is the only stuff that will fit in the tubes but it looks way too small , visually , when its on the engine.
I'll put time on it and see what happens, the atatchment is the problem area.

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Juan on July 03, 2018, 03:40:22 AM
Steve, that is some beautiful detail.  Are you exposing the engines?  It would be a crime to cover them up...   :o
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 03, 2018, 04:15:12 AM
Thanks Jaun.

One open , one closed , the standard these days.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on July 03, 2018, 04:32:54 AM
   
    "One open , one closed , the standard these days."

    Atta Boy!!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 03, 2018, 02:12:50 PM
Thanks Lance.
 I threw in a row of spark plugs , using the PVA again and it allowed me to use the edge of a business card again to align after they were all in:
(https://preview.ibb.co/iDJhUy/IMG_3945.jpg) (https://ibb.co/btUp9y)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Borsos on July 03, 2018, 10:14:11 PM
Every update is a joy to look at!
Andreas
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: gbrivio on July 04, 2018, 01:03:17 AM
Beautiful details.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 04, 2018, 01:16:25 AM
Giuseppe , Andreas , Thank you.
 My go to PVA failed.
So a brand new cyano was opened and tested. The beading line adheres well with that , we'll see tomorrow after The Pull Test.
Mags and distribution tubes all glued up:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kT1hEy/IMG_3949.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cbbFZy)

And my thinned glue/black mixture gets run in around the plugs and the cylinder bank:
(https://preview.ibb.co/hpoR7J/IMG_3952.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fGDtnJ)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on July 04, 2018, 07:30:02 AM
That looks really good! 

Tell me about this thinned glue/black mixture, please.  I'm very curious.

Gaz
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 04, 2018, 10:11:08 AM

Tell me about this thinned glue/black mixture, please.  I'm very curious.


 Vallejo model air black metal,blue metal and silver  , water , Formula 560 PVA glue , and some laquer thinner to break the tension. Very thin to get into all of the tiny gaps etc . When it dries it shrinks into the gaps etc and colorizes at the same time.
It is working out well on the tiny details of the spark plugs and rocker assy's.
Sorry I cant give an exact recipe , usually when I do this stuff I "paint from the hip" . I did mix enough to get through the job and saved it in a Tamiya bottle.
 A word.
 The Janes book mentioned earlier has a complete description of this engine and its components ,as well as a comprehensive detailing of the systems and how they work. One of these is of the cylinder/head assy's. The description and my experience tells me the c/h assy would have imperfect paint to say the least Therefore some imperfect paint work will be needed. So multiple applications of the thinned paint/glue mix is the way to go for me , with layered application and rough looking work.

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 05, 2018, 01:34:07 AM
 
 An hours rough handling , as rough as I dared , only one lead fell out of a mag. I can handle that so I'll go ahead with the beading line.
 Here it is attached for mock up with the leads run.
(https://preview.ibb.co/m6LPwd/IMG_3958.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gyhtpy)
The leads may be 1or 2 thousands of an inch too big , but they look fine to me visually. This mock up will help the leads to form to their final shape.

 The mag leads begin 'training' by inserting them into a s/s tube , insert them all and push home the tube , some heat with a soldering iron will help them to retain the required form.
(https://preview.ibb.co/i6YNhJ/IMG_3955.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kJjjwd)
I need to leave these parts for a good while. You can see the r=front plug splayed by the pressure of the lead, this means some more dry time is in order for the black/glue mix.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on July 06, 2018, 05:24:02 PM
Man, that is some fine work!

Gaz
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on July 06, 2018, 07:14:34 PM
Very impressive wiring work!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 08, 2018, 01:32:49 AM
RIII , Gaz Thank you!
 A minor update.
The kit flywheel gets some reshaping into a pully for the generator.
Here it is up against the dud engine:
(https://preview.ibb.co/iCBtU8/IMG_3966.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dwpQbo)
 The black/glue mix takes  few days to harden right up so some slow movement here on the engines. I'm sapped by the constant checking and re-checking as I add details , this tells me I'm on the right course to get the engine as fully detailed as possible for me.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 08, 2018, 09:41:50 AM
A little bit better of an update as detailing the engine continues. I fabricated and added parts to represent the water piping connections between the cylinders top and bottom. I also added a clear disc and bezel for the rear sumps oil sight glass.  And new vent re-inforcments were installed as well as the pully:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ke1Two/IMG_3977.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m4u3U8)

(https://preview.ibb.co/hEt8wo/IMG_3974.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cxXe2T)

 I can see some of the water connections need adjustment, I can do this with the black/glue mix as it dries.
A little bit of texturing going on as well:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fxKgGo/IMG_3975.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ef93U8)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on July 09, 2018, 06:59:44 AM
Nice addition!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 10, 2018, 01:43:56 AM
Thanks Gaz!
And you can try a razor blade or the tip of a small soldering iron to cut the monofilament...

 Engine detailing continues. Part # E4 was applied in stages , the middle pipe connected first , then the top and you can see a minor mis-alignment on the bottom pipe , no biggie:
(https://preview.ibb.co/gikPp8/IMG_3986.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eJtoGo)
By the way , the water pump in the Gotha kit , is more detailed than the AEG kits.

I don't think I can fit any other parts without making paintwork even more difficult , so colors next...
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on July 10, 2018, 11:08:43 PM
Excellent update. The added details are exceptional!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 14, 2018, 01:25:14 AM
RIII - Thank you.
 And the details are adding up not quickly , but fast enough.
I was going to fab these breathers up , but the offerings from Taurus are spot on. There are also parts to fab an extended breather shown in a number of pics.
You can also see that the water feed pipe to the cylinder jackets has been lined up (P/N E 4 ) .I glued the middle pipe first , then the top pipe w/collar , I then set up a 'pull' and softened the top and middle pipe with some liquid glue and got the bottom pipe to line up. I see a few pics of this pipe NOT lined up , so that's one method on how to do it:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ijnX1o/IMG_4013.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cLi5Mo)If you do this, make sure you drill the water feed to the carb AFTER you set the pipes, mine is a little off because I drilled prior to insatlling part E 4.
So the pics , here is how I made the extended rear breather pipe:
(https://preview.ibb.co/bVL7Z8/IMG_4011.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jai5Mo)
All on:
(https://preview.ibb.co/gfdSZ8/IMG_4018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eju1u8)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mz0VnT/IMG_4015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fwMEE8)
 Taurus recommends drilling a 1mm hole , I usually do a location hole any way , but no ned to pin.
Thanks for looking.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: ondra on July 14, 2018, 01:48:01 AM
Somehow I missed this build, very nice work so far!

Cheers

Ondra
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 14, 2018, 09:03:33 AM
Thank you ,Ondra.
 The untidy appearance of first colorings:
(https://preview.ibb.co/c9UANT/IMG_4020.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hRreGo)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on July 14, 2018, 07:57:28 PM
Looking outstanding!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 15, 2018, 02:06:45 AM
Thanks RIII
 Just a quick shot so you can see the effects of the 'training' of the mag leads.
Here they are after a week or so , without heat or any other outside influence , the leads are forming nicely. nd the tube is a surprisingly good holder for paint detailing.
So:
(https://preview.ibb.co/bBt8Ro/IMG_4025.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jdQzXT)
(https://preview.ibb.co/doFKz8/IMG_4028.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kOV8sT)
Might as well begin the training of the plug end of things:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ihuORo/IMG_4032.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gmAxmo)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on July 15, 2018, 06:15:52 PM
That's looking really great, Steve!

Gaz
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 16, 2018, 04:10:38 AM
Thanks Gaz!
 And everyone else looking in.....
 More fitting and training , the leads get shortened and placed , the carb gets attached (at the base) generally starting to look like something , but a long way to go:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kijDeJ/IMG_4036.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nQmRzJ)
 Texturing beginning to show up as well.
Part 2 of the mag lead training: The Bend:
(https://preview.ibb.co/d8SoDd/IMG_4041.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hWnYeJ)
(https://preview.ibb.co/ncfQtd/IMG_4040.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hVmbzJ)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on July 16, 2018, 04:43:58 AM
Looking absolutely AMAZING!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 17, 2018, 02:33:23 AM
Thanks RIII.
I don't know what tis forum would do without you and the few regulars that comment.
Todays work is on the carb , specifically the hot water feed to the carb body:
(https://preview.ibb.co/jN17ry/IMG_4044.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m2Ldyd)
And the oil return line from the camshaft to the front sump:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fDgRJd/IMG_4052.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nuvWjJ)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on July 17, 2018, 02:50:36 AM
Thanks Steve but I think someone else would just take my place as far as commenting. I do try very hard to follow, look at, and comment on every build! So that being said I am constantly amazed at the tiny details you find...and add to your Models!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 17, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
Thanks RIII.
 Line -happy , prolly should not have gone this far this soon but there you have it. The pressure fed oil line to the camshaft and one of the air pressure lines installed:
(https://preview.ibb.co/b6YYgy/IMG_4057.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nQZH8d)

(https://preview.ibb.co/mkpvuJ/IMG_4053.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nHPTEJ)
Very close , but a little tweaking will get the minor kinks out.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on July 17, 2018, 06:06:29 PM
Steve,
   I love all the new additions.  Makes for a superior looking engine.

