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WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: Old Man on May 07, 2012, 11:00:16 AM

Title: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2012, 11:00:16 AM
I have wanted for some years to do a model of this particular aeroplane, and have only recently come upon sufficient information to take a decent run at it. It was a wretched flying machine, a dead-end developmentally, and had a very brief and limited service life, but it flew one of the most significant sorties ever flown by any aircraft.

M. Louis Breguet was working on two designs when the Great War broke out, one a tractor and one a pusher, both designed to meet a specification issued by the Aviation Militaire in late 1913 for armored aeroplanes. The tractor, employing a high-power twin-row Gnome rotary, was designated AG.4, the pusher, employing a twin-row Canton-Unne radial, was designated BU.3. One example of the tractor had been completed by early August, components for another, and for the pusher, were in hand but not yet completed and assembled.

M. Breguet had realized during 1913 that his original tractor design pattern, with single spar wings employing warp-control, conical rear fuselage, and an all-flying, cruciform tail surface, had reached the end of its potential, and had  begun designing a twin-spar wing structure which employed ailerons, which he fitted to a pair of racers that year, though these continued with the older fuselage and tail surfaces. The AG.4 incorporated this wing structure, with more conventional, though still all-flying, tail surfaces, and a new fuselage with a squared off structure topped with a standard turtle-back. The result, though able to carry a good weight aloft, like all Breguet designs, was a poor flyer, with poor directional stability, and further hampered by the flaws of the twin-row Gnome rotary, which was a lamentably un-reliable device, however useful it might be, when carefully cossetted and pampered, for bursts of speed at racing meets (or official trials).

As the German advance into France neared the Breguet factory at Douai, M. Breguet flew the completed AG.4 to Paris, placing it and himself at the disposal of Fortified Camp the city had been designated (the components of the other AG.4, and of the BU.3, made the same trip on trucks by road). The Gnome threw a rocker-arm during the flight, but now Cpl. Breguet was fortunate no structural damage was sustained, and managed to keep control of the machine.

On Sept. 2nd, Cpl. Breguet, with Lt. Watteau as observer, flew his AG.4 (it was still his property, not Aviation Militaire equipment) on a long-range reconnaissance from Paris during which Lt. Watteau detected the first signs the German general von Kluck was turning his forces to pass to the east of Paris rather than to the west of it. This report, brought to Gen Gallieni in Paris, was the germ from which the great riposte of the Marne sprang, which forced the German retreat and ensured the hostilities would be no decisive summer campaign but endure for years and set the shape of the whole ensuing century. Because of this the AG.4, however poor its qualities as a flying machine or a service machine, and however brief its use, is owed a very significant place in aviation history.

Shortly after this flight, the AG.4 was accepted by the Aviation Militaire, and given the serial number BR52. It was equipped with a Hotchkiss machine gun in the observer's position, and sent to Escadrille BR.17, equipped with earlier single-spar Breguet designs and operating in Alsace. While there its pilot, Lt. Moineau, a test pilot for Breguet in peace-time, fitted it with a triangular fin and a larger rudder, in an attempt to address its poor stability. It was not wholly successful, and the twin-row Gnome motor gave tremendous difficulties in the field. When the unit re-equipped with Voisins near the end of October, BR52 was abandoned.

The components of the second AG.4 were assembled in October at Paris, fitted with the same fin and an even larger rudder, and taken on by the Aviation Militaire as BR53. Armed with a Hotchkiss machine-gun, it was flown on defensive patrols, with an eye towards engaging any German aeroplanes or Zeppelins flying towards Paris. In this role it received some news-paper coverage claiming it had engaged German Tauben and Aviatiks on several occasions, but this is probably untrue, however comforting it may have been to read in the city. After a series of forced landings, including one on the day after Christmas, 1914, BR53 was written off, sometime around the end of the year.

M. Breguet attempted to salvage the design by fitting a third air-frame with a twin-row Canton-Unne, and fairing out the fuselage to round section with light stringers, but without success. The single example, on trial with the French Navy, crashed on landing after a bombing raid in February of 1915. The Breguet concern was by then devoted to producing pusher bombers, derived from the BU.3, in company with Michellin freres.



