forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Brad Cancian on January 16, 2022, 06:07:46 PM

Title: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on January 16, 2022, 06:07:46 PM
Hi everyone,

Firstly, apologies for my likely misuse / mis-spelling in the title! I had a play with a bit of a 'what if' concept this afternoon, one that i've had in my mind for a little while now. I got the idea when I saw the markings of Rudolf Klimke's Jasta 27 machine with the big yellow anchor emblazoned upon it. Not sure why, but when I saw that I thought the Fokker Dr1 would look kinda cool as a sea plane, in Marine livery (light blue, hex lozenge upper surfaces, etc). I imagined some sleek floats, maybe a vertical stabiliser for lateral stability, possibly a twin row oberursel engine, and maybe only a single Spandau due to weight. The idea was that the Fokker would be used as a coastal defence interceptor and fighter.

Anyways, I had a play this afternoon and completed the basis for a fun little conversion, to bring this probably silly idea to life:

(https://i.imgur.com/ZNUlluq.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/8fiEODl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jiwHk8K.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/fR29cgz.jpg)

I used the Eduard Dr1, and some (sufficiently heavy) spare resin floats from (I think) an old Hanriot HD2. Struts are brass rod. I'll likely fill and sand around the struts once I am happy with it all. The stabiliser was quickly scratched up from plastic card, and the whole thing tacked together to assess the 'look' of the idea.

So, very early days, but I think it looks  interesting :)  What do you think? (This is where I find out that there was actually a prototype or something of this thing...!)

Cheers,

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Dave W on January 16, 2022, 06:31:57 PM
Well that's the most unique Triplane I've seen on the Forum so far Brad. What a great idea and it's looking really realistic too.

Most imaginative!

cheers

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Dirigible-Al on January 17, 2022, 12:15:17 AM
The great thing about 'What If' subjects is you cannot be wrong on anything. I think a Dr.1 float plane is a great idea, better still in lozenge. Can't wait to see where this goes.
Alan
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: KiwiZac on January 17, 2022, 03:53:39 AM
What a brilliantly inspired idea!! Fantastic! I don't think I've ever seen any Great War Fokker on floats, let alone a Dreidecker. Brilliant!

The great thing about 'What If' subjects is you cannot be wrong on anything.
Precisely! And I love it when people think practically such as with the added dorsal fin. My start in posting my models online was largely inspired by the What If? Modellers forum, where I've been a member since I was a teenager so I do love a good Whif.

That said, the float struts do look a tad long to me - but that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: PrzemoL on January 17, 2022, 05:46:36 AM
It is an interesting modeling exercise, no doubt about it. I am really looking forward to se the final result. Even if I am quite sceptical about the idea of what-if models in general.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Dave Brewer on January 17, 2022, 09:16:29 AM
This is really cool Brad, she's going to be striking in that livery.
Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Alexis on January 17, 2022, 10:04:55 AM
I like the idea , was thinking the same thing a fews back so I'm looking forward on seeing this come to life . Was even planning on doing a Pfalz D.III/a as one .


Alexis
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: andonio64 on January 17, 2022, 05:53:33 PM
Brad, I love the idea and WhIf modeling is actually my second passion, I am in the Beyond The Sprues Forum as well.
I love your build so far!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Brad Cancian on January 17, 2022, 06:05:07 PM
Thanks all for the feedback on this concept - much appreciated!

Whilst it is nice that I can't really get this one 'wrong', I will take the feedback on board re the strut lengths and decide if I want to shorten them up a little bit. The difficulty with the Triplane is that she is quite a 'tall' bird, so if the struts are too short she'll look oddly 'squat'. She could stand to come down maybe 5-10mm though without too many problems, I think? Thoughts?

(https://i.imgur.com/sKzoiv9.jpg)

Thanks also Prez for the comment re what-if's; I am more than happy to move this one into the 'world of scale modeling' sub forum if that's where folks think it sits better?

Alexis - i do also like the idea of a Pfalz on floats - that'd be a sleek looking machine as well in some Marine livery!

