forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
The Hobby Showroom => Aircraft in Pixels / Flugzeugwerke => Topic started by: davecww1 on April 18, 2015, 11:00:17 AM
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Hi Bo,
First, let me say great work with your 3D cad printed parts, these are a nice addition for the 1/32 scale Wingnut engines. but when I read that you are basing your 1/48 scale parts to fit the Eduard engine I believe that is not a wise choice, as the Eduard engines in the Albatros series and the Roland C.II are way undersized to fit the fuselages. The Roden engine is much more to scale, and if the Eduard engine bearers need to be widened and the cowl panels modified a little to have the correct sized engine fit then it is worth the extra effort I think. So I would say it would be better to make your excellent aftermarket details the correct size rather than make them smaller than 1/50 scale to fit the puny Eduard engine. Here is a photo that I found on the web, not one of mine but I wish to share it to show you just how far off the Eduard engine is. and I'm sure that I have a Roden engine that I can send you in the spares box if you need one...
Dave
(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k489/davecww1/eduard%20vs%20vector.jpg)
Bo,
comes any in 1:48 scale?
Martin
Yes sure, I plan on doing Mercedes parts in 1:48, Scott is sending me an Eduard engine for sizing purposes. I guess the Karaya engine is really nice but is based on the Roden block and does not bit fit Eduard kits (?)
What else do you need/want in 1:48?
edit: fixed typo
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Dave, thanks very much... I freely admit I know nothing about the intricacies of the 1/48 universe , but from what I think I have been told, Karaya already makes a very nice, true-to-scale 1:48 resin Mercedes? If this is true, then there is no point attempting to compete, well done resin will beat what I can offer on price and surface quality every time...
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I guess there is a Vector resin Mercedes as well. So I am left a bit confused as to the actual need here...
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Hi Bo,
The Vector engine looks very nice.
http://www.neomega-resin.com/mercedes-diiidiiia-517-p.asp#
As far as the Karaya one, I looked on their website but they do not show a Mercedes as available any longer. I had one of their engines in the Halberstadt CL.IV kit that they did a few years ago.
I wonder what you had thought of doing for the Eduard engine, if you were just going to scale down the parts from your 1/32 scale ones they would be too large for that engine.
But something that would be useful for 1/48 scale would be a set of details that can be added to the Roden engine like the breather tubes, air pump, and various other small details that are not included with the kit engine. Not sure how fine the detail on the 3D printing would be but I would find this to be a useful set of parts.
Thanks
Dave
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I agree with Dave, Bo. The Karaya engine is beautiful, but doesn't come with breather tubes. And the Vector engine is pricey. The Karaya was also the 160 hp version with the rocker arm boxes centered over the cylinders. Details like Taurus makes for 1/32 would be great. Perhaps 160 and 180 hp version rocker arm boxes attached With arms and even coil springs? The Eduard engines are puny and the Roden ones are beautiful as far as they go but need more detail. And yes fuel tanks that fit the Eduard kits, I would say in versions for the D. III and V/Va. Really you can only see the top part with the caps.
Drew
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BEAM who has the nice 1/48 Fokker D.VII photoetch sheets will soon be introducing highly accurate detailed complete resin 1/48th scale Mercedes D.III and D.IIIa engines. These will be the correct scale size so some slight modification to the engine bays of Eduard kits will be required.
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Cool berman I would love to try one of those out, hopefully yours will be a better bargain than the Vector ones.
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i suggested an eduard sized engine as there is the vector and pavla to replace roden sized engines. the vast majority or 1/48 kits require either an eduard sized engine or major surgery an/or trimming of pieces/parts off the vector engine to make it fit. the roden block is nicer in and of itself which is why vector et al used this as there basis. if it was just a simple thing like thinning a cowl that would be one thing but the length/width and height just dont work if you want to put a roden type engine in any kit other than rodens. which is basically the fokker d.vii series. eduard makes albatros d.iii, albatros d.v,that pfalz d.iii.d.iia,roland c.ii,fokker d.vii series,the old albatros c.iii,special hobby has the pfalz d.xii early and late the new albatros c.iii etc,hi tech has the roland d.ii which had a smaller engine,the old dml kits have a smaller eduard size engine, the karaya cl.iv would need the smaller eduard engine, and does any/all copper state kits which used an eduard copy. this list goes on and on.it personally think it would be amazing to have an engine that would be the right size to drop into 95% of all 1/48 kits requireing a mercedes d.iii series engine rather than having yet another one to fit into the roden fokker d.vii kits. this is just my opinion but it is also been something that many 1/48 modellers have lamented over for years. yes the eduard engine is slightly under scale but wouldnt it be nice if you didnt have to spend hours chopping up vitually every 1/48 kit to get the larger nice vector engine to fit in it? to me an eduard sized accurate engine series would be a godsend because you can use it without modification in every kit including the roden d.vii.
perhaps a cylinder array 1 for 160hp and one for 180/200hp with accurate rocker covers/spring detail which could be stuck on top the eduard sized kit blocks?
