forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: lcarroll on May 11, 2012, 01:21:23 AM
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Friends,
I commited to providing a "How To" thread on this topic last week. I started yesterday, spent over an hour composing the bulk of the article and then lost it all when the "Web Page Expired" monster struck. Thus I'll try again however will submit it in smaller parts; let's see how that works!?
GENERAL:
I started using this technique 10 or more years ago to add realism to my projects, my hand painted versions didn't measure up and I was not aware of the Art Pencil or oil wood graining techniques others have perfected. The examples I've seen here are stunning to say the least, particularly the pencilled versions and that technique is one I intend to experiment with in future.
I've used hand carved propellers in both 1:48 and 1:32 Scales, I believe 1:72 Scale would work as well as long as the thickness of the layers is adjusted to fit the Scale Effect.
The technique I use is mostly sanding vs. carving; I keep carving to a minimum as the object is small and easily ruined by an inadvertant deep cut or split.
TOOLS:
An oscillating drum sander works well for the initial work followed by miniature sanding drums and shaper bits in a Dremel type of hand tool. The Dremel will work fine if you don't have or don't want to invest in a small drum sander. You'll need a small vice however "C" Clamps and a couple of bits of scrap wood to distribute pressure over your laminated piece for one of the two stock options will work fine. A drill (or drill bit in your Dremel), sanding sticks and papers, basic hobby knife with #11 blades, small saw for intial rough cutting, and small files are all the additional tools you will need. Most if not all are part of the average modellers' tool kit.
My drum sander is very basic; I use a wood block to provide a non-slip working surface and eliminate the danger of getting the stock or a finger (!?!) into the drum opening in the sander table.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_06791.jpg)
Close up of the wood base clamped to the sander:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1494.jpg)
I have both the standard electrical and mini battery powered Dremels. The cordless model is used constantly in my builds, it's a very versitile tool and a great time saver when carefully used.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1515.jpg)
Some of the Dremel accesories I use:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1517.jpg)
The basic hand tools "staged" while making a prop for my Roden DR1.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_06781.jpg)
Next to follow Material options and methods and the first steps in the process.
Cheers,
Lance
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Lance,
Excellent my old friend. I'll be on pins and needles until the next installment arrives. I noticed the package of wood sheets in the last photo,where do you get you supply?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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It worked! So here's a Part 2........................
MATERIALS:
I use two types of raw materials in building my props, mini-plywood and wood veneers.
The plywood stock I use is available in most Hobby Shops and is used by the Flying Model builders for engine and control mounts etc. My sheets are made by a company called Midwest, come in birch or poplar, and are in 8X12 Inch sheets and 1/8 inch in thickness. I have 3,4,5, and 6 layered sheets. Prices ranged from $3 to $6 per sheet (5-6 years ago) If I need more thickness I glue (Laminate) two thicknesses together and sand the rough stock to the dimension I want.
The second material option (now my preference) is to make my own laminated stock using assorted wood veneers.
I found a veneer sample pack at Lee Valley Tools for approximately $30 and it has enough stock for 40-50 props in my estimation.
First, the plywood version, rough cut stock "Blanks" as I call them. The only potential downside of the ply version is that some sheets have a very pronounced grain in the reversed alternate layers which when stained looks a little "off". Note the different number of laminations; you need to check your references carefully to match the number of layers or laminations.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1497.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1491.jpg)
Below is the Veneer sample pack followed by a 5 layer Blank of Light/dark veneers:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1487.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1492.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1493.jpg)
For the veneer option I use woodworking white glue, (Cabinet Workers quality preferred) to glue together the layers.
Once your prop is shaped and sanded you'll need some basic wood stain, I use oil based in the middle color ranges (Oak, Maple, or "Colonial") and then darken as required at the end with Tamiya Clear Yellow or Orange. The stain can be bought in the smallest size and will provide enough for a lifetime. Last, I apply a coat or three of clear urethene or clear model enamel sanding between coats until a smooth finish results, then the clear Tamiya product.
That concludes the material considerations, next the build process.
As an aside, don't be deterred by what appears to be a long complicated process. It's dead easy and not counting drying time for the finish I have completed a prop in approximately one and one-half hours. As the saying goes, "it ain't rocket science"!
Cheers,
Lance
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Lance ,
Thank you very much for this tutorial my friend. I'm thinking it's time for another LHS run today in search of plywood and veneer. They'll be wondering just what the Mad Modeler is up to now.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Greg (et al)
To answer your question the Veneer Pack I have was from Lee Valley Tools as just mentioned in Part 2. To elaborate a bit they are a North American Vendor and purchases can be made on-line. Just Google or search Lee Valley Tools. You don't want the heat activated "iron on" veneeers used commonly by woodworkers, raw veneer is what you need. I suspect any woodworking tool and supply specialty store would have similar products. There are a few samples included that are unsuitable (can't say I've ever seen bright green laminations on a prop!) however 90% of your purchase is suitable.
If there are any questions out there don't hesitate to ask; I'm no expert at this but have done enough things wrong in the learning process to at least provide an informed opinion!
Cheers,
Lance
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Lance,
Thanks for the tutorial.
I look forward to seeing more updates.
Cheers,
Bob
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Thanks for the tutorial Lance, it looks most interesting, I just wish that I was better at this type of detailing.
Cheers
Pete.
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Thanks very much Lance for taking the time. Much appreciated.
Paddy
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I'll add a short Part 3 today; initial carving/sanding.
Now that you have your Blanks ready it's time for step 1 in the shaping process.the rough shaping of your prop. The first step is to outline your props one dimensional front profile on the Blank(s) using the kit prop as a guide/template. Start by marking the exact center of the blank (which you have cleverly cut slightly larger then what you need). Drill out the center hole being careful to use a drill no larger then the prop shaft. You then center the prop on that centered hole and pencil the shape on. I find that doing one blade, then the other with constant checks on alignment works; you just need to keep checking to ensure the prop/template continues in alignment with the already outlined shape. Also outline the prop boss mounting area (Flat portion) which helps immensely when you start the dimensional shaping. As mentioned before I do at least three. To date I've not had to use the spares however they can be kept for future use, even for different prop types, by simply erasing or sanding off the outline.
Here's four Blanks with the outlines in pencil completed. These were for an Axial prop for the Albatross DIII in 1:32 Scale. You'll notice that the center circles are a little rough however in this case that portion is covered by the spinner so no problems.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_03971.jpg)
Now the fun begins. Use your drum sander to shape to the outline or a Dremel with sanding drum if that's all you have. I start with the drum sander and then do the last finer bit with the Dremel. If you trust your carving skills do the course shaping that way followed by fine work with the Dremel and/or sandpaper and round file.