Cheers,

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: PrzemoL on January 17, 2022, 09:41:02 PM
I think that the float struts length should be dictated more by technical than aesthetical arguments. The issue here would be the protection of engine and propeller from salt water with large enough gap.

And as for the proper forum section for this thread - me, I do not mind it being here, but it is the admin team who should decide ;-)
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Dirigible-Al on January 17, 2022, 09:57:52 PM
Perhaps if you went in-between the two lengths pictured it would satisfy both arguements.
Alexis should make a Pfalz Triplane on floats.
Alan.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Wolf on January 17, 2022, 10:29:13 PM
If you compare it with contemporary waterplanes, I think the left one look s better.

Nice and interesting what if.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Bughunter on January 17, 2022, 11:25:20 PM
Brad, that is a nice and creative project!

Firstly, apologies for my likely misuse / mis-spelling in the title!
Nearly correct! you should write "See" with capital S  :D

Now some technical comment:
I would put the floats in the forward position.
Some time ago I build here the Sopwith Schneider (https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=10864). The development has a nice history (more and drawings to be found in the Windsock Datafiles):
A Tabloid was equipped with a 100hp Gnome Monosoupape engine and a large central float as well as two supporting floats on the wings, in order to take part in the "Schneider Cup" for seaplanes in Monaco. On 31 March 1914, at Southampton, pilot Howard Pixton (who had just recovered from a severe cold) attempted a test flight. After he opened the throttle, the plane immediately flipped over and the pilot was thrown out of the cockpit into the icy waters of the Hamble River!
The aircraft was salvaged, the central float separated into two parts and these reattached much further forward. The support floats were removed. On 8 April, Pixton flew it successfully and on 20 April, this aircraft, which became famous as the "Sopwith Schneider", won the Cup in Monaco.

So with a forward position you will be on the safe side.

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: kensar on January 18, 2022, 12:44:52 AM
I think the shorter struts still look too long, but I also think Przemol is right - technical considerations would dictate the length.  I would consider the length of the prop.  Also, if the struts are tall, the plane would be inclined to flip over when the throttle was opened.  This could be offset by moving the struts forward, but this also has a limit as it effects the center of gravity.  Sorry if I am over thinking this, but I'm an engineer.   :)
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Dirigible-Al on January 18, 2022, 02:20:49 AM
I appreciate everyone's opinions on how long and where they should be but I have two points to make. Firstly the manufacturers often got it wrong themselves and had to make adjustments on future production aircraft. The second is probably the most valid, we build these planes for fun. If you get too anal on details the fun can be lost.
Alan.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: Alexis on January 18, 2022, 04:05:57 AM
What looks off to me is the front tips on the floats are dipped down to much . Set the angle of that higher , Shorten the struts by 3.5 mm . And perhaps the tail plane for the F.1 with the curved leading edge . I take it this is 48 scale ?

Okay , I'm no engineer , not even good at math to be honest but at mark one eye  ;)


Alexis
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on January 18, 2022, 07:18:06 AM
Hi all,

Many thanks for the great inputs re the struts and floats (thanks also Frank for correcting my poor German – I have now capitalised the “S” in “see”). Hi Alexis - indeed this is 1/48 scale :)

I actually am an aeronautical engineer by training so I am slightly embarrassed that I perhaps didn’t think it through as much as I should have; I went more for looks than actual practicality! To be honest, I was thinking more so the way in which the Albatros set up the struts on the W4, which are long and fairly straight up and down:

(https://i.imgur.com/jqNt675.jpg)

That being said, that was a larger and heavier aircraft. In thinking this one through, the comments make sense regards the relationship between the engine thrust line, the centre of gravity of the aircraft, and distance to the floats (both the float centre line and centre of gravity). A bigger gap between the thrust line and the floats horizontally, and a smaller gap between the aircraft centre of gravity relative to the float centre of gravity, will indeed create a bigger rotational moment forward. The way to deal with this is to lower that gap and push the centre of gravity of the floats forward, the combination of which counters the forward rotation of the aircraft as more thrust is applied. This, in turn, necessitates the floats being angled upwards more to avoid ‘digging in’ to the water.

