forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: p9o1r1sche on January 15, 2018, 12:56:54 PM

Title: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on January 15, 2018, 12:56:54 PM
I'm starting this build finally after dispatching an RC sailplane project and also in the middle of a FW190 build.  I usually have at least two builds going at the same time.  I saw a picture of this  prototype on the web and took a liking to it.  This plane took part in German fighter trials in March - April 1918, but was rejected due to the view downward being obstructed.  Only one prototype was constructed.

I first thought about modding a Fokker D.VII kit, but RLWP and RAGIII convinced me it would be easier to scratchbuild it, so here I go...

I found some drawings and a build log of an Omega Models 1/48 scale kit on a Dutch website, as well as a few pictures of the original to go by.
Richard also told me about Harry Woodman's book on scratchbuilding, so I got the relevant sections of that.
I also found a cheap 1/32 resin Merc engine from True Details that looked very good, better than the Roden one.
I will be using the D.VII type design and components to fill out the details as that plane was made about the same time.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/bw1per4nn/Fokker_V23_01.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/c8t3kxun7/Fokker_V23_02.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/wg6jd84z7/Fokker_V23_03.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I drew out the tail surfaces on some 0.040" sheeting.  0.030" was too flimsy.  I figured the actual surfaces were about 1" thick or so.
I also drew out one wing on 0.010" sheeting, but the lines don't show up on pics.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/x5pbpk2xv/Fokker_V23_04.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I've started the balsa wood cores for the wing. 

(https://s19.postimg.cc/f2w8ycu8j/Fokker_V23_05.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I have them rough shaped using a small plane (using a plane to make a plane).  Final sanding is next and then I'll try skinning them with the plastic sheeting.

Till next time...
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Des on January 15, 2018, 01:32:13 PM
A very interesting project you have taken on Ken and one that I will be following closely, looking forward to the next updates.

Des.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on January 15, 2018, 09:11:11 PM
but RLWP and RAGIII convinced me it would be easier to scratchbuild it

You don't want to listen to them...

I find a bit of sandpaper wrapped around a sanding block will shift balsa pretty quick, and it seems to be a more flexible way of working. So, the curve on a wing becomes a bit of sanding at varying angles

Another thing, don't sweat wing profiles too much. Get the edges of the balsa block very thin, after that - who is going to check the profile?

Really pleased to see someone else having a go at sratchbuilding

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Juan on January 15, 2018, 10:58:27 PM
Looking forward to your treatment on this one Ken.  Awesome subject you don't see everyday.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lone modeller on January 16, 2018, 05:10:42 AM
I wholly agree with Richard - nice to see someone else having a go. It is actually easier than many people think (and I used to be one of them). I also agree that balsa is best shaped using glass paper as it is soft and easy to work. This is a completely new type to me - another prototype which is very unlikely to ever be produced as a kit - so a learning experience to see one being built.

I will also be watching closely for any tricks or techniques which I can use on one of my own builds in future.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on January 29, 2018, 04:53:36 AM
Made a little progress on this, amid many other projects going on currently.

I got the balsa wing cores shaped with sandpaper.  The Fokker's wings are different from a lot of WW1 aircraft in that it is a thick airfoil.  The large end is the wing root, the small one is the tip.  I started with 3/8" thick balsa.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/5f1bd4mtf/Fokker_V23_06.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

This pic shows the plastic sheet wing skin.  I marked the center of the leading edge.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/r1gbu5do3/Fokker_V23_07.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

My first attempt:  attached the skin to the wing bottom with double sided tape and pulled the skin around the leading edge while heating with a heat gun.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/7wd2ketv7/Fokker_V23_08.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Oops - too much heat.  Note to self - use hair dryer, not heat gun.  Start over.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/xf5exexzn/Fokker_V23_09.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Take two: I put the leading edge of the wing core on the center of the wing skin and rolled it onto the core, bottom first, then around the top.  Used three strips of double sided tape on each side of the core. Heated the leading edge with a hair dryer as I went.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/val1wats3/Fokker_V23_10.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Looking at the wing root, the skin lifts off the core where there is no tape.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/st9ap2k6b/Fokker_V23_11.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I'll let this go this time, but on the next wing, I will cover it more completely with tape.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/mfk7lps43/Fokker_V23_12.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Glued and clamped the trailing edge.  I think the process of building the wing is okay.  On to the other wing.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/kazukpisj/Fokker_V23_13.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

If anyone has experience with building wings this way and has some tips for me, I would appreciate it.
Thanks.

