forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: lone modeller on September 02, 2017, 08:34:28 AM
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Evening All,
This project is being built as part of a Flying Boats Group Build on another site. I usually make small models because I only live in a small house and do not have the space to display large ones. Stevehed introduced me to prototype German giant aircraft of WW1 with his DFW R1 scratch build a couple of years ago, and last year I discovered the Siemens-Schuchert Werke Rs I while looking through photos on the net. I discovered the subject of this build at the same time and knew immediately that I wanted to give it a try. Fortunately the internet has made access to information on these early types much easier than it used to be: in addition there is a Windsock DataFile (no 136) which also contains information and drawings, although the drawings for the machine that I wish to model are at 1/144 scale so I have had to enlarge them to the Correct Scale i.e. 1/72. My intention with this build, as it is with all of my builds, is to demonstrate what can be done by an average modeller with simple tools and a minimum of expensive equipment, and limited skill but some patience! I hope to shape and scrape my way to something that will resemble this:
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/SavinCristian/8377L.jpg
http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Putnam/German_Giants/65-1.jpg
My apologies for not providing a photo but I am not sure about copyright restrictions and I do not wish to bring problems to the site by using pictures without prior permission. These were taken in November 1916 at the Zeppelin shed at Seemoos, Lindau, on Lake Constance where the aircraft was built. I intend to make a small diorama based on the turntable and slipway in front of the shed as shown in these photos so that I can display what will be for me a large model. (The wingspan is approximately 17 1/2 inches: 44 cm and the length 13 inches: 33 cm). I will provide details of the diorama build in the appropriate part of this site in due course. Incidentally the figure in the Homburg hat at the bottom right of the first photo is Claudius Dornier.
I write "resemble the above" because the picture shows the Rs II in its final form with the engines in cowlings and a simple tail unit. I intend to model the machine with the engines in cowlings but with an earlier version of the tail which looked something like this:
http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Putnam/German_Giants/63-2.jpg
Note the large fins and rudders and the biplane elevator. Here the engines are without cowlings: these were added later because the engines ran too cold. The building in the background is the Zeppelin shed at Seemoos.
C. Dornier was working for Graf Zeppelin when in August 1914 he was charged with the design of a number of large flying boats for the Imperial German Navy: the flying boats were to be used to monitor Scapa Flow which was the principal base of the Royal Navy’s Grand Fleet. His Rs I design was a huge biplane with a wingspan of 43.5m: it was constructed largely from steel alloy using airship construction practices. This machine was one of the first all-metal aircraft to be built and flown, when most aircraft were made from wood and linen held together with lots of wire, but it was wrecked in a storm on Lake Constance on 21 December 1915. Dornier's second design was very different from the first and incorporated features which were to characterise subsequent flying boats from this team. They included a very broad hull and a low aspect ratio main plane which was mounted parasol fashion high above the hull. Although the first version had three engines in the hull, these were quickly increased to four and mounted in tandem between the hull and wing, driving push and pull propellors. Small stub wings were fixed to the rear of the hull: on later designs these became full sponsons. The tail unit was on booms which were left uncovered to avoid damage from spray when taxiing. The early booms were made from lattice girders but these were quickly replaced by stronger large diameter steel tube, and the original central fin was replaced by a pair of fins and rudders. The elevator was of biplane form. In the final version of the Rs II the tail boom, rudders and elevator were simplified and it only remained for the design team to change the boom to a single fuselage mounted above the wing on the Rs III for the basic shape of the classic Dornier flying boats of the inter-war and wartime periods to emerge.
Here is my kit for the build: it is not quite complete as I am sure that I will require additional items as I go along:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4403/36732357362_2dc3698a3f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XXUW7f)
It includes basswood for the hull, plastic sheet of various thicknesses, assorted strip, wood for the propellors, brass rod for the booms and copper wire for the rigging. I will write the instructions as I go along as usual. Additional materials will be required for the base but that need not distract us here. The first stage was to make up units which will become the hull, wings and engine nacelles. The engine nacelles are to be made from three pieces of 60 thou card and one of 20 thou which have been laminated.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4380/36902705235_3e7d274abb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YdY1Ax)[
The hull is going to be made from a sandwich of 2 pieces of 1.3cm x 16.6cm x 6.3cm basswood with a sheet 0.7cm thick wood between.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4429/36902714525_fa49828bcc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YdY4mH)
The wings will be made in two sections from three sheets of 60 thou card, laminated, shaped and then butt joined, reinforced with metal pins as on the SSW.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4365/36902709215_9bed1305b3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YdY2Ma)
The wing and hull blocks now look like this:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4355/36902713245_00a6d0a3a8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YdY3YD)
......which means that I can now spend many happy hours scraping and shaping.........
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/SavinCristian/8377L.jpg)
Wow! What a monster
Richard
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As per wonderful usual,we are going to be in for another treat from a great modeller.Brilliant and interesting subject to.
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I'm in!
Another unusual bird from the bench of the master of unusual birds! Now, where's my popcorn.....
Ian
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As always I will follow your progress closely! A very interesting and unusual subject as always!
RAGIII
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A very ambitious project Stephen and one I will be following closely.
Des.
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Stephen,
Great subject, and a monster! This should be a particularly enjoyable Build to follow given the foregoing, I'll be watching for updates and I am looking forward to this one immensely!
Cheers,
Lance
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Looking forward to a fantastic build of this beast, she will be beautiful when done.
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I just know this will be awesome.
Alan.
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Evening All,
Many thanks to those of you who have dropped by and left such positive remarks. No pressure then! Yes this will be a big model when it is completed, but I am hoping that if I can mount it properly on the base which I have planned in my imagination it will be a satisfying project.
Before I started I decided that I needed some new tools. Well if I am to shape the hull I was not going to get far with the needle files that I normally use for modelling so I went out and treated myself to these:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4372/36880335676_4d77a4743f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YbZmUu)
Not the latest in high tech or the most expensive tools around but they were within my limited budget and ideal for the task I had in mind. There was a third round file in the set but I have not had to use that yet, maybe I will later. Bought them from a hardware store round the corner and I was even able to walk to the premises rather than having to drive miles to some horrible industrial park in Kent.
The hull is made from a block of laminated basswood: I have not carved basswood before but would readily do so again if the need arises. It is lovely material to work with: hard but not stiff to file or sand, makes a really good smooth surface which once sealed should be easy to paint, and is robust enough to hold in a vice and not be damaged in the process. I enjoyed making this so far - I hope it continues when I do the extra work later.
Scraping and shaping 1
If you know how to carve shapes from a block of wood I apologise if what follows is tedious and I suggest that you skip this section and just look at the photos as this is intended for those who are not familiar with carving. It is not difficult, it just takes a little time, (or in my case a lot - about 5 hours for what you see at the end of this post). I started by filing the top of the hull to get the correct curved section and then I marked plan on the top surface of the block and sawed away the front corners to make things a little quicker. I also sawed away the section under the nose as I followed the line of the hull side that I had originally drawn and started to file away at the sides to get the correct plan shape. Having almost completed the filing of the sides I realised that I had made a major mistake. I had got carried away with the saw and had cut off the lower half of the bow!! I now intend to use this dud hull as a practice piece for later operations. Back to laminating three pieces of basswood and leaving the lot to dry out overnight under a pile of books: my low tech press.
Try number 2: this time I repeated the procedure above to the part where I cut off the corners for the bow section, but this time I made sure that I left the underside well alone. The top of the hull was once again filed to the correct profile:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4338/36637518685_ee80a7ce34_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XPwRSD)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4405/36672034840_52a6091ee5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XSzLjL)
The plan was marked on the top of the hull and a series of lines drawn at 90 degrees at fixed points to help make sure that I did not get carried away when shaping the sides:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4357/36233820514_f39ab1e2aa_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XcRNtm)
More filing....until this shape was reached:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4352/36672047240_589705e218_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XSzQ1y)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4340/36672040340_1d72d23f31_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XSzMXA)
The line running across the front end of the hull becomes important at this stage because there has a subtle curve here which I presume was to allow spray water to drain away quickly. Careful use of the file enabled me to shape the upper surface forward of the line. I worked on each side in turn using photographs to get what I think is the correct profile.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4356/36233843514_d74f95fbb7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XcRViU)
Now for the tricky bit: to get the area of the upper hull to the rear of the line to curve downwards to meet the new side profile forward of the line. The centre line was very important because this is the highest point on the nose of the hull and was used as a guide when drawing the file across the side: more strokes and greater pressure towards the side, almost no pressure and few strokes towards the centre line. I had to work slowly and methodically and towards the end I used coarse grade glass paper to finish the job, again working on each side in turn.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4363/36672066790_7dcf5326b3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XSzVPC)
Polishing was done with flour grade glass paper, and the top profile of the hull is finished.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4361/36672076240_e83c68464a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XSzYCy)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4409/36672071060_6748ceb0ac_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XSzX6f)
I will make the steps at the rear of the hull next, but before I let myself loose on the new hull I will try out an idea on the old one first. Then I will not have wasted 5 hours of work and another block of wood if something goes wrong.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Looking good Stephen. Are you going to use this as a buck to mould the hull, or will you use the wood itself?
Ian
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Ok, I am taking a seat in the first row with a bucket of popcorn! ;)
Ondra
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Looking good Stephen. Are you going to use this as a buck to mould the hull, or will you use the wood itself?
Ian
I intend to use the wooden hull Ian. I had thought of making it into a mould but the sheer size of this makes push moulding difficult. If I try to mould a top and bottom I will have problems with the hull keel - it is very difficult to get right. In addition this is a big model (for me) and I want to try to finish it within the time of the GB which runs to the beginning of January 2018. I do not mind having a solid hull as I cannot find any detail on the interior and even if I could it would not be visible! A solid hull will hopefully make a stronger model.
Stephen.
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Ok, I am taking a seat in the first row with a bucket of popcorn! ;)
Ondra
Thanks Ondra for your support - it is greatly appreciated.
