forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: uncletony on May 01, 2012, 06:15:17 AM
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Any tricks out there?
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Yep... Don't paint them! Pencil them ;)
BVB
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Bob,
Do you pencil the entire prop or paint your base coat then pencil in the laminations?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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I give the prop a base coat of Tamiya Deck Tan and seal it with Dullcote. Then I use the coloured pencil to lay in the dark lamination. I follow that with some Tamiya Clear Yellow and seal again with a Satin clear coat.
Just make sure that you get artist's oil based or watercolour coloured pencils rather than the waxy school pencils we all have laying around the house. You'll save yourself considerable aggravation.
Cheers,
Chris
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Here are two photos of my first attempt at doing a laminated propeller. I firstly sprayed a base coat of Gunze acrylic then like what Chris has said, I used a coloured pencil to apply the lamination, I finished off with two coats of Humbrol clear. Next time I will use a better quality colour pencil.
Des.
(http://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/laminated%20x%201.jpg)
(http://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/laminated%20x%202.jpg)
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Hmmm. Used pencils for weathering, chipping etc but not to this extent. Looks good.
Steve
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the hardest part is getting the laminations symetrical.
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I tend to draw my props too
(http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/itreallywasntme/prop.jpg)
Apply base coat of acrylic.
Draw laminations of the darker wood, I tend to outline in black and fill in with dark browns
draw wood graining on lighter wood
seal with clear orange / yellow and gloss up.
I would be tempted to add in an oil based wood graining at some stage as well but the above prop didn't have that.
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Here are 2 of mine, the first is the WNW LVG with the prop base sprayed in a sand colour, masked carefully then oversprayed in earth brown. Then coated with a thin brushing of oil paints to give depth to the laminations and wood grain effect.
The second is from the Revell 1:72 E.III, again base sprayed then watercolour pencil application for the darker laminates, then covered with oil paints.
(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj621/ianfromdoncaster/100_12562.jpg)
(http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj621/ianfromdoncaster/finishedprop1.jpg)
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Bob,
Do you pencil the entire prop or paint your base coat then pencil in the laminations?
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
All the above... lol
That saved me some time.. ;D
Von Buckle
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So what range of pencils are we looking at then? I have some Derwent watercolour pencils but, as they are water soluble, I can't see these things appreciating a coating of Klear to seal them.
Trevor
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That's the pencils I use
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Very good effects with the pencil technique gents, thanks for the pic's.
Most of the props seem to be about six layers of lamination - is this personal preference or does it reflect the actual construction of the props by the relevant manufacturer and the types of wood they used?
Andrew
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So what range of pencils are we looking at then? I have some Derwent watercolour pencils but, as they are water soluble, I can't see these things appreciating a coating of Klear to seal them.
Trevor
Those are the ones I use too. I've never experienced any issue with sealing them and I just use a rattle can Satin clear coat.
Cheers,
Chris
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KM's Oeffag D.III, Austro Daimler motor, not sure of prop type -- 8 laminations by my count
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/kolomay/Bild052.jpg)
heine prop and repro (KM) for Eindecker
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/kolomay/newheine.jpg)
Axial props under construction (KM) for Dr1s
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/kolomay/IMG_8501.jpg)
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A website dedicated to wooden props, inc. WWI types from all nations:
http://www.woodenpropeller.com/index.html (http://www.woodenpropeller.com/index.html)
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Great, thanks Uncle Tony for the pics and the website ;)
Andrew
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Much appreciated my friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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That prop site is handy. Thanx!!!
Steve
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Thanks for your replies chaps.
Trevor
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Another very useful thread! Thanks gents for providing the details. Next one out of the box will be an attempt to put this info to work.
Paddy :)
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I hand carve most of mine, not as difficult as it seems and anyone with a basic wood working capability can do it. I am the first to admit that some of the "pencilled" versions look as good and often better however.
I can cobble together a basic "How to" thread if useful.
Two quick examples.......
DR1 Heine Prop.
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_1015.jpg)
and Albatros DIII Axial..
(http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n583/lcarroll1/IMG_04351.jpg)
Cheers,
Lance
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Those look very good Lance. I'm wondering what wood or woods your chose for the carvings? I have been considering an attempt but was thinking along the line of basswood. As you know almost grainless so may require using the pencil technique to get a laminated look.
Paddy
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I can cobble together a basic "How to" thread if useful.
I for one, would appreciate reading that. Not that I see myself carving one in my immediate future, but it would be interesting to see how you do it.
Cheers,
Chris
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Paddy,
I use the thin plywood (1/8 inch up to 3/16 ) that are used for flying models on control and engine mounts etc. Laminations can be as many as 6 and I also laminate two thicknesses to get more depending on the depth of the prop. I also use assorted veneers which are 1/16 or less thick and glue/clamp them in layers for the stock. I bought a Veneer sample pack (Lee Valley Tools) which has several dozen colors in it; sheets are 12X6 inches and I've probably got a lifetime supply there.
Chris,
I'm gone for a 4 day weekend visit to my Daughters, I'll put together a brief and basic how to thread next week on return.
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....I'll put together a brief and basic how to thread next week on return....
Looking forward to it Lance. While I don't see myself ever hand carving my own props, I do enjoy seeing the crafting process of those more talented than myself!!!