Gaz
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 17, 2018, 06:38:34 PM
Heres some more Gaz!
The last air line from the pump:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fL9JGy/IMG_4060.jpg) (https://ibb.co/enZkwy)
Presumably this would pressurize the fuel tank...?
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Juan on July 17, 2018, 09:38:16 PM
Wow Steve, that is one gorgeous looking engine.   :D
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: aliluke on July 18, 2018, 06:53:56 AM
Just been back through this whole log. What an incredible effort you have put into making this perfect. And the results are outstanding! I feel humbled when I look at my meagre craft. Will be looking in from now on.

Thanks for sharing.
Cheers,
Alistair
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on July 18, 2018, 08:28:54 PM
More amazing with each added detail!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 20, 2018, 05:25:07 AM
Thanks boys!
Some hefty compliments there....
No new pic , slowing down on the work as tourist season (fishing) kicks in.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 23, 2018, 03:04:24 AM
Hers a pic showing the effects of the 'training ' of the mag leads:
(https://preview.ibb.co/ffagUJ/IMG_4061.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mTXjid)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bJBMUJ/IMG_4062.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jtRAOd)
I think any help corralling the leads and getting them into position , rather than fighting with them and the inherent tension they contain , is an advantage. And any advantage in scale model wiring I will take without argument.


 And some bits added for the ignition advance mechanism mounting and landings on the oil pump for feed and return lines from the tank:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kew5pJ/IMG_4066.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cwyJ9J)
(https://preview.ibb.co/hwpapJ/IMG_4063.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fOD1UJ)

 I like to add the bits as rough shapes and define them further after secure attachment.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on July 23, 2018, 04:52:08 AM
I have run out of ways to say how impressed I am with your detailing of the engines Enough said  8)
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: gbrivio on July 23, 2018, 09:13:30 AM
Great engine ork, it's becoming more amazing with every update!
Giuseppe
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 23, 2018, 12:15:17 PM
RIII & G
Thank you.
For today  I decided to get to the petcock on the front cylinder. This would be to drain the water from the cylinder jackets. Bertyl showed us how eons ago on another planets forum. Cant even remember which one....
Beginning:
(https://preview.ibb.co/e5CbUJ/IMG_4070.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cYb39J)
lol you can see the pasty brush stroked first case color real good there! Some more treatments def in store...!
And the shallow detail on the p/e ring gets enhanced with some bolt head p/e:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fMj1wy/IMG_4069.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h12X3d)
It looks a lot better in person, all glued with the b/glue mix.
Lots more to go in this spine tingling engine episode.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 29, 2018, 09:32:20 AM
Still on engine additions, working slowly to avoid mistakes. I did already putting the camshaft on backwards , and almost put the valve springs on upside down , a common error.
 Here is the hot water return from the carb body:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kum0m8/IMG_4085.jpg) (https://ibb.co/i6jWto)
And a tiny handle was added to the petcock aa well as a line clamp from foil:
(https://preview.ibb.co/d0kqKT/IMG_4092.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kphsYo)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on July 29, 2018, 09:34:15 AM
Awesome Modeling Continues!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GazzaS on July 30, 2018, 04:51:56 PM
Man, I like the looks of that!

GAz
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on July 31, 2018, 11:16:29 AM
RIII & Gaz;
Thank you.

 Work on the engine continues.
And to really make your WNW kit shine the detail painting will need to be as good as you can.
Mag HV lead training has helped with the handling of the smallish parts and facilitated the installation of  a 1/12 car p/e tie wrap. You can see they have been taped to the tube to help the needed curve happen.
 The mags start gain credibility with multiple detail colors added and the first of prolly a high number of engine wash' applied:
(https://preview.ibb.co/dzh58o/IMG_4098.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ePagg8)
(https://preview.ibb.co/cExu18/IMG_4095.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k5ddTo)
The mags still need some work , still in primary stages of finish.

 Left and right shots show the primary colors nearly complete:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kvfQ8o/IMG_4102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSGyTo)
(https://preview.ibb.co/mnDCoo/IMG_4104.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dLgMg8)

 HV leads have been painted a medium grey acrylic , this may have been a mistake , we'll see.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on August 16, 2018, 04:53:02 PM
Found some time to do a little detail painting.
The  decompressor handle and the brass parts get some touch up. As wll as the plugs getting white and a dab of silver.
Also the hardware was detailed with burnt umber , as I think the nuts and bolts might have a parkerized finish , which leaves the metal with a dirty brown color:
(https://preview.ibb.co/jys3Ap/IMG_4121.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hQGVqp)
Plug wires not attached yet.
(https://preview.ibb.co/jCSaO9/IMG_4122.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eoN9i9)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on August 22, 2018, 10:43:32 AM
 More work done.

 Beginning with the mag mounting, as much 'training' as there was , there is inherent springiness in the chosem HV wire material. So I chose to pin the backs of the mags:
(https://preview.ibb.co/kGUGNe/IMG_4129.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mfdAhe)
Yoou might also see some screw detail added with an MDC rivit tool.
Then a hole drilled through:
(https://preview.ibb.co/fXXE8K/IMG_4130.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e0xgoK)
And one mag mounted:
(https://preview.ibb.co/cog1tK/IMG_4132.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nxF5Lz)
HV wires cut and attached finally:
(https://preview.ibb.co/jZVGSe/IMG_4136.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hkk5Lz)
(https://preview.ibb.co/icDEDK/IMG_4135.jpg) (https://ibb.co/eHbC0z)

 Hate the look of it at this stage , almost cartoonish without the wash' to define detail and tie it all together.
Thanks for lookin'.

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on August 22, 2018, 11:45:29 AM
   Nothing "cartoonish" here in my opinion Steve, it's looking mighty fine! Having just finished a wrestling match with plug wires on the Benz IV for my LVG and now in the midst of a bit of a struggle with the mags and their wire arrays I can certainly say I really admire your results to this stage. Great work and I'll continue to follow your progress carefully. 8) 8) 8)
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Manni on August 22, 2018, 04:06:28 PM
Top work. The engine looks great with all the pipes and wires. And as you have mentioned: with some washes and a bit oil it will be a stunner.
Bye,
Manni
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on August 27, 2018, 10:34:53 AM
Thanks Lance & Manni.

 So here is the engine in final colors. The HV leads worked out well enough:
(https://preview.ibb.co/c1wStU/IMG_4152.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jTTJ09)
(https://preview.ibb.co/e8Umnp/IMG_4157.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mh0sSp)
(https://preview.ibb.co/faFFf9/IMG_4147.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mPCHtU)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kdZK7p/IMG_4148.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mKtqDU)
 At this point the primary engine colors will have to do. I have other models to finish for the show this year. The work here was to get through the Taurus bits and show a way to do that. That's been accomplished and a lot of extra work was done as well.
In place:
(https://preview.ibb.co/iviJ09/IMG_4161.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c0n0DU)
 So The Gotha will again get packed away , returning in late November

Thanks for the comments and looking in.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: GB on August 27, 2018, 11:53:21 AM
Looking forward to its return  8)

Gary
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: aliluke on August 27, 2018, 03:05:30 PM
Ditto to that!!!  8)

Cheers
Alistair
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on August 28, 2018, 12:19:33 PM
Thanks Gary and Alistair.
 And since these just arrived ,I'll leave you with them.
They are a set of ALPS printed decals for he Gotha. There are Gothania tire logo's in 2 sizes , LVG weight tables and manufacturer labels with extra serial numbers , as well as some stencils that are prolly some of the first ever applied to war aircraft.
The black is what is printed in white:
(https://preview.ibb.co/gAZgNp/IMG_4182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kuLcv9)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dPCCTU/IMG_4184.jpg) (https://ibb.co/joHe8U)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dPCCTU/IMG_4184.jpg) (https://ibb.co/joHe8U)
All worked up from various pics.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on November 29, 2018, 06:08:53 PM
The end of November creeps up...
 
