forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Pre and Early 1914 Aircraft Models => Topic started by: Edo on December 11, 2021, 05:30:55 PM
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Hi friends!
It has been really a while since my last contribution to the Forum, but I hope to make myself forgiven with this new one!
I have always admired the ability of some of our fellow members to build a plane from scratch, something that also intimidated me a lot particularely if I compared my poor attempts to the results of such builders (or artist should I say) such as Des, our mentor and host.
I love his skills and the early plane he did are simply gorgeous!
I was actracted by his build of the Bleriot XI best, and I told to myself that sometimes, gathering all of my courage, I could try to emulate that wonderful build...
So the time has passed, but the world kept on tournig and "some" years later here is 3D printing!
Now it seems to me a bit like cheating, to design a part and print it, and I still have to understand if this could ever be considered as modelling or it is just another kind of hobby.... besides when I buy a kit it is just the same....so, while the question is still open (and I like to hear your thughts about it too), I bought myself a 3D resin printer, logged on a free 3D design PC software and started my project of following Des' steps and build a Bleriot XI.
I started to design the engine: thinking that if I can do this I am halfway already.
Soooo... this are the results... It seems to me they look ok but I'd like to hear from you...
ciao, Edo
this is the main engine part (rear)
(https://i.imgur.com/bl2HU0Z.jpg)
front
(https://i.imgur.com/SM9X3dH.jpg)
then there is a smaller part on the back
(https://i.imgur.com/hxHN8Rx.jpg)
and the cylinders, of course
(https://i.imgur.com/hngqZm4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ODYcJqr.jpg)
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Nice start with modern tooling!
Which scale is your build? It would be nice if can add this information to the subject please.
One day I will built the Channel crossing Bleriot in 1/48 based on a AJP kit in my stash.
We have a nice thread with reference pics here in the forum.
Cheers,
Frank
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hi Frank!
thank you for the compliments!
it will ben 1:32 ish... I am scaling down some blueprint I found on the Internet so it won’t be too precise....
cio
edo
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Looking good, 3D printing is a versatile technique and probably will take place of resin casting for scratchbuilding small to medium size details. Following, sooner or later I would like to try building a Bleriot, Des' build log still remains the best modelling reference.
In bocca al lupo!
Giuseppe
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Hey Giuseppe!
Thank you very much!
I forgot to say that, without wanting to disrupt anyone's business, but I 'd like to give back something to this wonderful community, so if anyone wants the .STL files I use for this build, please feel free to ask me and I'll send them via PM.
now, this is how the Anzani 3 cylinders engine tourned out after gluing the parts together, adding pipes and wires, and painting I hope you like it!
(https://i.imgur.com/CBxsxRw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7cTzGzD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7god6hz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yIRljKI.jpg)
ciao Edo
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That’s incredible cool, what you are doing here, Edo. This engine actually looks amazing!
Andreas
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Edo,
Very nice. How did you manage to bend the tube that smooth with such a tight radius?
Stuart
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Edo, that engine looks superb! What a beauty!
I forgot to say that, without wanting to disrupt anyone's business, but I 'd like to give back something to this wonderful community, so if anyone wants the .STL files I use for this build, please feel free to ask me and I'll send them via PM.
I may have to take you up on that some time - I have a friend with a 3D printer who is always happy to help me out.
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Assembled and painted engine is highly realistic, well done.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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hi all!
thank you for the nice words!
Stuart, it is not a pipe it is just 1,5mm copper wire. By the way, I am running low on my reserve of brass pipes (which I use for turnbuckles) as I don’t seem to find any new suppliers... so, if you have some advice it is more then welcome!
Hey, Kiwi, you are more then welcome!
I am not very skilled in 3d modelling, I just started to learn and I am not an engeneer.... I use Sketchup for designing and my projects are very basic and can sure be better. I’d like to think this build as a prototype of something that can become a community project... so, if you’d like, I can share the Sketchup files that can be modified, too.... just let me know....
ciao
edo
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As always: a little paint brings parts to life!