Stephen.
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Wow, this will be a great tutorial for scratch building. I will take a seat,too.
Manni
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Very interesting work you are doing here, Stephen. Hand carving is not a common technique these days and by the looks of the results of your efforts you do it well! It brings back fond memories for me, I did a hand carved scratch build of my Father's ship, a Royal Canadian Navy Destroyer as a teen ager for presentation to the Captain who was retiring using the same technique as yours here. It was a very rewarding experience as it was a one of a kind model and turned out (in my opinion at least!) a top class model.
Great start to your Build, and I'll be following closely.
Cheers,
Lance
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Very careful handling of a huge piece of wood - I have to follow that!
Cheers,
Frank
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Evening All,
Welcome Manni and Frank - I hope that I can offer you some new ideas along the way.
Lance: many thanks for your complimentary remarks: what a shame you could not provide any photographs of the ship that you made as I am sure that it was a first class model if your current builds are anything to go by. I am very slow at carving, which is a good thing because as anyone who has attempted it soon learns, it is easy to remove material but nearly impossible to put it back, as I have already demonstrated with this model! I did not have to use card templates with this hull but I do use them when I am making some moulds.
I have completed the steps at the rear of the hull, without making a mess of things and having to start all over again. So...
Shaping and scraping 2
I cut out the whole of the lower rear of the hull - two cuts, one horizontal and one vertical. I then sanded the upper corners smooth as these will be visible when the steps are complete. Two lines were drawn on the horizontal surface to mark where the steps will be.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4337/36315004103_6ec8a1e87c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xk2Twp)
The third line is the centre line and is used to make measurements to keep things symmetrical. The block which I had removed from the hull was cut into three sections, using the dimensions measured from the hull horizontal surface above. The centre section was carefully put to one side and the two side pieces had lines drawn on them to mark the top of the step. This surface is not completely flat: it slopes more at the front end than the rear. One side was then glued to the gap in the hull rear and allowed to dry out overnight. This was then filed down to the lines on each side and polished with fine glass paper to leave a flat surface as shown on this trial block which was my first (failed) attempt to carve the hull:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4386/36315021123_1caa0e9a46_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xk2YzR)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4391/36315016803_de7db38491_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xk2Xin)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4332/36315025453_1d43371009_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xk2ZSv)
The third picture shows that the fit on the trial piece was not quite as good as I would have wanted (and achieved) on the real piece: it was after all done to prove a concept and it worked. When the one side step was finished the above operation was repeated for the other side:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4433/36315006853_8c45d8838d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xk2UkP)
The centre section had to have the sides adjusted with some glass paper to make a really tight fit, but once it could be pushed into the gap I again drew lines on the sides to mark the edges of the hull bottom. I glued the inside surfaces of the hull, tapped the centre piece into place and let the glue set. The top could then be shaped as before with a file, polished with glass paper and the very small gaps filled with putty.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4384/36315009753_35ee960a11_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xk2VcP)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4369/36315012283_98af6ba37c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xk2VXr)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4376/36730982710_3a16da4852_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XXMTtm)
They have now been sanded smooth and I am ready to tackle the hull under the bow. You can see that I have been trying both the round and half round files on the test hull and have concluded that the half round file is the more suitable tool. I just hope that I do not make a mess of the next step as there is a lot of time invested in the hull now!
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Loving this!
Richard
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Evening All,
Thanks Richard for the encouragement. Working with wood is rather different to working with plastic or metal, but I do find it satisfying.
I have completed the scraping and shaping of the bow, and managed to do so without taking off too much material, and I have kept it symmetrical. I do have a card former which was made from one of the section drawings in the DF but the problem is that it only applies to one part of the bow - the rest has to be estimated by Mk 1 eyeball. I used a half round file for this task as the curve is larger and flatter than the round file. This gave a broader curve and made the overall shaping easier, but I also had to take care not to remove too much wood. I had drawn the centre line on the bottom of the hull before I started - this was essential if the bow sides were to be symmetrical. I carved one side first so that it was almost complete, and then I carved the other until it was in the same state. I took out material from the mid point between the centre line on the bottom of the hull, and the line on the side of the hull marking the vertical section. To start with the edge of the wood looked awful but by gradually extending the line of cut laterally in both directions by using the curve of the file blade, and continuing to remove material from the central area, the desired shape gradually appeared. Finally I took a little wood off each side alternately as shown in the photos below, until I judged that the keel was thin enough and the curve was as close as I could get to the card former. I have never shaped a bow before - this was a first attempt, so please be considerate and leave the micrometers in the back pocket when looking at it!
The pencil marks on the port (left) side show where I still need to take off more wood. By marking the area in this way the other areas are not accidentally worn away and the desired shape lost.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4350/37020901036_5ba968faca_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YppN6b)
This second view shows the marks on the starboard (right) side of the nose where I had previously used the file. This area had also been marked with a pencil as shown above.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4395/37020896496_e3ba17646e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YppLJU)
The left and right sides respectively of the completed hull showing the line where the vertical sides meet the planing (under) surface. The marks at the rear are filler used to smooth the joint where I replaced the wood when making the stepped rear as described in the previous post.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4363/36396681223_f368ffbcfe_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XsfvhB)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4335/36396677223_a203df7145_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xsfu6D)
I have also finished scraping the underside of the hull - you will see that there are two small longitudinal steps towards the rear. These were taken down with the flat file by gently putting pressure on the file as I drew it forwards and backwards, following a pencil line that I had marked previously. All of the hull has been polished with fine grade glass paper.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4351/36396672783_b0d57f6862_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XsfsM6)
The hull is now semi-complete: I have still to drill out the cockpit opening and add details and then drill approximately 40 holes for various attachments: more on that later. And now for some retro-modelling: I have to fill and seal the wood grain and to do that I will use a very old, and for me well tried, method - a mixture of talcum powder and shrinking dope - a la Airfix Magazine sometime in the early to mid 1960's!
Memories, memories.....
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Curvy!
Richard
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Very well done Stephen, you managed to replicate all the complex curves perfectly, using wood was a great idea.
Des.
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Nice hull! Very impressive woodworking!
Cheers,
Bud
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Have to agree with all of the above, outstanding woodwork.
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Really good work on a interesting project!
Cheers,
Frank
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Wow, Very impressive carving! I still think you should make mouldings from it, even if it's just to save someone else all the effort!
Ian
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Like all of the others I am impressed by your woodworking / carving skills!
RAGIII
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Evening All,
Many thanks Richard, Des, Bud, Juan, Frank, Ian and Rick for leaving positive comments. I greatly appreciate them all.
I have decided that as showing a photo of the hull coated with talcum powder and dope filler would not cause much excitement I will move on to the wings. These are to be made from halves of 3 x 60 thou card sheet which has been laminated. These need to be scraped and shaped so:
Scraping and Shaping 4: Wings. I used the flat file again to remove the bulk of the unwanted plastic - rather more on the trailing edge than the leading edge. I have managed to get a fairly sharp trailing edge as per the original aircraft.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4334/36475041214_c312c55b6c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xzb7YW)
I added a strip of 30 thou card to the undersides of the leading edges and shaped this and the underside of the wing to give an aerofioil section to the wings. The wing halves were then polished with glass paper and the joints between the laminates filled with Mr Surfacer. This in turn was rubbed down and polished:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4372/36475038364_8b102a420d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xzb78N)
To join the halves I drilled three holes in each half so that I could insert steel pins to reinforce the butt joint. The pins were cut from a paper clip: the wire is rigid enough to make sure that the joint is very strong and will not move when I need to fill it and sand it smooth later.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4354/36475044524_812c739587_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Xzb8Y1)
I used CA to hold the pins in place and ordinary cement on the plastic surfaces, having first checked that the halves would line up properly when joined! After it had dried out overnight I liberally coated the joint with Mr Surfacer and vigorously sanded it smooth. I cut out the aeileron gaps and sanded these at the same time so that now the wing structure is complete and awaits the addition of the ribs.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4406/36475200724_956927fa6f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XzbWp7)
I will add these when the stub wings and elevator surfaces have been made and are ready too.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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I have decided that as showing a photo of the hull coated with talcum powder and dope filler would not cause much excitement
Yes it would! I couldn't decide how to do this for the floats on my Nieuport X so I clad them in styrene sheet. If they had been curvier I would have been stuck
Come on, show and tell
Richard
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I have decided that as showing a photo of the hull coated with talcum powder and dope filler would not cause much excitement
Yes it would! I couldn't decide how to do this for the floats on my Nieuport X so I clad them in styrene sheet. If they had been curvier I would have been stuck
Come on, show and tell
Richard
Yes please Stephen.
As Richard has requested.
Your build is amazing and every step is of great interest!
Eagerly awaiting your next progress report. :)
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I have decided that as showing a photo of the hull coated with talcum powder and dope filler would not cause much excitement
Yes it would! I couldn't decide how to do this for the floats on my Nieuport X so I clad them in styrene sheet. If they had been curvier I would have been stuck
Come on, show and tell
Richard
Yes please Stephen.
As Richard has requested.
Your build is amazing and every step is of great interest!
Eagerly awaiting your next progress report. :)
Evening All,
This is the method that I and other modellers of a certain generation use/have used to fill wood grain. I discovered it in the pages of Airfix Magazine where it was used by the late Alan Hall: I am not sure whether he invented the idea or he picked it up from somebody else, but it was originally suggested for balsa wood. However it works well on basswood too and I have used it on other woods when I have made parts from them. The advantage that it has with balsa is that it provides a hard shiny surface which can be easily painted and takes some knocks without denting easily as balsa can do. It does not crack either, so the paint retains its cover as on plastic surfaces. I am aware that there are other methods to fill wood grain, but this is the one which I prefer.