 Returning as promised I reviewed the work to date and the instructions. Continuing with the engine compartment areas I cut and assembled the kit exhaust , and prepared the forward struts:
(https://i.ibb.co/GWnYvsk/IMG-4399.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2vWV78P)
I like to stabilize the struts , gluing them to sticks for easier handling and painting.
As far as the exhaust goes , I 've seen the metal ones and they look exactly like the kit ones so I'm not convinced of the advantage there. I also thought about the night bomber exhaust ,so perfectly described in the reference material , but not really any better looking than the kit supplied manifolds. So I'll stick with the kit supplied, and see how good I can get them to look.
Seeing all of the work going on inspired me to get back into The Big G.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Dekenba1 on November 30, 2018, 07:01:29 AM
The engine in particular looks astoundingly good.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on November 30, 2018, 06:16:52 PM
Thanks Dekenba1
 Exhaust manifolds get some detail in the form of cool Archer Micro Weld Beads . Took some time to get the resin decals to conform , I wet them as usual and then went to fast dry thin plastic glue to complete the wrapped welds:
(https://i.ibb.co/PNfLCDc/IMG-4405.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HVkSght)
(https://i.ibb.co/41BMJM9/IMG-4406.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6X6bNbV)
(https://i.ibb.co/3zDLcFd/IMG-4407.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vY7Kkdq)
Reading about the construction of the manifolds , and my fabrication experience helped me to place the weld beads as realistically as possible.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on November 30, 2018, 10:10:10 PM
Great to see you back on this one! Plugs and wiring look terrific. Nice start on the exhaust.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 02, 2018, 02:59:55 AM
Thanks RIII!
 For the 10K in views on my thread I thank alla the members here and visitors.
Thank you.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 02, 2018, 04:15:35 PM
And here is the work on the exhaust.
Multiple pigment layers and Dullcoats pile up texture and color. The final swipes with dark steel pigment , a final rub with some smoke around the actual exhaust opening should finish them off nicey.
Top and bottom views:
(https://i.ibb.co/vsMnPwM/IMG-4420.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YDVskRV)
(https://i.ibb.co/LPw5H33/IMG-4428.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SxTrGzz)
(https://i.ibb.co/GFGm70k/IMG-4429.jpg) (https://ibb.co/V3b6VtD)
(https://i.ibb.co/BCsWnpf/IMG-4432.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gRgq42r)

We'll throw a few more in here.
The struts are all mounted on racks , pva'd in place effectively masking the glueing areas:
(https://i.ibb.co/7knSmxK/IMG-4438.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z2BfDRx)
Preservation of sanity is the best reason I do it that way.\
And I pulled out the engine/wing assy and fitted the exhaust , which plugged in real easy and nice:
(https://i.ibb.co/FnTD6vK/IMG-4443.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZNDMdsV)
(https://i.ibb.co/qg46wT5/IMG-4441.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n1VpSxC)
 I estimate the engine detailing at around 50% at this point. Its the hardest 50% so that's good!
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on December 03, 2018, 11:52:18 PM
Continuing to be an impressive build! The engine already looks outstanding...even at 50%
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 05, 2018, 04:44:13 PM
Thank you , RIII
 Got the struts into AK German light blue:
(https://i.ibb.co/znhmSb5/IMG-4453.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FxbhBJW)
Looking into the fairleads on the fuselage sides . Was a little worried but almost every pic has a different configuration . WNW supplies tiny parts , almost too small to drill through. Looks like I'll hafta make two for the fronts of the engines , so maybe a full set to be made. A little farther down the road....
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 06, 2018, 06:17:44 PM
 While waiting for paint to dry I quickly fabbed and soldered an anemometer mount as per many pics:
(https://i.ibb.co/18GXjq6/IMG-4473.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xJqgdjH)
(https://i.ibb.co/5LGpT6W/IMG-4471.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sqbxj2v)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on December 07, 2018, 01:41:25 AM
I am sure I have said this before but your attention to detail is terrific. Excellent work on the mount as always!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Juan on December 07, 2018, 01:54:51 AM
Really enjoying your progress and work.  Looks fantastic.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 07, 2018, 11:44:19 AM
Thanks Rick & Jaun.
 If a little redundant , nevertheless , here is Gaspatch's 1/32 anemometer attached to the mount:
(https://i.ibb.co/gjP6QJ6/IMG-4480.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vwQDfkD)
(https://i.ibb.co/yqmKykh/IMG-4482.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BBHvZ64)
This is actually mount #2 , the first didn't survive some adjustment:
(https://i.ibb.co/wNY2xtC/IMG-4485.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HDX9kZY)
And you can see here how I squished the tube , orienting towards the pilot seat , and then ground off the front of the squish , creating an elongated fishmouth to recieve the meters flange:
(https://i.ibb.co/DC4m41b/IMG-4492.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4TWCWFf)
A nice mount hanging the anemometer , an air speed guage , up into the undisturbed air it needs to function properly .
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on December 07, 2018, 08:40:57 PM
Excellent!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 08, 2018, 05:28:45 AM
 
  Thanks Rick!
 Last night some more parts were prepared for the engine pods. The framework , the fuel gauges were applied without glue to help figure out exactly how these parts go. Its a little unclear in the instructions , but there really is only one way to get it sorted. The parts are just sitting , no glue as I know the front struts need to be in place , this is one of the finest engineering points of the kit and you will be impressed. I am , WNW knows what they are doing:
(https://i.ibb.co/47hJvvg/IMG-4501.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W6ms88p)
(https://i.ibb.co/2kP5nm7/IMG-4502.jpg) (https://ibb.co/crtxgMc)
Internal engine rigging points have been sorted as well , Gpatch turnbuckles and eyelets have been installed. The tbuckles to the top as per pics. I am also thinking of the engine bearers , WNW has them as dark wood , there is a pic (page 16 instructions ) of mechs working on a Gotha in the factory that clearly shows the bearers to be  a light colored smooth material . Also it looks like the fuel tank is stepped , but not clear enough to make a call onthat .I can see the engine pods being a real chore , just the way I like it , detail wise . Packing the rest of the parts into the tiny pod space will be fun. Also the ngine in/out as I work the detail in will be fun.
Thanks for looking in.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: aliluke on December 09, 2018, 09:00:36 AM
Trully stunning Steve. Just need WNW to re-release the Gotha and I'd be up for one - I need a twin engine kit in my stash and the Gotha really appeals but I'd never reach your level of attention to detail which is just incredible!

Cheers
Alistair
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 10, 2018, 05:19:54 AM
Thank you , Alistair.
 Here is a pic with the rear turnbuckles in place , for these I drilled through the tube frame. Also there are 2 eyelets in that area (front/back) for the 2 lines that go vertically , emerging from the top of the engine pod , going between the exhaust manifold runners to the underside of the top wing:
(https://i.ibb.co/FzBqft2/IMG-4505.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GRV31jy)
 And the lack of decent reference pics of the engine area is frustrating things. My work on Harleys gives me some insight into the mounting of parts. Especially a full oil tank which is very heavy. The oil tank here , happily perched on top of a tube with no mounts or info on mounting , no info on return , feed or breather lines is making me mental. I 'll most likely try to see in the limited available pics , of how it was mounted and plumbed.
I'll be on to painting these parts today as well.
 As far as a Gotha re-release , I've already called it with a Duellist set , the Gotha and a Biff in a nightfighting theme.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on December 10, 2018, 05:51:57 AM
Looking really good Steve, and I'd say taking a bit of "informed license" with some of the finer details in the absence of objective references being available is more then logical! Great job so far and, as of yesterday, of much greater interest to me; I was offered a sealed Gotha Kit for the price of a lifetime so I'll be book marking this excellent Log for future reference! :)
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 11, 2018, 11:04:06 AM
Thanks Lance!
And grab that Gotha if its a good price. The last one I was  offered  , with the GV conversion was over $400CAD.  Needless to say I passed.
Still interested in a GV conversion at a decent price...