And sorry, forgot the link in my last answer. Lot's of info.
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12324.0
Regarding your brass pipes: if you search fro Albion Alloys it should give you some model shops (at least here in Germany).
Or is the delivery affected by the Brexit?
Cheers,
Frank
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Hey, Kiwi, you are more then welcome!
I am not very skilled in 3d modelling, I just started to learn and I am not an engeneer.... I use Sketchup for designing and my projects are very basic and can sure be better. I’d like to think this build as a prototype of something that can become a community project... so, if you’d like, I can share the Sketchup files that can be modified, too.... just let me know....
I'm very new to the building side too (eager to learn the modelling) so I think I'll follow your build and get in touch once yours is complete, so I know I'm getting the most of your work and any issues are fixed. 8)
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Really awesome! I wish I was ,smart enough to do the programming, and financially able to get a 3D printer. You are certainly showing the value and precision of what can be done with a printer! The engine looks awesome!
RAGIII
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hey RAGIII ! ideed the learning curve is a bit steep, but up untill now I managed to keep it simple, but things sure get harder if you are trying to design humans (!) or more sophisticated shapes.... maybe also the free PC program I am using are somewhat limited...
As for the price, I was lucky enought to get a win on a lottery here in Italy (a first time ever event!) but indeed it is not that much... I bought an Elegoo Mars 2 (which has 50 micron layering, so not at the hedge of thecnology) for about 150 euros on Amazon and I was shocked of how mainstream this technolgy has become...
ciao
edo
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Edo,
This looks like a very interesting project and your off to an amazing start. Will follow this one forsure.
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Hi Edo. From someone who couldn't find the switch on the printer, you have
done a steller job of the Bleriot's engine! Well done! I am looking forward to
the next installment!
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Amazing
Steve
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Hi all!
thank you again for the kind words!
I wanted to show you some update. The first one are the supports for the engine, they are 3d printed, and I have already put some paint on it, so I don't know if you can see the details very well, but I am very happy with it and the bolts tourned out very sharp... Indeed it took me 3 runs before getting it right, but I think it is ok now...
(https://i.imgur.com/MFeGG0j.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8WO1Gq9.jpg)
I'll upload some more pictures as of the completed engine section.
Then I printed the ribs for the wings, I fear the plans I am using don't have the right prophile and they also come out a little longer then it should have been, but I'll live with that (but I modified a bit the design on the PC)
(https://i.imgur.com/8i6ql48.jpg)
Lastly, as this will be a "multimedia build", I started the fusolage. It is made the old way: wood beam and monofilament for rigging. The auxiliary tank is 3d printed.
(https://i.imgur.com/7K9vO0w.jpg)
but then, the cat jumped on the table, wanting to get out. I moved to open the window and struck the tripod, my camera fell and... well... have a look...
(https://i.imgur.com/xnkeVJI.jpg)
I am not going to repeat here the world that I shouted at the cat, the window, the Heavens and myself...
let's say that now that I am more calm and I can tell the truth and admit that the fusolage was not perfecltly suqare, so this is a good opportunity to amend my previus errors... and get a laught out of it !!
ciao
Edo
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I thought I had commented before, but apparently not - excellent work here, Edo. I like how this is going.
Your incident was unfortunate, but things like that happen. I would like to see you repair and finish this great project!
It appears 3D printing will be the future of modeling, but its something I haven't delved into yet.
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That looks like one of MY builds ;D Seriously it is a shame but it seems like you have taken a good approach to dealing with the Accident. This is really looking great to date!
RAGIII
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Great work, besides the feline incident. 3D printing is very appealing and maybe a printer will be introduced in my already too long wish list. Surely would be a great iprovement over my increasing dumbness in manipulating small parts to shape missing pieces... I'm sure your rapaired fuselage will be excellent.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Interesting process. The breaks mostly look clean so righting/squaring it up should be possible.