The method is simple but of the bucket chemistry approach. The ingredients are talcum powder which can be found in any pharmacy or large supermarket, and clear cellulose dope used to stretch tissue paper on flying models:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4361/37188009251_0c57479a50_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YEbgxi)
I put a quantity of dope, (the amount depends on the surface area to be coated), into my mixing container and the puff some talcum powder into it and mix with an old medium sized paintbrush. If the wood is balsa and has a fairly open grain I mix enough talcum powder to make a thick paste - rather like thick glue. This is plastered over the wood and if the wood is joined to plastic overlap the plastic slightly too. The surface will be lumpy: so when it is dry sand it down with medium and then fine glass paper until it is almost smooth.
Now mix a second coat of powder and dope but this time make the mixture thin - like a runny glue. Paint this on to the wood making sure that all of the remaining gaps and hollows are filled. When dry repeat the sanding operation until the surface is smooth.
In the case of the hull for this model I only used the thin powder and dope mixture followed by the dope because the grain is so tight that two coats were sufficient to seal the grain.
Finally coat the surface a third time with clear dope only, and when this is dry polish with some of the fine glass paper used previously. This should give you a hard shiny surface which will be indistinguishable from plastic. To clean the brush after each coat I use propriatory cellulose thinners but remember that these are inflammable and should be used in a well ventilated room. They used to reek of pear drops in the past but modern thinners no longer smell so much.
Just to illustrate what the finished and painted product looks like, (the hull of the current model does not look any different through a camera lens after it had been coated), here is an image of the engine of a Manchester which is made from three pieces of balsa, (main nacelle, upper and lower air intakes) which I converted from the Airfix Lancaster in the mid-1970's in an earlier incarnation as a modeller. The wing outboard of the engine is also made from balsa wood and all have powder/dope grain filler:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4364/36518694443_f1239c5a39_c.jpg)
I hope that this satisfies your curiosity. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask and I will try to help.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
(https://flic.kr/p/XD2RyP)
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G'day Stephen :)
Thank you for your very informative explanation.
Nice Manchester mods.
i would not have guessed the items are not plastic!
Standing by for your next post on this very interesting project.
cheers :)
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Evening All,
Thanks Boggie for the kind remarks and compliments.
I have been working on the ailerons. I had cut out the sections from the wings where the ailerons will go, but I need to make new ones as the later versions had balance ears and the outboard trailing edge curved upwards in a similar way to those on the Ago C II. That meant that I had to cut new pieces from 60 thou card with a laminate of 60 thou card:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4508/37236329876_649ee0ac46_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YJrVzw)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4339/37236336376_5f86f52662_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YJrXvA)
These look rough at the moment but that is normal for my scratch builds. Once again I decided to use my new tool to make life quicker and easier as there was a lot of plastic to remove:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4399/36898085282_b5f0302505_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ydykfb)
By judicious use of the file I was able to remove the underside and introduce the curve on the outer part of the trailing edge. I also thinned the trailing edge and rounded the ear and leading edge. The junction of the two pieces of plastic also needed treatment with Mr Surfacer and the whole units were given a polish with fine worn glass paper. Now they are ready for the ribs to be added which is what the pencil lines are for.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4490/36613904733_3187d5c68a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XMrQgx)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4367/37253909662_44a6dc07cf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YL12rh)
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Evening All,
I have been working on the part of scratch building WW1 aeroplanes that I enjoy the least - the wing and other flying surface ribs. They are not difficult to put on but shaping and scraping them can get a bit tedious, especially if there are lots of surfaces or if they cover a large area. In this case both apply!
The method is simple enough: transfer from the plans the positions of the ribs on to the flying surface with a pencil line. I use Evergreen strip and select a suitable size for respective surfaces. In this case I used 10 x 30 thou for the wing and 10 x 20 thou for the stub wings, and tail surfaces. If the wing ribs sound large just remember the size of the original aircraft - there were lightweight girders in there! The main ribs were added first by applying liquid cement to the wing surface and laying the strip on to it. Liquid cement was then run along the strip to ensure that it was properly held down - these are long strips and the cement dries quickly:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4358/37450372516_b5f9daf1e7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Z4mWZS)
I added the small leading edge ribs in the same way:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4339/37450370886_706bc5661a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Z4mWvL)
In the case of these short ribs I had drawn a line span wise along the wing to make sure that they are all of the correct length, in addition to the chord wise lines for each rib. After what seemed like a long half of an evening I had this:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4421/23645876388_e21237c529_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/C2vieW)
On to the other flying surfaces and the same procedure was followed. Everything was left to dry overnight. Then I could do what I like doing best with this task which is to trim off the leading and trailing edge pieces of strip. Before I sanded the ribs I added some filler to the edges to help smooth them into the general flying surface. After sanding they are ready for priming:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4489/37467239252_5c88bbcabe_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Z5RoTE)
Any irregularities which show after priming will be filled with Mr Surfacer and sanded and primed again. These are the ailerons, elevators and horizontal stabilizer for the tail. From the top the ailerons and upper elevator are complete and primed, the lower elevator has still to be filled and sanded and the horizontal stabilizer awaits trimming:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4482/37467244932_4d5ff0c579_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Z5RqzA)
Still a lot to do on these surfaces before they are ready, so I will plod on....
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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The flying surfaces are looking great! Brilliant method for achieving the was out on the ailerons!
RAGIII
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Fantastic work! I lern a lot from your build, its like a master class.
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Wow Stephen, your efforts are well worth it. Looking really good, you must have the patience of a Saint. :D
-
Thank you Stephen for your dope and talc technique. You are doing a superb job on the wings, very time consuming but rewarding.
Des.
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wow. superb work on those complex curves of the fuselage (hull? what the heck do you call it on a flying boat).
i love seeing all the techniques in these scratch building threads. funny i'd filled wood pores in 1:1 scale projects, never occurred to me to use wood as the basis for something small...
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Evening All,
Many thanks to Rick, Pustota, Juan, Des and Jeff for your very kind and encouraging words which I really appreciate. Juan I can assure you that I do not have the patience of a saint: you obviously do not live near to me or you would hear the language which I use at the times when my frustration levels reach breaking point.....
.....I have to write that I am currently very fed up with repeated sanding, filling and priming of ribs.... only to find still more holes!!! I gave up for a while this week and took a break to make something else, but still took a little time on them which I am pleased to report are now nearly ready....sigh.
I forgot to explain how I made the stub wings which are on the lower rear of the hull. They are made from 30 thou card and bent in a pipe of near-boiling water as described by Stevehed. The method is very good for making curved card for wings and other flying surfaces. (I just wish that I could have used the technique for the wings of this model but they were too thick). They were then filed and sanded to aerofoil section in the usual way:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4505/37642047991_bc9de2576d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Zmikrr)
The stub wings have been given the rib treatment too and are now primed and ready to have the ends drilled to take metal pins: these will be used to attach the stub wings to the hull later.
For a change I went back to the hull to drill out the cockpit area. I am not proposing to add internal detail for two good reasons. The first is that I have absolutely no idea of what the internal structure looked like other than the fact that it was built from girders like the wings, and secondly the hull is solid wood and trying to hollow out a section and fill it with detail which would never be seen anyway seems to be going too far, so I have settled for a minimal approach, rather like Airfix and Revell kits of the early 1960's where all you had was a pilot and seat if you were lucky. In my case there will be two seats as the pilots sat side by side. I will put control wheels in too and a generic instrument panel which I think was behind the windshield. Well that is where mine is going!
I drilled out the cavity for the cockpit and then lined it with 10 thou card so that it could be painted. I also tidied up around the hole with filler to smooth out the surface:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4513/37383004630_70ef6eb822_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YXpESA)
The next item was the windshield which sits in front of the pilots. I carved a male mould from balsa and push moulded one from 30 thou card.....and did not think that it looked right. I had been following the drawing but the result looked different from the photos, so I tried again...and again and finally got a shape which I think is close to what the original may have looked like:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4513/36970358003_1f93b98cf2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YjWKpz)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4465/36970361183_d25d08064e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YjWLmp)
It is not glued into place yet because I still have to make the instrument panel and fit that first. While I was moulding the windshield I decided that I would also make a mould for the propellor spinners. This was a piece of 1/4 inch (6mm) dowel with the end shaped to the correct curve. I made 6 spinners to make sure that if I make a mess of one or two (highly likely) I will have enough to complete the job without having to go through the moulding process again. Just to test things I also carved a propellor from some strip wood which I use for the purpose, (please do not ask what the wood is because I have no idea - it was given to me by my late father and he did not know what it is either). The result:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4493/37642041301_40e63742da_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Zmiis6)
Only three more to make.
One thing that struck me when I was sanding the elevator surfaces was the size of them. On the aircraft they form a biplane structure which was at the extreme rear of the aircraft, and they hinged as a single unit. Just to give an idea of their size I got out my model of the Avro biplane of 1912 which is to the same scale: the span of the elevators is the same as the span of the wings of the biplane! (5 1/2 inches: 14 cm).
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4470/37642067821_931e5cc908_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Zmirkk)
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4513/36970358003_1f93b98cf2_c.jpg)
If this build doesn't work out, you've got a speedboat!
Richard
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You are moving right along now! Amazing size comparison!
RAGIII
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(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4513/36970358003_1f93b98cf2_c.jpg)
If this build doesn't work out, you've got a speedboat!
Richard
Well it is supposed to be a flying boat! I just hope that I can get the wing to fit properly when the time comes....shades of Lance and Rick with the Fokker E VIII here. I know that I may have to build a proper jig for once.
Stephen.
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Thanks Rick for the encouragement. Yes this is rather bigger than my usual models, but when I saw the photus of this machine I just could not resist the temptation to have a go!
Stephen.
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It really gives an idea of the size when you say the cockpit has 2 side by side seats! This is going to be enormous!
Ian
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Very interesting subject and cool . Super work so far Stephen :)
Terri
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Geez, Stephen! How on earth did I miss this one! One of my favorites and I have always contemplated making one from scratch. Incredible so far! Well...pretty dang unbelievable if you want the truth. :o :o :o :o
Will be watching intently.