I'll be pretty clear about 'informed licence' whenever it is going to show up , I'm not tryna 'fabricate' details.
As far as the oil tank goes , last nights research of the 3 available pics (only one useable ) that have a Gotha oil tank in them revealed a mount. That would be pic # 36 on page16 in your Gotha! programme.
   There is very obviously an inverted 'V' mount off the lower front of the tank. This would suffice for me , even though it is a post war mail plane. Perhaps the original mount broke and this is the fix.
Unfortunately WNW has the oil tank further to the inside of the engine pod. So I'll have to cut off the filler neck , cut off the oil tank , fabricate a mount as shown and re-position the oil tank farther out and re-attaching the filler neck. This will be for the exposed engine so it will not have to have the panels match up to the mods. It wont be so different than the closed up engine for looks , and I wont have a hovering oil tank any more. I think this was done by WNW to work within  the plastic thickness and at least have an oil tank for us.
 All this mind-numbing figuring out of the open engine area is due to the fact that this is the most concentrated detail and parts interaction on the whole kit , the fit is very good , the parts are very good and exposing the engine detail is requiring extreme concentration and parts familiarity.

 All of the parts have to be worked with together to get it right.
Today I bit the bullet and cut the front and rear panels. Again a huge amount of thought has gone into the work and I used the finest blade of my razor saw.

One easy:
(https://i.ibb.co/MNZryd6/IMG-4517.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VBJR06m)
One not so easy:
(https://i.ibb.co/0VssZpb/IMG-4516.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WpVVFNJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/phRQD5X/IMG-4518.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z2YSs7T)
Pretty rough!
But I'll sort it out, after all its only plastic...I'll just add this in here.
Here are the cut front /back engine pod panels. They have been cleaned up and drilled out  all of the screws , the front lower radiater drain slot ( some trouble there at the top , a very small hoop of plastic ) and thinning out beginning:
(https://i.ibb.co/cFf4DL2/IMG-4521.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qsqTk5m)
 An issue right away if doing this , the rear wing struts are actually mounted in the rear top cowl , so something will have to be done there. Also the rear lower cowl does not reach the vertical rear bulkhead, nothing a strip of plastic wont solve. Pics to follow as my camera battery quit.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 12, 2018, 04:44:47 AM
Oil tank antics.
 I made a cradle/plate style of mount , not too obtrusive or extraordinary, just how I would go about supporting an oil tank:
(https://i.ibb.co/0KR8qPy/IMG-4540.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gdLHysZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/25ggCRQ/IMG-4539.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x3JJBw0)
(https://i.ibb.co/wCYWZ9r/IMG-4545.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZKN8Rn1)
Glued it:
(https://i.ibb.co/89sQZwG/IMG-4567.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NKCGBqf)
You can see the minimal re-positioning:
(https://i.ibb.co/W6jjgYY/IMG-4565.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6mLLgff)
A couple of vertical supports and some hardware detail embossed:
(https://i.ibb.co/CQqLjkP/IMG-4570.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dDSZNdm)
(https://i.ibb.co/sCWHNvp/IMG-4572.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NrTSJ6g)
 Based on the pic its not a bad effort , the oil tank cannot hover on the top of a pipe !
Looking closely at the pic it could be argued that the vertical supports angle back to the engine bearers , I'll leave that for someone else.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: gbrivio on December 12, 2018, 05:37:06 AM
Beautiful, also troublesome to say the least. I don't know if I was able to near your great skills but this work is inspiring and a great deal of modelling tips.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 13, 2018, 11:36:59 AM
 Thanks G!
 Intense examination of the engine pod area has been going on for the last few days. I think alla the detail I want to add is possible , this includes 'the greaser ' , a genny and some wireing and hose/pipes for the air/fuel/cooling/ and oil systems. should be fun!
 here is the exposed engine sitting in place and the f/r lower cowls in place:
(https://i.ibb.co/8svQ9hk/IMG-4578.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dMCHDhZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/85Rr9nB/IMG-4580.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1qprTYn)
(https://i.ibb.co/k2s8NxM/IMG-4574.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jjw7DKC)
This one shows the gap at the rear lower cowl and the rear vertical bulkhead:
(https://i.ibb.co/cvqFZmC/IMG-4582.jpg) (https://ibb.co/26JtCbs)
This is good stuff for anyone attempting the exposing of a Gotha engine. Feel free to point out any issues you can see.
 The genny was taken from the German accy tree offered by WNW , a pulley was fabbed as well as a bracket to hang it:
(https://i.ibb.co/4ZWH6D9/IMG-4595.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rGkVCLT)
(https://i.ibb.co/tXGhq7Q/IMG-4593.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fvgSkhq)
 I drilled some holes for wires in the genny too.

 Issues to date (and the cures ) with exposing a Gotha engine from most serious down:

 -Rear V struts to top wing now have no mounting slots , they are part of the top rear cowl. This will be left until the top wing goes on. The upper cowl has been cleared of the mounts for the struts. Pics show the struts to be as the front are , coming off the 'ball' mount the Gemans used. I'll place the balls where they are needed.

 -Two crossmembers to be fabbed and the kit ones cut off from the very top cowl cover. Part #D49 carries the 2 crossmembers. Looking at sprue D you can see a funny set of sprues on either end off the part, they look like half part half sprue. Use these , with some mods , to form the new crossmembers:
(https://i.ibb.co/TT4brmJ/IMG-4606.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b3s27zY)
(https://i.ibb.co/527Vtd7/IMG-4608.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hCqvhkq)
(https://i.ibb.co/CMbjnGp/IMG-4659.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yyc5ts4)

 -Slim gap at the rear vertical bulkhead and the lower cowl. Strips of paper thin card can be used for this , thin out the cowl sides for perfect fit. Lower right:
(https://i.ibb.co/5L0h6Z2/IMG-4602.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gJ2Z3Y6)

 -Front rigging points need to be fabbed with structure to support.
Work begins with the placement of a rod to see where the 2 rigging points are, these will need to be as close as poss for the rigging to look right:
(https://i.ibb.co/JF0xwxX/IMG-4649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/prGWBWC)
(https://i.ibb.co/SKW79rh/IMG-4650.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2jmYfND)
(https://i.ibb.co/NW4VdSh/IMG-4651.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qmZy35G)
(https://i.ibb.co/mCDKwW2/IMG-4669.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N6VqPBJ)
 -Front vertical bulkhead needs I/P marks removed.
This was done prior , but I mixed up the bulkheads , so I did it quickly in situ.
 -All cut cowls need a lot of thinning , cowl edge profiles need addressing ,especially the front upper cowl. Lots of removal inside the cowls.
Cowl work:
(https://i.ibb.co/bRR4FDh/IMG-4621.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cXXWwV5)
(https://i.ibb.co/HFPG6P5/IMG-4619.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mDyhkyf)
(https://i.ibb.co/KrzmV9V/IMG-4617.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hm1C2K2)
(https://i.ibb.co/PWkkzp0/IMG-4633.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fNJJGRL)
(https://i.ibb.co/8jxXxCq/IMG-4630.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qRgxgSK)
 -Screw holes need to be drilled out in cowls.
 -Front upper cowl needs an edge replaced in the front circular section.
(https://i.ibb.co/gt322T5/IMG-4751.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r5mjj6C)
 -Lower cowls need a flange attached where the screws go in.
 -Rad cap in top of the front cowl to be cut off and a hole drilled out.
 -Rad stem and cap to be fabbed for exposed rad.
 -Rad feed pipe to water pump to be fabbed.
 -Ugly seam at the back of the rad to be addressed.
Rad work:
(https://i.ibb.co/tmWSmbn/IMG-4640.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fxj9xBc)
Ugly seam filled and sanded . Also take note of the bottom of the rad , the mount surface is angled by the casting line. This allows the rad to rock back and forth. Not good. It wont matter on my exposed engine , but the fit into the upper front cowl is precise. I will glue the rad into the cowl rather than to the engine bearers. You can see the bottom of the one rad is leveled out. Both cowls and rads have had the cap detail removed and holes drilled and the new detail added:
(https://i.ibb.co/QKZ6F9k/IMG-4761.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W2QcWn0)
   
   Here is the parts layout as promised:
(https://i.ibb.co/CJYnPNz/IMG-4768.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9w1qZzN)
 Some of the non exposed parts will need work to match the exposed ones , the rad is one of these parts. If your building non exposed  glue the rad into the cowl , and glue the gas guage into the cowl side.
 