Here's the stages from Blank to one profile done, the kit prop included, followed by the side view of the result.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_06681.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_06771.jpg)
And now your half done. Next the shaping of the other dimension to get to the rough finish stage. It will be a day or so, I don't have any stashed photos for this part so I'll make a Neindorf Prop for my DV in progress and photograph as I go along through this next stage. This is a curved prop so it's a first for me as well.
Cheers,
Lance
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Thanks for the step by step!!
Steve
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very interesting stuff!
makes me want to give it a try... or it is you that make it seems so easy??? ;)
can't wait to sww the carving...
ciao
Edo
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Time for Part 4, the shaping of the remaining two dimensions of your prop. Keep your kit prop (If that's your reference as opposed to drawings) real close, and as you step along through the next several steps compare the kit prop to your wooden one often. Believe it or not I once "trashed" one by applying the pitch on one face, reversing it, and sanding off the pitch on the wrong edge; makes for a far too narrow airscrew and really gets your nerves quivering.
So you've got your Blanks prepared with the single (front) dimension applied and shaped. To aid in illustrating my technique I'm going to make a Neindorf Prop for my WNW Albatross DV presently in progress; here are the three Blanks I prepared and shaped the single dimension on. Rough shaping as mentioned before done with the Oscillating drum sander. It could be done with a Dremel with sanding drum as well.
Note that the outline leaves margin for error all round. It can be reduced to the final dimension(s) in the final stages with hand sanding.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1520.jpg)
I've prepared three different laminations, a five with three light layers sandwiched between two very dark layers, an eight laminations plywood one, and a five layer plywood example.
Last, note the pencilled shading on the faces; these are the areas to be sanded off to produce the face side pitch dimension.
On this prop I'll attempt to do that part with the Dremel and "hand held" as opposed to using the big Oscillating Sander.
Before we start "ripping and tearing" it's important to note (and include) the side profile dimension. The following photo says it all, and that shaping should be done first. Again, I prefer the Dremel with a small Medium Grit sanding drum followed by touch up with hand sanding . Be careful to stop short of your final desired shape as hand sanding will ensure (more or less!) that you don't over do it and have to start over again. The secret is slow passes with light pressure followed by "sweeping" passes down the work face to smooth out your "cuts".
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1522.jpg)
Once you've matched the side profile start removing the stock on the first pitch face. Go slow, use light pressure, and I use the Dremel's lowest speed setting. Pay particular attention to the portion at the hub: that's where the shape is most abrubt and also where a mistake or assymetric shape will stand out the most. In this case we have a spinner covering the area which makes the task easier however ENSURE the fit of the spinner (in the final stages) to your prop before calling it "done". Keep going back to the kit prop or your drawings and include the spinner mounting plate in your calculations on spinner fitment.
Here's a few shots taken as the "carving with a sander" progresses. I missed taking a shot of the first step, sanding down the side profile. You'll note that the lamination "lines" are crooked and wavy due to the rough finish at this stage. Once the surface is smoothed out they'll be straight.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1523.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1524.jpg)
Note in the preceeding photos the "bite" I've taken out adjacent to the hub. That's where your circle outline really comes in handy. On configs without spinners this needs all of your attention as it really stands out if not proper and symetrical.
And now the reason we do several Blanks. My brilliant idea to use several layers of really light veneer with two outsides of very dark proved a disaster with the first couple of passes of the Dremel. I did the pitch cut first on this one as I was pretty sure it would "bomb", and it did! This one's for the kindling box for next winter. Light - dark - light etc. works much better.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1527.jpg)
At this point I move from the Garage/Shop back to the Model Desk for hand sanding. This step is best done by hand sanding, at this point I use 150 Grit and get the props almost reduced to final shape and dimensions paying particular attension to smoothing out the "hills and valleys " on the flat surfaces. So here they are at the end of the second to last construction phase. Note the laminated effect and appropriate shapes and lines of the "Lams".
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1528.jpg)
So now we have two props in the rough finished stage; next installment the final finishing touches before staining, sealing, and varnishing. Were almost there!
Cheers,
Lance :)
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Thanks very much Lance for posting this step by step tutorial, it is going to be so beneficial for anyone wanting to make their own wooden propellers, I'm sure we will be seeing a lot more authentic looking wooden propellers on models in the near future. I have set the topic as sticky so it will remain at the top and will be readily available to the members for a quick reference.
Des.
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An excellent insight to a dark art.. TY for sharing your knowledge Lance.
Keith
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You make it look easy. I might give it a try..though I make things difficult.....
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You make it look easy. I might give it a try..though I make things difficult.....
Pepperman,
If anyone can make things difficult the champion is sitting in my chair as I type this. (I could provide examples but would be embarrassed to disclose most!)The first few will not be perfect however it's a quickly learned technique. Give it a shot.........
Cheers,
Lance
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A very short and sweet Part 5. I had hoped to have the two 'candidates" at least stained but thought I'd get this thread caught up to the actual progress on the props.
Both props were given a long dose of hand sanding with progressively smoother grit sand paper after final carving / shaping with a very sharp #11 Blade used very sparingly.
Although I really like the laminations in the following one the shape appears slightly "out" to my eye. I took a bit too much off the latter half (towards the tip) and believe it is too narrow to match the correct profile.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1530.jpg)
This one has a great lamination pattern and closely matches the Neindorf front profile thus it will probably be the one chosen.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1534.jpg)
This last photo will illustrate the narrower blade dimension of the second choice however it doesn't show this graphically on the spinner shot prior.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1535.jpg)
Both props will be stained, sealed with several coats of clear varnish with sanding between coats and finally darkened with, in this instance, Tamiya Clear Orange, and then one will be chosen. Photos of this to follow in the last/Part 6.
Cheers,
Lance
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Outstanding Lance, great tutorial. Thankyou very much ;)
Also, this may help others as well, in relation to the web page has expired bogey you mentioned: on another forum I'm on, when the page 'expires' and you have apparently lost your reply, etc, log back in then immediately use the back button of the web browser to get back to the post/reply you were constructing then hit 'Post'.....your post should then be posted!! You can then modify it and what not - should work on this forum.
Alternatively, when you login, you can login for keeps, etc. Hope this may be of help??