The Hanriot HD2 is an example of how this engineering has occurred:

(https://i.imgur.com/ORHhTLS.jpg)

The HD2 has a squat, low set and low distance between the fuselage and floats, some forward angling of the struts, and upwards angle on the floats. The squatness of this design means that these angles and relative positions of floats to fuselage don’t have to be too extreme, but they are there.

This kind of squat look would, I think, not suit the triplane aesthetically – she’s a tall aircraft so I think there’s a balance, looks wise. So somewhere in here I want to apply the adage of “if it looks right, it’ll fly right”. Accordingly, I have shortened the struts up a little, angled them further forward, and raised the incidence (angle) of the floats. I do agree this is a better look that accords a little more with some of the aforementioned engineering principles whilst still maintaining an aesthetic ‘balance’. Here it is compared with the first attempt:

(https://i.imgur.com/I8JtSGO.jpg)

Unfortunately the modified angles means that the aircraft doesn’t sit nicely all by itself on the struts, so I need to prop it up a little for the pictures, but you get the idea.

(https://i.imgur.com/mtQ02ED.jpg)

Thoughts? I may have overdone it a little, but I can still make tweaks.

Cheers,

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: kensar on January 18, 2022, 07:57:24 AM
I think your last mod is the best, but what doesn't help the looks is the floats are too pointed at the front.  Modifying them may be more effort than you want to make.

Best of luck with this.  It's a good 'what if' project.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: RAGIII on January 18, 2022, 01:20:07 PM
I absolutely love this one Brad!
RAGIII
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: bobs_buckles on January 18, 2022, 08:21:14 PM
What ever you decide I'm invested!
Good luck Brad!

Bob  ;)
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: PrzemoL on January 18, 2022, 10:42:23 PM
Brad, I think that you should rather tend to copy the layout of  Hanriot mechanics-wise, rather than taking care for aesthetics - HD is quite similar in weight, engine type and general layout to Dr.I (with exclusion of zwei  vs. drei-decker). Looking at HD I see that the potential location of the loaded plane gravity centre (somewhere between the engine and the pilot) projected vertically to the floats plane falls between the strut mounting points to the floats. In your last proposal, to my eyes the Dr.I gravity centre projects backwards, beyond the rear mount point - this would lead to extra moments applied to the struts-plane connection - in my opinion it would not work. And it does not look right to my sight - it will not fly right.  ;) Maybe you could incline the rear struts to the rear, as on Alb W.4.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on January 19, 2022, 06:30:49 PM
Hi Prez - many thanks, I certainly respect your opinion on this one!

I have continued to play, but am pretty much going to stop soon as I simply want to make a little more progress. I have decided on a twin row Oberursal UR.III, so that'll move the Centre of Gravity forward a bit more. I also butchered the struts down a little further, undid some of the forward sweep, and angled the floats down slightly more. I think i'll round off the leading point of the floats a little in any case. I can't really muck with the attachment points due to the float config. Here's where she sits now (and probably where i'll leave it. Apologies for my poor photoshopping of the cowling for the UR.III):

(https://i.imgur.com/0QyA4n3.jpg)

You can see the modifications here; lower, tweaked CofG, and what the cowling will probably look like with the twin row UR.III, etc.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ub5PudT.jpg)

Heck, if it still doesn't look right, let's just call it one of Fokker's 'unsuccessful' experiments  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/lhvC6XA.jpg)

Cheers,

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: PrzemoL on January 19, 2022, 06:34:29 PM
Brad, the current version looks spot-on to my eyes. I do not see that problem with gravity centre anymore. Go for it - it looks right, it will (would) fly right ;)
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on January 19, 2022, 06:36:37 PM
Brad, the current version looks spot-on to my eyes. I do not see that problem with gravity centre anymore. Go for it - it looks right, it will (would) fly right ;)

Thank you my friend! I shall stop my worrying and get on with the project ;)

Cheers,

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Stuart Malone on January 20, 2022, 12:41:09 AM
Brad,

I have been following along and absolutely love it.  Then again, I have a penchant for float planes.

