forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Allan31 on December 29, 2022, 07:18:57 AM
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In an effort to improve my airbrush streaking, this was calling me...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2022-12-28T153656.142.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2022-12-28T153656.142.jpeg)
You all know the kit so no more need be said about that.
I got the kit off Evilbay for cheap, already started and sans decals.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2022-12-28T153648.806.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2022-12-28T153648.806.jpeg)
Hard to find aftermarket decals that have the white border on the crosses. I will have to resort to the Paddinghaus sheet again. This time I found an additional sheet that has much better stenciling.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2022-12-28T153642.158.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2022-12-28T153642.158.jpeg)
Many interpretations on the www as to the yellow areas of this aircraft. All we have, to my knowledge, are the photos taken when he crashed.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.37.45_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.37.45_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.36.55_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.36.55_PM.png)
At first glance, the upper wing does look yellow but rooting around the www gives us better photos that shows more accurately the upper wing.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.35.50_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.35.50_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.37.07_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.37.07_PM.png)
For some reason, the upper wing does seem lighter in color than the two wings below it but it is streaked for sure. I wondered, knowing how terrible yellow covers, if it was just a bad coat of paint but comparing to how well the yellow was applied to the turtle back and rudder, I'm thinking it's green streaking.
These shots shows exactly where the yellow is on the fuselage sides.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.44.32_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.44.32_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.43.17_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.43.17_PM.png)
Few examples are out there that show the correct streaking and yellow areas as I'm thinking they should be. I did find one shining example of a beautifully executed Lothar triplane. Coincidently, this was done by a frequent roamer of these hallowed forum halls.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_6.19.50_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_6.19.50_PM.png)
Nice job Rick. Clearly, RAGIII has no need for my airbrush streaking.
And to sweeten the deal, these arrived from Paul at Model Cellar.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2022-12-28T153726.049.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2022-12-28T153726.049.jpeg)
I can work with the interior, not much seen anyway. The figures in the much smaller scale are better matched to my speed and figure painting skills. Flesh color, wash of brown, BaDaBing, done, Fuhgeddaboudit...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.59.16_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.59.16_PM.png)
'till later...
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Great project, and I’m keenly interested to follow along, Allan. That 1/48 scale figure set is something I’ve had sitting on the shelf for a while, and I’m anxious to see how your project progresses.
Cheers,
Gary
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This should be another Fun and informative thread to follow. Like I said elsewhere, You guys are Killing Me with all of these Triplanes. ::)
I am getting more certain everyday that another will have to be built 8) I am really looking forward to your build and figures!
RAGIII
PS: Thanks for the plug ;D
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Nice score on the Eduard Tripe! Wish they would re-release it. Last I saw Revell had it. Looking forward to your well researched Lothar build and the figure.
Steve
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Looking forward to seeing this unfold, especially any refinements you can add to your innovative streaking method.
Yes Rick really nailed the pattern on that 1/32 Tripe!
Happy new year
Richie
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Some progress. Seems nobody can agree on exactly what was yellow and what wasn't on Lothar's tripe.
The usually well researched Aviattic site lets you decide yourself...
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-31_at_2.47.37_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-31_at_2.47.37_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.43.17_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.43.17_PM.png)
Comparing the background colors around the crosses I'm still going with option three on the right.
A first for me, I found these a few months ago and figured I would give them a try.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T121734.107.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T121734.107.jpeg)
Some I could not use as this kit was already started but what I could use, I think looks great, most especially the belts, they even have the stitching on them. I also used the ignition switch, throttle lever and ammo counter.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T121745.250.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T121745.250.jpeg)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T121756.399.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T121756.399.jpeg)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T121810.000.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T121810.000.jpeg)
And of course, all covered up.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T161209.099.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-02T161209.099.jpeg)
Some more clean up tonight and then everything in fine white primer.
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I didn't know the wizards at Quinta had done so much, what a set!