 I took my time with a lot of visual; checking and rechecking. All of the additions are of regular plastic stock. The top tubes are formed as shown. The front curved tube was wrapped around a hobby knife for a few days and then put into the required shape and softened with thin glue a few times until it stayed in shape. Under the top tubes I slid in a thin piece of brass so they would not glue to the jig. Don't build one pod and then try to expose the other , the full cowlings come in handy for checking and other uses you'll find out if you try this.
 I'm gonna move to paint , just the primer and see what happens. There is some assy after final color , the tubular frame is where i'm talking about. The 2 top tubes and 2 front lower rad diagonals , the rear strut extensions , will all be installed after the grey green.



   

     

 
 
 
 
 





 
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 16, 2018, 09:04:44 AM
 Check the last post as I go through the steps required to expose a Gotha engine.  I will be adding to the list with copy and pics .
 
 
   Never the less here are the engine air scoops on the lower rear cowl. I chose to leave them opn the sprue for opening up the holes:
(https://i.ibb.co/Rjw4kFR/IMG-4615.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FHTqLrR)
 A final cleaning up with a knife blade followed.

 Genny position swapped. It was covering the oil sight glass on the other side and fills in nicely here:
(https://i.ibb.co/Jd263BT/IMG-4646.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BPjWnzJ)
 Engine placards realized by WNW decals on HGW's p/e:
(https://i.ibb.co/NghsNLG/IMG-4652.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6chmt4q)
 They could have been fitted better , but I'll clean up the edges after they set.
Moving quickly through some of these , I wanna get the engine into its final primary colors so I can get it into place for the final detailing onslaught.
 Engine placarded , still in primary colors:
(https://i.ibb.co/n3srCLv/IMG-4673.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DGD4pRy)
(https://i.ibb.co/Gfmytkn/IMG-4675.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rK9YcMF)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Juan on December 18, 2018, 03:31:12 AM
That engine (along with everything else) looks fantastic.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Manni on December 18, 2018, 04:06:28 PM
Outstanding work an aditions. I will sit down and watch carefull.
Bye,
Manni
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 18, 2018, 04:57:48 PM
    Thank you Juan and Manni.
 Keeping on with the exposed engine area , I added some parts:
(https://i.ibb.co/5kQQ2m0/IMG-4685.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C6jjWgc)
(https://i.ibb.co/M5pZZvF/IMG-4684.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zHbQQMq)
(https://i.ibb.co/J7pby1q/IMG-4686.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1qXpdgM)
(https://i.ibb.co/BnnYP5j/IMG-4696.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hYYTMJH)

 Pretty much conjecture on the parts , the only thing for sure is there is tubing and some mounts , but based on pics etc. I used some Grandt Line rivet heads and Aeroclub bezrels to replicate the ball mounts that struts attach to on Gothas.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on December 20, 2018, 09:10:27 AM
All I can say is this is a continuing lesson in Modeling Excellence!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 21, 2018, 04:25:03 AM
 Thanks Richard and everyone else looking in.
 Pre mount engine detailing continues with a cheesy advance mechanism and a carb butterfly lever:
(https://i.ibb.co/L8NPb6j/IMG-4701.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XbY4Np0)
(https://i.ibb.co/37wxsyC/IMG-4700.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Czqjt5H)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Gisbod on December 21, 2018, 07:19:44 AM
Nice Steve,

I can’t get how neatly the wires attach to the spark plugs?

Guy
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 21, 2018, 07:53:20 AM
Thank you Guy.
The high tension leads are simply cyanoed , dead head to the resin plugs.  The plugs came with the lead attachment screw cast in place and out of all 12 none of the leads came loose or fell off.
Cut the lead wire as close to 90 degrees as possible and they will attach nicely. Then paint silver a scale 1/2" at the plug, to replicate the crimped jacket of the ring terminal.

(https://preview.ibb.co/eTPfDU/IMG-4151.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dwo7tU)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: aliluke on December 21, 2018, 12:41:55 PM
Hi Steve
I continue to watch in awe of your research and skills. Keep it coming!

Cheers
Alistair
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 21, 2018, 04:07:15 PM
 Thank you , Alistair.

 Supersonic crustaceans and an ominous formation of Noops on the horizon....

 The engine detailing slogs on , I spent most of today adding details and then coming back tonight and removing them all , replacing with the fittings I originally wanted to use.
 Anyway... the greaser , which grease' the water pump bearings , is sposda be operated by the pilot during flight , gets mounted along with a bezel for the fuel gauge mount :
(https://i.ibb.co/QCZ3MGh/IMG-4712.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F09Lztc)
 I also re-fitted the hot water return from the carb , fuel overflow fitting , fuel delivery fitting , and test fitted the assy numerous times:
(https://i.ibb.co/nkBvZNK/IMG-4713.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9YhLzkd)
(https://i.ibb.co/sFNzfZK/IMG-4722.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hK4w6SB)

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on December 22, 2018, 12:10:41 AM
Incredible attention to detail Steve, very impressive! Your Optivisor must be much better then mine judging by the results you're showing here, X50 power at least. :o Great work!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 23, 2018, 04:34:28 AM
 Thanks for the glowing accolades , Lance!
 
  Banging out last minute gifts for customers has me a little tired , but ; Strike while the irons hot!

 
     Detailing has continued. Clamps were replicated on the feed pipes , and as everyone says to do it now , the exhaust gets mounted:
(https://i.ibb.co/z6R1Kqg/IMG-4731.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hYWkp3N)

 Detailing is winding down until the engine gets put in place, then another round of it.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 23, 2018, 03:46:41 PM
Thanks for lookin'!
 
 Giving my eyes a break somewhat and went to finishing the cowls. Some delicate profiling and matching. Holding the 2 parts together , it looks pretty good:
(https://i.ibb.co/gt322T5/IMG-4751.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r5mjj6C)
...and rad work continues. Removing the phallic blob representing the rad drain is a given if you clear out the oval slot in the front upper cowl. This will need to be replaced and starting with a pin and then some plastic rod:
(https://i.ibb.co/yWZ0Cxh/IMG-4744.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hD4sNTX)

 These will have petcocks on the end, 2 of 5 that need to be made, hear that aftermarket ? , 5 petcocks needed for proper Gotha detailing.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 25, 2018, 05:49:35 AM
Finally the engine bay gets painted first colors:
(https://i.ibb.co/pb6vzSR/IMG-4784.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZGR680Y)

...and I kept going until I got them to look like oak:
(https://i.ibb.co/Zh0XFzW/IMG-4797.jpg) (https://ibb.co/brkmC5z)
 I also decided to render the 2 'blocks' added to the front of the bulkhead by WNW to shore up the framework as wood , they look a little better that way. I'm trying to keep the colors light , still undecided how much oil these things would have leaked , the rendering of which will darken everything.

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Borsos on December 28, 2018, 04:35:05 AM
Very impressive build. Great eye for the detail!
Andreas
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: PrzemoL on December 28, 2018, 07:12:27 PM
Impressive is too small a word... I am speechless.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 29, 2018, 07:34:57 AM
 Przy & Borsos:
 Thanks for commenting , it means a lot.
 Thanks everyone for looking in as well!
 Watching a short clip on youtube showing the start-up of a Gotha ,  a chance to see some info , I can see a mech inside the engine pod manipulating something. Its in the upper area of the pod , and I think it may be the starting magneto he is using. I THINK  the start mag is cranked , and the charge sent through a switch to the engine's mags for starting. It has to be as simple as that as things weren't that complicated as far as starting these things. Two guys on the prop as well , maybe the fact that the pistons weighed 10 pounds each had summat to do with that...
So I'll use Taurus starting mag and switch set , the high detail set , #3230a . Watching the vid and looking at the parts I thought a flat plate , detailed with a weld bead , bracket beside the oil tank would be a good guess as to where the start mag was mounted:
(https://i.ibb.co/Zh6r31P/IMG-4801.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zShg1HY)
 Details that are inside the pod are being worked on today, as well as moving the rest of the parts in play here into primer and paint

As promised:
(https://i.ibb.co/Fb2M5Zf/IMG-4819.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QFLRPSq)
(https://i.ibb.co/QnVcYcY/IMG-4821.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CvytVtV)
(https://i.ibb.co/7vpzKv5/IMG-4822.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xhgs6h0)
(https://i.ibb.co/LNJZ1br/IMG-4826.jpg) (https://ibb.co/phRLdGQ)
 Notes regarding the gas guages. If not exposing I suggest cutting off the mount and gluing the guage right into the side cowl panel.I'll be doing that. Aeroclub bezels fit perfect, WNW decals provide 4 off and I wrecked the first 2 by using Solvaset , water and Mr Mark Softer suffices. Orient the decals by looking at the face and the bottom, you'll see what I mean. If you use the mount , cut a 45 degree channel in the back of the small peg mount , this will help it align on the framework and make gluing easier. Formula PVA was used to secure the bezels and create the lens.
 Kept going...
 Last shot for today of the engine sitting in place:
(https://i.ibb.co/QNSVbKq/IMG-4844.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0M4LDGW)
(https://i.ibb.co/kqQdQkL/IMG-4841.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VM2K2rF)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: aliluke on December 30, 2018, 06:17:50 PM
Steve
Well above and beyond the call of duty! Extraordinary is the word I think of. I hope that when you finish like minds can see this model in the flesh and understand the labour and love that you have put into it. My like mind sees it already. I will keep looking and marvel.