Stuart
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on January 20, 2022, 01:26:04 AM
That's it! That's the configuration I was thinking of, bravo Brad! She looks Awesome (note the capital A for true Awesomeness).
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: hrcoleman66 on January 20, 2022, 08:37:03 AM
Hi Brad

Interesting project.

Reading through the discussion on the COG and Thrust lines etc etc, I'm reminded of discussions I had with colleagues when looking at building flying models of float planes.  My memory is a bit foggy about it now, but I seem to recall there was a necessity for negative angle of attack on the floats simply to allow them to unstick from the water on take off.  Obviously the floats need to be situated in such a way as to not prejudice the air-frames COG and Center of Lift.  But the angle of attack of the floats is just as important from the point of view of how they behave IN/ON THE WATER. 

I was building a Supermarine S6B in 1/6 scale at the time and was surprised at just how much the floats appeared to be pointing DOWN.  I was also VERY concerned about how heavy the floats would end up being and how the weight of them would affect the model in turns.  Another friend had built the same model years before, and although it got off the water fine, it stalled on the first turn and was a complete loss.

Your "Further Amendment" above "Looks" right.

Cheers,

Hugh
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on January 26, 2022, 06:02:24 PM
Not a particularly exciting update, but the 'big pieces' are getting close to coming to fruition.

I've now cleaned up the floats (well, mostly... still some spots to fix). This involved quite a bit of filling and sanding, and ultimately re-skinning of the top surface of the floats (long story, but whisky helped). I still need to add the 'ribs' and hatch(?) things that seem to pervade the tops of the floats on German float planes, but I'm yet to work out exactly what pattern i'll do for that. Any thoughts or suggestions?

I've also extended the kit cowl using heat-bent sheet styrene to accommodate the Oberursal U.III 160hp twin row rotary engine. I kept the front face of the cowling 'as is', to keep that distinct Fokker look, but tapered it back to still meet the fuselage underside at the right point. I also started construction of the engine itself, mainly to see if it would fit nicely within the cowl. The engine is from Small Stuff and so far it looks like it will look very nice when done. I've only glued the 14 cylinders to the crank case, but only after drilliing right through the middle of the crank case to allow the whole thing to be slid onto a brass tube. I did this to help with alignment; but I also mounted the engine on a single tube as i'd like it to still be able to rotate when all finished. Thankfully, it looks like it should all fit without any clearance problems:

(https://i.imgur.com/TmB9rXX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wf4JobT.jpg)

So here she roughly takes her 'final form':

(https://i.imgur.com/yqPqOdv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/amCsOsy.jpg)

Next is finishing the last few blemishes on the floats, and adding the details to the top surface, once I work out what that will look like. Then, I think I can get properly started!  ;D

Cheers,

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: PrzemoL on January 26, 2022, 06:25:26 PM
Very fine touches! It is always so in the modelling, perhaps not only, that the less attractive and most tedious tasks decide the final look. Great you are now passing over these - the final result will be the award, I am sure.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: DaddyO on January 26, 2022, 08:49:09 PM
Love how this one has developed and really enjoyed the progress so far.

Next and obvious question will be the colour scheme - naval lozenges anyone?

Paul
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on January 27, 2022, 03:00:29 AM
Brad, excellent work on the cowling - looks just like a bought one! - and the whole configuration is just perfect. I love this so, so much!!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Bughunter on January 27, 2022, 04:37:13 AM
You solved the tricky cowling problem perfectly!

That will be a very interesting model in your collection :D

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: RAGIII on January 27, 2022, 08:31:51 AM
I Must Repeat, I LOve this One Brad! Looking awesome!
RAGIII
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Alexis on January 28, 2022, 12:57:49 PM
Oh my !