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Great progress on your Dr1. I also had No Idea Quinta was doing so much! As for the Yellow, Richard Alexander of WNW had some really good photos of this Bird. Some you have published here. I had a lot of discussion with him concerning the colors. He actually thought there "May" have been a band of another color in front of the cross :D Note that the serial number is not visible in any photo I know of! So My thought here was that LvR took an aircraft with a previous band marking. He had it removed leaving some thin streaking. Had he Not been shot down the rest of the areas often thought to be yellow probably would have been :o JMHO, and Prove Me wrong 8)
RAGIII
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Really nice progress. Quinta and the other 3D printers may make a lot of fiddly p.e. obsolete!....I still like option 1 - yellow ahead of the cross. My one good eye has convinced me that area has a distinct edge that lines up with the top colour.
Steve
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I was a commercial illustrator, muralist and house painter for years and I know how badly yellow covers. It is almost always translucent. A base coat of white is always required to get a sold coverage of yellow.
One thing that has struck me looking carefully at the photos of Lothar's aircraft is the total absence of streaking on the turtle back and horizontal stabilizer.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.44.48_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.44.48_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.36.55_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.36.55_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.37.45_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.37.45_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.42.06_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.42.06_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.43.17_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-16_at_2.43.17_PM.png)
What is not helping us at all is the fact that the the right side in all these photos is in shade. let's assume for a moment that the area between the cross and rudder was painted yellow as so many have presented it. In the above photos, the area behind the cross looks very similar to the area in front of the cross to the cockpit combing. Sadly, like my streaking examples, this can look different from photo to photo depending on the quality of the print when made.
When we look at the same section of fuselage on the left side in full sun this area we think is yellow looks much more opaque.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.35.50_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.35.50_PM.png)
The area in front of the cross does have a similar grey tone to the rudder as does the area behind the cross.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.37.07_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_5.37.07_PM.png)
The area that we want to be yellow in front of the cross is almost the same width as the cross itself if it's lining up with the yellow on top. That is not what is happening in the photo above.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_6.19.50_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-26_at_6.19.50_PM.png)
Thanks for reading along this far but for all that said....we have accomplished nothing really.
I race vintage Formula Fords. We have a standing joke if we can't decide what color to paint the wheels, pick your two favorites and put one on one side and the other on the other side as we can't ever see both sides at the same time.......
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-31_at_2.47.37_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2022-12-31_at_2.47.37_PM.png)
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(https://i.ibb.co/Y2CPMM0/lothar-dr1-facebookwingnutwingsfans.jpg)
Hopefully this image link works.
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Ol' one eye is starting to change his mind.....option 3 looks more likely...
Steve
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Ha !!!, great set of photos. Who did these and where did they come from???
I have never seen the middle two, sometimes orthochromatic film CAN be helpful !!
Option 3 it is for me, that is pretty finite. So I would 100% agree with Rick's interpretation on his build.
Perhaps there was a stripe or other graphics on the plane, I don't think it would have physically been "removed" but rather just painted over. To that end, it may have been painted over with a similar base color, hence the fresh looking area in front of the cross that would cover over lettering.
Whew....
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Ha !!!, great set of photos. Who did these and where did they come from???
I have never seen the middle two, sometimes orthochromatic film CAN be helpful !!
Option 3 it is for me, that is pretty finite. So I would 100% agree with Rick's interpretation on his build.
Perhaps there was a stripe or other graphics on the plane, I don't think it would have physically been "removed" but rather just painted over. To that end, it may have been painted over with a similar base color, hence the fresh looking area in front of the cross that would cover over lettering.
Whew....
Those photos were done by Richard Alexander of WNW and posted on Face Book. They were the reason for My PM and discussion with him while doing my build.
RAGIII
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Thanks Rick, accuracy is important and research is fun....
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I'm liking the streaking technique but I thought I could improve in several areas on MvR's 152/17. To that end I'm doing Lothar's tripe.
I used my Fokker blue on the bottoms and experimented with Vallejo Med. Yellow out of the bottle. I think it's a little lemony.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-05T155351.362.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-05T155351.362.jpeg)
On 152 I learned it was difficult to hold and shoot. I made this little easel that worked perfect.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T163959.029.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T163959.029.jpeg)
Started with the bottom wing.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164013.178.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164013.178.jpeg)
I found it difficult to figure out where I was on the wing while painting so the mid wing I pre-streaked.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164025.396.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164025.396.jpeg)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164033.057.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164033.057.jpeg)
Much easier.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164039.770.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164039.770.jpeg)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164048.764.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164048.764.jpeg)
I think I can get away with even more pre-streaking.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164106.092.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164106.092.jpeg)
Easel worked well for holding the fuselage as well.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164056.720.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164056.720.jpeg)
I used a different green than the factory for the field corrections.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164113.003.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164113.003.jpeg)
I warmed up the yellow with a touch of red.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164121.722.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_-_2023-01-06T164121.722.jpeg)
Future next then.....well you know the drill....