Cheers and all the best for 2019
Alistair

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Gisbod on December 30, 2018, 06:54:21 PM
That’s just stunning Steve!

Awesome work  8)

Guy
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 30, 2018, 06:57:45 PM
 
 Alistair; Thank you and the same to you!
Guy, thank you!
 Finding time today for some color if you can call it that.
 Stating with black . then some white aluminum & brass , liberal amounts of chipping fluid , followed by AK grey/green , then mixing in some light blue o finish the parts & panels to this point:
(https://i.ibb.co/b10CbMV/IMG-4854.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VV1zwcG)
(https://i.ibb.co/cy96jrs/IMG-4855.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hgNBSmT)
(https://i.ibb.co/7XrdNNc/IMG-4861.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g3tLFF1)
 A little more satisfiying than the fiddly detail work.
Scrubbed in warm water:
(https://i.ibb.co/Qcq7t96/IMG-4867.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9vfmSnq)
(https://i.ibb.co/H4kBg5x/IMG-4869.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sy95vFd)
(https://i.ibb.co/khnHNgW/IMG-4870.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RCnvRpV)
 Just about perfect for the treatments to come...

I went back in this morn and blew on some more paint to tone down the chipping a little:
(https://i.ibb.co/mz8X5RX/IMG-4880.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4NdYRFY)
(https://i.ibb.co/6v4KCzQ/IMG-4881.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9wqx56P)


Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on December 31, 2018, 02:44:49 PM
 Final Sunday night iteration.
 Pods painted chipped and cleared with the 50/50 IPA Future mix.
 Engine details painted , pod interior details painted:
(https://i.ibb.co/dmX5cFY/IMG-4888.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CP4HtgG)
(https://i.ibb.co/R26pK2M/IMG-4886.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8MxDwMR)
Engine in place for prolly one of the last times as I need to get it in there for final detail hookups.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Borsos on December 31, 2018, 10:39:21 PM
Still breathtaking what you are doing here. The painting of the nacelle looks great.
Best regards
Andreas
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Bughunter on December 31, 2018, 10:58:05 PM
A big aircraft in a big scale in that quality = a huge amount of effort! But it is really great work, I will watch and learn.

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 02, 2019, 12:16:17 AM
 Thank you very much Frank & Andreas
I'm glad my work is interesting to you guys and all others stopping by.
(https://i.ibb.co/xqB6PHw/IMG-4893.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KxfWRwB)
Errant plug wire and bezel re-visited...

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Juan on January 02, 2019, 03:59:55 AM
That engine looks good enough to eat, a mini masterpiece.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 02, 2019, 06:51:00 PM
Thanks Juan!
 Some framework details will need to be added as asssy progress' .
These 2 front horizontals being of that nature:
(https://i.ibb.co/6mYmY89/IMG-4895.jpg) (https://ibb.co/80M0Mbv)
Since the work has been done in plastic it was easy enough to melt the end of the rod and press it into frames creating a weld bead of sorts.
WNW has the box under the rad in brass. Brass is used for tanks and I cant see what would be needed in a tank there. I chose to do it  in wood , as I think it is a battery box:
(https://i.ibb.co/09ssLLd/IMG-4898.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7pkkDD6)
And nice to see that the framework chipping is on par with the gas tank rendering. Still not sure on how much oil will be splattered on these parts after they are all in place.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on January 02, 2019, 11:47:00 PM
Incredible detailing, painting and weathering. Really Looking Superb!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 04, 2019, 06:27:36 AM
 Thanks RIII!
 When doing the engine cowls don't forget the underside like I did :
(https://i.ibb.co/HpHGf4Q/IMG-4901.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DgRwHWn)
 No biggie.
 Went into it a redid the previous treatment on the bottoms:
(https://i.ibb.co/rx72TvD/IMG-4914.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wS0h3Y5)
(https://i.ibb.co/vsxBhTj/IMG-4917.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TKBT17g)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: gbrivio on January 04, 2019, 07:59:05 AM
Beautiful detailing and painting work. I'm impressed by the amount of tiny things you managed to have in these engine bays.
And looking forward to the next steps.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 04, 2019, 01:01:32 PM
Thanks G

 WNW is NOT kidding when they say all of these parts work together to line everything up. Thankfully the parts fit is near perfect so its tough to get something out of line. I mixed up the top cowls, easy fix , but def something o watch out for , I recommend keeping the cowl pieces as separated as possible to avoid mix ups, highlighting the instructions will help too. I glued the rad into the cowl to ensure fit, as well the gas gauge was cut off its fiddly mount and glued into the cowl side. I will say even with the stellar instructions , the fit and everything else at play , its not perfectly clear what is going on with the parts interface. You learn quick as you go in this part of the Gotha kit.
 Strapped up and drying:
(https://i.ibb.co/nzZvyy4/IMG-4935.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f4B5WWZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/W3wDfgG/IMG-4925.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xs0m6JX)
(https://i.ibb.co/njBzV0D/IMG-4927.jpg) (https://ibb.co/89b6RBj)
 After the ends and  top cured for a while I popped in the side panels , again with the exemplary fit they fell into place:
(https://i.ibb.co/HF96X4y/IMG-4945.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zntpNxg)
Guage cut off and mounted to cowl:
(https://i.ibb.co/pvKVc48/IMG-4943.jpg) (https://ibb.co/27MVxcQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/vQcfqBn/IMG-4942.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VQLb9N4)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 05, 2019, 04:32:14 AM
  ...and with the wing center section winding down , I went back on the fuse.
 Custom mask set developing , started with fuse masks , this shortened the masking time considerably:
(https://i.ibb.co/LtQB331/IMG-4946.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G2sGqqR)
Flat black primer base:
(https://i.ibb.co/74jNLWW/IMG-4951.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dgjJx22)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on January 05, 2019, 05:59:42 AM
Absolutely AWESOME progess!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 05, 2019, 05:53:14 PM
RIII Thanks!
 
 Engine fitting for perhaps the last time. Four or five  lines to connect once in place , oil feed/return , the greaser , and the water feed/return. Fittings are in place just giving the final checks:
(https://i.ibb.co/pynJ7yj/IMG-4975.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BNwqpN2)
(https://i.ibb.co/C9ccD39/IMG-4971.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T0ffdx0)
(https://i.ibb.co/xhFMGwm/IMG-4982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0qsfZ1B)
Engine under fittings:
(https://i.ibb.co/D8zsqh1/IMG-4962.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dLj1hFf)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on January 06, 2019, 05:01:49 AM
Absolutely awesome detail Steve, and I really like your "wear and chipping" finish on the cowl panels. this is going to be a spectacular model!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 06, 2019, 07:16:28 AM
Thanks Lance!
   Switching back and forth between the two main assy's , as we speak I am laying on the gloss black.
First coat:
(https://i.ibb.co/mT5kxbm/IMG-4985.jpg) (https://ibb.co/H4T6JB0)
 
 My mask worked flawlessly. Even with the doghouse separate no blow-by can be seen , now the wooden starboard edge and the padded perimeter of the cockpit can be finished easily. Here you can see the easily dealt with demarcation on the inside edge of the doghouse:
(https://i.ibb.co/Hz4WTgy/IMG-4996.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qsjtY18)
(https://i.ibb.co/Cmk4Hjb/IMG-4994.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KbMBrt2)
(https://i.ibb.co/N7g9Thb/IMG-4993.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kMV4mnv)
(https://i.ibb.co/M2dsmLH/IMG-4992.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Vj6ts8G)
 Super happy with this , the wood tones stand out more and I can finish up some work in the commanders ring as well. Black is smooth and glossy by using flat black primer first and gloss black and gloss clear mixed together in light coats too finish. Followed by straight clear to seal.


