forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Art => Paintings/Drawings/CGI of WW1 aircraft => Topic started by: bobbberz on June 19, 2014, 10:04:23 PM
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Hi, and thank you for the warm welcome to your site. I have always wanted to do a WIP report, so I have decided to give it a shot now. Its a good way to get feedback and critique as well as a push for me to see a project through and not give up halfway through like I tend to do sometimes. If I commit myself here with a thread like this, then I know I will push it through till the end.
l was actually intending to build a Fokker DR1. I did all the research, got all the reference files and even set up the Image Planes in 3DS Max and was ready to go. However, at the last minute I decided to push the Fokker to the back of the line (my line is only two planes long at the moment) and go for my second choice which is the Spad XIII. Reason for this is that the Fokker has been done so often and every Tom, Dick and Harry has modeled one, so I decided to go for something not so common. I'll definitely join the Toms, Dicks and Harrys club soon, but first up is my Spad.
I chose the Spad XIII because the form appeals to me and I love the look of it from all sides. It is a fast and robust fighter and has a decent history to it. It has many little detailed parts at the front which I love modeling, and at the same time it looks like it won't be such a complicated plane to model. The only part of this plane which I don't really like so much is the exhaust pipe running down the fuselage ending just below and past the cockpit. If I had designed this plane I would have done that part differently. I am sure pilots had to be very careful whilst getting out of the cockpit that they didn't burn their legs or hands.
My goal will be to model the plane in Autodesk 3DS MAX, then I'll add some smaller details and realistic damage in 3D-Coat, I'll create the UV's in 3D-Coat. I'll create textures in Photoshop and then back to 3D-Coat to paint and texture the whole thing. The murals I will then add in 3DS MAX and then post-process in Photoshop and create some concept artwork for the background and do the final compositing in Photoshop. Possibly I will finish off by creating a small animation in Adobe After Effects, but I will decide that at the end.
I'll document all the steps I take in this thread and invite whoever is interested to give me any constructive critiques, help and feedback that you can. I would truly appreciate that.
I have found some reference photos in the internet that I will use for my image planes, they were designed by Serge Desmet, and I hope he doesn't mind me borrowing them for this project. Thank you Serge.
I have already cut and scaled the reference photos in Photoshop and exported them to 3DS MAX where I created three image planes for the top, side and front views. I hope I succeed in uploading the screenshot here so you can see it. So now all is set to begin modeling.
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I'm looking forward to seeing how all this works as 3-d computer modelling is something I know nothing about! Thanks for deciding to share the process.
Ian
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Very interesting ;)
Thanks for doing this.
VB
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I am very interested in following each step of this process, thank you for choosing to post the WIP on this forum.
Des.
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Very interesting project. I've modeled a few WWII birds in 3dsmax some years ago, then I switched to car models for video games. I was using the same technique with top, side and front views in the viewports. Is that the latest Max version? mine is now aging a bit. Funny how different and yet similar it looks.
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@ Vincentm: This is the 2014 version of 3DS Max. There is a newer version out, the 2015 version, but the amount of new functions and improvements are so little that it is not worth it for me to update just yet.
Looking forward to getting started proper on this model over the weekend. I'll just be looking at blocking in the basic shapes I guess.
By the way this is a photo of my work station. I am working with a dual monitor, Intuos Graphic Tablet and a 3DConnexion SpacePilot Pro 3D Mouse (I can't live without this anymore!)
Hopefully I can get some progress pics up by the end of the weekend.
Thanks for your support!
Gary
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Weekend!!! Time to get started on my project. Actually, I was so excited to get started on my Spad that I was already awake at 6 am this morning. I knew I could get in a couple of modelling hours before my fiancé would come and give me a list of stuff she wanted taken care of around the house today. Keeping her in a good mood would buy my more time, so I made her breakfast in bed fit for a queen, and bagged myself another hour together with my Spad.
My goal for today was to get the fuselage, wings, rudder etc blocked in. I just need something to start with, a general form of the aircraft, polygons without too much detailing. 3D modelling is just like painting or pottery, where many passes are required, each time the level of detail is finer until the final product is finished.
When modelling anything symmetrical in 3D one really only needs to model half of the object and when all is finished just mirror it to the opposite side. This not only saves a lot of time whilst modelling, but also creates an exact and symmetrical 3D object. You can see in my screenshot that I have only blocked in one half of the plane, I will keep up this process until the final pass where I will then use a mirror function (or modifier as it is called in 3DS Max).
