forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

The WW1 modelers' reference library => Engines => Topic started by: Jamo on May 06, 2012, 10:52:28 AM

Title: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Jamo on May 06, 2012, 10:52:28 AM
These photos are of the restored Mercedes DIIIa engine fitted to The Vintage Aviator Ltd's first Albatros reproduction, ZK-DVA, which is painted as Josef Mai's 5284/17.

If you are modelling the Wingnut Wings Albatros there are some additional details that can be added, if you want to go further than 'out of the box'.

(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20restored/Nov262011k.jpg)

The oil tank has a breather tube (?) and a feed tube:
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20restored/Nov262011t.jpg)

The air pump as a drain cock coming of at a diagonal angle:
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20restored/Jan1027.jpg)

Asbestos cloth wrapped around the inlet manifold:
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20restored/14Nov69.jpg)

Note the overhead cam is not black. The kit does not include sparkplugs, which are reasonably prominent:
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20restored/Nov262011l.jpg)

Here is a link to album (19 photos):
http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20restored/
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Jamo on May 06, 2012, 11:06:45 AM
Another TVAL Albatros reproduction 7343/17 also has an original Mercedes DIIIa engine but it varies from the one above by having a hot water jacket/double-wall in the intake manifold, which did away with the need for the Asbestos wrapping.

(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/Mar12Alby220.jpg)

(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/Mar12Alby234.jpg)

Notice the priming cups fitted alongside the sparkplugs:
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/Mar12Alby190.jpg)

Check out the fuel leads to the twin carbs:
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/Mar12Alby207.jpg)

(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/Mar12Alby218detail.jpg)

I don't fully understand what function some of these items have:
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/Mar12Alby226detail.jpg)

The kit fuel tank caps have no detail. This photo shows what could be added:
(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/Mar12Alby264.jpg)

(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/Mar12Alby222detail.jpg)

(http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/Mar12Alby235detail.jpg)

Here is a link to the full album with 50 photos:
http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/af234/Jamo_kiwi/Mercedes%20DIIIa%20engine%20with%20jacketed%20inlet%20manifold/?start=all
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Tony Haycock on May 06, 2012, 04:14:54 PM
Hi James

The mechanism you aren't sure about looks like the advance/retard mechanism on the magneto to alter the ignition timing.

Regards

Tony
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Whiteknuckles on May 06, 2012, 04:18:18 PM
Thanks for more great photo's and more resources James.

Andrew
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Jamo on May 06, 2012, 04:56:16 PM
Hi James

The mechanism you aren't sure about looks like the advance/retard mechanism on the magneto to alter the ignition timing.

Regards

Tony

Sounds good to me, thanks Tony!
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Des on May 06, 2012, 07:36:00 PM
Excellent photos Jamo, these are a wealth of information for the modeler, thank you for posting them.

Des.
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Jose Chaica on May 06, 2012, 08:34:21 PM
Excellent photos! Many thanks, James.  :)
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: pepperman42 on May 06, 2012, 11:20:44 PM
All the reference you need. Thanx!!!!

Steve
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: GAJouette on May 07, 2012, 12:20:08 PM
  James,
Thanks my old friend for suppling even more outstanding photo references to us.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: kornbeef on May 08, 2012, 01:02:51 AM
AMS FRENZIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE  :D
wow

Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Pete Nottingham on May 09, 2012, 05:25:30 PM
Many thanks for sharing the photos James, a great source of information and reference.

Cheers

Pete.
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Bob Sands on September 12, 2012, 09:33:02 AM
  I'm a new guy, so please be gentle,...
  1.  Is there an easy place to go for reference material about these engines?
  2.  With exposed valve springs, were they "evil" messy things?  I'm remembering the time I left the oil filler cap off the car.  Inattention has a way of teaching you things!
  Thanx  Bob
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Flugzeugwerke on September 12, 2012, 10:02:54 AM
Bob, to answer your second question somewhat obliquely, a few general observations:

-- Valve springs per se do not require lubrication.

-- Poppet valves are typically not lubricated in their guides with engine oil, rather by the inherent lubricity of the fuel (and exhaust) mixture.

-- The cam, cam followers and rockers are most definitely lubricated by engine oil, but in the case of the D.III the messy bits are enclosed by the rocker covers.