Alexis
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur see!
Post by: jamieg on February 16, 2022, 05:36:50 AM
I think the shorter struts still look too long, but I also think Przemol is right - technical considerations would dictate the length.  I would consider the length of the prop.  Also, if the struts are tall, the plane would be inclined to flip over when the throttle was opened.  This could be offset by moving the struts forward, but this also has a limit as it effects the center of gravity.  Sorry if I am over thinking this, but I'm an engineer.   :)

I think the point about tipping is valid. We know that the height versus width of the Dr. 1 caused lateral tippiness on the ground, hence the wingtip skids, so I would think that the fuselage would have been kept as close to the water as practicable.

Jamie
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: lone modeller on February 16, 2022, 05:54:45 AM
Only just found this - what an interesting idea! I too am overly fond of floatplanes so this one is a winner for me.

A very interesting discussion of the engineering issues too - by engineers - so very informative for one who's mathematical skills stop at 2 x 2!

Stephen.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on February 16, 2022, 05:56:27 PM
Thanks all! :)

Only minor progress; but the Small Stuff Oberursal U.III is now done.

(https://i.imgur.com/chPbWdJ.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/0sprP9N.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4IpePey.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/qG46dlR.jpg)

This was a kit in and of itself - I counted 86 parts in total - one part for the crank case, one part for the central shaft, then six parts for each cylinder (cylinder, pushrod, pushrod sleeve, valve rocker arm, spark plug, spark plug wire)... times 14!... phew! Needless to say both my old eyes and the magnifying visor got a workout... but it is a mighty fine job that Small Stuff have done in producing such a fine resin engine.

Now I can move onto the next step - the interior.

Cheers!

BC 
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: PrzemoL on February 16, 2022, 06:19:11 PM
Great job on this tiny jewel. It will add a lot to the model, no doubt about it.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on February 17, 2022, 03:18:48 AM
Only minor progress [...] I counted 86 parts in total
:o :o It looks utterly beautiful Brad, congratulations! I'm not sure if I said it already but this build has me very excited. A fascinating concept that looks right, with a gorgeous piece of whirling metal up front. What's not to love?
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: hrcoleman66 on February 17, 2022, 07:55:14 AM
Lovely Engine Brad!

These small stuff engines are really worth the investment!

Cheers,

Hugh
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: RAGIII on February 19, 2022, 08:08:10 AM
Stunning work on the engine Brad!
RAGIII
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on March 27, 2022, 05:41:02 PM
Hi folks - very slow progress on this one, mainly due to work and other commitments.

This one was also slowed down slightly by the fact that I figured I might as well build a second Triplane while I was at it! Hehe!  ;D This one will be more of a 'straight up' build, without any make-believery.

I haven't built a 'vanilla' Dr.1 in 1/48 since building the old DML kit back in the mid 90s as a teenager (and very fond memories I still have of it too). None the less, I have quite a few Eduard tripes in the stash that have spent years waiting to be built, so I figured I might as well do a dual build.

The Eduard cockpit is quite nice out of the box. Accordingly, all I added was the hand pump on the right side of the cockpit, some throttle and gun cables to the control column, and some wires here and there. I omitted the kit gun cables (these looked odd) and the bosch starter on the left cockpit wall was also left off; I don't believe these were carried on triplanes. Here are some pics of the cockpit:

(https://i.imgur.com/sXN5zw1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K1NT4M1.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/GSl1jA8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IHbLk0Q.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/UcGLgcK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PU3rEyH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ievFy6g.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/FJVTCpi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WmtCbLV.jpg)

For the 'vanilla' triplane, I built the engine out of box (I didn't need nor want another 86-piece engine build...!  :o :o)  It's basic but it'll do:

(https://i.imgur.com/j2ja3e6.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/uGDBYHQ.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/rAMbUEO.jpg)

I also had a go at painting some props:

(https://i.imgur.com/DMeb9vg.jpg)

That will be the last update for a little while; I am moving house in a couple of weeks and the nerd cave will be packed up and re-set up in the new digs.

As always, feedback is welcomed.

Cheers!