So I achieved all I wanted to today. I blocked in all the big bits. My fiancé got her breakfast in bed and is happy ..... now I am off to take care of her list of jobs she wants done.
Tomorrow I begin blocking in some smaller bits and pieces maybe the struts and cockpit opening.
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I forgot to upload the screenshot with the wireframes.
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I've never seen this before and it is really very interesting, Kiwiness. I
will be following your project with enthusiasm. Thanks for posting.
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Looking good ! I have been fascinated by the 3D process since the old days on the Drome! Tim West amongst others, used to create 3 D Models that I would have believed were actual Plastic or Stick and Tissue kits!
I am looking forward to your progress!!
RAGIII
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The shapes look good. Do you use box modelling? surface modelling? splines?
The elevator's trailing edge looks a bit thick.
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@ Ernie: Thank you Ernie, I appreciate you following this project. I will try to explain things in a not so complicated way for those who have no experience in 3D modelling.
@ RAGIII: I figured out what you meant by the "Drome". The Aerodrome website. Thank you for showing me this site, wow it is amazing, there are fantastic artists there, I think I will spend a lot of time going through those amazing artists portfolios. Thank you!
@ Vincetm: Thank Vince! I use a combination of box modelling, e.g. for the fuselage and the front wings, and spline modelling e.g. for the rear wings, rudder etc. I never really could get into surface modelling, also called nurbs or nurms. 3DS Max is not such a good Nurb modeller anway, Maya would be better for that. I'll fix up the finer detail in the next passes, including the thickness of the elevator etc. Learnt a new word now, thanks Vince. Elevator :) Is there anywhere on site I can find a list of plane terminology?
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By the way, can someone please tell me how I can post a photo to this forum thread and have it showing up as a full photo and not just a thumbnail at the bottom of the post? Thanks.
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Thank you Mista Red Baron!!! Quite easy really. I owe you a beer, thanks .... I will try this out now.
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Thanks to RedBaron I can now insert photos into my thread posts.
Today I didn't have too much time so I decided at least to get the wheel rim and tire done. For the rim I just created a primitive cylinder and extruded and beveled it into the shape according to the reference files I have. I created an axle hole in the middle and then smoothed out the whole rim. There is a modifier in 3DS Max called "TurboSmooth". I love this modifier and use it all the time. Sometimes it helps to cover up any little discrepancies in vertex/polygon alignment.
(http://www.incognito-studios.com/images/Spad/wheelRim.jpg)
For the tire I created a Bezier curve in the profile of the tire along the top inside lip of the rim.
(http://www.incognito-studios.com/images/Spad/BezierCurve.jpg)
I then applied a "Lathe" modifier to the curve, making sure that the axis of the curve was equal to the exact middle of the rim. By doing this the lathe modifier extended the curve perfectly around the inside lip of the rim, creating my tire. I gave it a black color just as "placeholder". Later I will add a little tread and more detail, but for now it will do.
(http://www.incognito-studios.com/images/Spad/tire.jpg)
I hope this resembles the wheel and tire on the Spad somewhat. Let me know if I should change or improve something ..... More progress to come in the next few day.
Cheers
Gary
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This is going to be really interesting to follow as I've always wanted to try my hand at 3D illustration, but I have no experience with the programs. I have a good handle on vector drawing in CorelDraw and Illustrator as I've drawn four view AFV drawings for years in my spare time. Bear with me here as this isn't aircraft related, but if I was to add a fifth view to something like the following, would I be able to use this vector drawing to generate a 3D image of the vehicle?
(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/AFVs/RamI-100_zps2e5f10ff.jpg)
Naturally, I'm thinking about doing the same with aircraft drawings too, if it's possible.
Cheers,
Chris
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I'm beginning to understand what it must be like to speak a language other than English!
I have no clue what you're talking about, but it's interesting anyway! ???
Ian
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This is going to be really interesting to follow as I've always wanted to try my hand at 3D illustration, but I have no experience with the programs. I have a good handle on vector drawing in CorelDraw and Illustrator as I've drawn four view AFV drawings for years in my spare time. Bear with me here as this isn't aircraft related, but if I was to add a fifth view to something like the following, would I be able to use this vector drawing to generate a 3D image of the vehicle?
(http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l474/ChrisJohnson56/AFVs/RamI-100_zps2e5f10ff.jpg)
Naturally, I'm thinking about doing the same with aircraft drawings too, if it's possible.
Cheers,
Chris
Hi Chris nice to meet you.