Ken M.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lone modeller on January 29, 2018, 05:12:02 AM
I have not used this method Ken but may do so in future if I build another large aircraft. Looking at your attempts so far I would think that you have been very successful.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on January 29, 2018, 09:26:13 AM
Tips, well...

I use a fan heater, not a hairdryer or heat gun. So far all mine have had sharp leading edges, so I have been holding the skin between two blocks of wood

I always completely cover the balsa core with tape

Sorting out what happens at the wing tips is trying, you'll get there with persistence

I recently got a balsa core completely misplaced when sticking it to the outer skin. Pulling it off I destroyed the core...

Finally this bit: "I'll let this go this time" is a really good way of approaching this. You (and I) are not likely to get everything right first go, and finishing a 'plane is a better result than junking a project

Welcome to the Woodman Club - you are doing fine

I have a DeHavilland Cirrus Moth on the go on another forum: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=72068. I'm hoping to inspire a few Spitfire and fast jet builders. Must be mad

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on February 09, 2018, 09:54:15 AM
Richard - Your Moth is looking good.  Its coming together well.  Hope your injury isn't slowing you down too much.

Feb 7 Update

Some major parts cut out.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/qzh7vmbyr/Fokker_V23_14.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Getting the fuse started.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/ys7vnlxdf/Fokker_V23_15.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Squaring up the fuse.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/jw9cg11eb/Fokker_V23_16.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Putting the front fuse top on.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/dik9cr9cz/Fokker_V23_17.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I see a metal engine cover in my future!
(https://s19.postimg.cc/d5sv6llyb/Fokker_V23_18.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I'm planning to construct the cockpit in one piece and insert it up from the bottom before putting the bottom of the fuse on.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on February 09, 2018, 10:40:23 AM
Injury coming along nicely, thank you. Scar healing well and mobility of my finger improving by the day

Y'know, I was worried about this thread, that you might have got discouraged. It looks like it's the complete opposite!

I would build a styrene engine cover then stick alloy film to that. I'm interested to see what results you get, are you thinking of 'engine turning' it?

Model on - loving your work

Richard

I think Des would be delighted by this
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RAGIII on February 09, 2018, 10:53:29 PM
This is looking quite impressive! Hard to believe it is your first !
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on February 09, 2018, 11:57:36 PM
Discouraged? - what does that mean?

Once I get going on a project, I try to finish it.  I'll try using techniques that I think up first, if that doesn't work out, I'll try things that have worked for others.  A styrene engine cover is plan B.  I want to try a metal one first.  It would be more of a scale thickness and appearance.  I have always been envious of those that can work with sheet metal.
Not sure what you mean by 'engine turning'?
Construction so far has been very similar to that of an RC airplane built of balsa wood.  I have built many of those, so this is not really new to me, but it is the first I've done in plastic.
Now if I could only find more time to work on this.  I am also doing a major bathroom remodeling project in the house.

I was very saddened to hear of Des' passing.  I had corresponded with him regarding my Sopwith build and saw that he commented in almost every thread here with encouragement and praise.  He will be missed.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on February 10, 2018, 12:05:54 AM
Engine turning:

(https://img00.deviantart.net/6730/i/2006/152/9/e/sopwith_camel_by_photobeast.jpg)

(http://sadocrawl.dergoetz.com/Fokker_Cowl_and_new_Side_fairng.jpg)

I think you'll get frustrated with continually bending parts made only from thin alloy, it isn't elastic enough for handling. I'm still interested to see what you come up with - after all I could be wrong

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Juan on February 10, 2018, 12:12:26 AM
That is some impressive progress, she is coming to life.   :D
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on February 20, 2018, 12:17:32 PM
Update for Feb 19

No engine turning on this one.

