forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: masterKamera on May 02, 2022, 02:30:42 PM
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https://modelexpo-online.com/wood-sheets-for-modeling
Im just awfully curious here. Alot of you guys have spent years figuring out realistic wood grain painting. I wont lie about it, some of you do pretty damned good work, others are well causing performance envy at painting time in everyone else.
I have to ask this question, above i linked to average quality sheet wood for modelling. The thinnest they do is 1/32 thickness, but in model ship kits i have seen single sheet plywood, and 3 layer plywood comprised of wood veneer that is 1/32 or less.
It is rather common to use parts cut from it to make a lackluster kit seem to be of quality.
But the question is, whats going to be more difficult. To master the art of painting wood grain on plastic, or to master the art of attaching actual, super thin wood to a plastic kit? Saw someone on here do a 1/32 scale nieuport with the cockpit side removed as a "musuem exhibit diorama" that makes me think the wood sheet might be better.
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My experience with modelling woodgrain has been this method suggested by Wingnut Wings. It's simple, requires minimal expenditure for new tools etc, and is (to me at least) easy and satisfying as well as ending up with a great result:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52046371849_613d08ba79_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2niag5M)32002 1-32 LVG C.VI painting wood grain hints and tips (https://flic.kr/p/2niag5M) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
Some examples of my work done using this method in 1/32:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51041269406_ccc5d1a73f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kLkR9j)20bd1449-e9e6-4e18-8cd5-a845172a7c40_zpsxqldrriu_34840093884_o (https://flic.kr/p/2kLkR9j) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51040497438_0c4edc6eb2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kLgTEw)wingnut-wings-132-sopwith-pup-rfc_50555623408_o (https://flic.kr/p/2kLgTEw) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51041228901_0ac5db824c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kLkD6X)wingnut-wings-132-sopwith-pup-rfc_50556356271_o (https://flic.kr/p/2kLkD6X) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52024411592_3c98afed3e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ngdH4E)Wingnut Wings 1/32 Sopwith Pup (https://flic.kr/p/2ngdH4E) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
And in 1/72:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51040502038_5079848e33_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kLgV2Q)roden-172-albatros-dii-zk-jnb_50581526197_o (https://flic.kr/p/2kLgV2Q) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51969911566_90b646bec6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nbpo73)Roden 1/72 Albatros D.II replica ZK-JNB (https://flic.kr/p/2nbpo73) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
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In My opinion Zac has it correct. Frank ( Bughunter) uses real wood in 1/48th scale for certain parts like struts, axle wings, props, etc. but if you are talking of "Skinning" things like the fuselage it is not practical. I think you have mentioned 1/72nd scale is your current choice. If so then a Very Minimal amount of grain, just a hint of light and dark is most appropriate ( IMHO) Then again I am of the "Less is Best" School. Oils, pencils and acrylics can all be used to represent the grain. You will need to experiment and find your comfort zone. I like oils but that is My choice!
RAGIII
1/32nd Albatros:
(https://s20.postimg.cc/lpb5tt9ul/DSCF7838.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/a0765tvql/DSCF7841.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/qnyo8by7x/DSCF7843.jpg)
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managed to get some of that tamiya xf-59 ordered.
Never thought places could be so.,,,, mercenary on pricing. Got it for 6$ for two of the 23ml bottles TOTAL... the only place on Amazon selling that color wants 8$ a bottle.. and 6$ shipping each..
I can see why Tamiya and Vallejo are popular..
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Masterkamera, Tamiya airbrushes beautifully ( I recommend either their thinner or Mr. Hobby Leveling Thinner, aka "unicorn tears"), but hand brushes horribly. It's like it hates its self. If you want to hand brush, you'll need to thin it, and Tamiya has also released a retarder to use with it for hand brushing.
Didn't mean to be a butt-insky, but I remember trying to brush this stuff, hating it, and thinking "how can people be fans of this crap?" I expectd paint to behave as it did in my younger years when all we had was Testors, Pactra, and Floquil.
Anyway, YMMV, HTH!
WD
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Masterkamera, Tamiya airbrushes beautifully ( I recommend either their thinner or Mr. Hobby Leveling Thinner, aka "unicorn tears"), but hand brushes horribly. It's like it hates its self. If you want to hand brush, you'll need to thin it, and Tamiya has also released a retarder to use with it for hand brushing.
Didn't mean to be a butt-insky, but I remember trying to brush this stuff, hating it, and thinking "how can people be fans of this crap?" I expectd paint to behave as it did in my younger years when all we had was Testors, Pactra, and Floquil.
Anyway, YMMV, HTH!
WD
weee more chemicals to look into. Not buying the right chemicals is the cause of misery when it comes to developing film at home, so paint shouldnt be that far away
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Masterkamera, Tamiya airbrushes beautifully ( I recommend either their thinner or Mr. Hobby Leveling Thinner, aka "unicorn tears"), but hand brushes horribly. It's like it hates its self. If you want to hand brush, you'll need to thin it, and Tamiya has also released a retarder to use with it for hand brushing.
