forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: michael on June 10, 2012, 01:29:43 AM
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hello all,
i am planning to treat myself to a WNW kit and would like to hear what kit WNW veterans would recommend as a good first build for a novice?
cheers
michael
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First off, as a novice, I'd go straight out of the box with the notable addition of adding rigging. That being said, I'd go with their Sopwith Pup, either edition, as it almost falls together. The Albatros kits can be a bit finicky when it comes to fitting the fuselage bulkheads, as the tolerances are so tight, so I'd do a Pup first to get the hang of things.
Cheers,
Chris
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Hi Michael;
I would agree with Chris, the Pup is a nice simple build, but looks really good when finished, the Albies look great and are a great build but you do have to be very careful with the bulkheads and even a coat of paint can prevent them fitting snugly and then your fusilage halves don't fit together properly.
Cheers
Pete.
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IMO you can't beat the Roland although the Pup is an easy build too.
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In my opinion, and if you want to avoid the (not so) dreaded rigging, then I would advise the Junkers J.I. It has a slight problem (in the wings) to correct, but nevertheless an excellent choice.
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My first was a Pup. I have a Roland and an Albie in my stash so can't compare them yet. The Pup was relatively straightforward, and a great introduction to kits of this quality.
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What is the problem with the wings?
There is a gap in the upper wing (each), near the ailerons, that shouldn“t be there...
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A nice lovely kit is the Pfalz DIIIa beautiful detail and slips together rather nicely, The Roland is nice too but requires some fiddlier rigging. Advice.. with WNW read the instructions thoroughly, take a night, then read them again. ;D
Keith
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Guy's,
Mike West of Lone Star Models has a correction piece to take care of the gap between the upper wing and the ailerons Jose mentioned. If you're wanting the medium rigging the Junker's J.I . For more complicated rigging but still not too much to handle I'd go with Keith's suggestion for the Pfalz D.IIIa.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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I'm a strong advocate of the Pup as a "first experience." Lots of potential, rigging yes but in a fairly open/accesable layout and outstanding fit of all the components. Can't go wrong IMHO.
Cheers,
Lance
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hello all,
i am planning to treat myself to a WNW kit and would like to hear what kit WNW veterans would recommend as a good first build for a novice?
cheers
michael
Good question Michael. I've been toying with getting one to put aside (I know I said I have no room for a stash in another thread but I've got a little space which would fit either a single WNW or Roden kit...). Tossing up between the Albie D.Va or the Pup. Probably go with the Pup.
Wont be attempting it anytime soon anyway :-\
Andrew
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Andrew I thought the same when I got my first WNW kits, the RFC Pup and the LVG C.VI. I wanted to practice on the Revell 1:48 DR1 and a couple of others in the stash before risking my limited abilites on the WNW models. But I opened the Pup, and built the engine first, then I was hooked.
I have built other kits since, but my "practice" for WNW kits including the Dr1 are still in the stash. There is nothing to fear with the WNW kits, I am sure you will feel the same once you take the plunge....
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cheers guys for the helpful advice it's all great stuff.
as a strange coincidence to this thread i had a look on ebay last night and came across a brand new wnw kit (junkers j1) which is quite unusual, i think it's the first wnw kit i have seen on ebay.
anyway i put a speculative bid in of £53 and to my suprise won it (they sell at hannants for £79) plus the seller only lives 30 mile down the road. very strange !
so i guess this will be my first wnw kit :)
cheers
michael
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Good luck with your build Michael, you will find when once you have built a WnW kit you will be hooked on their quality and detail.
Don't be put off with rigging, you will find your first one is quite hard, the second is far easier, after that you will find the rigging is relatively easy.
Cheers
Pete.
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I only have one so far, the Phalz DIII. They do look intimidating, but just treat each assembly as a kit in itself. {Which they are.}The fit is tight like others have said. Just be patient so you don't miss something and you'll end up with the best kit you've ever built! :)
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cheers guys for the helpful advice it's all great stuff.
as a strange coincidence to this thread i had a look on ebay last night and came across a brand new wnw kit (junkers j1) which is quite unusual, i think it's the first wnw kit i have seen on ebay.
anyway i put a speculative bid in of £53 and to my suprise won it (they sell at hannants for £79) plus the seller only lives 30 mile down the road. very strange !
so i guess this will be my first wnw kit :)
cheers
michael
Michael,
Sounds like the WNW gods have spoken my friend. Best of luck in your E-bay venture.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Congrats with your eBay find Michael. I've not seen one there despite looking!
