forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => WW1 Aircraft Information/Questions => Topic started by: Des on August 03, 2013, 07:59:24 PM
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Now that my Caudron is finished I am contemplating attacking the WnW Fokker D.VII, but I would like to do it in the following scheme, does anyone have nay further information on this particular aircraft.
Many thatks,
Des.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jpilmgrfyHw/UfzOXGv3uvI/AAAAAAAAIhw/7jxp4EAhqT8/s900/59_35.jpg)
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Thanks for the info back to Wingnuts, I found the decal sheet you are referring to, I think I prefer the blue though but the trident will come in very handy.
Des.
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That plane is featured in the Fokker DVII Aces of WWI Part 2 on p28 and a colour profile (with the red) #14 on p53. The pitchfork insignia belonged to the previous owner of the plane, Staffel commander Ltn Otto Creutzmann, It is a manure pitchfork in recognition of the Creutzmann family's large livestock farm. Raesch's family were also farmers so he decided to keep the insignia. "The colour of the nose is unrecorded - blue has been suggested but red is a plausible choice" according to the authors Greg VanWyngarden and Norman Franks.
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Looks nice in blue, Jamo did his homework! ;D
Anthology 1 and 3 have anything else on the subject, neither datafile 9. Maybe Anthology 2 has something more?
That said just would like to add that the number 2 it's missing in the tail fin.
Sorry if i can't be more helpful.
Cheers
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Thanks for the info guys, the Wingnuts decal sheet includes the number 2.
Des.
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this scheme was mistakenly done in blue years ago. it should be red and white . it was also believed some of the red/white dr.1 schemes of jasta 18 were blue and white. i am more than sure the concencus is that this was a misinterpretation of the old ortho originals.
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Hey Des i found this amusing being the scheme you want.
Just a game, don't know if you want to take a peek but...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryyPQbpvWQw
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Thanks Zabu for the link, when I first read your post I was all excited thinking I was going to see a blue and white Fokker, damn, it's red and white :(
Des.
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Surely a good excuse to do two D.VII's at the same time Des - one Red/White one Blue/White ;D 8)
(I know you only do one of each bird that interests you.)
Sounds like another of those interminable debates on WW1 camo details - I do like the Blue/White, a pity if it is incorrect.
Andrew
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"The colour of the nose is unrecorded - blue has been suggested but red is a plausible choice" as posted by Jamo
If this is the case surely a blue and white would be as acceptable as a red and white, nobody really knows what the true colour was. Many are leaning towards the red and white as being the "plausible" colour but in my way of thinking what difference does it make, who is going to unequivocally state that the blue and white is incorrect, there is no solid proof that the red or the blue is the correct colour, it is only speculation.
Kit manufacturers should provide all options on their colour charts and decals instead of trying to push what they think is the correct colour, they are no more correct than anyone else.
Des.
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Des, the choice of colours by interpretation of black and white photographs alone does leave a wide area of colour choice, to be sure, but there are other factors to be taken into account both documented and circumstantial, which help to nudge us in a certain direction or other.
With the aircraft in question, one of the pieces of information which would tend to direct me to a red/white interpretation, is the documented fact that many/some of Jasta 43's Fokker D.VIIs were passed on from Jasta 18, whose colours of red and white are well documented. Jasta 43's marking of a white tail was achieved on these machines simply by leaving this area as painted in the Jasta 18 livery and modifying the rest of the scheme by varying degrees.
Attached are some drawings I have made of Jasta 43 D.VIIs and Options 4, 5 & 6 and possibly 2 are representative of these machines. Some of these will be appearing in future Pheon decal sets and you can rest assured that I won't be "pushing" any particular scheme without some evidence.... an approach followed even more assiduously by Wingnuts - in my experience:
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h77/airbag2/Pheon%20Models/Jasta_43_P1_zpsa578956f.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/airbag2/media/Pheon%20Models/Jasta_43_P1_zpsa578956f.jpg.html)
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h77/airbag2/Pheon%20Models/Jasta_43_P2_zps0c19600a.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/airbag2/media/Pheon%20Models/Jasta_43_P2_zps0c19600a.jpg.html)
In the final cut though, the choice of colours is yours - it's your model after all and what others think is neither here nor there. Whatever you choose to do, one thing is certain; it'll be a cracking model!
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Thanks very much Rowan for your comments relating to this issue. I fully understand the difficulties in determining colours from black and white photos, near impossible in most cases, and so called documented evidence is not always accurate. I can see your point about the aircraft originally being from Jasta 18 where the colours were primarily red and white and well documented, but there is no evidence to suggest the colours were kept the same when the aircraft were transferred to Jasta 43. If I was the commander of Jasta 43 I would definitely want the colours changed to make my Jasta unique.
It must be an extremely difficult and frustrating job not only for you but for all decal manufacturers to present a sheet of decals with colours that after an enormous amount of research prove to be speculative. I was not having a go at WnW for their colour choice for this particular aircraft, this is what they believe to be an accurate definition of the scheme used, but when there is no hard evidence of the colour and there has been suggestions of another colour that choice should be left open to the builder and a note made in the instructions of the colour choices.
You are correct in what you said, it is my model and I will paint it what ever colour I wish, but I do strive to keep my models as historically correct as possible, so with the devision that has appeared it seems that red and white or blue and white will both be correct, we will never know the truth.
Des.
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...So blue it will be, Des?
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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;)
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As you point out ,Des, the red scheme of Jasta 18 is well documented. To assume that the colours were retained when the airframes were transferred to Jasta 43 is possible, but like you I speculate that a desire for a distinct unit identity is just as likely, or perhaps more so to have resulted in another colour. If it's a case of either colour being possible/probable, I personally would go with the rather more unique blue, it just looks better to my eye.
Looking forward to your Build regardless of colour choice!
Cheers,
Lance ;)
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for me its what i get used to seeing as well, i have seen this scheme done in red almost exclusively so when i see the blue it looks funny so my perception is that its wrong. but thats just to my eye and like i said probably cuz ive always seen it portrayed that way. no matter which way you go des it will be an incredible dvii and i am eager to see that you have started snippin sprues.
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In the final cut though, the choice of colours is yours - it's your model after all and what others think is neither here nor there. Whatever you choose to do, one thing is certain; it'll be a cracking model!
+1
Your going blue? That's nice!
Cheers