Here is pretty much the sum of the available material to guide this build:

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/BreguetAG4org.jpg)

This is the only photograph I have been able to find showing the AG.4 flown to Paris by M. Breguet in its original form (scanned from Warplanes of WWI, Fighters, vol. 4, by J.M. Bruce).

Here are two photographs of the second example, BR53 (the first scanned from the above source):

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/BreguetAG4scnd.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/Avionbreguet1914.jpg)

Here, for interest, is a newspaper photograph (probably of BR53) from the period, with some obvious retouching by the censor:

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/719_BreguetAG4-Br53.jpg)


Here is a drawing in general circulation: it has some good points, but I do not trust it, and of course it shows the late tail assembly:

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/breguet_ag4_350.jpg)

Here is a period drawing from 1914, of a 'Breguet  2 Seater Armoured Biplane': it is not wholly accurate either, but has many useful points, including stated dimensions:

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/bregplnvw2.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/brgpflfntvw2.jpg)

Obviously, there will be a certain 'seat of the pants' quality to this build, but I expect I will be within spitting distance of the real thing when completed, at least....
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2012, 11:15:05 AM
I have gotten underway with this over the last couple of weeks.

I usually wind up beginning with the wings, which, though laborious, are fairly simple.

The starting point is two long rectangles, in this instance of 1mm sheet (as Breguet wings were pretty thin). To get the camber, they are scored deeply and bent, then the open groove is filled with CA glue. The first picture is the upper surface, the lower is the undersurface.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3241.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3243.jpg)

Here are the tools I use past this point:

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3249.jpg)

All of these have sand-papers of various grits attached with double-faced tape. The flat tool, a length of yard-stick, is used to smooth and curve the upper surface; the bottles are used to smooth the under-surface with its concave camber. I use heavy cutting grits for this, 180 and 220. The length of dowel is for taking down the space between ribs, and the edge of the curved blade is the follow-up here. The dowel is easier to control than coils or folds of sand-paper, and leaves a better initial surface than starting out by scraping with the blade's edge.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3250.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3252.jpg)

Here are both wings, in their final shapes, with ribbings marked and set in. The heavy lines mark the ribs that will be taped (every third rib was sewn in tape). The piece that has no ribs marked in its center section will be the lower wing: its center section will be cut out, as there was only bare spar here on the AG.4.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2012, 11:16:18 AM
Here are the wings with their trailing edge scalloping put in (using a half-round needle file.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3256.jpg)

For rib-tapes, I am using 1/64" pin-striping tape. Here is start of the process on the upper wing under-surface. Its dihedral has already been put in, by scoring at the ends of the straight portion of the cut-out.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3259.jpg)

This tape is interesting to use, but I have high hopes for the technique. It is so insubstantial that the static electricity generated by lifting a length of it from the reel will pull it down to the surface of the wing-piece.

Here is the upper wing with all ribs taped, and the whole sprayed with two heavy coats of Tamiya fine white primer.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3261.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3261.jpg)

I want to have the lower wing split and set on its bare spars before taping its ribs.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2012, 11:17:31 AM
Here are some pictures of the lower wing, in just about finished state. It has been split, the panels linked by bare spar, and the rib tapes in place and covered with a heavy coat of rattle-can primer.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3296.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3298.jpg)


The forward 'spar' section is steel, from a paper clip; the rear one one is .9mm styrene rod. Though secure, the thing is definitely wobbly, and in working on it, I use the upper wing as a sort of support cradle...

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3300.jpg)

This is going to affect construction procedure. I am going to have to view things as being suspended from the upper wing rather than built up from the lower wing, and I expect I will assemble the wing cell first, then insert the fuselage (when built), attaching it to the upper wing first.

I will be giving this a bit of a rest now, as I am awaiting arrival of ICM  Fokker and Pfalz E.IV kits. These types employed a fourteen cylinder Gnome of the same dimensions as the one employed here, and I want the motor in hand before I tackle fuselage dimensions, and try and decide if the motor on the AG.4 was geared (I suspect it might have been). I do not know if I will simply pirate one of the motors, or use one as a model for fabrication, or even try some casting in silicon block with the piece or pieces as a master.