Steve
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OUCH !
I feel your pain Edo , Blau did that too me when he was kitten . I know you will be able to make the repairs need :)
Alexis
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I'm sorry to see that Edo, I've had a few feline-induced incidents over the years but our current cats know to stick to their assigned sleeping zone on The Bench! I'm excited to see the repaired fuselage and subsequent updates.
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Hi Edo
It happened to me some years ago I bought a dye sublimation printer (expensive and no longer produced) and I also bought a pile of foils and special paper for (also expensive)I unpacked it and went to make a cup of tea. When I came back I turned the printer on and all the lights on the printer were blinking. I checked the manual and there was no mention of all lights blinking. I called the chap who sold it to me and asked him if he had any ideas, but no luck (I had tried the printer when I bought from him as I knew him well and it had worked perfectly) I did notice a funny smell from the printer so I thought i'd have a look inside. I found the problem. Pudding my cat had pissed/marked in the back of the printer directly in the power supply, apparently these printers used a high voltage and the cats "liquid" had completely destroyed the power supply (luckily for the cat the power was off when the crime was commited, other wise the consequences don't bear thinking about!!) I thought I was going to strangle the cat, but of course I had to laugh as he didn't know what he was doing (or at least I hope not) I told my friend who sold me the printer and he saw the funny side off the tale and offered me a replacement printer as I had bought so many supplies for the printer, at a super low price.
Happy New Year all
Cheers
Andrew
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I know too well animals can be dangerous to modellers but so far in my world little children (though of course you love them) can be utterly catastrophic.
Really looking forward to see the progress of your Bleriot.
Alan
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hey friends!
thank you for the support!
maybe we should open a new thread on ‘animal incursions on modeller’s life’ .....
anyway.... I have decided to redo the fusolage and I am almost to the point I was before.... so I’ll be able to show you something soon.
ciao
edo
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Hey Giuseppe!
Thank you very much!
I forgot to say that, without wanting to disrupt anyone's business, but I 'd like to give back something to this wonderful community, so if anyone wants the .STL files I use for this build, please feel free to ask me and I'll send them via PM.
now, this is how the Anzani 3 cylinders engine tourned out after gluing the parts together, adding pipes and wires, and painting I hope you like it!
(https://i.imgur.com/CBxsxRw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7cTzGzD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7god6hz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yIRljKI.jpg)
ciao Edo
Hi Edo
Could you pm the stl file please ? also which 3d printer did you print the anzani with ?
Cheers
Andrew
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Great work, Edo. What a pitty with the cat. But I have experienced that doing some things twice it makes one do them faster and better. The 3D printed parts look great. I wish I was a bit more ambitious in learning 3D Cad software to do designs by myself.
very nice,
Manni
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The engine really looks superb!
RAGIII
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I'm excited to see Fuselage v.2, Edo. I forget if I mentioned but our cats haven't done much damage on The Bench - frustratingly in the past they waited until models were on display shelves to do things like chew the tail (Airfix 1/72 Gnat) or prop (Corgi Spitfire XIV)! They have a designated sleeping spot on the bench and are generally careful if they walk on the workspace itself.
That said, I may close the room when I get to rigging the SPAD and Pup...!
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The engine really looks superb!
RAGIII
Exactly, and it triggers me to think about how to do that engine in 1/48 ::)
But I think other projects have priority ;)
Cheers,
Frank
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hi all!
thank you for the kind words!
Frank, in theory, you could just scale it down (or up) and get any scale you want.... in practice, I fear that some details will become too small compared to the printer resolution.
but you triggered my curiosity, so I’ll give it a try, just to see if it works. I’ll let ypu know how it goes....
ciao
edo
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Edo, that is very kind of you, but don't spend too much effort!
There is a white metal engine in the kit, with not very crispy details. I want also to try a method with packed washers, created on lathe, to create the cooling fins.
