forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: smperry on July 04, 2016, 05:34:46 AM
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This project was begun circa 2003. It got as far as having the top wing glued on when something, a Datafile or magazine, fell off a shelf and removed said top wing. Being a 3 bay biplane, that's a lot of struts and strut holes to clean up. It has sat in a box ever since.
The PS.7 was a French bomber of around 1917. My sole source of reference is French Aircraft of the First World War. I wanted my first scratch build to be something unlikely to be kitted, of simple design and have usable drawings available. The PS.7 fit the bill.
As I recall, I built the fuselage like an all balsa flying model using plasticard instead of balsa. The wings are as per Harry Woodman except i used styrene cores instead of balsa ones. Over the course of time the double sided tape has given way on the undercambered undersides of the wing. Looks more like an inflatable pool toy than a wing. Fixing that issue properly is going to make or break this model and will be the first order of business.
Not sure when I will begin in earnest, I may have to clean up the parts from a kit or two just to get enough sprue to rig this 3 bay spiders web. At any rate, it's time to finish this thing if for no other reason than to be able to say that i scratchbuilt one.
sp
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Interesting project, it'll be great to see it saved!
Ian
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It will be great to see this model saved and bought back to life again, it is quite an attractive aeroplane.
Des.
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Never heard of this type (nothing new there!) - this means that it is an exciting project because there will be much to learn. It looks to me as though this should be salvable and will build into a very attractive model. Do give it a try and keep us posted with progress.
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Nice scratchbuilt, please save it
The problem with double sided tape is a common one... at some time it releases the plasticard and you end up with an inflated balloon.
You can try with an hypodermic syringe and liquid cyanoacrilate, but at the end of the day it is better to leave everything as is
looking forward to the completion of this build
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Thanks for all the kind words and encouragement y'all. I work an hours drive south of where I live. I keep our camper trailer about 5 min from work and stay there during my work week. I brought the PS.7 with me this time so I can work on those wings.
My plan of attack is to open up a slit in the underside between each pair of mainplane struts. Easier to get the CA in and since it is on a rib, it shouldn't leave any noticeable scars. Then again plans of attack rarely hold together after first contact. The model is definitely worth finishing and I'm glad I took a friend's advice to put it away in a box until I got over pouting about breaking it. Hey, a 13 year pout, that even has the wife's record beat.
I work nights, so I'll try to make a start tomorrow and take some pics as I go.
sp
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At first: Finally a Paul Schmidt! Wonderful, you'll manage these problems. Don't bin it!!
Secondly: "There is something fundamentally amiss with a society which forces it's modelers to work for a living." I feel humble and deeply touched by this extent of pure whisdom.
Borsos
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Borsos
I'm not going to pitch this one after hanging on to it for all this time.
Glad you like my tag line. I'm too old not to call it like I see it.
I'll have to find a translation program on line to figure out your lines. I have enough trouble with English, other languages are a mystery to me.
sp
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You don't need to browse the net for that, if it's interesting for you: The first is literally "two armies fighting each other in battle is like one single army comitting suicide", it's from H. Barbusses famous anti war novel le Feu ("the fire"), that really touched me. The other one is from our German 'counterpart' E. M Remarque (from All Quiet on the Western Front) where the soldiers discuss the reason for the outbreak of the war. One says, one country had insulted the other. Another refuses to get that and states "But a mountain in France cannot insult a mountain in Germany, or a river or a forest or a wheat field". Remarques novel was the first contact that I had with the first world war. I read it about 100 times...
But I actually like your tag line much more :)
Regards
Borsos
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Thanks for the translations Borsos. Both very apropos. Always good to keep that in mind.
sp
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Steven,
What you have done on this one to date is exceptional. I am sure you will sort out the wing tape issue. I am looking forward to your restart of this one! It is kind of refreshing in this modern age of turnbuckles that someone still prefers stretched sprue as a rigging material!
RAGIII
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RAGIII
I got the hardest part over with, this afternoon I set blade to model after what to my dim recollection is 13 years. Again, I want to thank everyone who encouraged me to get on with it. And as for rigging, stretched sprue and a blob of glue was high tech back in the day. Sprue's ability to pop taught in the proximity of a hot wire has always fascinated me in spite of it's equally (in)famous tendency to burn in two if that proximity gets too close. You should have seen my 1:72 I'lya Mourmets, by the time I got done, I think I rigged one and a half of them.