I have not had much time to work on this lately, but managed to make some progress.

I dealt with the wing tips.  Cut the plastic sheeting off, hardened the balsa core with thin CA glue (RC building trick), and applied body putty.
I got the shape of the tips wrong, so I am reapplying putty to reshape them.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/4kjn7ur0z/Fokker_V23_19.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

This putty is solvent based and sands very easy.  Blends into the wing well.  With some primer, you shouldn't be able to see any line at the tip.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/ycgpn164j/Fokker_V23_20.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I put the engine together and painted it.  I found it was twisted all different ways, but still useable.  I didn't detail all of it since only the very top will be visible.  Looks like I will need to add a couple of small lines to it.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/7emslb8mr/Fokker_V23_21.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/wxf4ybkgz/Fokker_V23_22.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I also realized the top of the fuse is shaped wrong, so I will fix that soon.  It should be a lot flatter.  Will need to blend it in with the height of the engine.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on February 21, 2018, 12:07:18 AM
Did you try the other method of making the tips - by gluing the sheets together and trimming?

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RAGIII on February 21, 2018, 02:02:54 AM
Coming along very well! I am enjoying following along!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on February 21, 2018, 08:04:22 AM
No, didn't try gluing the sheets together because the wingtips are not very pointed at the ends.  This seemed to be a lot easier than trying to pull the top and bottom sheets together then gluing and getting the right shape.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on February 21, 2018, 08:21:19 AM
No, didn't try gluing the sheets together because the wingtips are not very pointed at the ends.  This seemed to be a lot easier than trying to pull the top and bottom sheets together then gluing and getting the right shape.

Ahh, that's OK

I had been expecting a post from you about how hard it is to get a good wingtip using Harry Woodman's method. I usually have to fill and sand to get a reasonable appearance

You have skipped the gluing and cursing and gone straight to filling and sanding. I'm looking forward to seeing how that works out as I may have to change my method

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on February 21, 2018, 11:51:11 PM
I could see that problem coming with this wing, so I decided to do something different.

I have removed the top forward part of the fuse and reshaped the formers to a flatter profile.  Will be re-skinning it next.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on February 22, 2018, 01:42:51 AM
I could see that problem coming with this wing, so I decided to do something different.

Hmmm, that's disappointing. Still plenty more traps ahead...

 ;D

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Borsos on February 22, 2018, 02:53:29 AM
That's truely a masterful build here, I really love your scratchbuilt!
Best regards
Borsos
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lone modeller on February 22, 2018, 06:07:14 AM
I am watching with great interest. You have made some first class wings and I am intrigued to find out how you will get on with a metal cowling.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on February 26, 2018, 10:52:06 AM
Thanks for all the positive comments.  Hopefully others can use some of the ideas here.

Update for Feb 25

Getting more time to work on this.  It's getting interesting now with more details being fabricated.

A little cutting, a little soldering, a little filing, and you have the framework for the cockpit.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/hhznspb2r/Fokker_V23_23.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The sides are soldered.  The cross pieces are CA glued.  Didn't want to screw up the soldering on the sides by trying to solder the cross pieces in.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/u9dtz80ab/Fokker_V23_24.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

It even fits!
(https://s19.postimg.cc/s4tgy3w2r/Fokker_V23_25.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Making a seat cushion.  Rolled out some Milliput about 1.5 mm thick.  Cover with plastic food wrap.  Poke it with a toothpick.  Let it cure.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/cjc5e5zk3/Fokker_V23_26.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The bottom of the fuse will have monofilament stitching.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/7xg15t6b7/Fokker_V23_27.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)


(https://s19.postimg.cc/dydq2vdhv/Fokker_V23_28.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Getting on with the cockpit doohickeys.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/y5r5v7dk3/Fokker_V23_29.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I'm working in a roundabout fashion, jumping from one thing to another in random order.  The wings and tail surfaces still need detailing.
I'll have to start painting soon.
Sorry for the blurry pics.  I am hand holding the camera for long exposures.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Juan on February 26, 2018, 11:03:19 AM
Looking good Ken, great ideas I will be saving for future use.  Thanks and looking forward to your progress.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Manni on February 26, 2018, 05:26:24 PM
Superb scratchbuild. The trick with the seat cushion is very clever.
Bye,
Manni
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on February 26, 2018, 07:59:06 PM

The sides are soldered.  The cross pieces are CA glued.  Didn't want to screw up the soldering on the sides by trying to solder the cross pieces in.