Dan
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Evening All,
Thanks Ian, Terri and Dan for dropping by. Yes Ian this is by far the largest scratch build that I have attempted, and it truly was a very large machine. Remember too that crew members were in the hull - originally to service the engines in flight!
Good to have you on board Dan - glad you like it too. I am sure that you could scratch build one of these too - I would like to see you do it if only to compare construction techniques and results!
I have not reported anything recently as I have been away to visit my brother, but we have been busy together as he has helped me with some of the work where two sets of hands were necessary and with a process which I have not mastered - soldering.
Before I left to see him though I added two small pieces of 60 thou card to the middle of the hull sides. These represent where the rear cabane struts were fixed to the top of the hull: the hull tapers slightly in plan but the cabanes were parallel with the thrust line and set close to the hull edge at the front.. Consequently the rearmost attachment point was slightly outboard of the edge of the hull and some form of bracket was fixed and then concealed behind a cover. It is not entirely clear from the photos what this looked like so I have shaped the card to what I think is a fair representation:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4494/23963965638_f8ab865755_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CvBA6m)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4493/23963969258_ec9b991647_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CvBBaL)
All of those crosses on the top of the hull mark where I will have to drill locating holes for the cabane and engine support struts. The one in the centre is where the boom will be inserted into the top of the hull. First though the boom had to be made. For reasons of strength I decided to make this from brass rod, using 1/16 inch (1.6mm) for the arm which will be fixed into the hull and the 4 long arms, and 3/64 inch (1.19mm) for the cross pieces. I had intended to superglue these together but after a discussion with my brother he suggested that this would not be strong enough particularly given that the top side booms are attached to a single boom which enters the top of the hull via a triangular piece. This strange design came about as a consequence of the redesign of the engine installation: originally this machine was powered by three engines in the hull connected to the propellors via drive shafts. This arrangement was not very satisfactory for a number of reasons, among them being that one of the drive shafts broke causing the aircraft to make a forced landing. Then when the pilot tried to take off the central unit broke away and severely damaged the tail booms in the process. This caused a major redesign of the aircraft. The hull was reshaped, 4 engines were fitted instead of three, and these were placed in tandem in nacelles between the hull and the wing. This in turn meant that the upper boom attachment had to be reduced to a single central arm to clear the rear propellors.
My brother is very skilled with a soldering iron so he offered to make the upper part of the boom with the triangular joining piece and central arm for me. The triangular section was cut from a piece of brass sheet and after the boom parts had been cut form rod and the ends filed and cleaned, they were mounted on a jig of balsa wood to check size and alignment prior to soldering:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4457/37106889784_6559d48afc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Yx1vxN)
Both ends of the boom are too long. This was done deliberately so that they can be cut to the correct lengths later: in particular the forward end needs to be buried as deeply into the hull as possible to give maximum strength. The boom was soldered and the new piece had the very small amounts of excess solder removed with a file.
Then we set about drilling the holes for the booms in the hull. The hull was wrapped in cloth to protect it as it was held in a vice and G clamp to make sure that there was no movement when we started to drill the holes. The first one to be drilled was the most difficult: this was the central hole in the middle of the hull. This has to penetrate at a low angle which meant that a small vertical pilot hole was drilled to a depth of approximately 1/4 inch (0.5cm), and then a paper template which had been made from the plan was crudely taped to the hull just to one side of the it:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4468/23963973538_4a285d3006_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CvBCry)
We checked the alignment by pushing the single arm of the boom into place:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4483/37146700483_151dafb3a8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YAwxTa)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4491/37785070512_78ea2b311b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZyWn3Y)
No extra drilling needed there! This now formed a convenient alignment jig for the two holes which had to be drilled in the lower rear of the hull where the lower boom arms will be fixed:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4458/37785080592_4eee08e1fa_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZyWq3L)
When both holes had been drilled we were able to use the boom to make sure the gap and angle was right:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4474/37817042221_e03642b619_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZBLe8k)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4457/37785085142_67d96f18f8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZyWrpd)
Now I have to cut the remaining the parts of the boom assembly from brass rod and fit it to the hull with epoxy and superglue. However I will drill all of the remaining holes in the hull and wing first, as the hull will be easier to handle without a large lump of brass sticking out of the rear!
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Very clever!
When does it start looking like an aeroplane?
Richard
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Extremely well done work on the boom assembly and mounting! Really coming along now!
RAGIII
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Very nicely done boom assembly, the soldering is extremely neat.
Des.
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Again, that is a fantastic project! What I always say: scratching with brass and soldering is pure fun, and you and your brother made a good job!
I don't know this aircraft and I'm curious how it will look like.
Cheers,
Frank
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Evening All, Thanks Richard, Rick, Des and Frank for the very kind remarks - they are much appreciated.
Richard: I am hoping that the model will begin to look like an aeroplane in this post, but it will be some time before the wing is fitted because it is a parasol held by cabanes and large V srtuts to the hull sides. The engines were mounted between the hull and the wing.
The first step was to attach the top boom arms to the hull. I laid the boom on to a set of plans and cut off the excess rod at both ends, leaving enough at the front end to be pushed about 2.5 cm into the hull. This will ensure that it does not move or fall out later.. The boom was supported by three upright posts at the very rear of the hull - these were made from brass rod and expoxied into holes drilled into the hull. These holes were drilled at the same time as others which will be used later for among other things, engine support struts, stub wings, and cabane struts. In all 41 holes of different sizes, and all had to be in the correct places - not 3mm or 5mm too much to one side or the other. I too can get cross-eyed when measuring so I made a tracing from the plans to show where all the holes on the top of the hull needed to go and transferred this to the model. I could then check each location and correct if necessary without finding later that I had mis-drilled one or two! The holes in the sides of the hull for the stub wings were easier as I will explain later.
Back to the boom: with the vertical posts in place I epoxied the front post and pushed this into the hole in the centre of the hull until the triangular section at the front of the boom sat directly over the posts. A quick dab of CA on the tops of the posts and put the boom on to the posts: the CA made sure that the boom did not move while the epoxy cured overnight. In the morning I added the centre strip in the triangle at the front end of the boom - this was from 15 tou plastic card held also held in place with CA.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4479/38065985432_a0750bdbbb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZZL8gE)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4481/38065989402_ac51ae3c76_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZZL9s7)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4488/38065993432_8c82579fdf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZZLaDA)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4482/26320475859_e11a6e376e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G6RjtV)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4484/26320480149_b6a9090abb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G6RkKT)
The last photo shows the holes where the lower boom arms will be inserted into the hull However before that stage I cut the fins from 30 thou card and rouned the leading and trailing edges: these were fabric wrapped around the boom struts so did not need to be either aerofiol section of very thin. These two pieces of card were CA'd to the underside of the upper boom arms:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4498/26320484379_fca4f1cb40_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G6Rn1P)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4463/26320488319_81c4538b18_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G6RobK)
Now the lower boom arms could be epoxied into the rear of the hull and CA'd to the card fins. This method of using epoxy and CA means that the arms are securely fixed to the wood and plastic: I have some wriggle time to get the boom in the correct place with the epoxy, and when it is where I want it the CA holds it in place while the epoxy cures.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4444/26320492339_56107f4770_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G6Rpo4)
When the above was set and rigid I could add the remainder of the boom struts - vertical and horizontal. I started with the horizontal strut at the rear: I measured the gap with a pair of dividers, cut the rod and filed the ends with a round file to fit into the circular boom arm and CA'd it into place:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4504/26320498809_43f5501556_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/G6RriB)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4494/37388160394_d4aa2394df_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YXS6v5)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4444/37388166284_b2d9c644dc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/YXS8fC)
Having checked that all was square and true I was able to cut the remaining pieces of brass rod as per the above and glue into place. I finished by cutting the vertical centre posts from 20 thou plastic rod and CA'd them into place too:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4474/24244661398_abd8d459bc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CWqeaq)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4469/24244666608_7ef6d8f59a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CWqfHf)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4471/24244670208_fdb125c2e9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CWqgMj)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4502/24244676378_a224eef237_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CWqiBG)
At last I have a structure which is beginning to look like a flying boat! There are alternative ways to do this but experience has taught me that making the parts as I go along is better in the end because I can measure everything to fit together exactly rather than finding that something is not quite square, the wrong length, too short, etc when the completed sub-assembly is tested against the other part of the model. I also used CA for the brass attachments because it was easier and safer than solder and a hot iron: imagine trying to hold the rod with one hand and solder and iron in another......and then get it all square and true!!!
The front arm of the boom was braced on each side by small struts which I represented with 15 thou rod. Of course holes had been drilled in the top of the hull to receive these.... Finally I added the stub wings at the rear of the hull. I had drilled two holes in the edges of each wing and inserted a piece of stiff wire which was held in place with CA. The wire ends were held against the hull to mark where the holes should be drilled. (This was actually done before I fixed the boom into place - I am describing it here to make it easier to follow). Add a drop of CA to the ends of the wires and insert into the holes in the hull. A little filler as necessary was run along the joint and the whole rubbed down and primed.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4508/24244681718_21ca712d35_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CWqkcL)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4462/38044232126_e0c1870deb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZXQCLE)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4471/38044235856_903233170d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZXQDSY)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4505/24244698548_6f3c634a6e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CWqqcW)
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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It looks like the unfortunate offspring from the mating of a Bleriot IX and a speedboat
Loving this one Stephen
Richard
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I can't help laughing at Richard's comment, but at the same time, this is looking very good indeed. Lovely brasswork!
Ian
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It is lovely, and scratchbuilding is an excellent way of raising awareness of these more obscure aeroplanes. After all, WNW is very, very unlikely to produce a kit
No disrespect intended, Stephen, quite the opposite
Richard
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Coming along beautifully Stephen, the boom assembly looks very impressive and strong, looking forward to seeing the next updates.
Des.