Andrew
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Not only a great tutorial but an inspiration to jump in and give it a go. Really very nice work Lance, top drawer. :)
Thanks again,
Paddy
P.S. One of today's projects is to make space on the workbench to be ready to make the attempt. ;D
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Andrew, Paddy,
Thank you both for the kind words. I've enjoyed the experience and am glad to be able to contribute. Perhaps re-payment for all the great info I've gleaned from others since becoming active in the hobby once again about three years back. I learned the basics of pre-shading, "hairspray chipping", wood graining, and great new rigging techniques to name only a few from other members. It's all about sharing and this site, along with the other I "haunt' in the Early Aviation Section, is a fine example of a bunch of folks who share info, encouragement, and mutual enjoyment of a great hobby to everyone's benefit. Thanks to Des for getting us up and running.
I'll finish this off with some staining and final finishing touches shortly.
Cheers,
Lance
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Your choice number one is perfect but I do like the lamination pattern of option two. They both, however, are excellent examples of the process. Thanx again!!!
Steve
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Not only a great tutorial but an inspiration to jump in and give it a go. Really very nice work Lance, top drawer. :)
Thanks again,
Paddy
P.S. One of today's projects is to make space on the workbench to be ready to make the attempt. ;D
Paddy,
Good on you, give it a shot and don't give up if the first few are less then ideal..."practice makes better" Let us know how it works out and if you have questions just ask.................... 8)
Cheers,
Lance
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Thanks Lance.
Got the bench setup and even located my stash of plywood from my RC days. That's got to be some old wood well aged. :o ;)
Paddy :)
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So here's Part 6, it'll be short and followed by the final Part 7 shortly.(Had it all but done last night and "Bing" it disappeared!) I believe I've got a problem with my computer as I had lots of "login" time remaining. Thus I'll stick to shorter posts to hopefully avoid the problem.
At the end of Part 5 the props were sanded and ready to stain. I used Minwax "Provincial" colour which is a rich medium golden brown.
Here are the results, first two views of number one and a single of the other:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1543.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1545.jpg)
And the spare/second choice:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1546.jpg)
They are very pale at this stage however note how nicely they darkened up with a few coats of varnish (Minwax Polyurethane Clear gloss) This also got rid of the reddish tones. I leave them to dry overnight for the stain and succesive coats of urethane.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1549.jpg)
Last step required is a light touch up with very fine emery paper and a final very light coat of urethane. Final Part 7 on the way..........
Cheers,
Lance
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Part 7 and "wrap up".
The final sanding was done with a Flexigrit Model Sand sheets. I used #300 and #400, the really fine Red and beige sheets respectively. It's an excellent product, I'm not sure if it's still available though. This was followed by a thinned coat of urethane and once dried overnight they were done.
Two views of each, first my first choice:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1554.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1555.jpg)
And the spare/#2 choice:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1557.jpg)
All that remains is to trim the back "hub" portion that will be inside the spinner to allow for the spinner mounting plate. I'm leaving that until it's ready to mount on the shaft once the engine is installed on the WNW DV it's destined for. I said ealier that it's a one and one-half hour job; closer to 2 hours is more accurate. In closing I decided to not overcoat with Tamiya Clear Orange or Yellow as the results on these were dark enough. The DV is in a mostly black finish so I wanted a bit of contrast.
I believe this technique will suit any scale, the secret is to thin the layers of veneer for the smaller scales.
Here's a few shots of my very first on a 1;48 (close to but slightly oversized) Monogram/Revell Fokker DVII built over 10 years ago. The hub is definitely oversized, not my best effort for sure.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1514.jpg)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_02871-1.jpg)
I have not attempted a 4 blade prop as yet however it would be just a matter of careful joining of two standard two blade props (he said in a bout of overconfidence!)
In conclusion, a relatively simple technique which gives good results. I must repeat from earlier that some of the "pencilled" varieties I've seen here recently look a lot better to me, the choice should be driven by what you can produce for sure. I really enjoyed doing this thread; small payback for the invaluable advice and tutellage I've recieved on-line from many of you. (Hey Kornbeef, that's a compliment from one old AMS devotee to another!)
Hope you give it a try, and if I've missed anything just post a question.
Cheers,
Lance :)
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Lance,
Just wanted to thank you again for this excellent tutoial my friend. I'm planning on putting this thread to use making a prop for OKGB Nieuport 28 c-1. The veneer is supplied as part of the kit so I figure why not,if it goes south there's alway the supplied resin prop as backup.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Wow!!1 Like you say. They start out pretty red but then the clear gloss brings it to the right colour. Thanks for the great tutorial. Off to Home depot!!!!
Steve
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Well done Lance! The tutorial and finished prop are top drawer. Thank you sir.
Paddy
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Hi Lance,
Excellent tutorial my friend, I don't know whether you've tried it, but many, many, many moons ago I tried my hand at flying scale models and for the static display you had to show a scale prop on the plane and the way they showed you how to make one, now these were different, they were made from Balsa wood, but you cut strips of Balsa, just as you do the laminations, then you put a hole through the dead centre of the strips, you glued the strips with PVA glue, then put a small nut, bolt and washers through the hole and gently tightened them up, finally you slightly fanned out the strips of Balsa and this gave you the natural wash of the prop, when the glue was dry you then finished sanding the prop to shape, I was wondering whether the same method would work with the laminations?
Cheers
Pete.
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Hi Lance,
Excellent tutorial my friend, I don't know whether you've tried it, but many, many, many moons ago I tried my hand at flying scale models and for the static display you had to show a scale prop on the plane and the way they showed you how to make one, now these were different, they were made from Balsa wood, but you cut strips of Balsa, just as you do the laminations, then you put a hole through the dead centre of the strips, you glued the strips with PVA glue, then put a small nut, bolt and washers through the hole and gently tightened them up, finally you slightly fanned out the strips of Balsa and this gave you the natural wash of the prop, when the glue was dry you then finished sanding the prop to shape, I was wondering whether the same method would work with the laminations?
Cheers
Pete.
Pete,
I don't see why it wouldn't work, especially if the strips of balsa were alternately light and dark stained. Balsa being so soft it would be much easier and faster to shape, I'm not sure about the "open" grain however.
Flying Scale, now those were the days! (and a long, long way back for me as well). I never competed but recall seeing photos of the models with their "posed" scale props In "Model Airplane News" and another called, I think, "Flying Models". All my efforts were in "Control Line" as basic (in those days) RC equipment was well beyond my reach. I always maintained an active plastic scale hobby however this diversion into flying models went on for years until I went off into the Airforce at the tender age of 18. I'm afraid all my projects died on the field of honour; the last a huge (Span of at least 36 inches) F4U "Birdcage" Corsair crashed spectacularly on it's maiden flight due to a failed control mount. At that point I became a firm fan of Plastic Scale and Airfix et al had their stock increase in value!