That framing is splendid. Get yourself some low melting point solder and you can solder the cross pieces in on your next build

The low melting point stuff also seems to flow better so you can get really nice joints

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on February 26, 2018, 11:26:59 PM
Thanks for the tip, Richard.  I also find that liquid flux is better than paste flux at promoting flow in the joints.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on February 26, 2018, 11:38:48 PM
Thanks for the tip, Richard.  I also find that liquid flux is better than paste flux at promoting flow in the joints.

Opposite for me, I use Powerflow flux from Fry.

And like many things, what works for me may not work for you

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: coyotemagic on February 28, 2018, 03:07:07 AM
Spectacular work, Ken!  She's shaping up beautifully!
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lone modeller on February 28, 2018, 09:09:18 AM
Brilliant use of different materials. Your soldering looks very neat to me. Will continue to follow this with great interest.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RAGIII on February 28, 2018, 10:03:53 AM
Spectacular work, Ken!  She's shaping up beautifully!
Cheers,
Bud

I agree completely with my Amigo !
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on February 28, 2018, 11:45:33 PM
Thanks for all the kind words, gentlemen.  It's very encouraging.

The value of forums like this is that methods and techniques can be shared to create works of art.  I think this was Des's intention.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on March 10, 2018, 12:12:05 PM
Update for March 9

Getting to the fiddly bits now.

I made a couple more seat cushions.  The first one had the pleats in the wrong place.  The nail-like objects are the buttons for the cushion.
They are made by holding a piece of monofilament near a flame.  The heat makes the end shrink back and knot up.  Put them through holes drilled in the cushion and superglue from the back.  Trim off the monofilament ends with a hobby knife.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/qhmhbrj5v/Fokker_V23_30.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The fuel tank air pump, seat, tail skid, and instrument panel (not quite finished).  Still need to make the hand cranked magneto thingamabob.  Let me know if I'm getting too technical.  Instrument faces by Airscale decals.  I turned out the bezels on my lathe.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/4ig2okhr7/Fokker_V23_31.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Cockpit framing - the wire bracing loops in the corners are larger than I wanted, but they won't be very visible.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/45ooidrrn/Fokker_V23_32.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/5kq973df7/Fokker_V23_33.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Still more details to make for the cockpit. 
I decided I don't like the wings.  They are too big, so I plan to cut them down a bit.  The chord and span is too large.

Keep on modelling!
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on March 10, 2018, 08:02:38 PM
you seem to have taken to scratchbuilding like a duck to water! Love those bezels

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RAGIII on March 11, 2018, 05:33:24 AM
Excellent work on the interior! I am so glad you decided to scratch build tis one as your work on a "FIRST" scratchbuild is inspiring!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: aircooled on March 11, 2018, 10:46:11 PM
Curious as to what kind of lathe you are using on this project.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Juan on March 11, 2018, 11:55:31 PM
Outstanding work all around.  I applaud your efforts and the results.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lone modeller on March 12, 2018, 04:46:56 AM
That is a lovely bit of scratchbuilding there: the seats are very good and the general cockpit interior is first class.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Borsos on March 12, 2018, 06:37:10 AM
That's an impressive cockpit and a clever way to create a seat cushion. It's going to be a very nice model!
Borsos
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on March 12, 2018, 09:01:20 AM
Thanks for words of encouragement.  It keeps me motivated.

I've been working on the cockpit and only have a couple of things to add to it to finish it.