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It is lovely, and scratchbuilding is an excellent way of raising awareness of these more obscure aeroplanes. After all, WNW is very, very unlikely to produce a kit
No disrespect intended, Stephen, quite the opposite
Richard
My compliments as well Stephen, great work all round and "hat's off" to your brother for his artistic soldering as well! Fascinating Build Log and a pleasure to follow along! 8)
Cheers,
Lance
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Continuing to be a great build to follow! Looking closer to an aircraft now! Absolutely Lovely work as always!!
RAGIII
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Thank you all for the very kind comments gentlemen.
Richard I can assure you that no offence has been taken by your very amusing comment! I am sure that if WNW did produce a kit of this aircraft there would be many modellers who would wonder what on earth it was! I have to admit that I only found out about this by chance but it gripped my imagination and I just knew that I had to accept the challenge of trying to build one - for the reasons you have given!
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I am reassured, I'll start preparing better insults
Richard
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Truly spectacular results thus far, Stephen! This may be your best work yet.
Cheers,
Bud
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Wow Stephen, she is coming along quite nicely. Beautiful work.
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And, Stephen, it is indeed beautiful work plus I really need to echo what's been said above about your brother's contribution...that soldering work is truly amazing...so incredibly clean and tight and very much to scale!
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Thanks Bud, Juan and Doug for the compliments which I greatly appreciate.
Doug: with reference to the soldering which my brother did for me, it is worth remembering that he suffers from Parkinson's disease (shaking palsy), and has done do for 10 years. It just shows what can be done with enough determination!
Stephen.
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Thanks Bud, Juan and Doug for the compliments which I greatly appreciate.
Doug: with reference to the soldering which my brother did for me, it is worth remembering that he suffers from Parkinson's disease (shaking palsy), and has done do for 10 years. It just shows what can be done with enough determination!
Stephen.
Stephen,
That's amazing, your brother has done marvelous work, especially given his condition. Makes my whining about arthritic fingers just that....whining! Great inspiration.
Cheers,
Lance
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Evening All,
Lance: what my brother does with his condition is in my opinion little short of miraculous. He is designing and building some prototype equipment which potentially could be helpful in diagnosing different forms of his illness. This involves the soldering of some very tiny components and the making of a case to put all the part in. What he does is truly precision work, yet somehow he manages it! In addition he is making a model ship (a brig) in 1/76 scale entirely from wood, thread and other materials, using plans. He makes my efforts look amateur by comparison. I will ask him for permission to post a picture or two on this site - they will blow your mind! I suppose it is a case of mind over matter and thinking that we can do something if we a determined enough, but he has always had very high levels of manual skill and hand-eye co-ordination and that certainly helps.
I have finished the tail surfaces by assembling the biplane elevator and making the upper halves of the fins and rudders and attaching them to the horizontal stabilizer. I used 30 thou card for the fins and rudders and cut two slots in them so that I could insert the horizontal surface. Filler had to be used to clean up the joint because unless the gap was slightly oversize the horizontal surface ribs would not pass through. Incidentally a strange feature of this part is that the ribs are on the underside and not the top as on the wings: I do not know why this was so but it is clear from photos and the drawings that this was the case.
The elevator was a biplane structure which was easily assembled using 20 thou rod for the struts. Simple holes were drilled in both surfaces, the rod cut to length and all held together with liquid cement. I still have to add the arms which joined this structure to the rear of the upper boom arms.
Just to illustrate again how big this aircraft was (and how big a model it will be when finished) I have put the elevator, upper fins and rudders and the ailerons around an Avro Type D biplane which is in the same scale. This aircraft was built and flew only 5 years after the Avro.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4479/38220812441_cfffbd66e4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21erDWR)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4506/26444470809_87e02c780f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GhNPRT)
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Wow, Stephen...that's about covers it. Well done!
Dan
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(Yeah, Stephen, please do ask him...I'd love to see some pix of his brig...doubtful I'm alone.....just drop 'em in Modelers Lounge or summink)
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Amazing work, love the comparison of the two.
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Wow Stephen, the Rs II is going to be an absolute monster even in 1:72 scale, looking forward to seeing further progress on this incredible model.
Des.
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Amazing build Stephen.
And brilliant craftsmanship!
Your Avro looks brilliant too. Would like to see more pix of that little beauty.
I would also like to view your brother's models.
Looking forward to your next post. :)
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Evening All,
May thanks to all of you who have dropped by and left such positive comments, they are really appreciated.
Boggie: there are photos of the Avro biplane in the gallery and there is a build log in the scratch build section of this site. I am sure you can find them easily enough if you scroll down on the scratch build section, and search in the gallery.
Doug and Boggie: I have posted some pictures of my brother's model ship as it is of today, (unfinished of course - he is in the process of building it), in the time to relax section.
Stephen.
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Thanks Stephen.
Found it.
cheers :)
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Evening All,
I have still to shape the engine nacelles and put in something resembling engines.....
I have fixed the windshield to the hull - that was a part that I moulded and showed earlier. It was metal on the original aircraft and I think had the instrument panel mounted behind it - at least that is how I have interpreted it. The IP was a simple piece of card painted in oils to represent wood, (although on the original it may have been duraluminium?), and then some black dots to represent instruments. As this part will barely visible on the completed model that is good enough. The joint between the windshield and hull was filled and sanded and then the whole given a coat of primer, together with the wing and tail surfaces. The brass boom was given a coat of metal primer: I am not sure how acrylics would go on to uncoated brass and I was not prepared to take the risk.
Painting and decorating followed. The first was the CDL for which I have used Revell Beige 314. Artwork is not my strong suit and I find it very difficult to mix paint and get consistent shades so I used this straight from the pot. I watered it down and applied numerous coats - I think about 12 in all - I lost count actually. The first two coats looked positively awful but after that things improved a little. For the wings and large surfaces I drew the brush across the surface for one coat and then along for the next, alternating the direction for each coat. The final coat was always from the front to the rear of the part being painted.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4577/38452102136_68d0e0af8f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21zT5jd)
Then on to the metallic areas which I have represented with Revell Hellgrau 76 again straight form the pot but again watered down and multi-coated as described above. The finish does look a bit uniform but the photographs do not show any variation and any panel lines would be too small to see in this scale anyway.
Next came the decoration: I had printed the crosses on my computer so I first cut out the white background squares from white transfer sheet and applied these:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4522/38475804522_c2e9214d0f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21BYyd3)
This is the top of the wing and shows what I mean - nothing special. After that was dry the crosses were applied, in this case under the wing:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4561/38475799602_760982b363_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21BYwKd)
The ribs on the underside were cut from 10 x 20 thou Evergreen strip and represent reinforcing strips between the strut location points. I have since painted these grey too as these were metallic and not covered by fabric. The holes where the struts will be eventually fitted can also be seen here. The fin crosses were also applied so that the complete hull assembly now looks like this:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4580/38475807002_dc18b80f91_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21BYyWN)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4520/38475809032_78d615c193_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21BYzxN)
After all the excitement of waiting for paint to dry I can now get on with rigging the underside and inside of the boom because I am concerned about access accidentally knocking off parts because I have to invert the model in order to rig these areas. I also need to get on with those engine nacelles.....
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Looking really, really good
Not necessarily aeroplane shaped yet, still good
Richard
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Very nice! A little colour always starts to bring things to life. I need to try metal primer, I'm tired of having the paint come off while trying to fit brass rod.
Ian
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Ian, If you do use primer be careful because it can be very thick, but if you add too much thinner it does not work either! On the booms the thicker paint matters less than it would have done on very thin metal.
Stephen.
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A great scratchbuilding tutorial. Thank you for sharing.
Giuseppe.
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Absolutely beautiful work! The crosses came out beautifully!
RAGIII
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Wow, the seaplane looks just great! Now with paint on it it looks mindblowing, so retro and so futuristic at the same time.
Manni
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What a beast she is - but a pretty one. Very nice scratchbuild!
Borsos
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She is taking shape beautifully Stephen, you are doing a superb job.
Des.
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What a wonderful piece of modelling Stephen, or should I say art!! :)
Very inspiring!!
Andrew
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Evening All,
My thanks to Guiseppe, Rick, Manni, Andreas, Des and Andrew for your very kind and positive comments - I really appreciate them all and am pleased that this build is of such interest to so many.
I have rigged the lower part of the tail boom together with the vertical sections as shown in the photos. Experience has taught me that rigging parts of a model like this is strongly advised as they become much less accessible later when there are large parts such as wings etc to catch on when one is trying to get the tweezers and wire into tiny spaces. I use rolled 40 SWG copper wire: I measure the length needed directly from the model using a pair of dividers. l then cut a piece of wire which is slightly longer than needed and roll it flat with a piece of brass strip on a hardwood base. The wire is offered to the space where it is supposed to fit and by the use of Mk 1 eyeball I estimate how much needs to be trimmed. A second, and if necessary third, attempt is made until the wire is the correct length. A tiny blob of CA is added to the model at both ends where the wire is to be attached and the wire carefully placed in position. The CA usually grabs the wire and holds it firm. Sometimes I will put one end on and then use tweezers or a knife blade to gently ease the other end of the wire into place if it is difficult to get to. By using wire I do not have to drill and fill lots of holes, and in the case of this boom structure which is made from brass, I do not have to drill into metal which would be extremely difficult and time consuming. The results look like this:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4571/37714254215_cd47978cd9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZsFpQk)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4579/38545393996_a852a8ea43_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21J8dJy)
Whilst I was in rigging mode I decided to complete the elevator so that I could store it where it cannot be damaged. This will be one of the very last parts to be added to the model so I need to keep it safe in the meantime.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4515/37885196894_f03c591015_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZHMx8U)
Just a reminder of size and how much rigging there is on this aeroplane, here again is the Avro biplane with the rigged and painted elevator: remember this will be at the very rear of the flying boat and is a relatively small part of it!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4586/38545407986_cdfd61f21e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21J8hTL)
I have been thinking hard about how I am going to attach the large V struts under the wings to the hull sides. On the original aircraft they came to a common joint and were attached to the hull side and probably to a large piece of frame inside the hull. I do not think that it will be practical to make the ends of 4 pieces of plastic come together and simultaneously be able to fix them to the hull sides, so I have decided to make two small attachment pieces from 60 thou card, drill holes in them and the hull and attach them with wire and CA. However I needed to make the attachment pieces the correct size: the struts will be made from 120 thou x 30 thou Evergreen strip shaped to aerofiol section, (the original struts were huge as the photos show). So I cut two small pieces of strip and made a tapered joint so that they would come together with a combined width of 60 thou. I could then cut the attachment pieces to fit exactly the strut ends:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4581/24730133158_2c8cdccf46_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DFjp1b)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4570/24730139918_8063db17c2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DFjr1J)
The hull attachment parts have an angled face which will be glued to the hull side and be reinforced with a piece of wire which I took from a piece of telephone cable. The opposite side will then be angled upwards so that the ends of the struts will fit directly on to it and will form a butt joint. The wing is completely rigid so the V struts should not be carrying any weight. The completed attachment lugs look like this:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4566/24730147698_a5dc4b7e20_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DFjtjS)
These have been CA'd to the hull.