 
 The first hint of the ominous look of a dark finished Gotha emerges...
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: jeroen_R90S on January 07, 2019, 06:06:27 AM
Awesome work, Steve! Look forward to what magic awaits the fuselage :)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on January 07, 2019, 09:28:20 AM
Not much to say other than Beautiful work!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 07, 2019, 10:00:02 AM
RIII & Jeroen  -Thanks for checking in.
 High Detail means High PITA. I managed to get the parts onto a wire for easier handling , but these castings are pushing the limit of what can be done in resin.
 Get them sorted and they look the part:
(https://i.ibb.co/q9wGbWP/IMG-5019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1KxVHdw)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ld5VvwB/IMG-5020.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3mzgkXV)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Manni on January 07, 2019, 04:35:02 PM
This is already the best Gotha I have ever seen, Steve! THe details you have added are mindblowing, perfect!
Bye,
Manni
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 07, 2019, 07:39:16 PM
 Thank you , Manni!

 Thought I might have went too far on the engine:
(https://i.ibb.co/SmXHgVY/IMG-5032.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PWZJy1X)
(https://i.ibb.co/rQZTbYS/IMG-5029.jpg) (https://ibb.co/515tYmy)
...but it looked ok in place:
(https://i.ibb.co/7VzHG9k/IMG-5038.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Xp49zwY)
(https://i.ibb.co/d45vtQ7/IMG-5042.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F4D1XBn)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: ktrembacz on January 07, 2019, 09:36:24 PM
Awesome work fully worth this rare kit  :o
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on January 08, 2019, 09:50:31 AM
If not for the white plastic rod one could mistake the engine photos for Museum shots of the real deal!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 08, 2019, 10:05:52 AM
 Thanks RIII , & kbacz !
 Rare ? Is it a rare kit now?
 I just spent an hour or so going through the WNW customer models pages of Gothas . Some very decent examples , a few pushing the envelope higher.
I hope to elevate the bar with my work.

 Todays effort is an all out one, no rush , no delineated procedure , just observation of the engine pod internals , the finished models on the site giving numerous clues. Regarding the bits needed to clean up the 'model' look of the engine area. Wiring for the genny and starter mag routed and painted. Chipping gone over to 'relax' the previous intensity . And details like the oil tank gone over as well.  All this as I ask  the question ; 'Can the engine stay in place now'...
 First of all this is way too clean:
(https://i.ibb.co/gFHZTcR/IMG-5060.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k6k28PS)
 Small piecess of plastic card were used to cover the exposed framework at the F/R  vertical bulkheads:
(https://i.ibb.co/XVzzcXV/IMG-5045.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Pt55qxt)
(https://i.ibb.co/W2wn8X0/IMG-5046.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P6nxXyM)
 'Embedding' treatments to come tonight and the engine WILL  be in its final position for the start of tomorrows day.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Juan on January 08, 2019, 10:47:57 AM
Wow, I blinked and almost missed some major beautiful work.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 09, 2019, 08:34:57 AM
 Thanks Juan!
 
 
 *********WARNING GRAPHIC DEPICTION OF A WW1 ENGINE BAY - MAY  NOT BE SUITABLE FOR ALL VIEWERS*******

 (https://i.ibb.co/grpWVS1/IMG-5071.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j82wRyK)
(https://i.ibb.co/4KWCK6g/IMG-5076.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0mq1mgV)
(https://i.ibb.co/YynSqhc/IMG-5069.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2sVrfdv)

 So much fun...with something like 24 plus openings in the camshaft run , and exposed rocker gear to fling the oil , coupled with a 1/2" dia hose pipe oil feed , there's gonna be a mess that even a team of mechs wont be able to keep up with!

  And like a teenager on prom night I stuck it in:
(https://i.ibb.co/Qj2pFD5/IMG-5083.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sJ0bvWB)
(https://i.ibb.co/N6D4g0k/IMG-5081.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JR6hWYb)
Still not finished.....
14 items on the final list for lines , hook-ups , etc.

..and because I'm just that kinda guy:
(https://i.ibb.co/LkKhZ6c/IMG-5095.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qb0jKnT)

Wing center section mask proves itself nicely.
(https://i.ibb.co/qRM66x9/IMG-5090.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2j7JJ5P)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on January 09, 2019, 12:09:33 PM
That engine Bay weathering is unbelievable !!!!!! Looks so real!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Manni on January 09, 2019, 04:36:45 PM
Yes, I agree! It looks so real.Superb.
Bye,
Manni
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: PrzemoL on January 09, 2019, 05:57:34 PM
Great all around. Detail, weathering, colouring... It will be a masterpiece, pardon me, it already is...
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 09, 2019, 06:26:10 PM
Przy , manni , RIII , many thanks.
 
 14 on the list , knocked 2 off tonight , I did a tach cable and the water pipe to the top of the rad. This I modified from kit part # D40 , this was necessary to clear the Taurus (problematic to the end ) valve gear. It can be done by cutting and extending the short vertical section of the pipe. I used some small heat shrink tube to extend:
 (https://i.ibb.co/WtPN2CM/IMG-5100.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTtf5m8)
 I should be able to knock the list down significantly tomorrow as the end is in sight for this part of the model.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 10, 2019, 06:38:38 PM
 Knocking down the list , so far the tach cable , greaser line , one oil line and the 2 'oops in place;
(https://i.ibb.co/Cb5czRS/IMG-5102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fkYg2jT)
oh , and the top water line, which I did in a steel pipe rendition. I 'm pretty sure a pipe that long , holding hot water under pressure , with little support , if it was made of copper it would work harden in about a week and fracture. Such is the nature of copper.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on January 10, 2019, 11:14:51 PM
All looks stunning in place! An Epic build for sure!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Borsos on January 11, 2019, 01:34:12 AM
Can only echoe all the positive comments above: Really extraordinary!
Andreas
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: Umlaufmotor on January 11, 2019, 04:41:25 AM
Really great.
Wonderful and very convincing implemented engine and also the engine bay.
Nice, if someone dares to make things look used and dirty.
The engine pic's smell of Flugbenzin, hot oil and sprayed cooling water - the sound of the whirling Gotha prop's and ticketing valves is in the air.
BRAVO!

Servus
Bertl
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: jeroen_R90S on January 12, 2019, 05:48:18 AM
Really good looking indeed! I like you idea with the heat-shrink tube too, that just got filed away :)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 15, 2019, 02:07:45 PM
RIII , Thanks as usual for your time commenting.
Andreas , thanks for your encouragement.
Bertyl , you were intrinsic in the detailing of the engine shown here , many thanks.
Jeroen , thank you as well. The rubber connector pipe shown is evident in a few pics , I'm sure you would have spotted it at some point!
By the way I use 1/32" brushed silver pinstripe tape for the clamp/bands.

 Very well then:

 Moving forward , the list of additions to The Gotha exposed engine pod rounds out with the fabrication of the advance cable and the throttle cable:
(https://i.ibb.co/kGwbzfP/IMG-5110.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vcTyfGM)
Obviously yet to be installed.
 Feed and return lines from the oil tank, the tach cable , the greaser line , the water feed and the upper structural tubes ( the 'oops) , all in their unfinished form , are evident in the following pics:
(https://i.ibb.co/6wWvgNx/IMG-5112.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sy3QRJ8)
(https://i.ibb.co/Cb5czRS/IMG-5102.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fkYg2jT)
(https://i.ibb.co/FwrKcWh/IMG-5104.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3N37VsT)
(https://i.ibb.co/gdshjp7/IMG-5114.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dtnxWqc)

 I do not hesitate and willingly admit many of the additions are , not fanciful , but educated guess' as to the particular details of the additions. The oil lines for example , draped down without strain relief or mounting , its just the way things were done in the beginning. Best of all I'm having a gas doing this work!
 Next up we'll finish the additions and rig that thing.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: lcarroll on January 16, 2019, 12:33:27 AM
Steve,
    The detailing and particularly the weathering of the engines is nothing short of spectacular. This is going to be a truly "one of a kind" replica of the real thing, just great work!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: jeroen_R90S on January 17, 2019, 06:23:12 AM
By the way I use 1/32" brushed silver pinstripe tape for the clamp/bands.