Andrew
p.s. thanks for the advice Ian, my Roden Dr.1 is my slooow practice ;)
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Good win on the Junkers kit on ebay Michael, Wingnut kits are starting to appear on ebay more frequently now, I won a WnW Gotha on ebay only last week for $92 Australian, that's about 59 pound.
Have fun building the Junkers, it is an excellent kit and makes up to be a big model.
Des.
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Well Done with your eBay win, Michael. The Junkers is a great kit (which of the WNW stable is not?? ;D) and I'm sure that you will enjoy building it. Good luck!
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seller dispatched today so fingers crossed not long to wait :)
i guess the flip side of this thread is which is the toughest wnw kit to build?
cheers
michael
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Michael,
I'd hazard the guess the Fee would be the toughest my friend due to the rigging involved.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Michael,
I'd hazard the guess the Fee would be the toughest my friend due to the rigging involved.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Gee, thanks Gregory, I've just started mine.
Cheers
Pete.
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Pete,
I agree with Greg..............you are indeed a brave soul!
Good Luck with her, I'll follow from the wings for now...
Cheers,
Lance
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well the junkers has arrived in no time flat :)
the first thing that struck me when i was checking that all was well was the shere size of the kit, it looks huge. the wife will go nuts :) ;) :o
michael
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(http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s383/bullgill67/Picture046Small.jpg)
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Pete,
I agree with Greg..............you are indeed a brave soul!
Good Luck with her, I'll follow from the wings for now...
Cheers,
Lance
Thanks Lance, not only the rigging, it's the shear number of parts in the kit, the 'Dark Side' beckons. :-\
Cheers
Pete.
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Pete,
To quote an old Texas saying "Ain't no step for a stepper" Looking forward to your newest build my old friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Michael,
Congratulations on your Junkers score my friend. looking forward to the first progress.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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just out of curiosity before i get started on the junkers, does anyone know of any other paint schemes and decal options available other than the ones shown with the kit?
cheers
michael
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Michael,
As far as I'm aware there aren't any aftermarket options available my friend. That being said there's no telling what a little research may turn up for you.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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The data file has similar markings/schemes so the range may be fairly narrow - All green or green/mauve over blue.......now if Udet flew one........
Steve
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cheers guys :)
all i can find re aftermarket wise decals and all is the hgw seatbelt set. but then i'm no great shakes on the inter-web :(
cheers
michael
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Just out of curiosity before I get started on the Junkers, does anyone know of any other paint schemes and decal options available other than the ones shown with the kit?
You might go with a number of airframes that sported a lozenge fabric on the rear fuselage. They had (IIRC) mauve and green wings and tail feathers, no standard pattern. Here's mine, based on the only surviving complete example of the J.1:
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/DSC_0029-2.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/General4.jpg)
I had to paint the upper wing and rudder crosses as the decal sheet did not have these in the correct proportions. No big problem, as they are only straight lines: easy to mask. Hope this helps! :)
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Gary,
How did I miss this one? She's as beautiful as a junker can be my old friend. I really think the lozenge covered (or hand painted lozenge) rear section looks best IMHO. Where can I find her build thread?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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stunning job on the j.1 :) having no airbrush i dont think i could do the mauve camoflage justice!
love the lozenge at the back end trackpad (any chance of more pics?)
yea the kit options are a bit sameish which is why i was looking for something a bit more exciting :)
cheers
michael
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Michael,
Experiment on a bit of scrap plastic stock with different thinner to paint ratios . Once you've found the right ratio you can paint the the chosen camouflage without leaving brush strokes. You'll need multiple coats but with careful application it shouldn't be a problem. Don't forget modelers have been turning out expertly painted projects long before the advent of airbrushs.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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cheers Greg, i guess i have plenty of time to make my mind up as i need to finish my fokker and the group build first ;)
descisions,descisions ;D
michael
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love the lozenge at the back end trackpad (any chance of more pics?)
cheers
michael
OK, here are a few.
Interior (but you knew that one!)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/DSC_0002.jpg)
Tailfeathers. I took dozens of photos, my graphic designer son stitched them together, then I punched little holes along the demarcation lines. Taped the pattern over the parts, airbrushed along the demarc lines, then removed the pattern and filled in the lines.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/DSC_0111.jpg)
Same deal with the upper wing.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/WingPatternUpper.jpg)
Engine compartment.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/DSC_0222.jpg)
Me and the real deal: the only J.1 left in the world, two hours from my front door. I told you guys that I was gettin' old! ;D
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/DSC_0135-2.jpg)
Cheers!