The lathe I have is one of the 'cheap' Chinese 7 X 10 jobs.  People say they are crap but the bed is solid cast metal so its sturdy and if you know how to tune them up (check minilathe .com) you can hold +/- 0.001" easily.  Some parts do wear and have to be replaced every few years.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on March 12, 2018, 10:36:56 AM
Thanks for words of encouragement.  It keeps me motivated.

I've been working on the cockpit and only have a couple of things to add to it to finish it.

The lathe I have is one of the 'cheap' Chinese 7 X 10 jobs.  People say they are crap but the bed is solid cast metal so its sturdy and if you know how to tune them up (check minilathe .com) you can hold +/- 0.001" easily.  Some parts do wear and have to be replaced every few years.

I would love to see some of your lathe setups for making those small bezels. To do turning that small you need really sharp tools and very accurate tool setting, and a lot of skill

I usually turn stuff like that by hand using a hand graver

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Manni on March 12, 2018, 05:50:22 PM
 :o ...the brezels....cool
Manni
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on March 15, 2018, 10:28:20 AM
March 14 update

Been focused on the cockpit and lack only a harness.  I'll have to order one.  In the meantime there is plenty more work to do.

According to my D.VII references, it appears Fokker wrapped the bracing turnbuckles in linen, presumably to keep them from wearing through the fuse covering.  This makes it easy to simulate.  I tied two simple knots about 6 - 8 mm apart in some 0.005" monofilament line.  I did not pull the knots tight, but left the knots about 1 mm open.  I passed each end of the line through the loops in the frame.  Then passed each end through each of the knots, the ends going in opposite directions.  Then pull the ends tight.  This tightens up the whole line so there is no sagging and the knots will hold it.  Coat everthing between the knots with thick CA glue and let cure.  Then paint white and weather with some gray grime.  Presto! - simulated bracing turnbuckles that didn't cost any more than the monofilament line.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/sakdwnp77/Fokker_V23_34.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I used monofilament to attach the back of the cockpit.  Painted CDL color and weathered.  The monofilament line, however needs to be colored white.  Too late for this build, so that will be for next time.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/7qfjy7jqr/Fokker_V23_36.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Since this is a prototype plane with no guns, I left the ammo box open on top.  I put the box in because without it, one could see up to the next bulkhead in the fuse, which I wanted to hide as much as possible.  The flex cable for the tach is a wound guitar string.  It has very fine winding detail.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/tplylesv7/Fokker_V23_38.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

With the seat in position.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/fj67q5uur/Fokker_V23_39.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/4wcekr24z/Fokker_V23_40.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I haven't finished any other part of the plane yet, so more updates coming.  The devil makes work for idle hands!

Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: GazzaS on March 24, 2018, 07:03:24 PM
I love the scratch built detail you've put together!

Gaz
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on March 25, 2018, 12:01:02 AM
Thank you GrazzaS. I appreciate your posting.

Ken
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RAGIII on March 25, 2018, 12:05:03 AM
Your cockpit looks as good as ANY super detailed WNW DVII pit! Of course even better in that it is scratch built!!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lcarroll on March 25, 2018, 12:18:50 AM
    Incredibly beautiful detail Ken, and it looks real to a degree I truly envy! Scratch Built you say? This is some very impressive work, great modelling!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: PrzemoL on March 27, 2018, 11:35:01 PM
Great modelling. Spectacular results with that cockpit.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: GAJouette on March 28, 2018, 03:55:46 AM
 Ken,
Excellent work on her cockpit section my friend. I'm looking forward to seeing it with the seat and belts in place. Keep up the high excellence!
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: dr 1 ace on March 28, 2018, 09:33:38 AM
Great work all the way around !

Ed
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 02, 2018, 09:27:26 AM
I am honored to see such complementary comments from you heavy hitters.  Thank you. 
I try to improve my techniques and try new things on every model I build.  I have made lots of scratchbuilt parts, but this is the first whole model I have scratchbuilt.