Didn't mean to be a butt-insky, but I remember trying to brush this stuff, hating it, and thinking "how can people be fans of this crap?" I expectd paint to behave as it did in my younger years when all we had was Testors, Pactra, and Floquil.
Anyway, YMMV, HTH!
WD
weee more chemicals to look into. Not buying the right chemicals is the cause of misery when it comes to developing film at home, so paint shouldnt be that far away
Exactly. When I came back the term "acrylic" meant water-based to me. Oh no. It's so much more than that. I found the paint chemistry conversations on the Sprue Cutter's Union podcasts a tremendous help, not to mention they're a funny group of guys. There is, however, adult language involved, so if that offends, well . . .
WD
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Masterkamera, Tamiya airbrushes beautifully ( I recommend either their thinner or Mr. Hobby Leveling Thinner, aka "unicorn tears"), but hand brushes horribly. It's like it hates its self. If you want to hand brush, you'll need to thin it, and Tamiya has also released a retarder to use with it for hand brushing.
Didn't mean to be a butt-insky, but I remember trying to brush this stuff, hating it, and thinking "how can people be fans of this crap?" I expectd paint to behave as it did in my younger years when all we had was Testors, Pactra, and Floquil.
Anyway, YMMV, HTH!
WD
weee more chemicals to look into. Not buying the right chemicals is the cause of misery when it comes to developing film at home, so paint shouldnt be that far away
Exactly. When I came back the term "acrylic" meant water-based to me. Oh no. It's so much more than that. I found the paint chemistry conversations on the Sprue Cutter's Union podcasts a tremendous help, not to mention they're a funny group of guys. There is, however, adult language involved, so if that offends, well . . .
WD
if "adult language" offends you,, well lets say 1:72 scale planes are to be avoided
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Tamiya [...] but hand brushes horribly. It's like it hates its self. If you want to hand brush, you'll need to thin it, and Tamiya has also released a retarder to use with it for hand brushing.
Didn't mean to be a butt-insky, but I remember trying to brush this stuff, hating it, and thinking "how can people be fans of this crap?"
To add to the debate/confusion, I've been brushpainted unadulterated Tamiya acrylics since I was six and have only encountered one problem: in the last two years I've noticed a change in XF-62 Olive Drab where all of a sudden the paint changes colour and composition once it gets to the last 1/3rd of a bottle
Otherwise for the last decade-plus online, people have praised my work and can't believe it's done with a brush. Humbly I present some evidence in 1/72:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51970199204_01bf114cc8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nbqRBj)Roden 1/72 Pfalz D.III (https://flic.kr/p/2nbqRBj) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51969911566_90b646bec6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nbpo73)Roden 1/72 Albatros D.II replica ZK-JNB (https://flic.kr/p/2nbpo73) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51297108156_6dcc95cbd7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m9X66f)Airfix 1/72 Spitfire Mk.Ia “What If?” RNZAF (https://flic.kr/p/2m9X66f) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51598987940_860891d4ce_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mBCir7)Xtrakit 1/72 Spitfire PR.23 (https://flic.kr/p/2mBCir7) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51819993887_bebea9db93_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mXa1Nt)Airfix 1/72 Wildcat "Sock Scheme" (https://flic.kr/p/2mXa1Nt) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
and in 1/48:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51040537323_7ec7528ac7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kLh6wc)55b925a7-9898-49cd-ad8b-5703d83fd8bc_zpswgl1nfkj_35681074475_o (https://flic.kr/p/2kLh6wc) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51041357012_aaa49c7c06_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kLmibL)36337767681_9255d9e865_o (https://flic.kr/p/2kLmibL) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51041263971_15ecd91a3e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kLkPwB)35635939024_50a88bb923_o (https://flic.kr/p/2kLkPwB) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51041353962_c8c0b4c6c4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kLmhhb)46208830014_2f71eaf368_o (https://flic.kr/p/2kLmhhb) by Zac Yates (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zacyates/), on Flickr
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Masterkamera, LOL! You are so right! I just thought I'd warn you, evidently some listeners like listening with their kids/grandkids, and they had to put a warning on the front end of their podcasts to the effect of "If adult language, d**k jokes, and locker room humor offend you, get on your bike and head home". :) I hate to sound like such a fan-boy, but I always come away from every one of their podcasts with either some new knowledge I can apply to my modeling work, or a new way to approach it, think about it, etc.
Zac, I have never been able to get Tamiya paint to "behave", at least in the way I expect/remember paint behaving back in the 70's. Your madness may vary. ;)
WD
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im more enjoying the fact that the airfix callout to paint my bristol bulldog would cost me 35.00 in humbrol paint if purchased from their website.. or that it would cost 28.00 to paint the eindecker..
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Hi MasterKamera
This thread has evolved a little from the original question re simulating wood grain, but I think it's important to be familiar and comfortable with a preferred paint type and brand before you embark on the more complex task of simulating wood grain with paint.