Cheers,
Frank
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Having to reprint the engine mounts for a design problem, I took also up Frank's challenge and see how it goes scaling the engine down to 1:48.
I printed only one cylinder, but to me it is ok... have a look and tell me what you think!
ciao
Edo
(https://i.imgur.com/6bBcf03.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Sqc5Hfa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mM2fsM6.jpg)
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I'd build that as-is, Edo, it looks excellent! And I have been thinking a 1/48 version would be good to tackle first...
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Thank you Edo for the effort you spent!
I think it is a bit better then the white metal engine in my kit.
Hmm, if I'm compare the result with the original ones from Richies pictures:
(see https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12324.0)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51266528493_25d770fd11_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m7fmPF)_V5A7312 (https://flic.kr/p/2m7fmPF) by Richard Williams (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187004837@N07/), auf Flickr
then I see the diameter of the cylinder continues between the cooling fins, and only very thin cooling fins. My plan was to try a tip from the Windsock International about scratch engines using brass and plastic plates. And this type if early is a ideal candidate to try that method. I'm not sure if a 3D printer can show a hard edge like metal?
It sound a bit crazy, but may be you some of my crazy models?
I know, the cooling fans are only 3mm high, so this is hard to replicate in that scale.
Thanks again,
Frank
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I have only just found this Edo - what a super project. Shame about the fuselage as it was looking very good, but if you have managed to make another one it will not matter too much. The engine is very convincing and is better than my current attempts to score the cooling fins in plastic. Fins on air cooled engines are a scratch builders nightmare... give me a water cooed engine every time!
Stephen.
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hi guys!
it took me a while, but in the end I recovered from the crash of some times ago...
I really appreciate your support and incouragement and I am glad to report with a new fusolage for you!!
here we go!
(https://i.imgur.com/kh5rfGx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RzkoNz5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LiQDk4Z.jpg)
Next up are the wheels... I have some ideas on that, but I don't want to spoiler you right now... so stay tuned!
ciao
Edo
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Oh my... how have I missed this. Amazing work. Both, the engine and the fuselage are spectacular. I will follow with great interest.
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Edo, I really like your fuselage!
The little coil springs are so sweet 8)
Please continue to keep us entertained with this great build!
Cheers,
Frank
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Edo, I've missed you! You wouldn't believe the smile on my face when I saw the "NEW" tag next to this topic! The new fuselage looks superb - exquisite work!
I forget: are you working from some drawings? As I mentioned earlier I'm keen to build an XI of my own in 1/48 (albeit with ailerons and a more modern engine to represent an NZ-based replica) and I'd love to get copies of what you're working from if possible.
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That is a really Awesome recovery and great progress! I have been reading the French Aces Encyclopedia and several French Aces flew Bleriots in the beginning of the War. Makes Me wish I had scratch building skills :(
RAGIII
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Beautiful fuselage and suspension, woodgrain looks very realistic.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Hi all!
thank you, thank you for the kind words! I really appreciate them!!
Kiwi! my friend! I am not using original drawings, but some I found on the Internet. After some research, I settled to the draws you can find on this site: www.paoloseverin.it
It is a wonderful site, half in Italian, half in English by a guy who makes flying models. The Bleriot he built is 1/4th scale, you can find many pictures of his build and even an article (in Italian) and the plan he used (in English) that I use too, I scaled them down to A4 size and it is 1/32ish I think. I think he adapted something to make it airborne, for instance the wing profile he admittedly says it is an Albatross profile as he was more confident with it (I think he already made an airowthy Albatross, but I am not sure). Anyway, I think the drawing are accurate enought for my build...
Now, speaking of my build, I told you I had some ideas for the wheels... so here it goes.
To tell the truth all started from the spoked wheel: I wanted to find a better way (and an easyer one, indeed) to craft them... so I thought a way to do that in 3D printing and from there I moved to other parts and, at the end, decided to give it a try to the plane itself... so, this is the background, now to the production line.