So I expect, anyway, to be devoting my next couple of modeling sessions to another project that has been hanging fire a bit, a Curtiss P-1 in Chilean service, for a group build ending on June 10 on ARC. This is a pretty late start, but I have done a lot of Curtiss fighters, so I figure I still have a chance to make the deadline there.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Des on May 07, 2012, 12:14:41 PM
Excellent start on your scratch build, this is a very interesting subject you have chosen and I will be following your progress closely.

Des.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: RAGIII on May 07, 2012, 12:45:54 PM
Your wings have turned out beautifully! looking forward to the remainder of your build and seeing how you overcome the challenges you have mentioned in construction.
RAGIII
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on May 07, 2012, 01:50:23 PM
very nice , i like how you approached the wings.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Whiteknuckles on May 08, 2012, 09:24:35 AM
Nice work old man and an interesting subject!!

Andrew
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: GAJouette on May 08, 2012, 11:14:31 PM
Old Man,
Outstanding project to date my old friend. Very impressive wing construction method that I'm wondering how well the same would work in 1/32 scale. Looking forward to the next update and learning additional tips and techniques from you.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: phs Paddy on May 08, 2012, 11:56:08 PM
Love to follow these scratch builds. Always informing and a joy to watch the craftsmanship.

Paddy
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on May 11, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
and old man is a master as such things. his 1/72 scratchbuilt stuff is second to none. very thorough detailing.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: coyotemagic on May 15, 2012, 03:36:43 AM
Another masterpiece in the making.  Love the esoteric subjects you choose.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: ta152c on May 15, 2012, 09:18:17 AM
Such a delight to see simple tools making such delicate shapes -bravo!

Regards :)
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: GAJouette on June 05, 2012, 02:24:13 AM
   Old Man,
Long time no see updates my old friend. How's the little Gem progressing ?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on June 23, 2012, 02:08:45 PM
I am just about finished with the Chilean Curtiss project I put this build aside to deal with (as it had a group build deadline).

I am now working on the fuselage of the Breguet....

I am doing the fuselage in front and rear sections.

The forward section began with a square front piece. The fuselage tapers back from the front, but tapers more sharply at the very front. Short side-pieces of 1mm thickness were put in place for the area of sharper taper. A solid front decking of 2mm and 1mm sheet laminated was placed over these and filed to curved section. Then further side-pieces of 15 thousandth sheet, long enough to encompass the cockpit area, were added. They are anchored temporarily at the rear by a bit of scrap sheet.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3450.jpg)

The bottom of this area has a curved section, and will in some degree be visible through the open cockpit area. It was, I am reasonably sure, on the actual aeroplane, armor plate. It is made from a piece of 2mm sheet, with billets of 1mm sheet added at the sides and rear. The inside face is scraped and sanded out, and the other face is filed to its proper curves and contours. Once this has been done to near finished standard, it is glued to the rest of the forward element, and sanded in.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3454.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3455.jpg)


The rear portion of the fuselage is a pretty simple box, with the base from 1mm sheet, and the sides from the same 15 thou sheet as the cockpit area sides of the forward elements. These were all cut over-size, with the sides affixed to the bottom, and then trimmed and sanded to proper size and shape.


(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3456.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3457.jpg)

The last picture shows both fuselage segments loosely taped together for reference.

I am not decided yet whether I will put on the rear fuselage turtledeck before or after the two fuselage elements are joined.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on June 23, 2012, 02:15:47 PM
i cant wait to see more, i know your work and i enjoy viewing the progress.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: coyotemagic on June 23, 2012, 03:45:46 PM
I love watching your work on these obscure types, OM.  Your skills are matched only by your taste.  Wonderful stuff.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Des on June 23, 2012, 04:20:45 PM
Looking really good Old Man, the wings turned out beautiful and the fuselage is taking shape very nicely, looking forward to seeing more.

Des.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: GAJouette on June 24, 2012, 02:35:01 PM
  Old Man,
Absolutely beautiful work my old friend. Looking forwardto the next update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on July 24, 2012, 07:08:43 AM
Thank you very much for your interest, my friends. There is considerable progress to report now on this, as I have gotten a couple of other, more modern projects squared away.

After finishing my Curtiss P-1A in Chilean markings

http://www.swannysmodels.com/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1341870425

And getting pretty solidly stuck in to a B-17D of the 50tyh Recce Squadron at Hickam Field in 1941

http://www.swannysmodels.com/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1341870619

I have gotten back onto this project.

