forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Pre and Early 1914 Aircraft Models => Topic started by: JoeDxMB on June 28, 2012, 04:15:54 AM
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This is basically my Avro biplane so far.
The engine is not completely finished and not glued in place yet.
Next is the nigthmare of installing the top wings and all those stuts (making shure everything lines up) and rigging . I decide to do all the top side rigging before installing the fragile undercarriage with its own rigging.
I will be using EZ line. Anyone have any advice/hints on using that?
BTW, I did find a great a photo of an Avro "D" that actually did have the fuselage covered as the model depicts.
After this I wiil start on my Morane Sauliner A-1. :)
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This is a very interesting subject you have chosen, it will build up to be an impressive model. What scale is it?
Sorry, I can't give you any advice on using EZ line, I always use monofilament for my rigging, but I'm sure there are plenty of others who have used the EZ line and can give you some advice.
Des.
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It's an old Pyro 1/48 kit purchased on e-Bay . The same person was also selling a pyro 1/48 Bleriot kit and I got that too.
The Bleriot kit does depict an uncovered fuselage (that must be rigged) but at least it only has one wing to rig. :)
I just installed the four outboard stuts in the center section and it was much easier that I though it would be . After carefully preparing the struts for a proper length and conical end, they basically just snapped into place and a tiny drop of CA secured them. It makes a solid assembly to secure the top ouboard sections to.
These old Pyro kits are only moderately detailed but, the parts fit together very well and have minimal flash and ejector pin marks . They both should build to into interesting models however.
EDIT.........
I installed all the struts and they all went in effortlessly, The whole assembly is all in perfect alingment , to the naked eye at least. It is certainlty sturdy enough on its own. I will keep the lack of "strength" of EZ line in mind for future builds
Like I said, the parts of these old these old Pyro kits fit together very well. It's a shame that they stopped being produced decades ago as no one else ever modeled them in 1/48 or 1/32 kits that I'm aware of. If you see one for sale, grab it.
Anyway, the Avro is amost done and just needs the undercarriage and rigging (no small chore) and minor engine detailing, etc.
I wiil post a pic of it when finished .
BTW, I got the Special Hobby Morane Sauliner A-1 kit out last night and I can't wait to start it but, will use a bit of will power and finish the Avro first which may be in about 2 weeks or so. :)
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I endorse Red Baron's remarks about EZ Line. It has a flattish profile and tends to twist around on itself. Unless you are very careful when using it, you can end up with a rigging wire that has a noticeable twist to it.
Many use monofilament anchored with superglue. My preference is to use real wire glued with either super glue or PVA white glue. Fine electrical wire ( fuse wire) of say 5amps is good for 1/48th aircraft. Use a flat metal ruler and roll the wire on a glass/shiny smooth surface until it is rigid. I use an old set of school dividers to measure the distance between rigging points, then hold them against the rolled ( taut) wire and cut the wire to length. Then some glue at the attachment points ( after a dry run test fit!) and then place the rigging wire in position. Being real wire it helps add some strength to the model too.
There are many rigging techniques around and this is just one. Everyone eventually finds what works best for them so trial and error is the way to go. My main advice is not to regard EZ Line or any other stretchy line products as the only rigging option around.
I use 5amp fuse wire for 48th scale and 8amps (slightly thicker wire) for 1/32 scale models. As well as electrical suppliers, craft stores often have small rolls of wire in different gauges.
cheers
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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I did not realize the EZ line was not round as I never used it before . I just looked at mine with my loupe and it is indeed "flat"so, I wil keep that in mind.
I deceided to try EZ line mainly due to the amount of rigging on the Avro and the fact that I never fully rigged a model before. I'm not using any sort of eyelets etc on it.
Keep in mind that this is my first model in many years. It's become sort of a test bed for many things that are new to me.
I might try monfiliment and eyelets on the on the Morane Sauliner. :)
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looks good so far, i have the whole set of the pyro kits, the only one ive completed is the martin handasyde. it turned out well though as i took 2nd place with it at my local ipms contest. i'm still trying to figure out a viable way to rig my bleriot fuselage. its too small to drill out and i think it will weaken it anyway. i'm thinking of stretching so black sprue to .1mm ish and maybe glue it in place in sections?