Thanks for bringing back the memories.
Cheers,
Lance :)
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Hi Lance'
I wasn't thinking about Balsa wood for the prop I was thinking along the lines of possibly light and dark marquetry veneer.
Cheers
Pete.
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Hey Pete,
Take a look back at the first or second part of this article; I do use veneers to make my own "stock' however on this particular build the veneer one failed miserably (my fault) and was eliminated right at the beginning. Matter of my choice of the order I arranged the different colored veneers.
Cheers,
Lance
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Lance,
Fantastic tutorial and one that really makes me think of doing one or two someday--nothing looks like wood like wood.
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Lyle,
Thanks for the positive comment. Try it, you'll like it! ..and feel free to ask if you have any questions.
Cheers,
Lance
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Just saw this, Lance. Brilliant! Looks like I owe you a beer or two, as well.
Cheers,
Bud
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Just saw this, Lance. Brilliant! Looks like I owe you a beer or two, as well.
Cheers,
Bud
Hey Bud, I think it's a pretty sweet deal all round! I'll update my WNW DVa Thread with photos once I apply your shading technique, assuming it goes well with my limited skills........??
Cheers,
Lance :-\
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Thats fantastic Lance. Gorgeous props. Not sure if I have the patience to try this my self but you never know. Thank you very much.
James
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Wow James, I'd forgotten about this article. Hope you enjoyed it and it proves of some use.
Cheers,
Lance
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Thank you Lance for taking the time back then to do such a helpful tutorial. Thanks also James for drawing it to my attention.
Lance, do you still use this technique today?
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Thank you Lance for taking the time back then to do such a helpful tutorial. Thanks also James for drawing it to my attention.
Lance, do you still use this technique today?
Snowy,
Certainly do! I find that most British props don't display the wood grain pattern quite as clearly as the German manufactured versions thus most are the Kit versions with a bit of woodgrain added and a good covering of clear orange and yellow. Here's my last two German subjects with hand laminated and carved wooden props made the same way as outlined in the Tutorial.
WNW Fokker D.VII(OAW) with Niendorf Prop:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/Models%20Two/IMG_3041.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/user/lcarroll1/media/Models%20Two/IMG_3041.jpg.html)
and WNW Pfalz DIIIa with Axial Prop:
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/SE%205a%20and%20Beyond/IMG_2734.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/user/lcarroll1/media/SE%205a%20and%20Beyond/IMG_2734.jpg.html)
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/SE%205a%20and%20Beyond/IMG_2706.jpg) (http://s1141.photobucket.com/user/lcarroll1/media/SE%205a%20and%20Beyond/IMG_2706.jpg.html)
I find the more I do the easier they get, like most things I guess.
Cheers,
Lance
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It's good to see this thread bumped forward again as I just spent a few minutes going through the tutorial again . . . but I still have cold feet when it comes to trying it myself! ;D
The props all look gorgeous Lance.
Cheers,
Chris
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Thank you very much Lance for posting those photos of the beautiful wooden props on your two beauties. Great work all round!
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Evening All,
As an inveterate scratch-builder I have been experimenting with carving props for God's Own Scale models from plastic for a long time, but I have also been carving from wood more recently and I thought that the results of some recent experiments might interest modellers who work in braille scale. Some of my results are not as good as I would like - I did say that I have been experimenting and am still in the process of refining the technique so please do not expect the standard of Lance's work.
In my first attempts to carve propellors from wood I used a tropical hardwood strip 18mm wide x 2mm thick (11/16inch x 60 thou inch) which I think is rahmin. (I am not sure because it was given to me by my late father over 30 years ago and I forgot to ask him what it was!). I can get three propellors from one length of strip - the propellors are carved along the grain. This wood is easy to work with and I can get the blades almost as thin as with plastic. When varnished the propellors look realistic enough for me at least. There is no trace of lamination of course, but these would represent propellors covered by thick tinted varnish.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4330/36294040825_4d4a863527_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XibrSz)
These are three pieces roughly cut from a single piece of strip. The shape of the propellor is drawn on each one, including the boss which I mark out with a pair of dividers.
This shows the blank, partially carved and complete propellor.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4306/36253134306_0b69cb4653_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XeyMML)
A batch of three completed props. These are still unvarnished.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/35899730940_d5fc84ee1f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WGkvhh)
An unvarnished example showing the centre boss: this particular propellor is now on my scratch-built Ago C II(W).
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4328/36161549351_e07f210be3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/X6toLP)
I have also used beech strip of the same dimensions as above but because of the grain in the beech I found that it is not really suitable, although it is a lovely wood to work with. This propellor was coated with clear orange varnish.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4299/36253141116_82098f1116_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XeyPPb)
The beech prop is on the left and a plastic kit prop on the right for comparison. I think that it is clear that the grain in the beech is unsuitable for a prop but it is lovely wood to carve!
I have recently tried using thin laminate available from Cornwall Model Boats. This is 3mm wide x 0.5mm thick but it is also available in 4mm widths which I think would be better because it allows the central hub to be properly carved which the 3mm strip does not. For my first attempt I used 5 pieces of Tanganyka and lime with 2 strips of lime sandwiched between three strips of the darker wood held with CA. This was a little too thick to be realistic so I then tried 4 strips, 2 light and 2 dark and lightly sanded each strip before glueing them together. It is very important to make sure that plenty of CA is used because when carving the laminates tend to part if not properly glued together. In the case of the 4 laminates the thickness of the resultant propellor was good. I varnished these props with clear orange which certainly toned down the lime but I still think that it is probably too light. I now intend to use two darker woods such as walnut and Tanganyka to see if I can get the laminate effect but one which is more realistic because the lighter bands will not be too light. One important point to note is that different woods are of different hardnesses and therefore respond to filing and sanding differently - it is important to experiment to find out exactly how the woods will behave when being worked.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4310/36161592551_0e155952ba_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/X6tBBD)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4320/36161593461_c8b83e4d9c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/X6tBTk)
The 5 laminate prop is on the left in the photos: the top photo shows that it is too deep. The 4 laminate prop had the wood lightly sanded before I glued it together. These props have been varnished with clear orange (three thinned coats).
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4298/36127024352_4925f9c406_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/X3qrGd)
These are the same as above with a rah min prop added on the left to enable comparison. The slightly wider rahmin prop allowed me to carve a better centre boss.