Thanks!

The whole thing (almost) together really does look superb, it's pretty much a model on it's own. :)
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 18, 2019, 06:27:28 AM
Lance and Jeroen - Thanks muchly!

 Approaching the kit as a series of kits has helped me gain a handle on the scope and approach to the work , a workable strategy for me.

 Jeroen is that your Gotha so predominant on the WNW customer model showcase?
 
 As the work on the fuse and wing center winds into a stopping point I have started to look ahead into the next step of the model.

                                                                                                The Deathhead.

 I'm considering this as a part of the model , the approach being at first a little muddled but after 5 or so years thinking about it has helped clear and stabilize the thinking. There are some subtle reasons the deathhead is so effective on the Gotha , the artist , a smart cookie , integrated the lines of the fuse nose into the work, creating a wholly disagreeable , ghastly and so cool image:
(https://i.ibb.co/NZbLmMM/dheada1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XSMz3qq)

 Right away we can see the lines of the artwork , the temples , the cheekbone ,  parallelling the lines of the fuse nose. I can see the first workings of the masks to come and this is most likely going to be soem of the coolest work I'll do on a model. This is of course a half image , doubled and mirrored , and with an ALPS printer could become a decal. I'm a paint guy when it comes o custom graphics, so masks will be developed first.

C'mon , get some cooool!
 Hopefully a little 'cool' injected into modelling wont set the world on its edge.






   13404
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 18, 2019, 07:39:32 PM
   
 This will be the final configuration for now. It looks a little too oily because it is , this is unfinished work , but a clear and easily restarted point. The ignition advance cable and throttle cable /mech are in place and look ok to me , a bit over scale but...meh. This engine is hooked up , oil , water , lube , electrical etc. No empty fittings. I cant put alla the steps and fittings and procedures for the exposing of an engine , its a little convoluted here at the end , making lists and knocking them down helped me.
 I'll throw these up , and take some more outside tomorrow:
(https://i.ibb.co/qkWXbgw/IMG-5135.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SRdWqmp)
(https://i.ibb.co/s9mv6Jg/IMG-5134.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LdkzJh0)
(https://i.ibb.co/pd0pkfD/IMG-5133.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HqFQ9tv)
(https://i.ibb.co/WVjQJrQ/IMG-5142.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fDLbw3b)
(https://i.ibb.co/pZmXZsr/IMG-5132.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FJP7Jfq)

 Here are some notes for the work involved exposing a Gotha engine.

The Engine Bearers ; These can rotate along their length during curing. One of mine did , causing some grief. 2 'planks clamped across the top and bottom will keep them parallell in all planes. Rotation can be seen looking from font-back down the length of the bearer.

  The Front Struts ; These are immediately in the way and in jeopardy. They are very weak in the lower end and should be installed at the same time as the side frame rails. There is a 'ball 'that is formed by the 4 parts joining , easy to see. Adding the front upper frame hoop will help shore them up from behind. A plate with the top holes laid out to pin them during assy. Red or yellow warning tape helps too.

The Rear Struts ; Removing the top rear cowl removes the mounts for these struts. Pics show the bare metal of the struts emerge from the fairings and extend down to the rear of the side frame rails. WNW has provided another set of 'balls' there , this is where those struts would mount. I'll cut off the pin at the bottom of the struts and insert a length to be determined at the introduction of the top wing.

 The Engine Assy ;  The procedures outlined on page 3 and 7 of this thread regarding the a/m parts used on the top end , are viable. The templates and tools created take a lot of the guess work out of the use of these parts. The colored glue mix I highly recommend , I have been handling this assy by the rocker gear for most of this work and with little other than the removal of paint from the high points , has resulted in no issues. The top water pipe will need to be modded to clear the valve gear , I was able to tweak the kit part enough , barely , others can fab a new one . I can only recommend the resin a/m parts to very experienced modellers . The engine assy will drop straight down onto its mounts, good info for the multiply numerous times the assy will need to go in/out to detail properly.

The Engine Pod Panels ;  A number of options exist here to make your Gotha unique. The very top f-b panel would not be removed at all times, the panel provides a hinge mount for the lower scalloped panel to hinge up for access. These could be cut along the upwardly curved edge and 'hinged ' open. If you choose to not use the a/m engine gear this would be good for an engine start dio, and be very effective. Otherwise with good cleanup , the panels pop into place nicely. Remember to scrape the very bottom outside edges of the gas tanks , so the lower end of the panel goes all the way in. Keep the pod panels separate from each other! When it happens , you'll know why.

 I'll add as I see fit to this list.

 Also you may have noticed a thinning out of manufacturer's names , product names etc on this thread.
This is not a dis or any other kind of maliciously based thinking or act.

. After a session of this length a cleanup is in order . I have a comfortable stopping point and will need to get on with other work at this point.
Thanks for following along , I'll return as soon as The Gotha bug bites again.

 Mess to cleanup:
(https://i.ibb.co/VtvHhRR/IMG-5145.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZVhHw55)

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on January 19, 2019, 09:22:45 AM
You are a great Story Teller. Pause at just the moment you have us enthralled  ;D Looking forward to seeing you bitten by that Gotha Bug soon!
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 25, 2019, 04:01:15 PM
Thanks RIII.....
 Gotha nicely sleeping , a EL raises its head:
(https://i.ibb.co/x6RYnXQ/IMG-5198.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pd9QHbp)
13800
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: jeroen_R90S on January 26, 2019, 05:17:19 AM

 Jeroen is that your Gotha so predominant on the WNW customer model showcase?

Though we do share the same first name, I'm nowhere near as good as Jeroen Veen! So, unfortunately, no, it's not my Gotha...
(if it were, it would not fit in my display case and the kids would have wrecked it with a football or something -young boys and their energy levels!  ;D)

Jeroen
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on January 26, 2019, 08:15:13 AM
Thanks Jeroen.
Makes no diff.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: zavod44 on February 03, 2019, 12:50:40 PM
Hey Krow, you have any idea where the Fuel filler cap is on those fuel tanks? 
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on February 03, 2019, 01:23:42 PM
Hey Krow, you have any idea where the Fuel filler cap is on those fuel tanks?
No as I didn't add that detail with no visual reference. But that was thinking in terms of the exposed engine. They wouldn't expose the whole engine to fill the tank.
Thinking on those lines , there are numerous access doors moulded into the side panels of the pod. This is most likely where the filler was, and would be at the front as well for max filling.
So theres a little direction and some good clues to go on , I think the very front little door is a good guess. But after doing as much acceptable detail as poss in the front , there is a mass of wires and pipes etc.
When I 'go back in' I ll see what it looks like , the model in stowage for the moment.
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on April 06, 2019, 09:07:50 AM
Not back on this yet. Working on some things.
Some supply came in the form of more dio accy's and the bomb load for The Gotha:
(https://i.ibb.co/5TLPCVp/IMG-5584.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zdx0vC4)
Noseart ongoing:
(https://i.ibb.co/QNCx83m/IMG-5326.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T8bNKxh)
And 20 model base' fabricated from 400 year old cedar leftover from a sign job:
(https://i.ibb.co/PZgwLCY/IMG-5578.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GvRc6PJ)
Some of these will have laser burned details on them . like this cobblestone road burned into this base:
(https://i.ibb.co/gM8ry7X/IMG-5564.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWGLVNh)

Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: gbrivio on April 06, 2019, 08:11:21 PM
Beautiful finished engine bays, and great updates overall.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: RAGIII on April 06, 2019, 08:11:36 PM
Looking forward to when you get back to this one. The CSM omb cart and bombs should look great with your build. The nose art is Fantastic as are the bases.
RAGIII
Title: Re: The Gotha
Post by: krow113 on September 08, 2019, 10:13:46 PM
Thanks you guys.
When I get back on it I'll be doing the bulk of the work here:
https://www.facebook.com/Wingnut-Wings-Builders-Page-1297118540352413/?eid=ARBpZ6s8dC_TMc1109DlnixD_IUDtOu9iuKUPdank6qaXuXoCEx1rrG7wWztZz_ZUJSaj08kuRIxv4OV

 It has been great fun watching this thread and the people visiting , sometimes 150 in one day ! When I first came here the owner/creator and I had some conversations about modelling and the level of work that was being done. Des was a good guy to talk to and he encouraged me to try and develop the skills he displayed . That encouragement resulted in putting the time in develop the skills and get into WW ! aircraft modelling.
Its not the same now.