Andrew
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Lance,
A how to thread for carving props would be most appreciated my old friend. I've admired your projects over at Aeroscale for a fair number years and absolutely had no clue that you were carving your own props. They always look outstanding too.And here all this time I thought you were an acceptionally talented at painting your props to look so real. Now I know better,and your props are even more impressive. I'm looking forward to following your example by trying my hand at carving.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Paddy,
I use the thin plywood (1/8 inch up to 3/16 ) that are used for flying models on control and engine mounts etc. Laminations can be as many as 6 and I also laminate two thicknesses to get more depending on the depth of the prop. I also use assorted veneers which are 1/16 or less thick and glue/clamp them in layers for the stock. I bought a Veneer sample pack (Lee Valley Tools) which has several dozen colors in it; sheets are 12X6 inches and I've probably got a lifetime supply there.
Thanks Lance. Now you’ve got the old wheels turning. I was thinking of the basswood because it is such a pleasure to carve by hand. The plywood does give one a true laminated material to work in or like you said get a veneer pack and do your own glue up. I was just checking the woods available through Woodcraft yesterday and was looking at veneer packs but for building a base for the vignette I’m working on.
Bottom line is I have a Foredom rotary shaft power tool that I use for carving at times and it maybe just the ticket for carving a prop from the thin plywood.
Paddy
P.S. I also do some buying through Lee Valley down here and have always had great service from them.
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Hi Lance,
Look forward to seeing your tutorial.
I have used thin veneers in the past, but have yet to master the art.
Cheers,
Von Buckle
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Thanks for the tutorial offer Lance. More options are a good thing!!!!
Steve
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Bertl,
They don't get any better than those. Wonderful work!
Paddy
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I've tried to emulate your work Bertl, but I'm not even in the same ballpark. These are definitely the best propellers I've ever seen.
Cheers,
Chris
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Brilliant work on the propellers Bertl, could you please let us know what brand of coloured pencil you use and the colours you prefer, many thanks.
Des.
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Nice set of props there Bertl, well done!!
Andrew
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Amazing!!
Steve
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Bertl,
Your "pencilled" props are spectacular. To repeat an earlier comment, they don't get any better then that! Truly great craftsmanship.
Cheers,
Lance
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Lance,
A how to thread for carving props would be most appreciated my old friend. I've admired your projects over at Aeroscale for a fair number years and absolutely had no clue that you were carving your own props. They always look outstanding too.And here all this time I thought you were an acceptionally talented at painting your props to look so real. Now I know better,and your props are even more impressive. I'm looking forward to following your example by trying my hand at carving.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Just got back from the weekend away from the home drome and workbench. I'll put a separate thread on carving method etc together and post it here hopefully by the end of this week. I must say though that I'm going to try some of the other painted/pencilled techniques in future. In particular Umlaufmotor's (Bertl's) results are spectacular; I've got to try to learn that technique. What a beautiful result(s)!
Cheers,
Lance
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Bertl,
As always truly amazing Master Level Craftsmanship my old friend. Your laminated props are the best I've seen to date.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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" I'll put a separate thread on carving method etc together and post it here hopefully by the end of this week. "
Lance,
I'm looking forward to you prop making thread my old friend. I'll need a prop for my OKGB Nieuport 28 so the timing just great.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Brilliant work on the propellers Bertl, could you please let us know what brand of coloured pencil you use and the colours you prefer, many thanks.
Des.
I just stumbled across this old thread and am amazed at the effects achieved with pencils, especially Bertl's. Unless I missed something, I don't see an answer to Des' question about what brand of pencils were used. I'd love to see more information on recommended brands, colours, and other details on this technique.
Thanks in advance,
Eric
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I use Derwent, they are water-soluble.
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file-92.jpg)
Bertl uses Staedtler I think.
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I used Faber-Castell for the props.
Sorry, I must have overlooked the question of Des.
Please scroll down to post No.:238 on the link below, Eric
http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3195.225
Thats the one I was thinking of. Thanks :)
James
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I use Derwent, they are water-soluble.
Bertl uses Staedtler I think.
Hi Bo,
Your prop looks great!
Thanks for the quick reply. I found both Derwent and Staedtler watercolor pencils on Amazon so will get a few and start experimenting. Do you use them wet or dry? For the few times I've done wood grain I've always used oils but masking and painting the prop lamination is a royal pain. The pencil technique intrigues me and appears to be a much better way of doing it.
Thanks again!
Eric
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I used Faber-Castell for the props.
Sorry, I must have overlooked the question of Des.
Please scroll down to post No.:238 on the link below, Eric
http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3195.225
Excellent! That is exactly what I wanted to see. Thanks Bertl!
Eric
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Hi Bo,
Your prop looks great!
Thanks for the quick reply. I found both Derwent and Staedtler watercolor pencils on Amazon so will get a few and start experimenting. Do you use them wet or dry? For the few times I've done wood grain I've always used oils but masking and painting the prop lamination is a royal pain. The pencil technique intrigues me and appears to be a much better way of doing it.
Thanks again!
Eric
Eric, Bertl is the master of this technique, so be sure to pay much more attention to his advice and tutorial than anything I have to say. I use the Derwents wet and dry, draw with them dry and then go back with a slightly damp brush to smooth / blend / make corrections etc. Or in worst case, wash it all off and start over.