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Joe,
Excellent progress to date my friend. I'm looking forward to following this Classic's build.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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looks good so far, i have the whole set of the pyro kits, the only one ive completed is the martin handasyde. it turned out well though as i took 2nd place with it at my local ipms contest. i'm still trying to figure out a viable way to rig my bleriot fuselage. its too small to drill out and i think it will weaken it anyway. i'm thinking of stretching so black sprue to .1mm ish and maybe glue it in place in sections?
I know what you mean about the Bleriot. I had the same thougts about how to rig the fusalage when I first opened the kit.
I was thinking maby some sort of thread saturated with white glue (which dries clear) to stiffen it, then cut into sections and glued in place. I will have to experiment with that .
Stretched sprue is a bit too fragiile for my sometimes clumsy hands . :)
Here's an updated pic.... rigging is next.
BTW, the rudder and tail skid has been painted, etc and is ready to be glued into place right before I rig the tail.
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Like I said, the parts of these old these old Pyro kits fit together very well. It's a shame that they stopped being produced decades ago as no one else ever modeled them in 1/48 or 1/32 kits that I'm aware of. If you see one for sale, grab it.
I believe that Inpact were the first to produce these kits in responce to the 60's film Those magnificent men in their flying machines and Pyro reboxed them.It's great to see you builing an old timer,more old timers please.
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I did not realize the EZ line was not round as I never used it before . I just looked at mine with my loupe and it is indeed "flat"so, I wil keep that in mind.
In my humble opinion, if you have to look at the line with a loupe to discern its flatness, I can't see the point in using it instead of monofilament. Flatness was the single feature that interested me and if that aspect isn't visible to the naked eye, I don't think I'll bother with it.
As I said though, that's just my opinion.
Cheers,
Chris
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I read recently that the old Pryo kits were going to be reissued by Lingbergh theyvare nice basic kits. I've built the AVRO biplane and Bleroit and have started the Boxkite. Here's my biplane I built 10-15 years ago. Rigged with fishing line and PE used on the wheels
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Duckworth/Allied/AvroBipe/index.html
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I read recently that the old Pryo kits were going to be reissued by Lingbergh theyvare nice basic kits. I've built the AVRO biplane and Bleroit and have started the Boxkite. Here's my biplane I built 10-15 years ago. Rigged with fishing line and PE used on the wheels
http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Duckworth/Allied/AvroBipe/index.html
It's excellent! :)
Are those Eduard PE wheels?
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No, the PE wheels came from Toms Model Works but I used the kit's tires.
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I tried using the EZ line but I found that the elastic properties of it made it extremely difficult to work with. So, I gave up on it.
I want to try monofiliment but, I'm not quite shure what size etc to get (for 1/48 and 1/32) so, any help is apreceiated . :)
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For all my 1:32 scale models I have used 0.12mm monofilament, I use Maxima brand in Chameleon colour, it is a 2lb line or 0.12mm, very flexible and very strong and CA bonds it beautifully.
Des.
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All I could find in the US on line of the Maxima Chameleon was listed in inches of dia. I did some some conversions and none equeled .12mm.
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Joe,
For 1:32 Scale I use up to 4 pound test maximum which is .008 inches or .20mm. Smaller is better, I think any 3 or better still 2 pound test mono you can find would work and appear well. I'm presently in the process of some on-line ordering of supplies and Bass Pro Shop appears to be a great source.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Lance
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Joe,
For 1:32 Scale I use up to 4 pound test maximum which is .008 inches or .20mm. Smaller is better, I think any 3 or better still 2 pound test mono you can find would work and appear well. I'm presently in the process of some on-line ordering of supplies and Bass Pro Shop appears to be a great source.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Lance
Thanks, that helps. :)
BTW, like I said, this model has become sort of a test bed for (new to me) materials and methods etc and I probably gave up on the EZ Line too soon.