Gary
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I just chased these down from my hard drive:
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/General3-1.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/General2.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/General1.jpg)
This shows the effect of using the Microsculpt "fabric texture" overlay on the lozenge. Although it comes in 1/48th scale only (IIRC), the effect is quite good IMHO:
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/Photo12.jpg)
This is the J.1 now resident at the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa, Ontario. Pretty worn after almost 100 years, but still impressive!
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/Photo1-1.jpg)
Hope these help a bit. Glad to answer any questions that I can! 8)
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cheers for the photos Gary they will be a great help :)
you have made a fantastic job of the junkers, if i can get half as good a result on mine i will be more than happy.
as for questions dont worry when i start on the kit i will be asking loads of them ;)
cheers
michael
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I took dozens of photos, my graphic designer son stitched them together, then I punched little holes along the demarcation lines. Taped the pattern over the parts, airbrushed along the demarc lines, then removed the pattern and filled in the lines.
I'm extremely impressed by your commitment to replicating the camo pattern here Trackpad. You went to alot of effort and the results were worth it. I can tell from this just how commited you are to the hobby. I tip my hat to you.
I told you guys that I was gettin' old! ;D
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/DSC_0135-2.jpg)
Pretty worn after almost 100 years, but still impressive!
I agree. Impressive indeed!! I'm only confused about the age thing here. Is it the aircraft that's almost 100 years old?? The J.1 doesn't look that worn! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers,
Chris
P.S. You just knew that something like this was coming down the line eventually, right? ;D ;D
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Gary,
Wow I believe your Junker's J.1 is most appealing J.1 I've seen my old friend. I really do think the use of lozenge fabric decals make a much more visually interesting subject. I absolutely love how the Microsculpt fabric textured overlay adds to the lozenge decals. Knowing yours is actually 1/48 scale and looks perfect to me I'm not certain the same material in 1/32 scale would look as good to the eyes.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Chris,
"I agree. Impressive indeed!! I'm only confused about the age thing here. Is it the aircraft that's almost 100 years old?? The J.1 doesn't look that worn!"
I knew something like that was on the way, and I fully expected it to come from you as a payback for my "I don't care what they're saying about you on the other threads" shot a while ago! ;D ;D
The disruptive pattern is almost right. The only part that I could not photograph sufficiently was the left upper wing section. I couldn't get high enough on the ladder to get the shots. The rest is pretty much correct, thanks to the work that my son Chris did. The J1 is in the storage hangar in Ottawa, which restricts some of the access, but the staff accommodated me as best they could. If the a/c ever gets into the main display hall, I'll take more shots of the upper left wing and repaint that part of the model to correct it. It's pretty close right now, but not as exact as I'd like. But you go with what you've got!
And, just so you've got your records straight, I'm a youthful and sprightly 67. It's the J.1 that's almost 100!! 8)
Cheers,
Gary
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cheers for the photos Gary they will be a great help :)
you have made a fantastic job of the junkers, if i can get half as good a result on mine i will be more than happy.
as for questions dont worry when i start on the kit i will be asking loads of them ;)
cheers
michael
Michael,
Thanks for your very kind compliment, and glad that you enjoyed the photos.
Ask away, my friend. I'll be happy to help you build one better than mine! :)
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Gary,
I just turned the "68" corner last month, so you aren't alone! We may be older then most of these characters but were smarter!
I"ve been to the Museum several times over the past 10 years and didn't know about the J1; how did you discover it buried in the storage area? Also I really like the effect you produced with the Microsculpt over the Lozenge, absolute realism. I'm tempted to try it on my 1:32 Albatros however I've got the rib tapes on and I'm not sure how that would work; I should have put it over the Lozenge and then added the tapes........I think??............ any ideas/thoughts?
Having said all that, very nice build!
Cheers,
Lance
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Guys, I hope that we're not highjacking Michael's thread. :D I'm sure Gregory will rein us in if he thinks that we are!
Red Baron: sorry to say that I did not keep the patterns, but I do have photos of the individual wings and tailfeathers of the model. If anyone wants these as references I'll be glad to send them along. However, a couple of things must be kept in mind if one wishes to build 586/18: it needs some extra work. First, the upper wing crosses are not included in the kit: they are slightly non-standard (in comparison with the decal sheet markings) and must be painted on. Second, the required rudder cross (slightly non-standard again) is also not included and must be painted on: same reason. Third, the fuselage registration is not included or, more accurately, the "6" in the "586" is not there. A friend of mine was able to make this up, but for personal reasons he is unable to do more. However, with the state of computer art these days I am confident that it can be made up. Fourth, the mauve is noticeably darker than, for example, the Misterkits offering. I had to mix mine using Xtracolor paints to match what I saw on the airframe (the green is easy to obtain). The undersurface tan is a mix of Modelmaster paints, again easy to do. The five-colour undersurface lozenge is available from Wingnut Wings.