Paint preference is like all aspects of modelling- very much down to the individual's choice. Some only work in enamels, others in acrylics. It's even more complex when you are a brush or airbrush painter.
I've been a brush painter since about 1957 and despite what others may say, I find Tamiya acrylic paint very difficult to work with and most unsatisfying in the final result. My experience of brushed Tamiya acrylics is that they delivered thick, visible brush marks and a finish that looked like I smothered the model in glossy house paint. Okay for small details, not for large surfaces.
The best brushable paints I found were Humbrol enamels (old formula) and now the Humbrol acrylics. Also Vallejo Model Color and Citadel/ Foundation range. They all thin with water, brush nicely and don't look like house paint.
Here's some examples from over the years - all brush painted in either Humbrol enamels or Humbrol acrylic and/ or Vallejo.
(https://i.postimg.cc/P5ngRDcS/finished-july-13-2019.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrbLwdgK/20170921-185431.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cH1yt9gd/20200614-202339.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0nMfvkr/se5-3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CKhZytC9/phonix-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/DyWYgTrG/Be-6.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PfS58m9T/SE5a-side-view-1-16-Nov.jpg)
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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What Dave said. :D
WD
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With humbrol enamels gone now, and how hard it is to get color charts that seem accurate, wood graining actually seems to be the "easy" aspect of painting a model plane.
Choosing a paint line to stick with is an altogether nasty business when you are starting out from zero. Far to many companies, like vallejo, give extremely nice little educational how to sections on "how to paint the glowing power crystal in a wizard statue" that requires 5 bottles of paint that you never need for anything else.
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MasterKamera
Your comment 'with Humbrol enamels gone now" confuses me. I don't know where you are based but Humbrol enamels are among the easiest to find either via hobby shops or through mail order options.
Your concerns about finding a paint line are, with respect, over-thinking the problem. Its not that difficult.
Unfortunately these days as people use Forum names only with no indication of where you are based, it makes it difficult for us to help steer you to an affordable paint source. On that basis I suggest you check out local toy or hobby/ craft stores for paints, and then online mail order in your country or Ebay or similar in your country.
If, for example you live in Australia and buy paint mail order from America, you will pay a fortune in postage. Buy local wherever possible for the cheapest option. Many hobby shops do a 'free postage for sales over $XX value". I often buy paint in bulk like this and get free postage. Buy one tin of paint from America and it costs more in postage than the kit you are going to paint it on.
As for which paint to get, buy an assortment of primary colours, e.g. black, white, yellow, red etc. Then check each model's instructions booklet- almost all recommend specific paint brands and colours for their kits. Build up a stock of these colours and over time you will assemble a 'library' of all the key paints you will need.
Also a good brush finish depends on good paint and good brushes. Buy some quality brushes from hobby or art/ craft shops. They will give you years of service and ensure a smooth, blemish free surface.
As for colour charts, they are very subjective and can vary depending on who compiled them. Google can help.
So, short version- look at the instructions of the kit you want to make then find the colours they recommend. Buy from as local a source as possible to keep postage costs down.
As said earlier, some brands are easier to find/ use than others. Find the paint brand that you like/ can afford and are happy to use then build up your stocks of paint. Over time you will have a good stock of paint to cover future builds.
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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re: oils for wood grain
I've done this for awhile and love the results. I have on my latest build encountered a couple of surprises. The oil rubbed off due to two different things. First, it was on top of a base coat of acrylic that had thoroughly dried. I think I used Andrea acrylics under this, which are like Vallejo.
I put the oil down, W&N artist oils, brushed out to the end I wanted and was quite happy. Let it dry for a week. Tested it with a paper towel and then a gloved finger and it seemed quite dry. It was on a side panel for an Eduard camel and I had to squeeze it to get the top panel down firmly and some of it (on one side only) smudged off! So, a week later and I'm touching up the join between the top panel and the rear fuselage by adding some perfect plastic putty. Next day I realize I need to clean a little bit off the top panel so a little damp q-tip and it smudges that off too! What's up with that?
So, after you get the result you want with the oil, how do you protect and preserve it?
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Phil,
I use the oils over acrylic method often. Some key points for me are:
1. Delay painting the “ woodwork “ till the last possible time.
2. After the oils have dried, apply at least two coats of clear “varnish “ and allow to thoroughly dry before handling. I use Future floor
Polish.
3. Minimize handling as much as possible
4. The varnish sheen can be toned down with clear flat coat if desired.
5. Avoid masking over this finish!
The clear coating is key to preventing any smudge or paint removal from handling the finish.
HTH
Tim
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Would adding one part Winsor Newton Original Liquin medium to two parts oil paint result in a harder surface less likely to smudge?
Artists' oils alone dry by slowly oxidizing with the surrounding air which can take more than one week.
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Herman,
I’m not sure about the liquin. I’m not familiar with it.
Even after several weeks dry time I’ve found the WN oil paint can easily be rubbed off without some kind of protection.