Please remember that these laminated propellors were made as a proof of concept - I may use the 4 laminate propellor on an upcoming project, but as indicated I am still experimenting and may yet come up with a better set of units.
Good luck to all who have a go at carving your own: as with all of these things it is easier than you may think. (At least it was so in my case!)
Stephen.
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Nicely done Stephen! I'm amazed at the results you've achieved in "Braille" Scale. I've done a few in 1:48 Scale and found them more difficult then in 1:32. I've pretty well eliminated the drum sander from the procedure of late; I now prefer to hand carve the entire sequence with a #11 blade until ready for sanding as on the SSW D.III recently. I'd more or less forgotten about this thread, I'm very pleased that you found it useful.
Cheers,
Lance
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Great! Thank you for this useful thread. I will definitely try that.
Manni
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Hi all,
first of all many thanks to Lance and Lone Modeller for the great tutorials in this thread.
Please let me add my two cent for small scales. As I only work in 1/144 which is too small for using wood, I carve my propellers from a sandwich of laminated red and white plastic:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/WP_20160525_002_zpsxpdomldk.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/WP_20160525_002_zpsxpdomldk.jpg.html)
The advantage of plastic is that it can be sanded to 0,1 mm thickness and can be welded together with Extra Thin or similar glue.
And this is what the result looks like with woodgrain made by applying a thin coat or red ochre oil paint:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/IMG_0882_zpsuhonojv6.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/IMG_0882_zpsuhonojv6.jpg.html)
Cheers
Ondra
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Thanks for adding to this Ondra, we've now got the entire spectrum of scales pretty well covered! I never cease to be amazed at what you do in such a small scale!
Cheers,
Lance
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Thanks for adding to this Ondra, we've now got the entire spectrum of scales pretty well covered! I never cease to be amazed at what you do in such a small scale!
Cheers,
Lance
I absolutely agree.
Borsos
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I thought making props in 1/72 scale was about the limit - Ondra you have demonstrated just what can be done. Thanks for your contribution - and that is a beautiful prop both in shape and colour.
Stephen.
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Hi Warren,
I can share some of my red plastic stock with you. It will not be a lot but should be enough material for about 10 propellers in 1/72. PM me if you are interested.
Btw. I have not succeeded either to find a proper source of thin red plastic, therefore the basic material is 1mm thick red styrene (from a warning shield "no trespassing" from local hobby store).
I made a simple jig allowing me to sand the material down to 0,1 mm thickness - two strips of 0,1 mm brass glued alongside each other in 5 mm distance on a plastic sheet. Then I cut a strip of red plastic 5 mm wide, glue it in between the two brass strips with CA (only two small drops of CA just to keep the part in place) and then sand it down with a flat file.
Is actually faster than it might look. :)
Cheers
Ondra
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Long time nothing written here, but I like to give some comments.
I tried plywood too but do not get good results for a simple reason:
One layer is lengthwise, but the other has the wood grain across!
On wooden airscrews all the grain is in the lengthwise direction, but it do not make no sense, to produce such plywood.
=> so we have to make our own.
The second problem is the wood grain. We need in this scale very fine or better no grain, water channels and so on. So only some wood kinds are really usable. I still experimenting, but the best seems to be pear, boxwood and in general fruit threes, like cherry. Here I had some discussions with model ship builders, which helped a lot.