Update for April 1

Seems like things are going slow at this point, but I have put in a lot of time.  I corrected the wings and painted them, and worked out the control connections.  Decalling is started.  I have simulated rib taping with decal strips on the rudder.  I moved the cockpit forward some to better match the photos.  One major learning I am taking away from this build is do not trust drawings made by others.  I based the model on some drawings that just didn't match the photos and this is the reason for all the corrections.

I have made engine covers from sheet aluminum.  They are very fragile, so this may not be a good construction technique for some applications.  I have not decided how to finish them as yet. I also have some aluminum tape used for HVAC ductwork that looks like a good covering material, like Bare Metal Foil, only thick enough to sand and polish.
Covers in place for a test fitting.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/pkh98xn5f/Fokker_V23_41.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/j6s65opz7/Fokker_V23_42.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/xd7x0x8k3/Fokker_V23_43.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

The crankcase on the engine was so twisted that I elected to cut the cylinders free and just mount the cylinders in the model.  only the very top will be showing.  One has to be practical.
continuing on...
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lcarroll on April 02, 2018, 10:20:07 AM
    Your engine cover cowlings look great, what gauge or thickness is the stock and where did you get it? I'd really like to try to do some similar and any
hints would be much appreciated!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: GAJouette on April 02, 2018, 11:39:03 AM
 Ken,
That's just awesome work my friend. I can't wait to see more!
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on April 02, 2018, 07:40:37 PM
I moved the cockpit forward some to better match the photos.  One major learning I am taking away from this build is do not trust drawings made by others.  I based the model on some drawings that just didn't match the photos and this is the reason for all the corrections.

Indeed. My take is a drawing is as much a model of an aeroplane as the the 3D thing I'm making. And making models of models isn't a good way of recreating 'planes.

Someone had to do some research, study pictures and use what reference material they could to make the drawings. They work to the best of their ability and in good faith, they are not infallible. Best to do your own research too - you'll probably learn something

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RAGIII on April 02, 2018, 11:26:40 PM
Continuing to be an outstanding piece of scratch building! I Love your cowl panels!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 03, 2018, 01:56:53 AM
Hello Lance - The aluminum is from a pie pan shown in post #8.  It is 0.006" thick and is partially work hardened from the pressing operation to form the pan.  I am able to cut it with scissors and can sand the edges carefully for fine shaping.  The scissors will deform the edge when cut, so I flatten it back out by rolling the smooth handle of a hobby knife over the metal against a hard surface.  Rolling the knife handle on the metal also makes it curl slightly, so if I want it flat, I turn it over and roll against the other side.  The more pressure you apply when rolling, the more curl.  I attempted to do this engine cover in metal because it is basically a simple curve.  If it was a compound curve, I would have gone with vac-formed styrene like I did for the bottom cowling.  I made a paper pattern to start with (seen in the first photo of my last post).

Richard - You are right about drawings.  This plane has next to no documentation and only a few pictures to go by -  A double edged sword as you can make up your own details, but the overall look should match photos as much as possible.

Gregory and RAGIII - thanks for following along and posting.  Its nice to know others are interested.
I'll soon be working on landing gear.  I found some rubber O rings I can use for tires.  The wheels will require more lathe work, which I like doing.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 09, 2018, 02:34:11 AM
Update for April 8

Made some significant  progress lately.  Decaled the fuselage and put on the aluminum panels, installed the harness in the cockpit, and started the landing gear.
Again, sorry for the blurry pictures.

Finished cockpit before installing in fuselage.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/8h0c0058z/Fokker_V23_44.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Turning the wheels.  Made them in two halves which will be glued together.  Hard to get a good picture with all the reflections, but the cutter is making the dished part of the wheel.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/npq9dnwbn/Fokker_V23_45.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Finished wheels - the two halves and one assembled.  O rings for tires.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/npq9dp6mb/Fokker_V23_46.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Making a pattern for the front of the cowling.  The rear part is on.  Made these with aluminum tape used for air conditioning ductwork.  It can be difficult to work with as the adhesive is very strong, so it can't be pulled up without ruining it, and it will lift up any decal it is applied on.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/cq5222lc3/Fokker_V23_47.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

This shot shows the aluminum work done.  I will tone it down with some Tamiya flat clear after installing the engine cylinders and exhaust.  I will detail it with fasteners and access hatches.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/ryuzfvx0z/Fokker_V23_48.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Disaster struck when I glued the elevator the to horizontal stabilizer.  The liquid cement ran over the elevator and ruined the decals in a couple of spots, which I patched.  Pattern-wise it looks good, but the surface is rough now.  The white hinges will be painted a dark gray.  Rib stitching tape to be added to the horizontal stabilizer.