I started simple with the PS.7. Looking at the underside of the top wing, I can see that I didn't take much care of it after the accident past snatching the still attached struts of of it. Each one left a nice little blob of CA/strut material/paint standing proud at each strut location. What I need is a nice little hole at each location, so I twiddled at each one with the point of a new #11 blade. This tended to pop the offending blob out in most cases. It also took a little paint with it, but not more than a little touch up will fix. Hey, it's the underside and not going to be looked at too often. It seems I had already cleaned up the holes on the top side of the lower wing before consigning the model to limbo in it's box. The first photo shows two holes cleared and the next two as they broke.
I decided not to mess with the loose tape issue on the bottom wing. It's there, but not nearly so pronounced as on the underside of the top wing. Any surgical scars would be very hard to hide there. The underside of the top wing is critical though as the skin needs to be bonded to the core or it will play hob with strut lengths and alignment, something to be avoided at all costs in a 3 bay wing cellule. The second photo hopefully shows the underside of a lower wing panel.
So I've made a start and fixed the strut holes that were clogged with glue, all with less damage than I'm known to be capable of. Next step is to cut chordwise slits in the wing skins between each pair of mainplanes on the underside of the top wing. I can use the way the skins have "inflated" and the slits to apply some thin CA and press the skins to the core as it cures one bay at a time.
sp
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Steve,
I remember when you started this a/c, and I also think I remember the disaster when it happened. I'm really glad to see it resurrected pard.
Warren
PS: Borsos, All Quiet on the Western Front was, and still is, perhaps my favorite piece of veteran fiction. I first read it when I was 12, I only wish my German skills would enable me to read an unedited German version.
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Hey Warren
I have Diego to thank for talking me into saving the model. Just today I came home and found a framed picture fell off the wall and crunched my Pup cockpit. Much less damage.
I think I saved all the struts and as I recall there was a slight difference in front and rear mainplanes. No way am I sorting through that many pieces. I made them out of split bamboo. Having over a decade to mull it over, I think I figured a better way of making than what I first did. Maybe time to try it out because I don't feel like fixing the Pup right yet.
sp
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Oh no! Can you fix the Pup? I never tried bamboo,mbut it sounds like a good idea for wooden struts...
PS: Borsos, All Quiet on the Western Front was, and still is, perhaps my favorite piece of veteran fiction. I first read it when I was 12, I only wish my German skills would enable me to read an unedited German version.
Warren, I totaly agree, and I think I was about the same age :)
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Borsos
The Pup is quite fixable. Its just annoying to have to do it. I guess gluing painted parts with minimal CA is the plastic modeler's equivalent of what RCers do when they hold the wings on with rubber bands. Pops apart rather than breaks when you crash.
I'll take photos and post them when I make more bamboo struts. Pretty easy and quite strong.
sp
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Borsos, split bamboo is a good material for struts. Try it! Just get some bamboo kebab skewers.
Warren
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Oh no! Can you fix the Pup? I never tried bamboo,mbut it sounds like a good idea for wooden struts...
PS: Borsos, All Quiet on the Western Front was, and still is, perhaps my favorite piece of veteran fiction. I first read it when I was 12, I only wish my German skills would enable me to read an unedited German version.
Warren, I totaly agree, and I think I was about the same age :)
I never read the book, but will never forget seeing the original black and white film. The most thought provoking book I've read has to be Ernst Junger's Storm of Steel. If you haven't read it, I strongly advise that you do!
ian
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I have used bamboo tooth picks for struts on a lot of my scratch builds and they have proven to be very strong and easy to work, colour nicely as well, here is the link if you wish to see the bamboo struts http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=1876.75
Des.
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Great looking struts Des. My method is a bit different. I split a plank of bamboo out of the center of a BBQ skewer. I thin this by pressing the plank against a disc sander with a squared block of hardwood and then draw the plank through alternating sides until im happy with the evenness and the thickness. Then depending on the strut im making i split the plank to the needed width.Finally i cut to length and sand the shape and cross section. I paint a base of Testors wood and then dry brush with a thinned, darker brown. Then as many coats of Future as needed to fill any remaining grain and give a good gloss. I always make more planks than i tjink ill need so i can pitch any less than ideas struts.
sp
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My computer went down and it's been a while getting it functional again. I had taken photos of my process for making bamboo struts, but was unable to reduce them in size for posting.