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: PrzemoL on March 27, 2022, 06:37:59 PM
Fantastic interiors and engines. I love that wash, so well restrained in this scale.
Good luck with the house change and do not let us wait too long for the continuation
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: RAGIII on March 28, 2022, 04:42:22 AM
As always your engines, interiors, wood grain etc. are all superb Brad! Did you say these are 1/24th  ;D
RAGIII
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Dirigible-Al on March 28, 2022, 06:07:52 AM
Hi Brad
The engine for the W-DR.1 looks great but it will be a shame to bury most of it in the cowling. On researching the Pfalz monoplane with the same engine some aircraft had extra holes drilled into the side due to overheating. Just a thought but to show a little more of your handy work have you considered this modification on your one?
Alan.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on March 28, 2022, 07:51:22 AM
Mike, I love your work on the cockpits but the propellers are truly jaw-dropping! What utterly gorgeous pieces of art!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on March 28, 2022, 08:06:05 AM
Mike, I love your work on the cockpits but the propellers are truly jaw-dropping! What utterly gorgeous pieces of art!

Who's this Mike chap Zac....?  :P
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on March 29, 2022, 07:15:40 AM
Mike, I love your work on the cockpits but the propellers are truly jaw-dropping! What utterly gorgeous pieces of art!

Who's this Mike chap Zac....?  :P
Early onset dementia/forum overload, Ken!  ;D
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on May 08, 2022, 06:32:50 PM
Slow going after moving house, and re-setting up the man-cave... but, she now has some teeth  ;D 

I replaced the kit Spandaus with those from Gaspatch, in this case the Fokker version with the extended cocking handles (those flights over the north sea can be mighty cold, requiring some hefty gloves, me thinks...). These guns are beautiful, and come effectively as a single part (save the muzzles, which are separate). Ammo chutes and padding behind the gun butts are from the kit.

(https://i.imgur.com/KuhqTzm.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/TmI20Ky.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/tp0YXjB.jpg)

Otherwise, the major components have been cleaned up, soon to be prepped for some paint. The Eduard kit is such that it is best painted before all of the major assemblies come together. Here comes the fun part...!

Cheers!

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on May 09, 2022, 07:07:10 AM
I'm so excited to see you back on this one. Am I a bad man for wanting to see someone build a 1/1 example of this? It looks like it would be heaps of fun to fly!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Beto on May 09, 2022, 06:53:31 PM
Too bad Fokker didn't consider a Dr.I on floats. A C.I would also be nice... Will you put naval lozenge on it?
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on May 09, 2022, 07:35:17 PM
... Will you put naval lozenge on it?

Thanks Beto - that's the plan...  ;) 

Cheers!

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on July 09, 2022, 06:00:51 PM
Hi everyone - a long time between drinks on this project, but she now has some war paint.

First up, some pre-shading:

(https://i.imgur.com/2S8Kfh9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gFfIsM6.jpg)

Then the basic colours (letting some of the pre-shading show through), and some Aviattic naval hex lozenge over the top:

(https://i.imgur.com/PTttb7C.jpg)

Some decals, a little bit of fading, and the first round of weathering came next. The wings:

(https://i.imgur.com/hfCdG1z.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gM4mPIN.jpg)

I also re-did the floats, as I wasn't happy with my previous attempt (they were a bit wobbly and lumpy). I had lots of 'fun' getting the hex lozenge to settle over the detail...

(https://i.imgur.com/uA0s3wu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/omrNOse.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Zx3DMRW.jpg)

The fuselage, with tail and cowls roughly dry-fitted:

(https://i.imgur.com/cdCRgBO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mXJ4ViU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yQF528V.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vgzJzsq.jpg)

National markings were from the Eduard base kit, with the "8" and anchor from the spares box. The fictional serial number I made up and printed myself, using a "W" prefix to denote a seaplane. Hey, it's all artistic licence :)

Glad that I have this project to this point; I can now see the finish line (faintly, but it's there). All feedback / comments / suggestions welcomed.

Cheers!