Believe it or not I have come across your website in the past already a couple of times. I am a kind of blueprint fanatic so I often stumble on your technical drawing page whilst out searching for drawings :) I guess you also know George Bradford?
I admire your work, respect!
Let me know if you start with aircraft drawings if you take a break from Armored Fighting Vehicles.
Regards
Gary
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I'm beginning to understand what it must be like to speak a language other than English!
I have no clue what you're talking about, but it's interesting anyway! ???
Ian
Thanks Ian ...... I am trying to keep my descriptions as basic as possible. I'll try even harder now not to make it seem like a foreign language :)
And yep it is really interesting modelling in this way. Of course it doesn't replace traditional modelling, but I think once 3D printing becomes more and more widespread it will take a step closer. One large advantage I find is that I can take my modelling workplace with me where ever I go. I can model at home in my office, in the living room or kitchen, at work or even in my car if need be :) And I never need to wash my hands of paint afterwards.
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I guess you also know George Bradford?
Nice to meet you too Gary. George Bradford has been a good friend of mine for years. I think I was 16 when I first subscribed to his magazine and I'm 57 now, but prefer not to do the math. ;D It was with George's online tutelage that I taught myself to do scale drawings. Now if I could only transfer that skill set into 3D.
Cheers,
Chris
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Thanks Ian ...... I am trying to keep my descriptions as basic as possible. I'll try even harder now not to make it seem like a foreign language :)
And yep it is really interesting modelling in this way. Of course it doesn't replace traditional modelling, but I think once 3D printing becomes more and more widespread it will take a step closer. One large advantage I find is that I can take my modelling workplace with me where ever I go. I can model at home in my office, in the living room or kitchen, at work or even in my car if need be :) And I never need to wash my hands of paint afterwards.
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Hi Gary,
Foreign language or not, I am finding this absolutely fascinating. Well done expanding your
pictures. What a novel thought, taking your modelling with you...I cannot even imagine the
turmoil if I tried that with all my, for want of a better word, stuff. ;D
I was wondering, when you complete an aeroplane, can it be used in a, or any flight simulator, or is
it not that type? Thanks again for introducing this new world to me.
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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I have a question for you experts out there. I have been working on the wheel axle and strut today and according to what reference material I could find, there is a main axle connecting the wheel which seems to be connected by a kind of locknut onto a thread on the end of the axle. There also seem to be two rods on either side of the axle which must be there to strengthen the struts and undercarriage assembly. I have attempted to model it as close as I can to what I saw in various photos, but a lot I had to improvise and kind of invent myself.
My question is this: In some photos I saw a kind of rope (sometimes a stretchy) which was tied around the axle and the two rods, in between the strut and the wheel. I would like to know if this has a use? Is it necessary? If so I will model it into my Spad as well. Awaiting some new knowledge from you specialists :)
Here is what I have modeled so far today on the axle area so you can see more what I mean.
Thank you!
Gary
(http://www.incognito-studios.com/images/Spad/axle1.jpg)
(http://www.incognito-studios.com/images/Spad/axle2.jpg)
(http://www.incognito-studios.com/images/Spad/axle3.jpg)
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Hi Gary,
Foreign language or not, I am finding this absolutely fascinating. Well done expanding your
pictures. What a novel thought, taking your modelling with you...I cannot even imagine the
turmoil if I tried that with all my, for want of a better word, stuff. ;D
I was wondering, when you complete an aeroplane, can it be used in a, or any flight simulator, or is
it not that type? Thanks again for introducing this new world to me.
Cheers,
Ernie :)
Hi Ernie. To answer your question I am not really sure, but I am guessing yes, it probably could be used in a flight simulator. I would probably have to largely reduce the polygon count or it might be too high resolution. Usually for games and such one has to keep the amount of detail to a minimum so that it loads quickly. I prefer to work on the heavy side, high resolution with lots of detail. The plane would probably also have to be rigged. Not "rigged" as you know it from traditional modeling. Rigging in 3D modeling is setting up the parts so they are moveable, like the propeller and flaps etc.
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Hi Kiwiness. Thanks for the answer to my question. You were wondering about
the "rope" on the undercarriage. It was a bungee cord, I think rubber wrapped
in cloth or canvas...not too sure about the wrapping. Anyway, it was used as a
shock absorber and pretty well all WWI aeroplanes used on the axles in some way
or another, SPAD included. Hope that helps a little.
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Very nice, clean and precise work on the landing gear. I never felt comfortable with NURBS neither. Tools are not as user-friendly as for polygon modelling, and objects quickly get pretty heavy in terms of PC resources.