The first thing I did was to deal with the motor. I decided to use the twin-row Gnome from an ICM Pfalz E-IV kit. This fits the cowling in the kit very well, but this is awfully thick, so I extended the length of the cylinders by adding caps of 1mm sheet, and trimmed off the lifter riods moulded to the front of each cylinder. The crankcase front of the kit piece is flat, so I gave it a bit of a dome from 2.5mm tube. To the cylinder heads, I added lifters from .5mm x .25mm strip, and put in lifter rods from .25mm round rod. Here is the result after a coat of primer.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3525.jpg)

Next I assembled the fuselage pieces. I gave the rear element a 'cap' in front from 1mm sheet, to provide a rear to the cockpit area and give something to grip at that point when working the assembly later, and to ease some oddities of the juncture between the armored front and the tail portion.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3512.jpg)

Once these were were glued together, I rounded the cap to a proper shape, and laid in the turtle-back, from a piece of 3mm sheet (a thin wedge of scrap left from making the wings of a Hawker Demon late last year), and bit of 1.5mm sheet. The 3mm piece was sanded to a slat first, then the 1.5mm piece was put on, and sanded down to final slant. Then the proper contour was put in.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3533.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3538.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3542.jpg)

Now, the forward decking for the cockpit, and the basic cowling, are on, and the basic interior is done.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3562.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3557.jpg)

The interior elements are conjectural, but based on knowledge of earlier Breguet aeroplanes. The pattern of the steel tubing is that of earlier machines, with the exception that tube has been substituted for wire in one angle (on this much larger and heavier machine). The upright tubes and cross-pieces are about the most important elements of the whole, from a modeling point of view, as these are where the cabane struts will attach. Though neither of these photographs show it, there is a large copper fuel tank just in front of the cockpit opening.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3572.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3565.jpg)

Here is a good look at the basic cowling. It was put onto the model in four pieces: a strip bent to the upper curve, a front piece of 2mm sheet cut to the curves and worked on its inside to proper section, and two cheek-pieces, one on either side. It took a bit of sanding, and heavy applications of primer, to get it all smooth.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3550.jpg)

I had to re-do my cylinder-head detailing on the motor, since even though I made the cowling pieces thin as I could, the motor did not quite fit in. I sanded about a quarter millimeter off each cylinder, and re-did what had to be replaced, taking the opportunity to add a ring around the projection of the crank-case, to give  better appearance to the inside joint of the rocker arms.

Here is the motor now in the cowling, approximately where it will be attached...

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3567.jpg)

Further work to be done on the cowling includes bringing the lip of the lower 'scoop' forward a bit, and, after the motor is attached, putting a bottom strip to the forward portion of the cowling, and supports across the front of the cowling to the propeller attachment....

Seats and controls and instruments for the interior will be next, and I intend to put on the tail surfaces, and portions of the landing gear, onto the fuselage before beginning the process of mating with the wings.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Des on July 24, 2012, 08:16:34 AM
Beautiful work on the fuselage and engine Old Man, looking forward to seeing the cockpit internals fitted.

Des.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on September 04, 2012, 02:33:14 PM
I have been plugging away on this, along with some other projects, and here are some pictures of recent progress on it....

First, the cockpit complete, with cabanes attached....

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3633.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3629.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3645.jpg)

The detail is, of course, conjectural, but earlier Breguet used wooden seats with large holes, employed a 'dep-wheel' stick with three spokes, and had sparse instrumentation. Given that this was a prototype that remained private property, I cannot see much in the way of service equipment being installed in the observer's cockpit, but I have put in a map-board and map for his use; these were pretty common, and easily installed.

The cabane struts attach directly to the tube frame-work, in the case of the forward pair through holes let into the forward decking. On the real item, the struts were wooden fairing around steel tube; I have let short lengths of round rod into the ends of strips of sheet. Drawings show the cabanes as vertical and in struct line for and aft, but photographs show then raked forward a little, and if the struts of each side are to attach to the upper wings spars at the same width from the center, given the widening of the fuselage towards the nose, the rear cabanes simply must slant outwards a little.