I have also done some work on the engine nacelles: by the use of a file and glass paper I have shaped them to match the drawings and then I drilled out two slots, one at each end on the top, into which I am going to insert some short pieces of 60 thou rod to represent the cylinder ends. I have called this a retro model for good reasons: I am not intending to add a huge amount of cockpit and engine detail only to cover it all up - this model will resemble some of the early Frog and Airfix models from the 1950's where there were no wheel wells, cockpit openings, or other recesses! I have also resorted to talcum powder and dope as a filler - another 1960's, pre-resin aftermarket solution to a modelling problem! The engine tops will have some detail which will hopefully disguise to all but the most serious onlooker the small liberties that I am taking with this model. The rear engines will be nearly hidden under the wing anyway and all will have radiators mounted above them which will also help to obscure the view!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4558/38545365626_30bf9a7d4b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21J85iq)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4583/38545368656_a75d9b3227_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21J86cE)
There is some tidying up to do around the edges of the slots but that will be easy to do and when paint is on they should pass muster. Various holes have been drilled in the sides and front and rear which represent various orifices on the originals, but I have no idea why they were there, they are just clearly visible in the photos
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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and am pleased that this build is of such interest to so many.
Are you kidding?! A large and unusual prototype, interesting techniques, well executed and brilliantly and honestly described
Doesn't get much better than this, Stephen
Richard
Still doesn't look much like an aeroplane yet...
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Beside all the fine work on rigging and plane I really like the engines - cool!
Cheers,
Frank
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amazing rigging!
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Stephen,
Your solution to attaching the struts to the hull is pure genius, great scratch building skills on your part....... again! The rear boom rigging is beautifully clean and the elevator assembly as well. This is shaping up to be your best work yet, it's a real pleasure to follow your progress! 8) 8) 8)
Cheers,
Lance
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Stephen,
Your solution to attaching the struts to the hull is pure genius, great scratch building skills on your part....... again! The rear boom rigging is beautifully clean and the elevator assembly as well. This is shaping up to be your best work yet, it's a real pleasure to follow your progress! 8) 8) 8)
Cheers,
Lance
I'll second that. Beautiful, clean, work throughout. The only possible problem I can see is where to put it when it's finished!
Ian
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Outstanding work on the rigging and strut location issue!
RAGIII
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Superb job with the rigging on the boom and tail, this is shaping up beautiflully.
Des.
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Evening All,
Thanks Frank, Dave, Lance. Ian, Rick and Des for Dropping by and leaving those really positive and encouraging comments. I do appreciate them all very much.
Ian: I had thought of the problem of what to do with this before I started: I have ordered and received a special display box with a clear perspex cover. I have made these myself in the post but this one needs to be larger and I want to make a different base to just the usual flat surface, so as I mentioned in the opening post of this build log, I intend to make a small scene based on Seemoos where this machine was built and launched. I have some plans in my head and have sketched them out to real size on a piece of paper but have done no more yet because as you are aware a deadline looms in early January. When the model aircraft is finished I will start on the base and will post a log on this and the other site in the diorama sections (although strictly speaking mine will not be a proper diorama, rather a scene based on a photo).
I have been thinking about the struts for some time now. The wing is heavy and I am concerned that plastic strip, even the size that I intend to use, 120 thou x 40 thou, will bend or flex under the weight. I have worked out the construction sequence from here on and it will be make the struts and dry fit, mount the engine nacelles on the hull, fix the cabane struts and put on the wing, add the V struts to the sides, add the tail unit and other details. This means that the cabane struts must be strong enough to hold the wing in place as I simply cannot put on those and the V struts at the same time. If the cabane struts are not strong enough the wing may collapse on to the engines and I will be a little discombombulated.....! The question that I have not been able to answer is will the cabanes be able to support the wing on their own? Do the V struts also need to be reinforced? I have held the wing in the centre and it shows no sign of sag at the ends - I would be surprised if it did because it is three sheets of 60 thou card laminated and I have found from experience that by laminating card that problem is solved. However there is still the weight problem.
So! I have made a decision. I will reinforce the cabane struts and hope for the best with the V struts. I am going to reinforce the cabanes using a method that Ian (Limeypilot) has demonstrated. I measured the lengths of 120 x 40 thou Evergreen strip from the plans and cut them slightly too long, then scraped and shaped them to aerofoil section. That did not take long and gives a better shape than the preformed aftermarket materials, plus I have the size that I want. I then cut the strip lengthwise into three equal widths. The centre piece was discarded and replaced with a length of 3/64 inch (1.19mm) brass rod. The strut was re-assembled with CA and the gaps filled with standard filler and allowed to dry out. After a couple of sessions of sanding and filling small gaps, the whole was coated with Mr Surfacer to get a nice even finish and the lot was repainted:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4548/37942759954_055a56d1b3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZNSyCs)
The top piece is the original strip which has been scraped and shaped and painted! (I know, I should not have bothered but....). The second shows the rod in place between the two parts of the strip which will form the front and rear of the strut. The lower piece is a completed strut. Can you see the joint? No? Good!
Before I start to fit the engine nacelles I must first drill the holes to take the ends of the brass rod in the hull. All three struts are angled, which means that the holes must be angled too because bending the ends of brass rod is NOT easy. So the angles of the struts were measured from the plans, a complex(!) jig was made and put into place on the hull so that I could align the drill correctly, and I held my breath 6 times as I drilled away....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4560/24787899748_63e99b7bce_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DLqsZS)
Those pieces of plastic stuck to the sides of the hull are to represent some form of structure which had to be added to the sides of the hull of the machine because the hull tapers gently to the rear. In order that the front strut is exactly in line with the two at the rear they had to put a bulge at the top of the hull in this area. It is not clear from either photos or plans how this looked exactly, so I have put two pieces on which I think are sufficiently accurate.
A dry fit of the struts was then made: they are too long I know but I intend to trim them when I put the wing on: that is why the forward pair cross over. It may look messy but when I fit the wing I can sort out any small problems: for now I just want to make sure that they are at the correct angles and line up front to rear.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4586/24787902608_8dba422a3a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DLqtRb)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4533/37772869685_5ee72e4622_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZxRQaT)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4540/37772874405_2ecdeabcfe_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZxRRzg)
The next update will be a little delayed as I have to go on my travels again.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Evening All,
I have been away for a few days and therefore am getting behind for the GB, so I have spent longer than normal today trying to catch up, which means that other urgent tasks will have to be addressed tomorrow! Damn. Anyway I have got the engine mounts for the port (left) engine made, and I have made them so that they fit properly. A little thought when I was traveling suggested the following sequence should work - and amazingly it did!
I started by fixing the horizontal tabs to the sides of the nacelles: I have no idea what they were for but they are very clearly present in the photographs and drawings. The exhaust covers were made from 60 thou rod which had been cut to length and then filed in half, one end rounded and the rear drilled to leave a hole before the piece was glued into place. Next I measured the lengths of the legs at the front and rear of the nacelle from the plans, and cut some 30 thou rod. One end of each piece of rod was cemented to the indents in the nacelle and the cement allowed to set slightly. When the cement was stiff I placed the ends of the legs into the holes in the hull and adjusted the angles of the legs so that the nacelle was correctly aligned horizontally, vertically and laterally. This was left to dry out overnight - no jig or support was needed as the cement was sufficiently set to hold the nacelle.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4527/24981127368_17c9fed64e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E4uNQy)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4584/37966649895_68c00eb3e8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ZQZ1gZ)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4571/38137834284_f5a0e4b3c4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2177nqY)
I could then add the horizontal bracing struts between the legs: this immediately gave strength to what was otherwise a weak structure. This was allowed to set for an hour just to be sure.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4542/38822895862_844c78fc4f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/229Dunu)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4533/23988738447_00997c546b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CxNybK)
With these legs secure I could add the additional legs which make the two towers on which the front and rear of the nacelle are mounted to the hull. The horizontal cross bracing went in next, followed by the slanted pieces, all held in place with liquid cement and all measured to fit using a pair of dividers.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4546/23988744897_6d52c284e4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CxNA6X)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4545/38822918842_4ebf9a3601_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/229DBcG)
When all of this was dry I could remove the nacelle and legs assembly so that I can now paint them as trying to paint these in place and not mark the hull would be beyond my ability. This means that I will now be able to put this back on to the hull and all of the legs will fit into the holes.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4554/24981301628_127235dd6b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E4vGD3)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4553/24981313898_03522a3194_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E4vLhA)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4523/24981306208_63fc9ec3a0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E4vJ11)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4568/24981310028_e80d997709_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/E4vK8S)
Next step will be to paint the legs.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Outstanding build, Stephen, it is very impressive to watch how you manage all these countless struts.