BC

Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: macsporran on July 09, 2022, 09:09:07 PM
Hey - I didn't see the naval hex coming.
Nice touch
Sandy
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: RAGIII on July 10, 2022, 03:38:04 AM
That is Really Looking Outstanding Brad! The Machine guns are awesome and Oh My that Hex Pattern! Everything is top Notch , especially the weathering.
RAGIII
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Dirigible-Al on July 10, 2022, 08:05:47 AM
This is outstanding work.
Your comment on the hex loz on the floats reminds me of a H.B. W12 build I did a while ago and ended up hand painting them on the dam things only to see later some other people just painted the floats black. I am really glad you chose grey + hex as the scheme and think that this would most probably would have been the scheme used on such a machine.
Alan.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on July 10, 2022, 09:58:48 AM
Thanks Sandy, Rick, and Alan!

Indeed I thought about painting the floats black. I see that the Germans painted some floats in a rough black coating, but I stuck with the lighter colour. I also figured the hex lozenge would have been applied (though I must admit, I did think of a blue version of Fokker streaking... but I think that would have been a bit much).  In any case, that's the beauty of 'what if' projects; no one can tell you you're wrong! :)

Cheers again,

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on July 10, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Excellent work Brad, she's looking better with every update!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on July 10, 2022, 01:04:17 PM
Thanks Zac!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Rick_H on July 10, 2022, 09:00:02 PM
Terrific.  Looks very believable!
Rick in Seattle
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: pepperman42 on July 10, 2022, 10:08:00 PM
This is weirdly excellent. Nicely thought out and beautifully executed. I cant believe you got Aviattic decals to conform like that to the floats!! Solvents? Is a dock side scene in the future?

Steve
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on July 11, 2022, 07:07:13 AM
Thanks Rick and Steve!

Steve - I had to use copious amounts of microsol, as well as slicing the decals every which way, to get them to confirm sufficiently. It's far from perfect, but about as good as I can get, I think. Yep i've also been thinking about how i'll pose the finished product. I am thinking of scratch building some beaching gear for this one (float planes out of water without some kind of beaching equipment always look a bit odd).

Cheers!

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on July 11, 2022, 08:24:51 AM
I had to use copious amounts of microsol, as well as slicing the decals every which way, to get them to confirm sufficiently. It's far from perfect
Well you fooled me: the floats look so good I didn't give it a second thought!

I'm now sad the chances of seeing this as a 1/1 flying replica are likely nil. Such a wicked little machine!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on July 11, 2022, 06:58:02 PM
Some more progress (and arguably the 'hardest' part of the project); the floats have been rigged and mounted to the fuselage. I used epoxy, which dries slowly, in order to make sure the floats sat at the right angle to the fuselage. I think it worked out well in the end. I also have started work on some make-shift beaching gear; some trolleys which were scratch built from sheet styrene, with wheels from two CMK RFC refuelling sets, and two trestles also scratch built from strip styrene. These obviously still need to be painted up, but I am happy that these things all together produce a nice 'sit' to the model:

(https://i.imgur.com/U0UMl4o.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xUED1uy.jpg)

And the sit (with comparison to the original tests / adjustments):
(https://i.imgur.com/9tgzGmB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0QyA4n3.jpg)

Now with that hard part over, I can get to mounting the flying surfaces proper.

Cheers!

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: lcarroll on July 12, 2022, 01:24:02 AM
Magnificent Brad, and the colors are perfect! This little devil is looking less "What If" with every update, and more like "Prove it wasn't so". Very nicely done on the Beaching Gear, it really brings it all together!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: andonio64 on July 12, 2022, 01:39:26 AM
Fantastic work Brad, I agree with Zac about the way you avhieved the decals to lay on the floats... OMG!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: pepperman42 on July 12, 2022, 07:06:07 AM
Very cool!

Steve
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: RAGIII on July 12, 2022, 07:35:57 AM
Damn! That is Awesome!
RAGIII
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: PrzemoL on July 12, 2022, 08:03:11 AM
Great work.
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on July 12, 2022, 09:13:42 AM
This little devil is looking less "What If" with every update, and more like "Prove it wasn't so".
I started my internet modelling forum time with the What If? forum and this, to me, sums up my favourite kind of build and part of why this hits me so hard.

I want one. Who has some spare floats and engine in 1/48? I'll settle for 1/72!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Alexis on July 12, 2022, 03:01:07 PM
I want one as well !