Beginning to work on the nose, I decided the cowling was a bit long (just a feel by eye, there really is nothing I can trust for fine dimension in the available drawings), and so I sanded it down short, and replaced the front upper plate. I then put in a center hole to set the rear extension of the motor into (to preserve the space in front of the motor), installed the engine, and assembled the cowling front elements (which I still suspect contain a gear-box somewhere...)....

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3648.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3636.jpg)

I changed plan a bit, and went to work on the wings, starting with the fit of the upper wing to the cabane struts (pretty much the most important element of the whole build). So here is a brief appearance of the rare 'Breguet Parasol'....

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3649.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3653.jpg)

State of play is a bit in advance now of the pictures again. I have decided to assemble the wing cellule, and attach it as a unit to the fuselage, by hanging it from the cabanes. The wings are painted (with ribs and spars drawn in in pencil prior to painting on the undersurfaces), and joined with their interplane struts. I will do all rigging that does not involve the cabanes to complete the assembly before joining it to the fuselage (which will by then have its tail surfaces and some undercarriage elements attached)....
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: uncletony on September 04, 2012, 10:15:34 PM
Great stuff, OM. Glad to see an update on this fascinating project.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: GAJouette on September 05, 2012, 01:40:40 AM
  Old Man,
As always outstanding work my old friend. Her interior works are absolutely beautiful and so well done. Looking forward to more of this beauty.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: coyotemagic on September 05, 2012, 02:35:29 AM
Beautiful work, as always.  She's really coming along, now.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on September 05, 2012, 01:35:38 PM
lookin really nice as always with your builds old man.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Whiteknuckles on September 08, 2012, 03:31:55 PM
Great progress work OM, it's been a pleasure so far watching this beauty come to life and very much appreciated.

Andrew
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on September 10, 2012, 03:24:41 PM
Thank you very much for your kind comments, Gentlemen.


Here is some further progress, now in living color. It feels like the down-hill slope on this is at least beginning.


The wings have been rigged and painted, the fuselage given some surface detail and painted, and had a couple of undercarriage elements put on, and the tail surfaces have been made, and painted in tricolor stripes.

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3678.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3674.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3681.jpg)

I will fix the dark sections on the lower wing; I did not thin paint used for a bit of touch-up sufficiently. the contrast is starker in the pictures, but is apparent to the eye. I expect a bot of white cut into the color will do the trick.

And though there is still a ways to go before I do attach the wings to the fuselage (among other things, the tail surfaces need to go on...), here is a glimpse of the shape of things to come, with the wings settled on the cabane struts, aligned in their locating holes....

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3666.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3668.jpg)
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Chris Johnson on September 11, 2012, 12:49:23 AM
For me, that's a very interesting approach to rigging. My concern would be that when I mounted the wings on the fuselage (or vice versa) the tension of the rigging would be disturbed if the wings were to somehow flex during the procedure. On the other hand, do you rely on the applied tension from the rigging to prevent that from happening?

Bear in mind that the way I build, I'm apt to use a shoehorn when fitting the two assemblies together!  ;D

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on September 11, 2012, 01:07:12 AM
For me, that's a very interesting approach to rigging. My concern would be that when I mounted the wings on the fuselage (or vice versa) the tension of the rigging would be disturbed if the wings were to somehow flex during the procedure. On the other hand, do you rely on the applied tension from the rigging to prevent that from happening?

Bear in mind that the way I build, I'm apt to use a shoehorn when fitting the two assemblies together!  ;D

Cheers,

Chris

Thank you, Sir.

In this case, I took this route because the lower wing, with just those two little bits connecting the panels, was so weak and wobbly that there was no chance of a usual 'put fuselage on lower wing, add struts, top with upper wing and rig' procedure working. With the wings joined, and the outer portion of the rigging done, the wings are a fairly solid sub-assembly, though I will have to take care not to shift things side-wise when attaching the lower cabane struts between the fuselage and lower wing center section. The tension of the elastic rigging does act to stiffen the assembly noticeably.