So, I tried it again and had much better success with it after I learned how to use it. I got the .003 line and it does semm to be in scale for 1/48.
However, I'm definately getting some monofiliment and the Maximum Chameleon does seem to be a good choice. I just found good US supplier that sells all sizes of it.
http://www.fishusa.com/Maxima-LeaderTippet-Spools_p.html
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Seems like you have located an outlet for the appropriate line, here is a picture of what I purchase from my local fishing supply shop.
Des.
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I'm in the US and use Berkley Trilene 2lb test . It's listed as .005" (0.13mm). I'm sure your local fishing supply shop will have it, that's where I bought mine (in cape Cod, MA)
Ian
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Seems like you have located an outlet for the appropriate line, here is a picture of what I purchase from my local fishing supply shop.
Des.
Yesterday, I ordered some of the .005"/.12mm as you pictured and also some of the .007".
Thanks. :)
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I'm presently in the process of some on-line ordering of supplies and Bass Pro Shop appears to be a great source.
Just a suggestion Lance, but I think you'll find that Cabela's has cheaper shipping costs to Canada than Bass Pro does. It might be worth while comparing the two.
On the downside, I just checked with Cabela's where I've bought all of my Maxima Chameleon monofilament and they no longer seem to stock the 2lb test. Bummer.
Cheers,
Chris
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FWIW, the vendor I posted ships internationally...... they already shipped my order and wished me "happy fishing" ;D
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FWIW, the vendor I posted ships internationally...... they already shipped my order and wished me "happy fishing" ;D
Thanks for the tip. I'll check there.
Cheers,
Chris
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I got the Maima Chameleon line today and it does seems like a great choice. Thanks Des for your recomendation. :)
It also seems like a great visual match for the EZ line so it can be used with it depending on the application.
So, on the Avro I used the EZ- line for the wing rigging (almost done) and will use the Maxima for the (easier to rig) undercarriage and tail where both areas could use a bit of extra support.
BTW, I learned to use and take advantage of the elastic properties of the EZ line instead of fighting it...... making it work for me.
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I'm presently in the process of some on-line ordering of supplies and Bass Pro Shop appears to be a great source.
Just a suggestion Lance, but I think you'll find that Cabela's has cheaper shipping costs to Canada than Bass Pro does. It might be worth while comparing the two.
On the downside, I just checked with Cabela's where I've bought all of my Maxima Chameleon monofilament and they no longer seem to stock the 2lb test. Bummer.
Cheers,
Chris
Thanks Chris,
I didn't type what I was really trying to say.....there is a huge Bass Pro Shop less then 5 KMs from my Daughter's place on the north outskirts of Calgary and that's where I'll be looking. By coincidence a fellow I met at the Western Regionals last month just mailed me 4 partial spools of the product he uses, "Dai-Riki" in 3.5 lb. (.005mm), 2.4 lb. (.004), 1.75 lb. (.003) and .94 lb. (.002) so I'm probably good for a while. I think this stuff is more used for fly tying (can you elaborate Flyjunkie?) and believe he got it at Bass Pro. By comparison the Berkley Trilene 4 lb. I use is .008 mm and is the lightest I can find locally. Not much call for the smaller weights up here when you are dealing with 20 lb Pike and even bigger Lake Trout!
I have a couple of spools of EZ Line but frankly was scared off by its "floppiness", I'll have to try it as some folks here get really impressive results with it. Can anyone tell me how to get it threaded through a brass tube/turnbuckle?? ???
Cheers,
Lance
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.....there is a huge Bass Pro Shop less then 5 KMs from my Daughter's place on the north outskirts of Calgary and that's where I'll be looking.
Hopefully you'll find what you're looking for at Bass Pro Lance. Pepperman42 was going to look at the Bass Pro just north of Toronto to see if they stock Maxima Chameleon in 2lb test but I don't know if he found it or not. You out there Steve?
I found three spools of it on e-Bay so I'll never run out at my building pace.