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Those are excellent points. I have gotten the larger engines in Eduard Albatros kits by cutting away the engine holder to allow them to sit lower. You do have to enlarge the prop shaft opening and redo the prop/spinner attachment, but it's a lot easier then reshaping the top cowling. It winds up sitting higher than the Eduard so it looks much better. I suppose there is no easy solution.
Drew
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What is about the starter for BMW and Mercedes engines?
Martin
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Hi Martin, do you mean the starting magneto ?
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww39/memaerobilia/smag2.jpg)
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maybe he means this: http://www.collectors-edition.de/FokkerTeam/Bosch.jpg
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Both were exellent, but I mean the Generator.
Martin
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generator? not the magneto or starter switch?
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I'd like to have the option having a replacement of just the cylinders up. That way the engine block or bay wouldn't need modification and the replacement cylinders could be glued to the top of the engine block. That is usually all you would see any how (unless you were leaving off any cowlings).
Mark
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Any more detailling parts were fantastic.
Martin
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yea mark that might be the ticket. get bo to reduce the size of his cylinder array for 160hp and 180/200hp do a replacement carb housing and pipes, another part for the compression riser pipe( one of each type) and the 2 diff rocker box cover options.to which springs could be added by the modeller(i dont know if springs could be done printed?). that would be a dream come tru. this would make great looking accurate engines for 95% of all 1/48 kits a simple process of cutting off the old cyl and sticking the new parts on. keeping the cyl spacing consistant with an eduard size engine would make all of the different kit exhausts useable too. if one wanted they could even "cap" rodens block with the new "top end" parts and dress up a roden fokker d.vii kit(s) which is the only series of kits that can use a roden sized engine without major surgery.
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Not sure I agree with that, while it may be easier to just glue on some detail parts to the Eduard block you would still have an engine that is almost 1/8" too short, or 6" in actual size. (1/48 scale -1/4"=1 foot) While it would be easier to just go with the small engine, many off us as scale modelers strive for accuracy in dimension, and I for one would not use the smaller engine unless I had to do something "out of the box". I have done quite a few D.VII kits in my time and you can really notice the small cylinders in an Eduard kit. The only Eduard Albatros D.V kits I have done were the first release with the metal engine, which was a larger size engine than the new tool plastic ones that first came out in the Albatros D.III? I also checked through the loft and it seems all of the white metal engines in kits like Tom's Modelworks, Copper State and Sierra vac use the larger engine, probably based on the old Aeroclub white metal engines, that while basic, are the correct size. So in my mind we can either use the small engine and detail it up to look nice but be inaccurate scale wise, or spend a little more time modifying the kit to make the correct size engine fit like it did in the original aircraft. Since it is a hobby I guess we can both be right, but I'm of the type that I would probably not buy an aftermarket set for something that I knew ahead of time was not the accurate size for my build.
Dave
yea mark that might be the ticket. get bo to reduce the size of his cylinder array for 160hp and 180/200hp do a replacement carb housing and pipes, another part for the compression riser pipe( one of each type) and the 2 diff rocker box cover options.to which springs could be added by the modeller(i dont know if springs could be done printed?). that would be a dream come tru. this would make great looking accurate engines for 95% of all 1/48 kits a simple process of cutting off the old cyl and sticking the new parts on. keeping the cyl spacing consistant with an eduard size engine would make all of the different kit exhausts useable too. if one wanted they could even "cap" rodens block with the new "top end" parts and dress up a roden fokker d.vii kit(s) which is the only series of kits that can use a roden sized engine without major surgery.
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very good points dave.but to myself personally i dont get to hung up on exact scale accuracy of the eduard engine being a smidge small, i would rather have a well detailed engine that will fit in my tons of kits that i have. i dont like to think about doing surgery to every single albatroa,pfalz,fokker etc that i build. besides i doubt any of the 1/48 kits are perfect scale anyways,none fit drawings exactly,its a few mm here too short or too long plus the scale wall thickness is off on every kit ever made. to me i would absolutely love to have accurately detailed engines to fit my kits. besides this is bo doing us a favor by scaling his cylinders so that we can pay shapeways to print some for us to use on our models. i thought berman is doing a full series that will be full size for the roden d.vii,which i would use for these kits if not one of my vector or pavla engines. i just love the eduard, special hobby, etc kits and dont want to have to scrape and slice and trim in order to force the engine in and then it doesnt sit right anyway like the prop spindle doesnt line upand you cant use the kit exhaust, etc.so i must agree to disagree and hope that we both get what maks us happy in the long run.
also the eduard white metal engine is exactly the same parts as the plastic ones.i took them out to look.as for csm they did have early aeroclub stuff in some kits but i am sure that they had an eduard resin copy in at least the hb.w12 and i thought the aeg c.iv but then i did buy them second hand maybe the parts were switched around.