I have assembled the wings before, when scratch-building a Farman MF 11, which has the nacelle percehd mid-gap between a pair of interplane struts. But I suspect I will try this on my next pass at a Roden Bristol Fighter; it might save some tricky bits....
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: RAGIII on September 14, 2012, 02:18:27 PM
Great progress on an educational and exciting build!
RAGIII
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Dal Gavan on October 06, 2012, 05:24:11 PM
Old Man, I can only echo the other posters- that's excellent modelling.  I'm lookig forward to the next update.

Dal. 
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on November 09, 2012, 02:08:31 AM
Getting near the end here, my friends....

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3790.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3794.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3797.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3800.jpg)

There is still some bits of 'true-ing up' to do; some of the rigging here is actually functional, and holding elements where they ought to be. One of the elevators got a bit droopy when attaching the connecting bar aft of the rudder; this will be fixed. No point going into detail on the  attachment of the wings, particularly making and fitting the lower cabane struts; I knew it was going to be difficult and it was...

Still a good deal of rigging to do, various drag and drift wires from the inter-planes to the fuselage, and control wires for tail surfaces and ailerons. Wheels and the rear element of the tail-skid have to be made, and a propeller. Then we have it, ready for take-off to spy out von Kluck's right flank...
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: pepperman42 on November 09, 2012, 03:05:22 AM
It got quiet for a while there and then BOOM!! Nice modelling.

Steve
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Des on November 09, 2012, 07:33:33 AM
She's looking very nice Old Man, the wheels and prop will make a huge difference, your rigging so far is excellent, this is a very attractive model.

Des.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Old Man on November 12, 2012, 01:21:14 PM
Done, my friends....

Breguet AG-4, camp retranché de Paris, September 2, 1914

scratch-build in 1/72 scale

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3801.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3804.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3808.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3819.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3815.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3816.jpg)

(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd447/vieuxhomme/IMG_3821.jpg)

As the reconnaissance flight flown by M. Breguet and Lt. Watteau from Paris on September 2, 1914, went a long way towards seeing to it the Great War did not end in a summer's campaign. Armistice Day seems a fitting time to finish and post up this model. The AG-4 was a one-off, a very poor flying machine, yet even so, it played a very significant role in history.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: LindsayT on November 12, 2012, 01:37:34 PM
She's beautiful, Old Man. Indeed, on a fitting day. You've paid tribute nicely.

Well done,

Lindsay
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: coyotemagic on November 12, 2012, 01:49:59 PM
She's beautiful, Old Man. Indeed, on a fitting day. You've paid tribute nicely.

Well done,

Lindsay

Couldn't have said it better, OM!  You can be very proud of this one.
Cheers,
Bud
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Des on November 12, 2012, 02:34:53 PM
Absolutely superb Old Man, congratulations on achieving such an excellent result. You have produced a real gem and what makes it even more remarkable is the scale, well done, you should be very proud.

Des.
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Chris Johnson on November 13, 2012, 12:45:08 AM
Superb craftsmanship. Well done.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: GAJouette on November 17, 2012, 06:28:49 AM
Old Man,
Outstanding project my old friend.Congratulations to you for your Master Level Craftsmanship and Modeling skills. Well Done my friend!
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: lcarroll on November 17, 2012, 07:06:47 AM
Very nicely done OM. To me Scratch Building is a black art and very much in the future, you've nailed it with this result.
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: Whiteknuckles on November 23, 2012, 02:41:58 PM
Great work OM, excellent work and an excellent scratchbuild. You can be proud of this bird.

Andrew
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: S.BREGUET on May 08, 2019, 06:19:56 AM
Hello,  Mr Old Man !
Newbie on this forum, I find out your topic about the Breguet  AG 4. Congratulations, this very old bird is very successful. It (or the U2 or U3) tempt me for a 1/48 model, cause its history that you well done related. But I have to perform scratchbuild technics.
Your step-by-step is very interesting and clear.
Where did you find the plan ?  It’s the first I saw one with dimensions (inch ?)-but difficult to read .

Best regards
Stéphane Breguet
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: RAGIII on May 08, 2019, 06:29:17 AM
I don't know how I missed this but I did! Brilliant scratch building Old Man! Beautiful results!!
RAGIII
Title: Re: Breguet AG.4, early September, 1914
Post by: andonio64 on May 09, 2019, 11:23:53 PM
Old Man, that's a great work showing here!
I'll keep following and appreciating!!!

Antonio