I never need to wash my hands of paint afterwards.
...and paints never dry up in the cans, and you never get short of any color as well...3D models don't break in a thousand pieces if you drop them, etc etc. And more-over, you can have them fly, burn or explode! And you even can fly them! ...but you can't touch them, that's the bad side.
About flying them: in flight sims, you can use LOD (level of detail) copies of a plane model. The game loads a very low poly version of your model when seen from a distance, and a more detailed version when seen from close. It also uses a high-resolution version of the cockpit for the plane you're flying, and a low-res version for the surrounding ones. This greatly helps saving resources. Also, textures are in compressed file formats like .dds which manages to handle a lot of information like color, bump, transparency, shininess etc.
I agree, maybe the most painful time you have when working on a model for video games, is the rigging. You need to set all axles at the correct place for every moving part to move properly, but also to individually set the X,Y and Z axis for every part. For instance, the Z axis must be inverted on ailerons if you want them to move 'one up and one down' when pushing the stick sideways.
I made only a few planes for flight sims, then I built cars for race sims. It's always been a great feeling to virtually 'take the wheel' of the cars I modelled.
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Hi Kiwiness. Thanks for the answer to my question. You were wondering about
the "rope" on the undercarriage. It was a bungee cord, I think rubber wrapped
in cloth or canvas...not too sure about the wrapping. Anyway, it was used as a
shock absorber and pretty well all WWI aeroplanes used on the axles in some way
or another, SPAD included. Hope that helps a little.
Cheers,
Ernie :)
Hey Ernie
Thanks for that info, I was wondering what use that bungee cord had. Learning a lot here! I have to figure out how to model it now.
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Very nice, clean and precise work on the landing gear. I never felt comfortable with NURBS neither. Tools are not as user-friendly as for polygon modelling, and objects quickly get pretty heavy in terms of PC resources.
I never need to wash my hands of paint afterwards.
...and paints never dry up in the cans, and you never get short of any color as well...3D models don't break in a thousand pieces if you drop them, etc etc. And more-over, you can have them fly, burn or explode! And you even can fly them! ...but you can't touch them, that's the bad side.
About flying them: in flight sims, you can use LOD (level of detail) copies of a plane model. The game loads a very low poly version of your model when seen from a distance, and a more detailed version when seen from close. It also uses a high-resolution version of the cockpit for the plane you're flying, and a low-res version for the surrounding ones. This greatly helps saving resources. Also, textures are in compressed file formats like .dds which manages to handle a lot of information like color, bump, transparency, shininess etc.
I agree, maybe the most painful time you have when working on a model for video games, is the rigging. You need to set all axles at the correct place for every moving part to move properly, but also to individually set the X,Y and Z axis for every part. For instance, the Z axis must be inverted on ailerons if you want them to move 'one up and one down' when pushing the stick sideways.
I made only a few planes for flight sims, then I built cars for race sims. It's always been a great feeling to virtually 'take the wheel' of the cars I modelled.
Hey Vince, it seems you have excellent knowledge of the 3D world. I am glad I am not into 3D rigging and animation, it never really did interest me so much. And from what I have heard it is only a foundation for many headaches. It is all only a hobby for me so I'll stay away from the headache sector for now :) I love the modeling and texturing/painting as much as seeing the final product. As they say "getting there is half the fun". Are you still doing anything in the 3D world these days?
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I have been terribly busy at work the last week and haven't had a chance to continue on my project. But last night I managed to get a bit more done, I will try to post my progress this evening or tomorrow morning. I am stuck on the propeller at the moment. It is not as easy to model as I had imagined. I will have to try a different method.
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You are quite right: setting up a 3D model for animation or for video game import is a pain. But when you realize that you'll be able to fly or drive your own model, it really becomes addictive. I worked for a while in a small video game company, we were building race cars for video games (rFactor) and for VIP simulators that are used on race tracks. In my opinion, the drawback is that every model you build becomes obsolete after 2 or 3 years, which means you have to constantly redo what you've already done. It's even more painstaking, to say the truth. Anyway, the company failed after 3 or 4 years and we didn't earn much meanwhile. Then I became a "simple gamer", being part of a combat flight sim squad for a few years. Only thing I did during this period was painting skins for my personal mounts...
Sometimes I'd love to re-install the games I used to work on, just to have fun driving "my" cars, but I'm glad I came back to building models. I sometimes have fun animating 3D characters in 3dsmax, but that's all.