Some examples:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ODnitpUe7a3nkFhT-OiPJUKOXxw9iC0UfeoWYs7StTYsBgFHSesBm6CgkjKhiVgxWQhYLT_j8IoC1P-V_GIecllp5awPd2UF2BCAF6pDapxX_lUa7PJ810-mvNyh_sYWjbK0RYFeSW80goMPf7GHkIe5XtbBgsx-8Uhoyp-KYIHeFzKUGcRRABZDHE8-RUCKjdX4X7z3_QMSSqc_7_rvdnRssUdo9k9HnnMKh8ButY0eYNa83auQQGhgl0BH-Wt3g0r5WnrvYZSAALEwNQB-V6glZ4m4pWma6alw3jvWL7Ml_1HcTMCdDiFqBY6yVr-Cau64mHMdR1bcJl8YOsvrZ9WNtG8ObRpsVKhAPjc9T1PkmP91giPnT431jYKXFi2LmsUOAedrVafW1xmYZn9Dafn7RMaYpCo6_AxZb_Pc3smK9NAdKeUKY8UdXDmsB08FLIhudSxTH7DpeIiTd9wvkDwpEALuuercsBN_YXnrNwr7eeFH_IGoOvwtklcl6Exlt7dR7Jx6Dxnu7mYdx1IPmtCt8bYU9wfkHG1Ok4yMFcWA8ZZsVb3KY5_oGeZqkCNf0vpSZs6yT2AjHpCKG5luUOeNJgKyut-oPnL6-Sn-ZRuFxgZQXxaO=w800-h385-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qkIFD_enLWE7BgTCRP3U9D1wriRUgPVUWifKKesyFVuuaxBpaVDbR0Nd5biKcuSr8pONHei24-r1cYTDnb9SxevisU76bslRV7JQ1iEk24BX1NpMxYVGWjTiFsPa7nGHSFpZiuZ_PHFG87cpimlDWNcOO5EEzMAbrCNMApWFBPlMrub6PK0xqhqDfSl-yA718W-Bip2OUxbESviT6FtTegt_A4w7-nXpTbgEOJcpCuOX4al03k0O5n9g3xO1cHDpxhPFXtr54U6liPGT3RFC_2CvSp-Xf6l8qcWh1LHljUIcQsoZPogY91nvrkSZZFlQ9xFUAoHAt4HpEdxYk6uq9alcnxlBRsJMlMm8SEKmxGbFkVWLV6o4Ci15mBrFTIPsPz4fLEReRYo-eDtRsBZQ5CHvHIU0HVut-CmAZ-yZB1h37hmcP07T7kDKlOsPZ1WeFzGGwprmRZKNutiK7pJM3JGQwAwUPd2Az4HJqC5rm5RieNlRgyGYl33NPTn1IyGbaRCpn3TFlgui8pn9AC6xd84fTrokOaYLCtX12wlJubEB1eofHbrjRmbvHNA5pi6YWVI_ptoERVFgDFnNLTmAp1qX3ZsPV93krbb83uxCFraJ1f5HXJ33=w800-h640-no)
Pear and Boxwood for a AXIAL:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Zg4qlrYykBgdl17ENte6eOrVd1gzVOgyCd4MmNQ4mOKs0eQk6YiwRnbGkxcDkEbWbwjDlyaRSGlSDdmshsDehPJrUC1EGdcgEM2xRSJdOp-aVKglXy82ZHCKE0bmtywexuSsRmXVWse3zkGbjFCeMbpdbPwYlAk2S7JiVv55CrqYG2h5TDyTdM2G9QmZ8YI_S2bFDb8SmudUoITTYMr5ATopecsAazyH5UGTnk2huzeArCgy0Z_0l7Xv5m1XpiFujQaHYAW_E1Ne-9DLio-BZUDxeXvQ7GOxuweOpJ-20p83_5sgEyIG_aj7muWDoBBtvrUhpC_7rACbZPSzi3-tSJvzL83qFyZINAwh6fHLvxPY07a0hY8S6qQpzYkVouNd0-iLJTMlNyAd9yNYh74NIqWGsDBq3ItOVTiEzLZh2_vcnRWoh1MIpubHrgrbE-_lkyof_Syt4Ijv4bOou6yr8-7yUkipcE_PKBq4Y_M6se9C1P9aoEiWNXb_MwdVGabbuK4rW3_45PzUGjYUkQSljZr-Aydyz5nZZwxX0aDdEYUkymu8INkcBQgOA7wc2P8cW5E-KAoFoCYrsC0D9o-qZQ_nuwsKx-bp9AfMKbtU1-cYJBJ_180J=w800-h682-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5wPHKosW3HWMNaoZ8SJZDJd6BW1O3jzC0V6heOA3cS27ZX7RASo8bn6lI4_4OoPW4zkeb3EFK7ATdf_rGpVIQU5aiTNuZaSriKK07hyi1ZBSIl6EazlVZU5MfHr0gVl4jXN9mviiK09ERaFeJfued7Zq9IYiM_InyXtMwF0rMoJOONDmyEpImkBX1eIA_rMVpTm9IIZF6xxalahteQWR1QcgS9_E4YIvSMGxEM-oza500KxXyXXEzOYl0Y7Nd8v0Z0r6z6WVFQFctKSZbRw9e8P06TAZuY3ue59wl-Ta0HTMtNnfAM_kX6JE5OoiJYOyEDcQLQ4gpM0TKv_u6co6SOomh2ZqSU4sPbgD9DnGGyl0ovE4SeDJgIfU8b9nD_39xPRiiY0eGymdSGXm8pzE2xVSiGMZUJSjQ-MC7ay14afIGd0nuEuJbwcgbGAEJ9dKblNmxkLKdBcx6Icsq0qibJkWWgzGcDkPmvofXFuaNbf3BTaK3DtH0sZFTgqlHQaZT89h5bctqTZS-zeTUKRqWrDYpdxDU89D8-Bp1dyAl2bO0CNIg-Y8fUTM6VZ_HbATPGG1zfctpjFlpROe1wUvHc2GABohTvWVR7UVxdwfCJa2i35gZG3m=w800-h588-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1GUZnDb5Ql7LcqpMMqleaR-vEUKdsc23VfQGRp55XBIO_aoabosqGBsrWejn00IYKaYhPU-RA6lj3nIs4KBeHWQrIHjnb3PYisdn7JEaWTlr1L-t1Z2wrhi41RfVJ0mk3GNIp0pM4sqjfp6B6j-pAHTq5Q754yaFg54E-eesV-i5shok13oi4x_DC6qhYzUiu3cHohrJI9mZ2qaMtC63RhjAcDXCaPHIsqBYreV3tLbig8O_2sBh1kUJPuXYeF3notXBJJ6QjUrSXSOgu7YF7WnuYPunjSNaXfPr8LyJpPtNHJ40zWsWK_P42RzmSieJhPVgWK93xxRyzzggglKVTi7fuNXiLA59SNiWIfPWlu328AvugnziIUoqlUftl4L0XJ7og4ahHaBFfwMvNC_6onPoUeI8sYR5kXUM4hYF0wrrtFX0YDg3hc0p4YboIbZXOWK9kfKYp2cxo1xKRzK4Cl7SxNJjDe4d53gQzpwcJi0GO_8mDgbQ0JOZ-azIGXQA6fquehUKQvY5D5rKLmBd7wgE_uKJfzju2y9UF59O-Xgke3vFVIX8kI5vAPb6Ast4qexw7UjvArYDBtn9_1vvMlU7uRFb-ThAt1jb4oIxFwh6xnYrL4o-=w800-h417-no)
Here I tried Canadian maple and sycamore, with acrylic brown in the wood glue. It shows more grain.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CdujGFfUTZD6RGnZ73_nsWd9hZT-mLijx5LwaEAlbusoYNIUhjyDK7OaOAfQuZWuVEF6xMvKnSD6UIxn4E3gFAaHPX_l4wiuxaiRjpKFA3TQ03hmqb3zP9f7jl0dwZg1LZdERpD8NkqNoF94qx4naUq0XYkDX1zzs3vajfo-TaxumCtAsspxNEWYRwdkq9LnaFgV_knz71DLRC8C7WEGHW-g05r0TdT6uH4TcqDqfRaTC1bJNojtAw-8i6h9_oStMO9j1fFLRogEVQBjA8y5BdwGnkXu_c-AuMl2zpj5MnEQkPmkqykX4I9E1SZK_p3O_eRj8cR2X5n4aoAIv1VqtuuAdXlYNwat4sXNh0m6DdYvQEe9_PajDoWoB_Mt73ivuT7BPCgs5uErBofu3E3LiTyNPf7NoYNCaEPBJZngisOdXVKJCBs-Po1sfT-g0R6pav1HZsodawl0TDSSDOcD2SE_9USIWRuRz2TzK-hpmReKqjSZvtwhPsT6NS6hZBStR1_YW4IgB26wVYscsBi1GuWSR_jENydxKu1LNcjwAsNrrKBJTrYseWqOs547vfMPGL7c_PU2003fM2SxO_tFMV1YH3auLAu0Umy4cl5W6rBUW6l6SEetUh6xtB08gro_S0BKhCQelw=w800-h305-no)