First photo is splitting a plank out of the center of a bamboo BBQ skewer. This gets the maximum width out of the skewer.
Second photo is dressing the plank on a sander. With a little practice you can get it smooth and even, a little more practice and you can do it without sanding the skin off your knuckles.
Third photo is splitting the dressed plank to the desired width for the strut.
Fourth photo shows the base color, drybrushed color and Future ready to use.
Fifth photo is the painted and finished strut material ready to cut to length.
sp
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The final two photos are of the jig I made for cutting the struts to length. I copied the drawing and cut the relevant section out and pasted it on the jig to ensure exact length. The final shot is of progress to date. Getting the top wing on will be fun, perhaps I should hire one of those multi armed Hindu deities to assist.
sp
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Beautiful work on the struts, Steve! Going to have to give this technique a try.
Cheers,
Bud
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Thanks for showing your process of making the struts Steve, they turned out looking really good.
Des.
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Steve - if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion concerning the top wing. If the struts are vertical only place the outer ones first, support the wing and allow it to dry. The remainder of the struts will then go in singly without too many problems. If there is dihedral I create a simple jig to hold the fuselage lower wing still and then supports for the top wing and once again only put the outer struts and cabanes on first. This method allows the modeller to put in enough to get the top wing into place but allows the inner struts to be put in without having to juggle with a large number simultaneously. If you look at some of my builds you will see what I mean.
Good luck whatever you choose to do.
Stephen.
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Stephen
In removing the CA in the strut holes, i now have a bit of a di ot at each strut locarion. My plan is to glue the outer struts and then tickle the others in place before gluing...all the while trying to keep the wings aligned and not drop the fool thing.
I can always build a jig, but i dont build many 3 bay wing celules, so i gotta try it by hamd and eye first.
sp
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Stephen
In removing the CA in the strut holes, i now have a bit of a di ot at each strut locarion. My plan is to glue the outer struts and then tickle the others in place before gluing...all the while trying to keep the wings aligned and not drop the fool thing.
I can always build a jig, but i dont build many 3 bay wing celules, so i gotta try it by hamd and eye first.
sp
Steve,
The struts are looking great! Good to see that some are still seat of the pants modelers like myself who has never built a jig and only lost one wing mounting battle in years ::)
RAGIII
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ROTFL
Always admired people who can envision and then construct a proper jig. I compensate by loudly proclaiming that if your eye can't tell it's off, then it's dead on. Not necessarily true, but if repeated loud and long enough, it isn't hard to talk yourself out of building a jig. :-)
sp
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Steve,
It's great to see you back here with this one. You're in fine form, and your tutorial on the struts reminds me of the old days.
Warren
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Got more than a little side tracked. My wife was diagnosed with cancer and fighting that kinda took all my attention for a while. Well worth it though as she has been declared cancer free two scans running now.
I recently dug out the PS.7. and managed to get the top wing back on. I am now at the point where I was when the book fell on it about 10
years ago.
I plan to rig it with stretched sprue. I lost the large bag of sprue pieces I had collected and now I need to find a kit in the stash that I haven't cleaned up the styrene parts yet. Not sure a 3 bay biplane is the best subject on which to jump back into rigging after so long, but if I can pull this off, rigging everything this side of an I'lya Mourmets should be a piece of cake.
sp
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Great to see you back on this one. Looking terrific. Even better to hear the Great News about your wife!
RAGIII
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Thanks. Momma is back to being ornery and there is plastic on one bench and balsa on the other, so things are looking up for a change. Just spent 15 minutes on hands and knees searching for an errant piece of PE. That kinda modeling fun I have not missed.
sp
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Started the rigging with the aileron control cables. I trimmed the sprue dead close... I thought. Seems my camera sees a lot better than I do. Well, next job is to trim those little lines much closer.
sp
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sp,
I missed this thread earlier, some great "old time" modelling going on here and nice to see! Great news about your "Missus" as well, pass on our very best. In the unlikely event that you can't come up with a supply of sprue send me your mailing address and I'll send you a supply (I never throw anything model related away, just ask my "Good Wife"............