Here's the composite of the lower left wing, and you can see how dark the mauve is compared to the green:
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/LowerLeftComp.jpg)
All to say that, although it is nice to be able to do a model of an aircraft that still exists, you are accordingly constrained to "build what you see and what is there." Hence the mixing of paints, detailed disruptive cam pattern work and attention to national and manufacture markings. As noted, I'll be glad to help anyone who would like to give 586/18 a try, but just be prepared to expend a bit of extra time and energy to "get it right!" ;)
Hope this helps!
Gary
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Gary,
I just turned the "68" corner last month, so you aren't alone! We may be older then most of these characters but were smarter!
I"ve been to the Museum several times over the past 10 years and didn't know about the J1; how did you discover it buried in the storage area? Also I really like the effect you produced with the Microsculpt over the Lozenge, absolute realism. I'm tempted to try it on my 1:32 Albatros however I've got the rib tapes on and I'm not sure how that would work; I should have put it over the Lozenge and then added the tapes........I think??............ any ideas/thoughts?
Having said all that, very nice build!
Cheers,
Lance
Hi, Lance, Can't quite recall how I found out about the storage hangar location for the J1. You can get into it if you call ahead and arrange a time and date with the staff. They will have a staff member with you at all times for "due diligence" and safety purposes, but they're pretty good about access.
I'd be willing to bet that you could apply the fabric decals right over the lozenge and tapes. The tapes are fabric, as are the bolts of lozenge, so you might try that and see how it works on a test section on a sheet of plasticard.
If you've been to the museum over the past few years you may be fairly close to Ottawa. I'm about two hours north. Maybe some time we can get together and talk plastic! 8)
Salud!
Gary
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Poor old thing, should they restore it or shouldn't they? The world's first production all metal aircraft should have a memorial rather then just a rusting hulk...
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Poor old thing, should they restore it or shouldn't they? The world's first production all metal aircraft should have a memorial rather then just a rusting hulk...
It's a thorny question, actually. The thin metal of the J.1 can easily be damaged more by trying to restore it. The problem is to either "make it look great," and thereby lose a great deal of the authenticity of the airframe, or to retain the authentic artefact, maintain and preserve what you now have, but accept the fact that it doesn't look 100% great. I'm of the opinion that, if they do put it on display, that a thorough, gentle cleaning be done and it is displayed with a large scale model (1/24th scale is the museum standard for their models) to show what it looked like in 1918. It's the only one left in the world, and it certainly deserves all the care and protection we can give it. BTW, you can see 1918 photos of 586/18 on the Wingnut Wings site under archival photos:
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/C23F029608E3D0ACD16AC6DE270BC292#
Actually, it's not terribly rusty. The aluminum skin is in pretty good shape except for the bumps and dimples, the framework is the same, and the armoured bathtub is only superficially rusted. The original paint is chipped and worn, but still generally quite good. That's why I'd advocate a "gentle, thorough cleaning." ;)
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Gary,
I just turned the "68" corner last month, so you aren't alone! We may be older then most of these characters but were smarter!
I"ve been to the Museum several times over the past 10 years and didn't know about the J1; how did you discover it buried in the storage area? Also I really like the effect you produced with the Microsculpt over the Lozenge, absolute realism. I'm tempted to try it on my 1:32 Albatros however I've got the rib tapes on and I'm not sure how that would work; I should have put it over the Lozenge and then added the tapes........I think??............ any ideas/thoughts?
Having said all that, very nice build!
Cheers,
Lance
Hi, Lance, Can't quite recall how I found out about the storage hangar location for the J1. You can get into it if you call ahead and arrange a time and date with the staff. They will have a staff member with you at all times for "due diligence" and safety purposes, but they're pretty good about access.
I'd be willing to bet that you could apply the fabric decals right over the lozenge and tapes. The tapes are fabric, as are the bolts of lozenge, so you might try that and see how it works on a test section on a sheet of plasticard.
If you've been to the museum over the past few years you may be fairly close to Ottawa. I'm about two hours north. Maybe some time we can get together and talk plastic! 8)
Salud!
Gary
Gary (Trackpad)
My apologies for the delayed reply. Thanks for the suggestions on the Microsculpt, I'll be giving it a try on a spare panel I've done.
I'm actually not in the Ottawa area, but in Cold Lake Alberta. We visit my Stepson in the Capital annually and he always includes the CWM and the Aviation Museum in the itinerary.
