forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: Squiffy on February 07, 2016, 07:28:25 AM
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After learning a few things with my first ever scratch-built aeroplane (The Eastchurch Kitten) I have decided to tackle something larger and more complex. Although scratch-building is interesting in itself there is no point in scratching something that can already be bought as a kit, especially if, like me, your skills aren't going to better a kit.
So, I've decided to have a crack at a DH10 because, as far as I'm aware, there is no kit currently available.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7908/39861680743_d7a271699a_c.jpg)
The wing parts are made from laminated plasticard. To get a curve repersentative of an approximate aerofoil shape, rather than simply flat plasticard, I squashed the parts in a vice and left them overnight. When the vice was released they sprang back to a flatter section but with just enough curve left in them. Filing and sanding the leading and trailing edges did the rest.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7918/39861681013_a2a50f1f46_c.jpg)
The scale drawing was printed off and the ribs marked on in pencil so that once the parts were taped on to the drawing the positions of the ribs were easily located. 0.010" x 0.020" microstrip was fixed in place by brushing liquid MEK on.
The next thing will be to use the same material for the shorter ribs on the leading edges.
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What a great project you have taken Squiffy, I will be following along closely.
Des.
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Awesome project, Squiffy! I'm looking forward to following this one. I've got an old Aurora DH10 that I plan on updating soon. Maybe this build will inspire me to start on mine.
Cheers,
Bud
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I hope you have let the wings dry long enough my first wnw albatros has sinkholes at the trailing edge witch apeared mounths later.
Why not buy 3/4/5 mm solid styreen plate depending on the thickness off your wing ofcourse and file/sand it out.
I have redone the Ansaldo top wing 9 times and i had the blanck ready in 30min using this technique.
I use a rough metal file half round and one flat end for the rough profile then switch to a fine halfround metal file when iam happy whith the shape i use a shapry to color the whole wing red then wett sand it whit p180 unthil all the redd is gone then color it red again simple sharpy will do with a big tip and go p240 repeat this unthil you reach p1000 and presto wing shape done when you get the hang off it youl be able to do it in 30 also.
Keep in mind though to keep about 0.10 oversize when rought so you can do the final shaping with sandpaper. Do the trailing first at 0.4 and when the whole wing is smooth trim it down to an nice thickness of 0.3 0.2 maby depending on the wing again.
When doing this sand strockes shoud be moving frome the leading edge to the the traling edge to avoid destroing your hard work
O and when wett sanding use a kitch sponge and wrap the sand paper arround it and let the sand paper do the work.
Ron
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Squiffy,
Welcome to the world of alchemy AKA scratchbuilding my old friend. You've certainly chosen an excellent subject but be aware that the powers that be will undoubtedly release a DH 10 in 1/72 scale shortly. But in the mean time I'm very much looking forward to watching your progress. Best of luck to you.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Now that is a thread i'll be watching closely,Squiffy,for it's on a subject i've been thinkin'about doin' ever since!
Lookin' forward on how your wings will turn out!
cheers
Mathias
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A very interesting subject squiffy
It brings memories of the old aurora 1/48 kit with the wing sections resembling those of the f117.
But in 72 i think there was only a very old vacuform
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Squiffy,
Like the others have said, I am looking forward to another of your builds. This one is sure to be inspiring! Lovely start on the wing!
RAGIII
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Excellent choice Squiffy. I have my ringside seat booked!
Ian
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More done today.
As my description of "squashed in a vice" didn't really tell much, here is a pic to show what I mean.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7894/46101671384_cf90d910f5_c.jpg)
The laminated plasticard is held in steel channels (old umbrella spindles, which will go on to become rain gutters on buildings on my O gauge model railway) and the vice tightened to give the plastic a curve. It is somewhat overtightened as the plastic will assume a flatter state once removed but retains just enough curve.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4861/39861681233_6beaf685c9_c.jpg)
Clockwise from top - Bare blank wing, Sanded and ribs added, Leading edge ribs added and smoothed, finished wing with coat of paint to see how it looks.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7887/46101672184_e296448e9c_c.jpg)
The aileron is represented by scoring with an OLFA cutter both before and after adding the ribs. The cutter actually takes out a tiny piece of plastic rather than scoring and leaving raised edges as a Stanley, or craft knife, would do.
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Exellent work and great choice.