Looking forward to seeing this one rescued and completed.
Cheers,
Lance
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I too missed that this had been revived. Good to see that you are back with the model and it is certainly looking good at the moment. I will be interested to see how you get on with stretched sprue - I gave that up years ago because I found that I could not get consistent thicknesses, but don't let that put you off.
Stephen.
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Stephen
I ran into the uneven thickness issue and it can be a problem. The solution for me falls under the main advantage of scratch building and that is: you can tolerate a huge amount of wastage as long as you eventually get what you need.
A properly pulled piece of sprue should be pretty much the span of your arms stretched out. Out of that 4 ft or so there is a fairly even section about 12 or 16" long. That's the cut of steak I use. I throw the rest of the cow in the trash. The throwing in the trash part is the most important because it keeps you from grabbing some of the less ideal pieces when you start running low on the good stuff.
Besides this is 1:72. The thought of trying to rig this scale with mono makes my eyes cross and my head ache.
sp
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Great aircraft choice!
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I started the rigging process. This model was started so long ago that I do not remember what lies I told myself about rigging a 3 bay biplane. I must be very gullible or a good liar...maybe both. Nothing for it but to keep at it until it is done.
sp
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That is precisely how I rig biplanes - start with the fore-aft wires between the struts and then I put the rear ones in - decreasing difficulty of access. It generally makes the rigging process much easier.
Stephen.
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Looking awesome!
RAGIII
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I finally finished my PS.7. 16 years after I started it. It had just gotten its top wing when I knocked a book off the shelf and smashed it. I worked it on and off over the years and now it is done.
The model went win any prizes, but it is a credible likeness to a PS.7.
While I was out finish it, the cat had gotten in the room where my laptop sits. With no litter box handy, I guess the laptop keyboard was the next best thing. Killed that laptop dead. I'm still fuming about that when the AC quits. The goat who lives in the back yard snagged a wire coming out of the AC unit with his horns, broke it, caused a short and blew an internal fuse. 70 bucks to have fixed.
Unlike Lance's dog, neither the cat nor the goat has shown the least sign of contrician. So I M down to accessing the internet on my phone. I will attempt to post a pic of the PS.7, if the phone let's me
sp
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Now that was a Tough Day SP! I hope you are recovering, I would need lots of Beer ::) Looking forward to the photos!
RAGIII
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The new computer is fighting me every step of the setup and I'm drinking some of the wife's Jack on the rocks to counter the urge to feed the wall my new computer.
I have to deal with calling my ISP for assistance in getting email working on the new machine. The mini USB jack on my phone doesn't work so I have to email myself the pics so I can deal with them on the laptop. Hope to have pics of the PS.7 when I get those issues straightened out. Starting to really dislike that cat. This is more computer mumbo jumbo than I can calmly take. I truly dislike these machines, which is different from disliking what can be done with them...when they work.
sp
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SP,
Forgive me, but I confess to bursting into laughter when I read the account of the cat and goat's escapades. Since I wasn't the victim it truly was humorous! As for the new computer I feel your pain, I dread the day this old desk top of mine "calves"!
Congratulations on this great milestone, a 16 year shelf of doom journey has to be a record of some sort. Great stuff, and I'll scoot over to Completed Models to get a better view of your results!
Cheers,
Lance
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When i first got my cat Blau ( blue ) , he was a little devil and broke many projects that were finished or near finished some even half through . He stopped that when he cut his paw on a blade . Never went near the bench again and left my airplanes alone . Sieben ( seven ) is another torrorer on four legs . He has knocked a few of the shelf . One which I'm still sore about is Tamiya's 4FU -1 birdcage in 32 scale . It was my Dad's favorite warbird and it has a bit of his ashes in the fuselage . I still haven't repaired it yet , they wings were folded making it not an easy fix :-\
Computers aren't my thing either and I feel your pain there as well . They are very frustrating for me .
When the repairs are made I look forward to seeing the pic's ( shaking fist at computer ) . I really like , and for your first it is most excellent ! Which i hope will lead to more in the future :)
Terri , just gott'a love our pets !