In short, my guess is the thing probably throws a bit more oil than a modern engine, but nothing like the total loss system of a contemporary rotary.
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Jamo on September 12, 2012, 10:55:49 AM
Hi Bob
Another angle on your question is to look at the photos as a working engine not a museum piece, so what you see is what you get. The TVAL planes are flown reasonably frequently and exhibit a similar kind of usage you expect from WWI. Some of the engines and airframes are quite grungy with exhaust and oil, especially the rotaries and Beardmore.

Cheers
James
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: bobs_buckles on September 12, 2012, 07:15:45 PM
Thanks for the superb reference, James.

Out the box has never been so much fun!

Cheers,
Bob  :D
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Flugzeugwerke on December 30, 2012, 04:57:01 PM
Some usefull images of a D.IIIa in the Krakow museum here:

http://hydro-carbons.blogspot.com/2012/09/mercedes-diii-180hp-engine.html
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: GAJouette on December 31, 2012, 12:21:38 AM
  Bo,
What a great title for the website "Grease N Gasoline" Much appreciate the link my old friend. I'd imagine Keith (Kornedbeef) will shortly be including dings and dents in his intake manifolds and oil lines. AMS or not Keith is the Detail Master  IMHO.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
HAPPY NEW YEAR to You and Yours
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: kornbeef on January 02, 2013, 09:02:20 AM
Moi? How very dare you  ;D

My latest build (will post in prog pics when the weather allows) Is the Fok Variant in the guise of Bruno Loerzer pre accident of course, To be honest I've had some difficulty in constructin and a unplanned drop did some unpleasant damages, I suggest anyone builds a cowls on version strengthens the joins between cowls and fuselage (My only ral gripe with WNW's D.VII so far is that they could have produced her with both fuselage options for early and late, that bodge joint just isnt upto standard. They did it on the old SE5A to give you a wrinkle option... Anyway. Shut up keith :o
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Jamo on January 30, 2014, 06:33:11 PM
I will ask next time I am over there, may not be soon though.
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Trackpad on April 06, 2014, 11:02:24 PM
Aha! Now I know what a "priming cup" is! Which way to Aviattic??  ;D
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: dr 1 ace on April 07, 2014, 08:31:38 AM


Jamo and Bo, thanks for posting the pics/site !!


Ed
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Adam on April 07, 2014, 07:05:53 PM
Jamo and Bo thank you for these interesting links.

Adam.
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Flugzeugwerke on April 07, 2014, 07:34:16 PM
All I did was dig up a link; Jamo took all those amazing pictures and has made them available to all of us at (relatively) high resolution, he deserves the thanks ...
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: BillB on September 12, 2018, 03:42:25 AM
For some interesting tidbits about the Mercedes engine, including the oil mess from the exposed springs, check out YouTube, searching for Kermie Cam Albatros.  "Albatros D-II in New Zealand" was particularly helpful, I thought.
Kermit Weeks has videos with lots of technical info on several WWI airplanes.

- Bill
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: RLWP on October 06, 2019, 08:19:59 AM
Oh great, Photobucket strikes again!

Richard
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: AlbertD on October 23, 2019, 05:19:45 AM
These look like beautiful photos but they are all way out of focus for me. Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Jamo on October 23, 2019, 08:25:46 AM
I will move all those photos to my Smugmug album tonight and post a new link for you all
Cheers
James
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: RLWP on October 23, 2019, 06:26:20 PM
These look like beautiful photos but they are all way out of focus for me. Am I doing something wrong?

No, this is stupid Photobucket pulling another stunt to raise money

Richard
Title: Re: Mercedes DIIIa
Post by: Jamo on October 24, 2019, 06:22:35 AM
The photos are now located here:
https://jamesfahey.smugmug.com/Mercedes-DIIIa-engine/

To download, don't use a right hand mouse button click, use the small download icon on the lower right hand side of the screen:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Oddments/i-d8PHNZ7/0/87ed8cda/M/Download%20icon-M.jpg)

This time the images are hi-res, hope you find them useful. It is a new build engine from The Vintage Aviator Ltd who are based here in Wellington, New Zealand. Note it has a water cooled jacket around the induction piping

Cheers
James