Cheers
Martin
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Squiffy I always love following your builds, this is one of the most interesting ever.
Do you feel confident enough that the curved plasticard won't ever (even in a medium-long term) go back to the original flat shape?
I am just curious, because I would fear that but maybe you have deeper knowledge on the material (I have none!)
BTW great work so far!
Antonio
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Hello Antonio,
Good question. The only answer I can give is that it will definitely retain some shape but as to how much I can't be sure. I've worked with plasticard many times before when building things for my model railway but I can't think of anything I've done before that has required it to be bent to shape and have nothing to support it to keep the shape.
I guess the chaps who have more experience of building aeroplanes with this material will know for sure.
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Your wings are looking terrific Squiffy!
RAGIII
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The lower wings. Setting the dihedral with the aid of insulation tape and a couple of Bic pens.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7900/46101672764_3cb4efbfe8_c.jpg)
First part of the fuselage cut out.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4827/39861681533_b8c6dca643_c.jpg)
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Great work on the wings Squiffy.
Des.
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Very beautiful update Squiffy.
Cheers
Martin
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This is a real challenge and no mistake. Tackling a large scratch build is something that I want to do but have not screwed up the courage to do so yet! Your wings look really good - I too use microstrip (Evergreen) for the ribs and it usually works well as yours have done - tedious but effective. With reference to the plastic of the wings, I have never used your bending method - I put my card into a pipe which is sealed at one end and then pour in boiling water for about 10 seconds. I have seen a coffee maker used for this too, (one of those glass units with a plunger - whatever their proper name is…) but that will only curve short pieces and the wing on the DH 10 would be too long. Using hot water is permanent - I cannot vouch for your method as I have never tried it. The fuselage should be straightforward as it is slab sided so in all this is going to be one interesting build.
As Gregory has written - welcome to the alchemy club. Having seen your Kitten, RE 8 and FE 2 I am sure that you will be posting a lot more in future.
Stephen.
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Thanks, Stephen. I wish I'd known about using boiling water to permanently bend plasticard before I started.
Fuselage:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4867/46101673064_b15ff5a4fc_c.jpg)
The internal framing is for strength only as isn't anywhere near scale. The nose needs lots more work to get the shape right before glazing. What llooks like a depression in the side is, in fact, the shadow of the thick plasticard reinforcing that is neccessary for attaching the wings.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4881/39861681703_9890f6ed86_c.jpg)
White and black plasticard laminated. this will become the fuselage top and will require lots of filing and sanding to get the curves in. I've used alternating black and white as I hope that will help get the curves even on both sides. Cutting the hole for the Scarff ring is going to be a problem as I don't have a large enough drill bit and I've also found that drilling plasticard with large drill bits simply tears it up. I'll probably drill a chain of small holes and then open it up using a half-round file.
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Squiffy,
Drilling holes in card is a problem but a simple and effective solution which I regularly use is a pair of dividers. Set the dividers to the correct diameter and then score the hole - it takes time as you need to score gently, but I can assure you that it really does work. Look at the circular cockpits on my models and you will see why I mean.
This one is coming on a treat - I am really enjoying watching this build.
Stephen.
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Your fuselage is looking excellent Squiffy. Really moving along on this as usual!
RAGIII
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Like Stephen I am am really enjoying this build, the fuselage is looking great.
Des.
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Squiffy,
Her fuselage is an excellent bit of craftsmanship my old friend. Keep up the awesome works.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Nice work on the fuselage, it definitely looks like a 10 already! I'd go with either small holes connected up or the dividers for the crew positions, either should work nicely.
Ian
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Thanks for the encouraging words, chaps. I don't posess a pair of dividers and as I guess that cutting through 5 layers would be too much for that method. I suppose it would have worked if I'd made a hole in each before laminating them but hey ho...
I did drill a series of holes until the middle could be pushed out. I then used a half-round file to smooth and open out the hole.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7861/46101673414_ab51af6003_c.jpg)
The top in place and the process of shaping it is underway in this picture. The cockpit and nose will have to be treated differently. I may make the forward area using formers and 0.015" plasticard. Of course, having never done anything like this before, I'm having to make it up as I go along.
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You could also try using metal from a soda (or beer) can....heat it first to anneal it, then you can use the handle of a pair of scissors or something similar to rub over it until you get the curves you need!