Just read your profile in Modeller of the Month, the parallels between us are uncanny: I did 37 years in "Light Blue" with all the similar impacts on modelling, did my first plastic model at the age of 9 or 10 in 53 or 54, and would you believe it was the Aurora Hellcat? (as I recall it had 10 or 11 pieces if you included the decal sheet!)
We may get to have a coffee or a drink together and talk plastic sooner rather then later. My Wife is turning on the pressure to move east (Hamilton girl who wants to go to the NOTL area) and, being old and wise, I secretly assume I'll lose this battle! I'll keep you and the rest of the Leaf Fans in the picture...............
Cheers,
Lance ::)
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Hey, Lance,
Guess what I got on eBay a few years ago, just for old times sake??
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/AuroraHellcat.jpg)
OK, back to the J.1 before Gregory kicks us off for highjacking this thread! ;D ;D
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Hope that pilot is okay after that cat bounces on the deck when the arresting hook catches...
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Hope that pilot is okay after that cat bounces on the deck when the arresting hook catches...
Artistic license gone mad. How 'bout that destroyer in the background, making smoke? Nothing like giving away your position like that! ;D
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Hi Gary.
i have been away a couple of days (bruce springsteen concert) so have not been on here.
absolutely no problem posting on here, it's all good stuff for when i get round to my j.1
as for your offer to help/advise on my j.1 i thank you very very much :)
the chances of it being better than yours i would say are very slim to non existant!
cheers
michael
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Michael,
Glad to help whenever you wish. I promise to advise only as requested, and not to intrude on your build. It's happened in the past to me when I've asked for advice, and it can be annoying. And, just to be certain of it, there is no pressure on you to start soon, or at all for that matter, if things change. 8)
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"I'm extremely impressed by your commitment to replicating the camo pattern here Trackpad. You went to a lot of effort and the results were worth it. I can tell from this just how commited you are to the hobby. I tip my hat to you."
My apologies, Chris. I spun off on a tangent and neglected to thank you for this wonderful comment. The build was a little challenging, but I am happy with the result. And if it helps others a bit, then I will be most happy with that as well. Thank you very much, my friend! :)
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Gary,
Nice Hellcat find! You are right, we digress, however hopefully age has a few remaining privileges!! On the serious side, I don`t recall that box art; what is the date on the box and the instruction booklet.
Cheers,
Lance
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Gary,
Nice Hellcat find! You are right, we digress, however hopefully age has a few remaining privileges!! On the serious side, I don`t recall that box art; what is the date on the box and the instruction booklet.
Cheers,
Lance
Lance, The kit number on the box is "40A-79," and the date on the instruction sheet is "Copyright 1956." It's exactly the same kit that I built in '55, but this sample has a slightly later instruction sheet. Box art is the same in both cases, though. There were later versions of the box art, but this is the one on the box I got in '55. Aurora historians can clarify the situation, I'm sure! ;D
BTW, if you want to PM me your email addy, I'll send you a few shots of the kit contents. 8)
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Gary,
Sorry for the delayed reply; been laboring at my supposedly "part time-part time" job 7 days straight and now I'm ready for a break. Email Add. on my Profile, would love to see a shot of the contents.
Cheers,
Lance
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Track pad, NOW I see how you did the cammo on your J 1. interesting. The one thing I did notice, is that the green-to-muave ratios seem to be about 50/50, or about even. Mine is slightly more to the green. Was the hellcat still .79c?
Michael, I'd reccomend the "Master barrels" set for the parabellum, and some of Radu Brinzen's PE turnbuckles for the rigging.
Just a thought.
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Track pad, NOW I see how you did the cammo on your J 1. interesting. The one thing I did notice, is that the green-to-muave ratios seem to be about 50/50, or about even. Mine is slightly more to the green. Was the hellcat still .79c?
Hi, Mike,
I'm pretty sure that there was no standard ratio of green to mauve on the J.1s, nor as there any standard disruptive pattern. Some were simply painted on in direct lines from leading to trailing edge. In the case of 586/18, I think that the painter had one or more extra beers at lunch and decided that he was going to "have a little fun" with this cotton-pickin' wing!
Here's an "in-game" photo of the upper wing pattern: right side is one of the photos taken of the wing section in storage (the brown wooden structure is the support frame), which gave an excellent image, while centre and left sections are drawings based on enhanced and manipulated photos of the wing of the assembled airframe:
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff205/29selley/WingPatternUpper.jpg)
The Hellcat was an astronomical $1.19 when I bought it: shot the heck out of my $1.25 allowance! >:(
Good call on the Masters barrels. They are great, as you note! ;D