And even a four blade is possible, here for my D.H.2 Stripdown with two different pear veneers:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NKdqbh5mAz3uOtAts-BLy5KXlcSWbv2NwFpiz804revKyjTnjiYyr1MWKHW6nO_vYNUwg7wiSiiDNDlTl8mAVay1Uy1dBnqaXRq2Tv_gsZV-Ty8pCLFX2QoTo9KCJ0KmKwmGeYgNTBfxe4y16xjtL4PBLbtbbKOsABpTxdC3joK6PBNv2PoZnA1LmumSzmVCNfYis-69FHD07p28XGBdRccwIsWc7UPqwn1mNRQrvwKCL1AUiLXyirdXaOTdRV8cEEzsYxrMjLFCEheLUKVmZ3lJga-BlV3CDM0QcIIts-7YoDK0Fvf19COIdK4AU5tBKMaCph8ulfjtelqjkoK-Q5fMEs462WmIti0FV0_oRVhmD99ZGPyf85qsZZXoClhT4hznD8TSO-VtiJBUrb_2v7_x81Ftd323IiJIbz35xGefL_4UaiwVNfkzskSTIoELUpkoAe7lRiZStwBOQZfTQBYLrA0xlzjx5oZWT0FQiZhpmpS9ytXCKDFAR8qcM24D_wclY_oEKS05hrE1-l62gpJf1puW68rBfqej1mZCVCMZxGkNXyEdcJmT582x0xPKGzYRwO-hfyP_STw0TXqEXB5Ff6xHRhb4Eixb25pCBLsx4JnIi7vl=w800-h333-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jM_7nKch50litvc-2yxNHerzfPeZyoI9OwW6qYso0Mw3zpJhikTmhok_ws8PjhYpRQv9xONznhI770rlpEcNRBkqC2sww8Y1tSMehhbSnJTwxuc4fyf84Hj_wh06iXSu4JMO6UPZijJmO9fHpn61Vmoftg0dP2k8if3ZGcmhtU4Ce4v6uQTYgSR6mvXBPB5ySNo0fTpym4_Z0wpLVN7-sxUV7gC4KCOR8DrEkU0mm-eENTi4wMCq7WoZDb-HOUq-nkoMsqJMmwyx6l59FmcFpfNYsoNo48KsqTpwSiv4Wk9CFC6oKIsv5Ig2mVFv2ZHgGj41bXxOvsvyTTmS0ydKgxXcr-92ualoefS1aZRVnbyNAHA3xtzIeTzNPB0SNs5aK4igic7exKcToi6cGI0y_YyOeedKIcftHRa3BCTUA3_tW2fuMMhRM2fD0xtIbqByH-6dX5d7dG57QctGaTpfyRsgfQFwS7Xy7DXGmCbTYIG8kcZb3GrJSYB3dazKm3DYcpj0zQ1UHdmEJiSeQ0RwNs72qSSbYb6U451HRG8O_GQQL3C_sAoQPN13a31zvhxSeqFuj71PeBFnD4jdlP03oXJpx7Uc68h0qu0G9mRTfeOaon2TRPAH=w800-h641-no)
Raw shaping
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uS1stZgrYLWco2SqsikTKPRwZRr4KstFXgp8xuCihapIk_7UkVGPc6uhk9qITYspi8tWUCcr1FNk6SMK8eYynqyi3kDfAqSs99kKyd44XvJf5QP9_x6Bfr-_3aQ3-qBb0xK6fFonLvmzT1F8rNlUn7h2D1IIttoKKpI-IvqLVgPbR1iblfY3jiOPuXjCjwErRYcH3o2Ap1dbxX9e0MYr-1i_IUUiR2WiqbqBeO3_GvT-oXOn3prGq3EJJ4tw6kHiYpMDC9xtPbMCMgu9OjmA45g-6x9UijTiW9QY_mT1AmR5eOsHpaIXGrG3ncjvMqs8gVLEV36n5_bBlpchWISZsF9-mEggcLX3ejGdJ6DJSZ8bZ0Mj1owy_2HJXzP6CrmyDWePpFtNz4Mk72Yj_G00wHfLfv2Bz7NP66TrfCLdqEWJCN7Vi0mh2ZzTZ0S7ixS9W5o-Y0GEwdWACfhrXGzYRC0NnD4XiKedmOUWprghpoUj1EWGf2Gg2wBrsjVBDUTlIxTyPH2M83oWI4yvpouM0lB4Ad09gSUxeqHhKYUqoPtZY_oCZkPs0n5MYXBTcdgfCMTIbvWaM_v_F43e8rSVCHE6wdHik0MCsUKzls5In8GkmmyOSWOk=w800-h517-no)
And on the model:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cZUPJCnCI1WfC4kjeqESig9G6Csu06IqWa5riwxPX6o_6IixrnaLFYh3itOklI7-UzWCbqXOdEWAMB-P5Nhl95uW-jVZAm2F-72AXsxVCTmJWXdOysiUJtzuyYVsLtqtJ6ag91Gk7lN2Cao4HYz11mxWtwmHzjX1YBwOep0L806unMzKqw2CCL9byPDx_W2BJZTX59gcQlHBQKvleCt6c9fLL1sgqGpqzasQhdmS63S7n0JuOVKcVzGwARDSNb0Ccv3qNWOZHmQO9xKHO2Pi0t-pBNRLdIP2r0kH3VpC9Hei57wJU2_mZJk4NPyjEZBd-l8vroWmYTznCzvOXZ7gyuoLKrvrX6C9qClAaXd6q2KF59jllsgofMVDQCQTts74w7iHg7h6PzWJ3eVji_gki-rvtHrgYMEIGnkTC9J-qa0vpraoJcXrkAjK3sz0F4KlYYKrhDzRCSTprVoX0-0DGH6alyyYoR9u11JkYVsjnFlE6CBurst-AynWeKHhq2aFv6HVMfCUTom4idMb7DFNzTgjSyFJmBcTfAbrCwUlsUIrLLqtJ9Wk8tNsMYEuAcT4IyP3tq0_BT3frskt3q5zcfy2REmwv24jV4dZFT1itYOI3_NBwCAv=w1000-h697-no)
Here one of mine on a picture of the Windsock Airscrew Special, the sentence with the skill is really true ;)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GyjNkZdRnBaTDWclt-LEY3vpKfz55F120vvzvkyzjJABVLkX1LtesqHxHmKuEvc4vrU07NzI5tSbhxkzei87mezZRUBCoLCTeEk4v8uNgL_IUqZUiRcb_0xau5YtOtP_hTl3a_4XQeY-V4Hpc0vUa0OY7MChel6WyEWd2BECAb9cWby3ZvWqPwkDLlb_RTK-0N1J2yF9VllXYBVweTe1gWZ9gqZXwRSCcWjCBD6Rcrw6VGcG1nsOBCwwlxBtmQXkLCCPIGkuBVF5MIXBEK751UScXAokmbQh5dQ4rn3Yxctk0zNcKsW5lfFh08tCaJv3cgRZHcfHmtsTvhqVn6a2soBZt3h-i5n2vSfbCwd1T_CcyXRnf4c3idgtTF7-CgZNj_eqnIbutUsyVMXYw1pZEiR4m3iLGWLH1W-DwUwKaXtYwzVo-NJSvQpbdRBIoKr7Z3O32iQXbVDq5aTC6vj_2UzJIqb26xi7k1AJisSBEAv1dKuxOsBOECNNR2CO4617C0FcZDt6cUcSgfXh8jG_UGNjVKcY-SdKj6gMRn0Im_y6cr-neQ9DVw4_xVo55MlUCQ5AALngP5GSkjtvVHAzADQypJF_RXMm4shW31Mw9-QOPygSsMsY=w568-h800-no)
Hope it helps!