Ian
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Squiffy,
One of the joys of scratch building is that you often find yourself doing something that you have never done before and trying to find a solution to the problem. It is a different kind of modelling - but no less interesting and challenging. You are going great guns indeed - a scratch builder in the making and no mistake.
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Outstanding Scratch building Squiffy.
Cheers
Martin
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Outstanding Squiffy! You are doing things I have never dared to try!
RAGIII
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Very nicely done Squiffy, your scratch building skills are excellent.
Des.
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Steady on, Des. I won't be able to get my head through the shed door! ;D
The fuselage is shaping up.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4861/31885570737_9fc9b29cc2_c.jpg)
The fin and rudder is done and I'm experimenting with making landing wheels from scratch using round-section plastic rod that was wrapped around a pencil and the contents of a kettle poured over it. The discs are cut out of plasticard.
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(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4857/46101673784_cfabbb7ea9_c.jpg)
Tail planes and rudder/fin in place. Rudimentary interior now fitted to the cockpit, consisting of a seat, a dash panel and a control column with wheel.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4810/31885571157_41c8c10cbc_c.jpg)
The lower wings have been drilled to take 0.8mm brass rod which fit into holes drilled into the fuselage. Shown here trial-fitted.
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Coming on nicely Squiffy, looks like she'll make a great partner for the 0/400!
Ian
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Taking shape very nicely Squiffy, starting to look like a DH.10 now.
Des.
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Coming along beautifully, Squiffy! I really like the lines of this plane.
Cheers,
Bud
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Sqiffy,
Even at the risk of causing your head to swell, I've got to tell you your DH10 is coming along awesomely my old friend. Absolutely beautiful skill and craftsmanship make this a fitting tribute to the fine art of scratchbuilding. Keep up the excellence.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Go Squiffy!!!
I love this build!!!
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Great work Squiffy.
Cheers
Martin
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You scratch build as quickly as you make kits! There is simply no keeping up with you!! An excellent update - this wings look really good and the fuselage and tail sections are just first rate. A scratch built DH 10 in under two weeks must be close to a record.
Stephen.
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Thanks everyone.
I think that progress on this will slow down for a while. The wheel-making experiment didn't turn out too well, so I've got to look at some other way of making wheels and tyres for this. Also, propellers are going to be a problem - all the props in my spares box are for fighters and are thus too small. I'd like to make the props from scratch, using wood, but really haven't a clue how to do this.
The next thing to do will be to make the struts, which will be quite tedious. I've also given thought to the engines. I have an unbuilt Roden F2B and the engine from an already built F2B. Although these are Rolls Royce Eagles, and the DH10 used Liberty engines, they're both V12 engines and I really don't think anyone could tell the difference in this scale.
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Another attempt at making wheels. This time using plasticard discs and O-ring tyres. The two outer discs sandwich a smaller diameter disc and so allows the tyre to fit as on a real wheel.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4889/46101674294_9dddc79bc5_c.jpg)
The dash panel.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7825/46101674624_61ae070101_c.jpg)
The pilot's seat, scratched from plasticard, and the wheels/tyres. To be honest, the tyres are slightly undersized but as they are not glued on, merely held by their own elasticity onto the rim, I can replace them if I can find thicker O-rings.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7923/31885571657_ff8012011a_c.jpg)
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Squiffy,
Stunning work on the fuselage. Your wings and painting look awesome. The seat and wheels are brilliant!
RAGIII
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That's looking fantastic. I love those wheels!
Ian
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Ditto me re- the wheels. I too find making wheels difficult but I think that I have just about mastered the wind-plastic-around-a-pencil-in boiling-water technique.
For propellors carving in wood is possible. I am looking into using 0.5mm laminate from Cornwall Model Boats held together with varnish and then carved to give the laminate effect. Not sure if it will work yet - will have to report in the future. Try carving one from 60 thou plastic first - I use a file for most of the work: pm me if you want extra details.
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Squiffy,
Outstanding cockpit details home made wheels my old friend. This project is shaping up to be a real stunner. Keep up the excellence.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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She is really taking shape , well done so far and those wheels are super 8)
Terri
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Impressive work here. I too like your wheels. Where d'you find O-shaped rings of the diameter you need?