Best wishes
Andreas
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:o Blood amazing!
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My head is exploding, amazing work.
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Evening All,
Thanks Andreas, Thumbs Up and Juan for your kind remarks which I greatly appreciate. I do not think that you will be quite so impressed with my strut handling capabilities when you read on Andreas......
For the starboard (right) nacelle towers I was supposed to iterate the procedure described in the last post for the port (left) nacelle and all would be fine. Well that was the plan....... except that it didn't quite work that way. I assembled the starboard (right) nacelle support towers as previously described and put the right and left nacelle sub-assemblies on to the model just to see how it looked. It did not look at all right. Reason? I had somehow mis-measured the height of the horizontal struts on the right nacelle towers with a result that looked awful!
At this point I would like to remind fellow modellers that if you wish to know how to make a mistake when modelling, I am the first port of call! I could write a book on the subject! How I mis-measured I do not know, but the solution was to remove all the smaller struts, leaving just the legs in place, and start again. Fortunately the legs held and I was able to replace all of the offending parts relatively quickly....but I was a tad annoyed. Painting followed for both sides, (at which point I corrected the colour for the bits on the sides of the nacelles that I had previously painted the wrong shade of grey!), and then I glued the port (left) nacelle into place on the hull, followed by the centre legs. Rigging followed using 40 SWG rolled copper wire held in place with CA as per the tail boom. This was necessary for two reasons:
1. with the cabane struts and wing in place these nacelles would be nearly impossible to get to;
2. with one nacelle in place rigging the inner part of the second one was difficult enough.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4637/38957250271_ca5a2c25be_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22mw6fP)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4537/38921152902_3484c6f66d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22ik5Lo)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4685/38957251541_25a3b775be_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22mw6CH)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4639/38921151582_3b0786a0af_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22ik5nC)
The starboard nacelle followed, CA'd into place on the hull and rigged:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4728/38921187582_cb2d8754a3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22ikg5j)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4691/38921186582_4158583691_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22ikfM5)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4725/38921182192_3acfd2073a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22iketo)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4536/38921183242_1365ca1455_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22ikeMu)
Although I did not take a photo I did try out the cabane struts just to make sure that there is a gap between them and the nacelles and that the sticking out bits on the nacelles do not foul the struts: they do not. When scratch building these small things can go wrong, (as did the strut assembly described above), and in this case the consequences would have been pretty serious if they had because simply re-positioning the sticking out pieces would have made the whole thing look odd. There was very little room for error there.
At last this is beginning to look like the machine in the photographs. There is still a lot more to do before I can think about putting the wing on: rig the boom, add engine radiators and associated pipes and bracing, check the location slots in the wing, make the large V struts, etc. More later.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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This seems grossly inadequate:
WOW!
Richard
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Absolutely amazing work Stephen, the engine nacelles look fantastic as does the rest of the model, a true masterpiece in the making.
Des.
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Beautifully done Stephen! This is really starting to look very special!
Ian
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Amazing build, Steven! Looks really great.
Manni
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Stephen,
Your quote:
"At this point I would like to remind fellow modellers that if you wish to know how to make a mistake when modelling, I am the first port of call! I could write a book on the subject!"
Stand in line old friend! You are in no way unique in that regard! I've made doing things twice an art form in my modelling adventures and will no doubt continue the trend......
The important element here is the final result, and yours is spectacular. The photos of the intricate strut assemblies supporting those perfectly crafted nacelles are hard to recognize as scratch built components, this is great work thus more then one attempt seems perfectly normal to me. It's already a superb example of the modeller's art and it gets better with every update, stay the course!
Looking forward to the now so close Completed Models entry.
Cheers,
Lance
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Stephen,
Your quote:
"At this point I would like to remind fellow modellers that if you wish to know how to make a mistake when modelling, I am the first port of call! I could write a book on the subject!"
Stand in line old friend! You are in no way unique in that regard! I've made doing things twice an art form in my modelling adventures and will no doubt continue the trend......
The important element here is the final result, and yours is spectacular. The photos of the intricate strut assemblies supporting those perfectly crafted nacelles are hard to recognize as scratch built components, this is great work thus more then one attempt seems perfectly normal to me. It's already a superb example of the modeller's art and it gets better with every update, stay the course!
Looking forward to the now so close Completed Models entry.
Cheers,
Lance
After reading your post and the response from Lance I know I can't say it any better! One addition, I am the guy they made the saying about, Measure once cut twice ::)
RAGIII
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Evening All,
Thank you Richard, Des, Ian, Lance, Manni and Rick for you very kind and encouraging remarks. I am very re-assured by your comments Lance and Rick that you too have to perform some operations more than once. I sometimes wonder if I have any sense at all when I make silly mistakes such as those mentioned in the last post.... I am also at a stage in this build that is causing me considerable angst as I will describe shortly so to read your comments was very helpful.
FYO a modeller on another site has described this as "scaffolding with wings" which I thought was rather appropriate and another has called it my "Pokemon"!
On to the build as time is beginning to run short and I will be away for some of the holiday period and am aware that days can slip by with little being achieved. I have still to work out precisely how the wing is going to be fitted: I am trying to think of a jig which will not be more complicated than the model...............
I am also concerned about the strength of the cabane struts, which as shown earlier I have reinforced with brass rod, but still cannot make up my mind whether to reinforce some of the V struts. The problem with the latter would be how to fix them to the attachment points on the hull because if I do it would require drilling holes at awkward angles in a very small piece of plastic. The V struts are also long and inserting rod and keeping the strut even would not be simple. I have a feeling that I am going to just use thick wide strip and hope it works: if it does not.....dammit it will!!!
Before the wing can be fitted however I had to put on the radiators above the engines. They were scraped and shaped from plastic card with grilles scribed with a sharp knife. The filler caps were from two thicknesses of rod. The bracing, supports and radiator pipes were also rod.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4522/38336493864_2aa0986f1b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21pEy19)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4645/38336494834_216aa5eef0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21pEyhS)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4520/38336493384_9253fda14b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21pExRS)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4575/38336494354_57672b1e23_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21pEy9A)
I have tested the cabane struts again as part of the planning for placing the top wing: I keep having different ideas about how to do this and none of them seem to be practical. This is what the struts look like minus the wing:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4524/38336495144_1135a0ea81_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21pEyod)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4685/38336495594_ac4f3d64ac_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21pEyvY)
You can see in these photos that there is not a great deal of attachment between the tops of those struts and a large and heavy wing. Araldite will be the bonding of choice because it will give me wriggle time but will be strong. The question is still how to fix the struts and the wing in a single operation.... I need some form of jig but not one which is too complicated: I think that I may have one and hope to be able to report in the next few days. If I do not then you can reasonably assume that it did not work and I may be on the way to giving up this one for a time because there is a real risk of damaging the engine installations and radiators which are a bit precarious up there, and I may have to tackle another project and come back to this one later.
More in due course I hope.
Stephen.
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Wow! For my eyes the real plane arises, not a model!
Thank you for showing your progress on this beauty.
Cheers,
Frank
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Stephen, she is taking on a beautiful shape. This is going to be one truly beautiful and unique plane thanks to your talents.
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" The question is still how to fix the struts and the wing in a single operation.... I need some form of jig but not one which is too complicated"
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=8518.msg157112#msg157112
Stephen,
I studied your photos last night, "slept" on them, and looked over the problem again this morning and although I'm not positive I've grasped the situation entirely I have a possible, maybe only part solution to suggest. It seems to me that the basic "Vertigo Jig" we discussed here at great length earlier this year offers a format that would lend itself to this process. It's simple yet could be set up to provide the proper stagger and distance between the upper wing and fuselage and support them while the glue sets on those delicate strut joins. Perhaps you could even construct a quick simplified version tailored to this one project. Check it out in Petov's 17 May post on the link I've included, might be worth consideration or perhaps I'm not grasping the requirement accurately. Hope this might be of some help.
Cheers,
Lance
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Evening All,
Thank you Frank, Juan and Lance for your very positive remarks. Yes Juan, at last it is beginning to look like the original but it has taken a long time to get there.
Lance: many thanks for the helpful advice about jigs. I looked at the link but have decided not to go down that road because I consider those things to be too complex for me. I am a simple modeller and like wherever possible to keep things simple. In that way I make fewer mistakes! I have managed to solve some tricky problems on builds in the past, but I have also learned (and forgotten!) that the more I think and worry about a problem, the more difficult I imagine it will be....... Then when I actually bite the bullet, it is not nearly half as difficult as I imagine. This was so in this case.
Yes gentlemen I have managed to fix the top wing into place ........... at the third attempt! I will not distract you with too many details but just a few notes to anyone else who wants to attempt this sort of thing in future, here were my mistakes:
Attempt 1. I measured the struts and shortened the tops by a couple of mm: this was intentional as I have found from experience that trying to cut pieces such as these directly from plans is a recipe for failure as there are always tiny discrepancies on models (or at least there are on mine). Having cut the struts so that the front pair joined at the top I proceeded to apply the araldite, put the lower ends of the struts into the holes in the hull and put araldite into the holes on the underside of the wing. The wing was placed upside down on a sheet of expanded styrene so that I could clearly see the top ends of the struts, and I gently lowered the inverted hull assembly on to the wing, easing the struts into the holes. The rear of the booms were rested on a support on the styrene. This is the jig support:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4635/24279097867_1e0888a3ac_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/CZsHVD)
And here is the model inverted and supported on the support:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4643/25272657288_b764914264_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EvfYwu)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4679/25272658888_b977f0fded_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EvfZ15)
In the meantime I checked for alignment using a large set square that I used to use for drawing maps: this made sure that the wing leading edge was at 90 degrees to the thrust line of the hull. All was left overnight to set and in the morning I found that the wing was not level - ie it was about 1cm down on one side and the same amount up on the other! It took about 10 minutes to find out why: the N strut junction on the port (left side) was not sitting as it should. I had not shortened the angled strut enough and so it was holding up the wing at that point, and because the wing is so big, the distortion was magnified at the tips.