Cheers,
Chris
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I rigged the tail section with the Maxima Chameleon (2lb/.005) and I really like it . It's very easy to work with and looks great. Thanks for the help. :)
BTW, I know it does not look perfect but, like I said, it has become a sort of a test bed for future models and no eyelets, etc were used. I needed a model to get back into modeling after being absent from it for many decades. However, to the naked, eye, it does not look too bad. :)
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The rigging looks great, Joe. You picked an extraordinarily difficult model to rig for your first foray back into WWI modeling. After this, anything else you do will be a breeze.
Cheers,
Bud
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Be careful Joe! Rigging can become an obsession.
Nice job!
Cheers,
Chris
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Thanks for the kind words and the word of "warning". :)
Yes, rigging can be addictive but, it looks so @%^&* good when completed. ;D
The Avero is reaching the home stretch now. The undercarriage is installed and just needs to rigged and the wheels painted/installed.
Also, some minor engine detailing (plug wires and fuel line) will be done when I get some apropiate wire, etc .
The Morane Sauliner A-1 is definately next.
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Excellent work on the rigging, she is shaping up to be a real winner, well done.
Des.
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This is a lovely looking bird Joe and your rigging looks great. She'll look great when your finished.
Also, thanks to all for the information on rigging!!
Andrew
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The Avro is almost done.
However, I hit a bit of a snag . I have no idea how to rig the wing warping control wires .
I assume that the rigging that runs from the back of the upper wings and runs under the fuselage (behind the cockpit) represent this .
However, if you rig it as the instructions say, the wing warping cables conflict with the elerator control cables as it is connected to the wings very far inboard .
So I guess my question would be, does anyone know know how far outboard on the wings were the warping cables connected.
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Here's a pic of the finished Avro except for the wing warping cables.
Don't look to close as it has many flaws. It was a learning experience and if I had to do it over, I would do many things differently .
Anyway, I'm glad its finished. :)
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Congratulations Joe, you have bulit an amazing looking model, the rigging looks great as does the overall finish, well done.
Des.
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Congratulations on a most excellent Avro. It's great to see these neglected vintage kits getting some well deserved attention. Your rigging work is excellent too.
cheers
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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Congratulations Joe, you have bulit an amazing looking model, the rigging looks great as does the overall finish, well done.
Des.
My thoughts exactly, Joe. Brilliant.
Cheers,
Bud
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Nicely done Joe. I'd be proud if it was mine!
Cheers,
Chris
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Great work Joe, you can certainly be proud of her - she looks great!!
As I'm relatively new to this caper I can't help out with the wing warping cables sorry - sooner or later one of our fellow 'forumites' will come up with something I'm sure.
Andrew
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Joe,
Flaws,what flaws my friend. Congratulations she's one beautiful kite and the rigging is nothing short of awesome.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Thanks for the kind words.
Take my word for it, there are many flaws ( particularly with the wing rigging) that are apparent on closer inspection. :)
One thing that I am happy with is how the wheels came out. I first painted them CDL. Then I painted the tires with "Pollly Scale grimy black". I really like this paint as it a very usefull matt off black.
I then went over ther tires with some Tamiya black (oil stain) from a weathering kit. I then highlighted the spokes with a propeling pencil. Finally, some weathering completeted them.
Of course, they are not as good as bare spoke wheels would be but, to me, they are acceptable.
Anyway, I guess we are all our own harshest critics.
EDIT.....
The wing warping "cables" have now been installed and the Avro is now finished. :)
As it turned out, the rigging instuctions in the kit were correct after all.
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Gee she`s great! You could post more pics of her cause I`m still unsatisfied ;) Congratulations!
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Gee she`s great! You could post more pics of her cause I`m still unsatisfied ;) Congratulations!
I agree, more pic's please Sir!!
Andrew
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Awesome project Joe. I hope you'll take a shot at another one of these gems my friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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I got a couple more of these old Pyro kits ......... the "Bleriot" and a newly aquired 1911 "Martin-Handasyde".
I will definately post them in this forum whenever I get around to building them . :)