The first problem I wanted to solve was the need of a "sendwich" rim... this was easy enought to do in 3D, but then the hub.... well, have alook it is easyer...
the rim... (24 holes in it, I had to redrill them as the 3D printer failed and let only a mark on where they were supposed to be)
(https://i.imgur.com/Hlanv6R.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uD4zSCM.jpg)
the hub... (6 holes per side, so each hole has to "bear" 2 spokes that will be 12 per wheel side)
(https://i.imgur.com/vFWlkWj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yrVBhn2.jpg)
that was the easy part, now how to put them togheter... in the end I decided for this jig: the idea is to lay the rim on a plane that is halfway the hub height so that, with all in place and firm, one could "sew" in the spokes themselves... here is the jig:
(https://i.imgur.com/FlDDnqe.jpg)
as you can see one rim-stop broke off while cleaning and was replaced by a brass rod... also the heigth is not correct so I had to add some wood spacers (too lazy to go back to drawning board...), but, hey!, it worked!!
(https://i.imgur.com/0vv5nS4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Uaq00t2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gt4ibnH.jpg)
As you can see it is only half spoked, now I have to cut the monofilament and turn the wheel to complete the rigging on the other side... so not sure on how will it be in the end, but seems promising...
I hope you enjoy it as much as I am!!
ciao
Edo
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Wow! That is awesome work!
RAGIII
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Kiwi! my friend! I am not using original drawings, but some I found on the Internet. After some research, I settled to the draws you can find on this site: www.paoloseverin.it
It is a wonderful site, half in Italian, half in English by a guy who makes flying models. The Bleriot he built is 1/4th scale, you can find many pictures of his build and even an article (in Italian) and the plan he used (in English) that I use too, I scaled them down to A4 size and it is 1/32ish I think. I think he adapted something to make it airborne, for instance the wing profile he admittedly says it is an Albatross profile as he was more confident with it (I think he already made an airowthy Albatross, but I am not sure). Anyway, I think the drawing are accurate enought for my build...
If they're good enough for you, my good man, they're great for me! Thank you very, very much!
As I said earlier I'll be in touch regarding STL files as things like the wheels will be a big obstacle to overcome on my own and I'm following your progress with great interest.
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Hi all!
time has come for a new update. These last weeks were spend designing the stabilizers and the rudder, but afer seeing how well this where printed I decided to redo the wings too. In the beginning, in fact, I thought of printing just the ribs and build the wings from those, but then I feared it would have tourned ot in a too fragile and uneaven build, so I decided to print them all the way.
This tourned out to have another problem as the file was too heavy and the printer could not upload it (it continued to reboot or it stuck at 30%-40% of the process).
So I cut the wings in two and that was enought to make the printer work properly again...
So here are some pictures....
left wing tip
(https://i.imgur.com/iJjDEd1.jpg)
left wing middle
(https://i.imgur.com/bg9LqxU.jpg)
right wing complete
(https://i.imgur.com/Muqzykp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5IQ05YV.jpg)
This is the rudder, you can see that the design had some foults...
(https://i.imgur.com/EnH2Dva.jpg)
and this is the stabilizers... ok, ok I forgot the control horn and had to add it afterwards...
(https://i.imgur.com/L0jthJ2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NgDH9sx.jpg)
and, lastly, here is the tail ccomplete, I hope you like it!
ciao
Edo
(https://i.imgur.com/vRLndrT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6als9EQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kZQc4C3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JN9fnbI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Agqc64E.jpg)
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Edo, I am definitely keen to get airframe data from you so I can print one of these myself - the results look fantastic! Congratulations!
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Those 3D printers allow interesting new solutions!
Is it paper on the surface? You can tighten it with nitro varnish (also available as clear wood primer or called dope? We have in German the word "Spannlack" for it, means stretching varnish and is used on flying balsa models).