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Great low tech system and equally great display of how you use it! This is both inspiring and looking really great.
/Fredrik
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Fantastic results Allan! I’m very impressed with how simple this plan is. I think the pre streaking helps a lot. I’ll try to make a 1/72 mask.
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Colours look good and your process is definitely a success although I think your thumb isn't streaky enough and the blue carries up over the cuticle.....
Steve
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Very well done Allan, I believe you've really developed the ultimate method of the Fokker streaked finish application. Makes me want to redo my "tripes' however I'll be trying it on a D.VII soon, very impressive!
Cheers,
Lance
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It's always nice to learn something new. Thanks alot Allan for showing this great technique.
Alan.
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Fantastic result Allan, it's great to see your technique evolving into what I believe will become the 'go to' method for Fokker streaking.
Richie
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Excellent results! You already know I Love Your streaking method. One thing to note is that all of those Fokkers differed in the streaking. The wings in particular when photos are available show an individual "Foot Print". Ed Boll has perfected catching nuances of individual aircraft. So just be sure that as you perfect your method you figure out a way to replicate individual Airframes. JMHO, and I Love Your Results!!
RAGIII
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Thanks all for the encouragement.
This build is again, a test bed for this technique. To Rick's comment, I was not so much trying to replicate Lothar's aircraft specifically as I was trying to master how best to handle the lights and darks that appear in the streaking on individual aircraft. The pre-streaking was a big help establishing the light and dark areas, then add the individual streaks over those areas. What I discovered is a good streak seems more realistic if it starts solid at the front of the wing and fades out towards the rear as opposed to a solid streak front to back as can be seen in a couple of places. But sometimes a solid works as well.
I REALLY think this technique will be a bonus in 1/72 scale. In that scale, a real brush streak or stroke is just too thick and out-of-scale. Conversely, it may not work as well or even be needed in 1/32 or 1/24 or 28 scale as RAGIII, Boll and many others have so deftly illustrated that real brush strokes work perfectly well.
All this testing is towards a third build. You recall I put a shout out for Voss decals in 1/48 scale. Kit and decals are here and with a well documented aircraft with well documented streaking, hopefully I can figure this all out to see if we can make it controllable enough to replicate individual aircraft.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2023-01-07_at_9.08.47_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2023-01-07_at_9.08.47_PM.png)
not sure whats going on under the horizontal stabilizer.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2023-01-07_at_9.20.55_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2023-01-07_at_9.20.55_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2023-01-07_at_9.07.39_PM.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2023-01-07_at_9.07.39_PM.png)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2023-01-08_at_7.35.32_AM_9RuF2kYpy5A7GDu4z2s7Kr.png) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/Screen_Shot_2023-01-08_at_7.35.32_AM_9RuF2kYpy5A7GDu4z2s7Kr.png)
More soon...
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This is looking really great Allan! I may have to try this on my next Tripe. I may have missed it, but what are you using for your blue underside color, I really like it.
Warren
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Fokker Blue....
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=13446.0
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Fokker Blue....
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=13446.0
D'oh! I remember you posting that now. :)
Warren
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All finished, will post over in "Completed" soon, Thanks for all your encouragement !!
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_(95)_n56f79Hj9mBXWYv5G4ET5z.jpeg) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/jj307/Allanscott31/thumbnail_(95)_n56f79Hj9mBXWYv5G4ET5z.jpeg)
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Very well done, Alan. Stunning result in all regards - especially the streaked camo.
Cheers,
Gary
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Nicely Done! I Look forward to F1/103 8)
RAGIII
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Oh yeah! That looks just gorgeous!
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That came out great!!
Steve
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Verrrrry nice!
:)
Cheers
Syd