That is totally flipping cool Brad !


Alexis
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Jorgo on July 12, 2022, 03:36:31 PM
A fantastic idea superbly realized in the model, just great! I admire for years the way you do weathering and shading, very realistic!

Jörg
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on July 12, 2022, 07:25:15 PM
Thank you Lance, Andonio, Steve, Rick, Zac, Alexis and Jörg! I appreciate your kind words, they really help spur me on :)

Hey Zac - I have the original set of floats that I replaced as I wasn't super happy with them... not sure you'd want them though...! A set of Hanriot floats may see you through  ;)

(https://i.imgur.com/uA0s3wu.jpg)

Cheers,

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: DaddyO on July 12, 2022, 07:34:57 PM
Love it Brad
(I'll bet applying the lozenge to the float tops was a bit of a bugger  ;D)

Paul
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: malaula on July 13, 2022, 01:40:15 AM
Hi Brad,this is soo gorgious.Funny coincidence,but not long ago I wondered what to do with all the leftovers of my floatplane builds,and had quite the same idea of a DrI on floats.Happy you did it first !
If I was a nitpicker I'd say that this little Tripe ,according to the Marinenummer 8 or 708 must have been a Rumpler Taube Floatplane or an LFG built Sablatnig SF2..
anyway,if you need a place for display,there will always be some space left on my Borkum -Dio for this little beauty  ;) ;) ;)
cheers
Matz
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Stuart Malone on July 13, 2022, 01:46:45 AM
Brad,

Glad to see these are progressing.  I love them. 

Stuart
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on July 13, 2022, 01:55:51 PM
Hey Zac - I have the original set of floats that I replaced as I wasn't super happy with them... not sure you'd want them though...! A set of Hanriot floats may see you through  ;)

(https://i.imgur.com/uA0s3wu.jpg)
I certainly wouldn't say no... ;D
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on July 13, 2022, 07:21:23 PM
Thanks Paul, Matz, and Stuart!

Hi Brad,this is soo gorgious.Funny coincidence,but not long ago I wondered what to do with all the leftovers of my floatplane builds,and had quite the same idea of a DrI on floats.Happy you did it first !
If I was a nitpicker I'd say that this little Tripe ,according to the Marinenummer 8 or 708 must have been a Rumpler Taube Floatplane or an LFG built Sablatnig SF2..
anyway,if you need a place for display,there will always be some space left on my Borkum -Dio for this little beauty  ;) ;) ;)
cheers
Matz

In all honesty Matz, I totally made up the serial number - the only thing I did was make sure I avoided the serial range of the standard Dr1s, and added a "W" for the heck of it. But that's why I love this forum, you guys are a wealth of knowledge!  ;D ;D

Cheers!

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on July 16, 2022, 06:19:07 PM
So, two thirds of the wings are now on :) Thanks to Eduard's engineering, these posed no real problems, save the area around the cockpit coaming, which didn't really want to sit down of its own accord.

(https://i.imgur.com/tLC7jJn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bmvilYI.jpg)

Hopefully the single piece struts will make mounting the top wing a little easier.

(these photos are great at showing areas that I need to go back and fix...  :-\)

Cheers,

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: pepperman42 on July 16, 2022, 11:05:26 PM
...so cool....

Steve
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: KiwiZac on July 17, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
This really gets my heart racing Brad! What a stunner!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: RAGIII on July 18, 2022, 10:49:31 PM
Amazing work Brad!
RAGIII
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Brad Cancian on July 24, 2022, 05:08:15 PM
She be done!

(https://i.imgur.com/QCMj20l.jpg)

Final pic here - https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=13225.0

Thanks to all for your kind words and support through this build!

Cheers!

BC
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: jamieg on July 25, 2022, 12:25:24 AM
Great!!!
Title: Re: Dreidecker zur See!
Post by: Umlaufmotor on August 09, 2022, 07:41:02 AM
I like this small model extraordinarily well.
It looks absolutely convincing.
Excellent work, Brad.

Servus
Bertl