Cheers,
Frank
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Wow, fascinating technique remembering AJP maquettes without photoetching shortcomings. Looking foward to see completed model pictures.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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thank you for the kind comments!
Frank, yes it is paper, I painted it with a very diluted yellow ocre oil paint. For the wings I ironed the paper to make it smoother, but I surely try your tip!
Zak, you are welcome, I can send you all the files I used both in .ctb format (the one generated by Citubox slicing sofrware) or in .skp format (the one generated by Sketchup software that I use for designing). The body of the aircraft, though, is “traditional” wood strips 1mm by 1mm.
Thank you Giuseppe! I can see the light at the end of the tunnel! And I hope to post some more pictures soon!
ciao
edo
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excellent work, Edo!
use clear warnish on the paper to avoid the hairy appearance where you cut it.
Tamiya clear in high dilution with alcohol goes perfectly
er me
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Here are two examples how my AJP models look like after wood primer (in german "Schnellschleifgrund")
Second picture here:
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=10851.msg213698#msg213698
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=8564.0
Cheers,
Frank
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Zak, you are welcome, I can send you all the files I used both in .ctb format (the one generated by Citubox slicing sofrware) or in .skp format (the one generated by Sketchup software that I use for designing). The body of the aircraft, though, is “traditional” wood strips 1mm by 1mm.
I'll send you a PM - I already downloaded the excellent drawings you mentioned earlier for the fuselage etc 8)
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OMG ! this is fab Edo !
Alexis
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hey Frank!
I had forgot those wonderful builds! The Demoiselle is really stunning.
To tell the truth it is on my build list for 3d printing, but it will take some time as after this one I need something more easy to bulid....
Truth is that, 3d printing or not, skill is the simple answer to a masterpiece, and it is very hard to push one’s limit further ahead....
Zak, I’ll send you the files no problem!
Alexis! thank you very much, my old friend!
ciao
eddo
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Email received, many many thanks Edo! Following with great interest and taking notes.
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That’s great, Edo. I really lije what you did here!
As Frank already wrote shrinking dope is great and turns paper into drum tight flying surfaces like on the real thing. I once build some Guillows balsa rubber powered planes and used that stuff then. But beware: It can easily bend wings just by its force. So you should definitely try this out at first on a spare part.
Best regards
Andreas
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Hi all!
the time has come to show you the last pictures of the finished model.
Let me tell you that, 3D printing or not, this has been a very hard build and that scratchbuilding it is an art in itself, an art that I don't master at all. Now looking back to Des' build that I used as a guide throught this build, I can tel you without fear that his build is still a milestone and an unsurpassed one. Too much things are not perfect in my model, alignment, dope covering, structural consistency...
Nevertheless, when I look at it I feel happy: I never thought I would have made it... and I hope some one more talented than me would take the same road and build a better one!
here are the pics, enjoy!
(https://i.imgur.com/BZB6xTA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5phrFjc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Lxpmtfa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FPisNVg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GJMKXaW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AfSOkLe.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HIWlgEN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zuZFULx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6SmG7Qn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8xTCHmD.jpg)
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It's great to see this one completed, congratulations Edo! A very inspirational thread and build.
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Congratulations Edo, you've done a fabulous job on this one! Some great modeling, and a really beautiful model of a true classic to add to your collection!
Cheers,
Lance
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Outstanding model, looking so real.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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You should be proud of this accomplishment! Your Bleriot looks great and is of course a Model that not many would attempt, let alone complete! Very Well Done!
RAGIII
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Great that you finished this Edo! And what a nice result!
Very interesting in many ways, this is may be the future of modeling, to download or create 3D data and print the kits at home.
I guess you learned a lot during the project as there are a lot of new aspects: digital work, setup and fine tuning of the printer, working with the resin results (e.g. get rid of the fine steps) ...
That is one aspect for me to stay away from a 3D printer for now: reduce time on PC/monitor and avoid liquid resin. I really like to work with real materials like wood, metal ...
Cheers,
Frank