(https://s19.postimg.cc/t155yekz7/Fokker_V23_49.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

So that's where I'm at presently.  I've started on the landing gear struts and the airfoil for the axle.

Till next time...
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on April 09, 2018, 03:45:11 AM
Now, 'O' rings for tyres. I painted mine on the Morane Saulnier with Halfords Primer, then grey acrylic paint. They have gone sticky and split

Do a test with your intended paint

Oh, and lathe photography - after a lot of failures, I usually take pictures with the motor off now. It's less stressful so I get better pictures

I love those aluminium panels

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: krow113 on April 09, 2018, 05:36:01 AM
Going well!
Try sanding those O ring tires with steel wool or different grades of paper . Ive put rubber tires on a pill bottle and into the lathe for some quick 'miles' with sandpaper.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 09, 2018, 07:35:48 AM
Hi Richard - I know about rubber and solvent based paints - I never mix them.  Is the Halfords primer solvent based? 
I have put clear flat acrylic paint on rubber 'tires' with no issues, however, 'tyres' I don't know about  ;D.

krow113 - I forgot about sanding the tires.  I used to do that on all my model car tires.  I made some mandrels to turn them on the lathe or drill while sanding.   May do that if there is some issue with acrylic paint.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on April 09, 2018, 07:44:38 AM
Tires/Tyres

Sometimes, you colonials use forms of English we grew out of centuries ago. Pants, for instance. And sometimes you got lazy and chose phonetic spelling instead

I can't help it if you mangle our language...

 ;D

I was surprised by the nitrile 'O' rings behaviour/behavior. I thought they would be OK

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 09, 2018, 09:46:50 PM
"I can't help it if you mangle our language..."

Well, we have to do things our way.  You can always tell an American, but you can't tell him much.  ;)
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RAGIII on April 09, 2018, 11:36:25 PM
Nose panels and Lozenge are looking great! I don't know about tyres but I am not tired of seeing your outstanding progress  ::)
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 19, 2018, 10:02:41 PM
test post

(https://s19.postimg.cc/t155yekz7/Fokker_V23_49.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on April 20, 2018, 02:14:23 AM
test post

(https://s19.postimg.cc/t155yekz7/Fokker_V23_49.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I can see it - have I passed the test?
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 20, 2018, 10:28:36 PM
Yes!
Postimage had to move to another URL? so I lost all the posted pictures in this thread.  I may fix it sometime, but going forward the new pictures should be visible.

Haven't been able to work on this due to my work schedule this week, but should be able to get back on it soon.
I have finished the landing gear and attached to fuse, so it stands on its legs now, almost finished with the rudder, which can then be attached.  Gluing on the engine cowling will be next.  I'll need to start on a prop soon, too.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 22, 2018, 02:11:59 AM
Update for April 21

Construction of landing gear airfoil.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/x02gz3imb/Fokker_V23_50.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Assembled landing gear.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/k8oasmj4z/Fokker_V23_52.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Tail skid detail.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/pwuljhkwj/Fokker_V23_53.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Starting to look like the photos of the real thing.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/k8oasl14j/Fokker_V23_56.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Control wire details.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/u799eiseb/Fokker_V23_58.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/u799ejuz7/Fokker_V23_59.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Cowling detail.  I plan to spray more flat clear and then start weathering.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/t4z2w0jvn/Fokker_V23_60.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/py4jcdcab/Fokker_V23_61.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/thqh267ab/Fokker_V23_63.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Only a few more large items to make: headrest, windshield, prop, filler tubes, etc.

Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RAGIII on April 22, 2018, 03:09:50 AM
WOW!!!! This one is looking absolutely AWESOME! I am really glad you decided to scratch build vs Converting a WNW DVII...and I amagine you are also  ;D
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lone modeller on April 22, 2018, 03:15:21 AM
Just catching up as life has been on top recently. Wholly agree with Rick: this is a truly outstanding piece of scratch building with a super finish.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: ermeio on April 22, 2018, 05:12:10 AM
excellent progress..
outstanding model
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: Borsos on April 22, 2018, 05:24:40 AM
Absolutely breathtaking! A wonderfully executed scratchbuild.
Best regards
Borsos
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: gbrivio on April 22, 2018, 05:43:40 AM
Great build log, and an excellent model. Thank you for sharing, it might be very useful.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: krow113 on April 22, 2018, 07:40:16 AM
Very nice.
Calm , orderly progression.
Whats that like?
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on April 22, 2018, 08:27:08 AM
The phrase 'duck to water' seems appropriate to your dabbling in scratchbuilding

Love it

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 29, 2018, 12:28:23 AM
Thanks again for all the compliments, guys.  I do appreciate them.

Update for April 28

Finishing up some parts now.
I made this prop from layers of colored paper - a manila folder and a brown report cover.  I laminated the paper with thin CA glue and put it in a vice until it cured.  It came out hard as a rock.

Rough shaped it using a milling machine and the Dremel drill press.  Started with a sanding drum attachment, but it clogged up pretty fast.  Next I tried this burr which was only marginally better.  Ended up using a 1/8" end mill which worked best.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/g34plv537/Fokker_V23_65.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Sanded prop with machined prop hub.  I did most of the sanding on a belt sander to make short work of it.  I'll be adding bolts to the hub.  Prop will be clear coated and painted with Tamiya clear orange to finish it.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/m42eiyeur/Fokker_V23_66.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s19.postimg.cc/rs8p9ubhf/Fokker_V23_67.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

I made the cockpit coaming with Miliput formed on a plastic card with the same shape as the cockpit cutout.
(https://s19.postimg.cc/jmqnbp2o3/Fokker_V23_68.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

Only the windshield and fuel gauge is left to make.  Then weathering, so this will likely be the last update in this thread.
Thanks to all who followed this build.  Look for the unveiling in the completed builds thread.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RLWP on April 29, 2018, 02:55:10 AM
That prop is lovely

I usually make them old school with a coarse file and sandpaper. It doesn't take long

Richard
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lcarroll on April 29, 2018, 04:02:13 AM
    Your prop is an excellent touch, I'm amazed that it's paper and the laminations are excellent! Like Richard I use a knife, file, and sand paper as well (on wood) When I started carving my own I used a drum sander but found it too easy to go just a bit too far, so I reverted to the old trusty slower method.
   A fine model you've got here, and I'm looking forward to your Finished Model photos. 8) 8)
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: lone modeller on April 29, 2018, 09:05:55 PM
That is a lovely propellor. Like Lance and Richard I use the older sandpaper and file method, but yours seems to have worked really well. The boss is excellent too.

Stephen.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: p9o1r1sche on April 30, 2018, 12:04:35 AM
After clear coating and applying Tamiya clear orange, the prop looks really good.  I tried to use the correct number of layers (8-9).  If you look closely, the brown layer has red layers on either side.  This is how the report cover got a reddish brown color.  Not what I expected.
I was going to add bolts to the prop hub, but after seeing it as is, it just looks too good to add to it and risk detracting from the appearance. 
The model only lacks a windshield, which I will make today.

Again, thanks for following along and commenting.
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: gbrivio on April 30, 2018, 12:50:19 AM
Your propeller is looking nice, and will be a fine addition to tour Fokker.
Giuseppe
Title: Re: 1/32 Fokker v.23 - my first scratchbuild
Post by: RAGIII on April 30, 2018, 05:53:58 AM
Nice work on the prop. You are almost there now. It has been a great build to follow along. Looking forward to seeing the conclusion!
RAGIII