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Hello, Vincent. If you look at the picture you'll see that I cut a section out of the O-ring to make it fit. Or do you mean diameter of the cross-section? Either way, I don't know where they came from - they were just lying around the garage.
Main interplane struts:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4877/31885572127_877e117dc0_c.jpg)
I don't know what methods other people use but this is how I have solved the problem of getting enough strength into them. From left to right:
Plastic strip - cut in two - cyano-glued to a length of .5mm brass rod - cyano glue liberally dripped on - hardended glue sanded - strut painted Humbrol 110 - strut overpainted with Tamiya clear orange and ends painted black. The brass wire will be trimmed to the exact length before fitting and, of course, the last four steps repeated for the other side of each strut.
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Stunning work!
Cheers
Martin
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Very innovative way to get the struts in order! Your DH is looking awesome!
RAGIII
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Very nice work on the wheels and the struts Squiffy.
Des.
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Cheers, chaps.
I've been looking on the internets for pictures of Liberty and Rolls Royce Eagle engines. I've also been looking up their dimensions. The result is that the Roden Eagle engine seems to be underscale. Not only that but comparison of the engines reveals that the angle of the V is a lot wider on the Rolls engine.
So, it looks like I'm going to have to scratchbuild the engines after all.
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I lost track of this, glad I found it again Squiffy. Great modelling, you are really doing a wonderful job on this. I'll be following more closely from this point on.
Cheers,
Lance
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I lost track of this, glad I found it again Squiffy. Great modelling, you are really doing a wonderful job on this. I'll be following more closely from this point on.
Cheers,
Lance
The same here Squiffy - I`m glad to be dropping in more frequently to the scratch builds section - your model shapes up extremely well. I think the wheels turned out really good!
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One Liberty engine under construction.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7926/46101675234_ea6c6a08aa_c.jpg)
Everything is made from various thicknesses of plastic rod, bar and card, with the exception of the cone at the business end, which is made from the end of a chopstick!
The next thing will be to paint this and then add the inlet manifolds and piping - and, of course, repeat the whole business for the other engine. As only the tops of the engines will be seen sticking out of the nacelles I don't intend to detail the crankcase any further.
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Wow! Great work on that engine, Squiffy!
Ian
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That is a super engine - and in record time too!
Stephen.
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I'm calling this engine done. The other is at the crankcase and cylinders stage.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7839/31885572447_de9762171e_b.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7860/46101675324_49af50527c_b.jpg)
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An amazing looking engine, Squiffy!
Cheers,
Bud
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An amazing looking engine, Squiffy!
Cheers,
Bud
I agree 100% with Bud!
RAGIII
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Great looking engine!
And thanks for showing how you make struts, I've been scratching my head over this several times. Most online build reviews note using Contrail or Aeroclub (if I remember right) strut material, but I can't find that anywhere.
This seems to work well, and is probably much stronger, too!
Jeroen
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Beautiful engine Squiffy.
Cheers
Martin
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Thanks, chaps. The other engine is now finished, although I've had to remove the exhaust on one side of the first engine as the inboard sides of the engines need to have struts on the inside of the exhausts, between the engine and exhaust.
Yesterday I spent a couple of hours cutting slivers of masking tape and sticking them to the wings. I sprayed them last thing yesterday and today I peeled off the masking tape.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4917/31885572627_1de5c87081_c.jpg)
This evening I fixed the 8 outer struts in place.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4832/46101675634_b979b86320_c.jpg)
And then trial-fitted the upper wing. Also shown are both finished engines.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4895/31885573107_a91318c0e4_c.jpg)
Next on the agenda is the manufacture of the engine nacelles and radiators.
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Lovely work Squiffy, she's really looking good....
Ian
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Yes, that's your best engine yet, Squiffy!
George
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Amazing work, Squiffy! Terrific job of the
engine, my friend.
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Just getting caught up on your progress Squiffy, fantastic work! This is a really unique addition to your collection, all the elements of a real Scratch Build.
Cheers,
Lance
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For a scratch build this is very fast indeed, but you are not sacrificing quality. This will be an excellent model when finished - and an interesting build log too.
Stephen.
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Very fine update.
Cheers
Martin
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WOW, I missed a day and you have painted and made it a biplane ;D Looks stunning ! Amazing work at light speed!
RAGIII
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Thanks for all the comments, chaps.