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank,
What you say about suitable wood stock is so very true! I have a large sample package of veneer strips I use for laminating my own stock and I find only 3 or 4 of the more then 20 types in the package are suitable, most grains are too "open". The plywood grain direction is a factor as well, I have some stock remaining of 1/8 and slightly thicker 4 and 5 ply stock that is all in parallel direction and it works well but I cant locate any more. It was sourced at a hobby shop about 20 years ago, made for parts of flying models.
I very much admire the props you've done here; having made my own since starting a 1/32 Scale collection I am too aware of the time and effort they take. Not hard to do, but slow work!
Thanks for adding to this thread.
Cheers,
Lance
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Thanks for the great tutorials on prop making, Lance. Your props look amazing! I have a question: for the 1/32 props, what thickness is the veneer and where do you get it? Is it something you have to cut and plane down yourself? Or are they purchased at the proper thickness?
Thanks for any help!
George
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George,
The product I use is from a company called Sauers & Company:
http://sveneers.com/
It's a package of 20 SQ Ft. of mixed variety veneers of 1/32 of an inch to roughly 1/16 of an inch thick. 12 inch lengths and 5.5 to 7.5 inches wide. About roughly 1/4 of the stock is suitable. I bought it from Lee Valley Tools 4-5 years ago for $28 Canadian. Here's the American stores link:
https://www.leevalley.com/
When I need more I'll try for small amounts of the species I really want, like the "Pear" and some darker close grained stuff that Frank has mentioned.
Let me know how you make out on your search, always a better idea out there waiting to be used! Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Lance
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George, the thickness depends on your original prop.
Measure the thickness of the plastic prop or take it from a drawing of your aircraft in the right scale.
Review pictures and try to count or guess the number of used layers. It really depends on the aircraft, typical are 6 to 8 but I have seen also only 4 layers.
measured thickness / number of layers = the needed veneer thickness
For the wood I would check ebay or google for wood veneer manufacturer in your country. Some sell also small examples.
Cheers,
Bughunter
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Thank you, Lance and Bughunter for your replies. Very helpful!!
George
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Hi
I have ahd a crack at carving a wooden prop from veneer
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/11893157943_b79de410fe_c.jpg)
This was my first attempt and I thought it pretty decent... however, the grain is to apparent and it looks nice but not realistic..
Just recently over on Large Scale Planes I saw a little feature on creating 'wooden' props using coloured paper. Sounded a little unlikely, but (obvious my view) I think this chap has created extremely realistic lamination, using a material which is totally accessible and cheap as chips. Apols if this has been shown elsewhere on the forum...
http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=68531
Matt
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Some good food for thought there Matt, I would never have thought of trying this! My first thoughts are that the hardened paper would be a lot harder to carve then wood however you certainly can't argue with the results...... very nice! I may have to play around with this idea a bit, thanks for the post!
Cheers,
Lance
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Lance
I suspect as with any situation where CA is used as a filler/hardener, you'll need to get cracking at carving/sanding quite quickly, before the CA gets to maximum cure....
Matt
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Matt,
Much the same effect as when using CA as a filler, sanding/shaping can be a delicate operation. I wonder if Carpenters white wood glue wouldn't work? We have a Paper Kit Modeller in our Club who uses it to stiffen up delicate parts......
Cheers,
Lance
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If the wood glue is PVA based my concern would be that while strong it never really sets hard, rather goes into a flexible vinyl form which I doubt would sand...? It'd be interesting to hear your friend's view.
Matt
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If the wood glue is PVA based my concern would be that while strong it never really sets hard, rather goes into a flexible vinyl form which I doubt would sand...? It'd be interesting to hear your friend's view.
Matt
Matt,
I use it in wood working and it is quite sandable and dries hard as a rock. As I said on Des's Thread on the imported Tutorial from LSP I intend to experiment with this a bit; the results are quite impressive! I'll try CA and the wood glue to determine what works best.
Cheers,
Lance
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I use the fast drying wood glue (EXPRESS in the name) and only once a problem, after a bottle was to old (a lot of years). With a new bottle it works again.
Important is a pressure during cure process. So I put my veneer pack (see one page back) for a hour in a bench vise. After that its rock solid and can be sanded.
For one air screw I put also a bit of Gunze brown into the glue to get some dark lines had success.
For results see my models in "Completed"-area.
Cheers,
Frank
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Frank,
I use a glue by LePage Canada manufactured by Henkel Canada, I think it's marketed in the USA under the same name. LePage has made glue here "forever", I used LePage paper glue in school as a child 65 or more years ago! Like you I use blocks and a bench vice to apply pressure to the veneer packs.
Cheers,
Lance
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The paper prop sure is convincing!! and cheap!!!! The pear and boxwood props look awesome too!!
Steve
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Evening All,
Somewhere earlier in this thread I wrote that I would describe how to make a 4 bladed propellor in 1/72 scale: well I have finally done so now that I have had to make one for the FE 2d.
Basically I have used the same technique as Frank for his 1/48 scale propellor except that I have only used a single strip of hardwood and I carved the double bladed prop first (as described above). I then carved separately two single blades which were fractionally too long at the root ie where the blade is to be attached to the central boss. I offered the blades individually to the boss and used a round file to make a shallow groove so that when the blade is glued in place there are no gaps.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49615407207_cd85b97d2e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iAkVZi)
Superglue was used to fix the bldes in place with the following result:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49615148621_6649ec5dcb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iAjB7V)
When this has a plastic boss and has been varnished I think that it will make a perfectly acceptable 4 balded prop for an RFC or RNAS machine. For German and Austro-Hungarian aircraft this would not be as good because they had laminated propellors with much stronger tonal differences, so an alternative method would need to be employed. There are plenty of ideas here though!
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.