Attempt 2. By carefully cutting and prising the offending araldite joint with a new scalpel blade I was able to release the wing from the struts, and then using the same procedure I was able to extract the strut from the hole in the hull. This took about 15 minutes of nerve stretching activity but I managed it without damaging the other joints. The strut was shortened and re-inserted, again with some difficulty, and the model put back on to the jig and left to dry out. Next day I checked again and this time I found that the wing was misaligned so that the leading edge was not at 90 degrees to the thrust line - I had forgotten to put a support in to stop distortion while the new joint dried out!
Attempt 3. This time I dismantled the whole of the struts assembly - not intentionally but by degrees as I tried unsuccessfully to correct the misalignment by juggling with different positions of struts. It was easier in the end to start again, cleaning out all of the old araldite from the holes in the wing, scraping a tiny bit more from a couple of struts and re-assembling the structure. This time I intended to make sure that horizontal alignment would be correct AND that the wing leading edge would also be at the correct angle. This meant that the wing had to be on top this time so that I could hold the hull and wing at the correct angles. I abandoned the styrene jig and used other materials instead viz a pile of books, a paint pot, graph paper and a pair of my late mother's hair grips.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4593/39107751182_730bb0b985_c.jpg)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/22zPshs](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4590/39107752362_3ed5ea3e7f_c.jpg)[url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/CZsGT8](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4728/24279094357_e3624a5b53_c.jpg)[url]
This time it worked! I know that some of you write/talk about kits "fighting you" - this is not a kit but I certainly have had a battle with this particular assembly. I have checked both the alignment of the wing to hull - correct, and the height of the wing tips from the desk top - there is about a 2mm discrepancy and as I cannot see it by eye I can live with it. So here is the model as of this evening, ready for me to start putting the large under-wing V struts into place. I am breathing normally again and I think that I should be able to complete this before the January deadline, provided that I do not drop it or run into another unforseen problem.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/CZsHgx](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4638/24279095657_48f20276f9_c.jpg)[url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/CZsHw2](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4729/24279096497_b64ef0e076_c.jpg)[url]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/CZsHJ6](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4592/24279097197_e95e4d9f1c_c.jpg)]
Thanks for looking.
Stephen (aka von Jigmeister)
My apologies for the repeated photos and text in the original post of this part: I was having real problems with Flickr and did not realise what a dog's breakfast this had become. Hopefully this is better now. (https://flic.kr/p/22zPrW7)
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Still wow!!
I'm struggling to find anything stronger to say
I've also been through those struggles in the past when something that should be simple fights you to the end. And you won!
Oh, and now it looks more like an aeroplane than a boat - result!
Richard
<Richard makes a note - buy another large box of exclamation marks>
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Stephen,
I should have known! I didn't label you von Jigmeister for nothing, and again you've lived up to the title. Great work, great results, and your improvisation skills save the day again, and a beautiful model emerges!
Cheers,
Lance
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Enjoying a work of art that I will probably never see again, in any scale (come on WNW, LOL)
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:o Wow, what a great model! With the wings on it looks so great.
chapeau!
Manni
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Evening All,
Thank you Richard, Lance, Juan and Manni for your very complimentary remarks. As always I really appreciate them especially as they come from modellers who's skill and ingenuity I greatly admire and respect. The jig has not finished work yet either Lance, as you will see bleow.
I am aware that time is pressing and that I will be away for part of the holiday break - specifically New Year so I want if possible to have this finished before I go because I will not then be thinking about it all the time. Of course there is still plenty of time for me to make more mistakes, as I found out today - details to follow, and I do need to allow some time for the possibilities of these happening again! The deadline for the GB is 7th January 2018.
I had cut the underwing V struts from 40 x 120 thou Evergreen strip - 2 pairs per side - and scraped and shaped them into aerofoil section a little while ago. I had also painted them and drilled holes to take the angled braces between the struts and the upper V and the wing. I drilled two holes on the upper side of the lower struts to take a pair of generators later.
I had measured the lengths from the plans and thought that I had allowed a little extra for trimming to the actual required size.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4599/39173314482_5d7a6ff61a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22FBtBQ)
In fact I had not! Do not ask how....... as stated in an earlier post if you need advice on how to get things wrong, just ask me! The struts on the port (left) side were just 1mm too long, but on the starboard (right) side they were 2.5mm too short! So I proceeded to put the port side struts on and am in the process of making new longer ones for upper V the right side: I have cut down the existing longer ones to make new short ones if that makes sense! Fitting them was much easier than I anticipated. The photos show that I had already cut the ends which will attach to the small lugs on the sides of the hull and it was a simple job to just file the last few microns to be able to get a near perfect fit. The the top of the lower V and bottom of the upper V ends were filed flat where they are attached to the hull to remove the paint and improve the junction between the pairs as the originals seem to have been welded together. The ends which attach to the wing had also been filed so that they would fit snugly into the slots which I had drilled and cut to receive them. I glued the upper pair at the V joint first, and when this had dried for about 15 minutes I made the final adjustment to length and glued it into place. The lower V was fitted in the same way. Finally I measured the gaps between the struts on the model using dividers and cut lengths of 40 thou rod to make up the bracing both between the struts and the struts and the wing: the ends of the rod were fixed into the holes in the wing and struts which had been made earlier.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4686/39173313042_0cc81f6c9f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22FBtc1)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4727/39173313512_d1c6f0a688_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22FBtk7)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4682/39173314152_60fc5bdc79_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22FBtw9)
The jig that I had prepared earlier to support the model while I put the wing on came into its own for this operation, and I shall use it again when I attach the remaining struts and add the rigging in this area. And before anyone asks what ids the hole doing in the hull, it was not a drain on the original aircraft! This is a large model for me and I therefore intend to display it on a covered base: I want to try to represent the turntable outside the hangar at Seemoos where the machine was built which can be seen in the photographs referred to at the start of this thread, and I have had suggestions from two people that I should motorise the turntable! I have bought a railway turntable motor and the hole in the hull was drilled to take the drive shaft from the motor. I will start a new thread to describe this when I start to make the base in January, and will post it in the relevant section.
Thanks for looking..
Stephen. (von Jigmeister)
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This build continues to amaze me, brilliant work fitting the top wing and the strut work is superb.
Des.
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Des is correct! Brilliant work indeed! The model has taken on a whole new look with the upper wing in place. The struts are looking terrific!
RAGIII
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That is one great model, of one odd looking aeroplane! Simple does it -I tend to over-analyze stuff too and either get it perfect on the first try or not at all! :)
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Evening All,
Tank you Des, Rick and Jeroen for the very kind comments.
Time has been pressing because while there are about 10 days to go to the end of the GB of which this is part, I do not have 10 days at home between now and the end of the GB so I have been spending as much time as possible trying to get this one done.....and have succeeded as the following will I hope show.
First I completed the large under wing struts and bracing on the port (left) side, having made a new pair of longer struts for the purpose.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4640/25468727168_35e59f7561_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ENzTgE)
This meant that I could now rig both sides and I decided that this would be a good time to finish rigging the boom too.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4640/39336174101_101b537e74_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22W1b7i)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4729/27559360929_6bab0ab620_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HZjVRk)
I have been making the propellors on and off during the build, and I had made the spinners at the same time as the cockpit screen, so it was time to put these together:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4734/27559356629_59523689e4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HZjUzc)
I realised that the propellors needed backing discs - easily sorted by marking out circles of the correct diameter with a pair of dividers on a sheet of 30 thou card and then cutting the circles out and finishing them with a file. These were glued to the backs of the spinners and any small gaps filled and the result painted again:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4734/27559360069_ca6a904967_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HZjVAv)
These were not fitted until the rest of the model was nearly finished. Next up were the small generators on the V struts: small pieces of 60 thou rod were shaped and propellors made from 10 thou card. Two small legs from 20 thou rod were added so that they could be secured to the struts. The aileron horns were cut from 20 thou card and shaped with round and flat files and glasspaper, and then painted. I have started to add them to the port (left) aileron in this image. The small pieces in the middle are the generators:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4589/27559358279_34a854c26c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HZjV4D)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4735/27559359119_519aaa06c1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HZjVj8)
With the ailerons ready I inserted three small pieces of wire in holes which I had drilled into the leading edges of each aileron: the wires were held with CA. The other ends of the wires could then be inserted into holes in the trailing edges of the wing and also held with CA, and the control wires added to the horns. With the rigging finished it was time to go for the finish.... the propellors were added one at a time, again using wire to hold them in place in the nacelles. Two clear windscreens were shaped from some acatate sheet which was part of an old bubble pack from an Airfix kit from years ago - also CA'd into place. Last but not least I had to cut lengths of 30 thou plastic rod to add to the elevator sub-assembly so that this could be attached to the rear ends of the tail boom and the model is finished.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4638/27559399699_c50e79d322_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HZk8nM)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4601/27559400629_d2b001f819_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HZk8DP)
I am sorry about the quality of the photos but the light at the moment leaves a great deal to be desired and the weather is not suitable for taking this rather delicate model outside! I will post more photos in the completed models section soon.
Stephen.
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Congratulations on meeting the deadline Stephen, and also on a very fine model! I'll be watching for the photo coverage in the Completed Models section.
Cheers,
Lance
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WOW!
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Looking real good very nicely done indeed.
If I may give you a tip since you are using wood to make the fuselage.
Next time try to divide the hull for instance in to 4 blocks of wood witch make up the final dimensions then before you glue them together spray all the glue sides of the square black then glue.
The point of this will be a nice crisp black line in the centre of the block from witch you can measure of no mater how much you sand off the lines always stays there, at least that's how I do it, keeps your hull aligned and more accurate.
Regards Ron
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Thanks for that tip Ron: I will remember that for next time.
Stephen.
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Stunning results. The props added the final touch.
RAGIII