Now here's something I've never attempted before...
I had a go at making a propeller out of plywood but it went a bit wrong and was also quite hard to work. I thought it would look good made from wood but when I looked at the pictures, and realised that most of the propeller needed to be painted (canvas covering), I decided that I may as well use plasticard.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7863/46101676054_b5be0da405_c.jpg)
Now I just have to make another to match.
Engine nacelles.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7834/31885573547_07160db81e_c.jpg)
The beginnings of the radiators. Plasticard with holes drilled in and lots and lots of lines scored into them.
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Excellent propellors and engine fronts.
I have been experimenting with wood propellors and will send you details when I have finished. Will also post some notes here for others in the future.
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More impressive with each update! The prop looks gorgeous as does the radiator fronts!
RAGIII
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I wasn't happy with that prop. It was too wide at the boss and blades, not thin enough in the blades and generally didn't look right. I'm re-working it and may show the results later, if I'm happy with it. If not I'll start again.
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More impressive with each update! The prop looks gorgeous as does the radiator fronts!
RAGIII
I totally agree! Even though you are not satissfied with the prop it looks very good IMHO. Carving a wooden prop of a proper thickness and shape in 1/72 must be really hard!
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Hi Squiffy
I have only just caught up with this one. What a build, I love your stuff anyway but this one looks like it is going to be a cracker. I would like to help with the propellers but I have never actually scratched them from start and instead tend to use kit ones from the spares box and modify them with the scalpel, file and/or filler.
Alan.
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Thanks, Alan. I'm happier with the props now. I altered the shape somewhat and took almost half a millimetre off the width of the broadest part of blades.
I've been thinking for a while how to make the Scarff rings. The first attempt was using plastic bar but I couldn't get the join right and then ruined it when trying to get the ring shape to be perfectly round by taping it to a paintbrush and immersing it in boiling water. The glued joint came apart so it went in the bin!
Then I considered opening out the hole in a washer but that didn't have quite the result I wanted so I called in the heavy artillery.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7834/45912423755_4b5bce5cde_c.jpg)
The result: two brass rings.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7917/31885994937_9231e54ef4_c.jpg)
With the rings drilled and brass rod soldered in they were placed on the fuselage but not yet fixed in place. I have to make up the small details on the gun mount. I think these are going to be no more than some tiny slivers of plastic just to give the impression of the mount details.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7925/46827276091_8fed2d0a15_c.jpg)
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Nice piece of lathe work Squiffy.
Des.
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Thanks, Des. I haven't done anything with this since making those rings. In fact I haven't done any aircraft modelling at all in the past couple of weeks as I'm working on my model railway at the moment. I keep looking in at the forum now and then and I will be getting back to this sometime soon but it's good to have a break and do something else for a while.
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I think we all go through phases with our modeling, to be quite honest I haven't sat at my model bench for months, a break does us all good and revitalizes our modeling mojo.
Des.
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I think we all go through phases with our modeling, to be quite honest I haven't sat at my model bench for months, a break does us all good and revitalizes our modeling mojo.
Des.
I thought I was the only one. I haven't done much modeling lately either.
George
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Great job of the Scarf rings, Squiffy! Every once in a while I have
to remind myself this is 1/72 scale...amazing stuff, my friend!
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Afternoon, chaps!
It is almost three years since I last posted in this. I have just gone through the entire thread in order to replace all the dead photobucket links so the photos can be viewed once more and I hope to be able to get on and make some progress with the model soon.
It has been sat in my shed for three years and the wings have held their shape, so at least I know my methods work and last!
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Looking forward to seeing this one finished. Do post some more - it as a very interesting build.
Stephen.
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I have just gone through the entire thread in order to replace all the dead photobucket links so the photos can be viewed once more
Thank you very much for doing so! I think I missed this thread originally as I don't venture into Scratch Builds very often. I enjoyed the thread and am keen to see what's next.
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Another year on and I have done a little more work on the DH10. It has the upper plane fitted and I have begun to rig it. Unfortunately, I found a lot of tiny cracks in the top of the fuselage, which had to be filled. I have also rebuilt the nacelles so the engines actually fit in them.
I would post a picture but since the Photobucket fiasco, I closed my account there and put pictures on my own webspace but my internet provider withdrew users personal webspace, so I can no longer show photos at all.