forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: jeroen_R90S on November 25, 2021, 08:28:11 PM

Title: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: jeroen_R90S on November 25, 2021, 08:28:11 PM
As the title says. Unfortunately my models are, even if only for a short time of the day, exposed to direct sunlight.
This morning, while cleaning the dust off the models and glass shelves, I noticed the upper lozenge on my 1/72 Albatros D.Va had lost most of it's colour and is now basically tints of green and blue.
Other decals and paints that are near it (e.g. the sworl camouflage on my Encore Oeffag Albatros, or Techmod on my really old 1/72 Fokker D.VII and E.V) still look like the day they were applied.

So, if you used Aviattic lozenge and would like to keep it like it was when applied, keep out of the sun :(

Jeroen
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Bughunter on November 26, 2021, 03:39:14 AM
Thanks for the warning!
I think the same is valid for the flexible rigging lines.

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: RAGIII on November 26, 2021, 04:18:22 AM
Thanks for the warning. My cases are not near a window and do not have internal lights. One wonders if cases with lighting would be a risk to the decals.
RAGIII
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Dirigible-Al on November 26, 2021, 07:01:42 AM
I remember a 1/28 Revell Fokker D.VII that was displayed in a model shop window. Eventually the lozenge on the top wings crazed and then began to peel itself off. Sunlight and decals are not good friends.
Alan.
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: KiwiZac on November 26, 2021, 08:49:03 AM
Thank you Jeroen, I have several (four?) Aviattic-decalled projects but for once our small house's lack of display space has proved a blessing! I will have to remember that as I still have other kits I'd love to do with their products.
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Berman on November 26, 2021, 11:32:22 AM
This is most likely caused by the Sun's ultra violet rays. Fluorescent tubes also produce ultra violet. The safest option would be to light your display case with LED's.
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Dave W on November 27, 2021, 09:31:49 AM
As a courtesy I contacted Richard Andrews of Aviattic to alert him to this thread and invite him to comment on the topic. Richard is a registered forum member with full posting rights.

However he has replied and stated very clearly and firmly that he has no wish to discuss Aviattic matters on the Forum.

On that basis I suggest this thread has gone as far as it can. Those who wish to discuss the matter directly with Aviattic will need to contact them as there will clearly be no response on the Forum.

Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Ernie on November 27, 2021, 01:15:10 PM
Hi guys...nothing to do with Aviattic decals, but I have some older decals
for a Pfalz that where the white has yellowed somewhat.  I have read over
time that using the Sun's rays to bring back the white, and am wondering
what the thinking is these days about that sort of thing.  Thanks all!

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: jeroen_R90S on November 27, 2021, 11:29:08 PM
I do agree that putting models in direct sunlight is not very advisable, but there is no real alternative for me except to put them in storage and not be able to look at them occasionally ;)

I think the same is valid for the flexible rigging lines.
I haven't used those very often, but on the exact same Albatros I did. They are, so far, still intact... :fingerscrossed: But nonetheless I've put those lozenge/flexible rigging models in the darkest corners of my cabinet...

Thanks for the warning. My cases are not near a window and do not have internal lights. One wonders if cases with lighting would be a risk to the decals.
Probably the best solotion for long term display -I'm envious!

Sunlight and decals are not good friends.
Definately true, also paints and the plastic itself may react to it as well, though I'm no chemist... It's interesting that some of my old models have no issues at all (like a Tamiya 1/48 Wildcat I built when they were just coming out!) and others, like the Albatros, react so quickly...
Best would be to avoid direct light if possible. :)

Thank you Jeroen, I have several (four?) Aviattic-decalled projects but for once our small house's lack of display space has proved a blessing! I will have to remember that as I still have other kits I'd love to do with their products.
There's always and upside to a downside  ;D My smallish house has the disadvantage that the only display area I have is exposed to the sun for a certain time of the day, depending on season, too.. :(

This is most likely caused by the Sun's ultra violet rays. Fluorescent tubes also produce ultra violet. The safest option would be to light your display case with LED's.
Thanks! :)

However he has replied and stated very clearly and firmly that he has no wish to discuss Aviattic matters on the Forum.
It was not my intention to critisize Aviattic lozenge, I've used them, and will use them again. I just need to find a way to display those models to keep the colours vibrant. Without going into it too deeply I have to say it's an interesting response not to respond. However, I'll use what I have as I like them anyway.

Hi guys...nothing to do with Aviattic decals, but I have some older decals
for a Pfalz that where the white has yellowed somewhat.  I have read over
time that using the Sun's rays to bring back the white, and am wondering
what the thinking is these days about that sort of thing.  Thanks all!
Ernie :)
I've done that in the past as well, but with mixed results: the whites came out nicely, but the yellows and reds faded! I also had carrier crack/break so I needed to brush the Microcoat-stuff on them to prevent them from falling apart.
I've also been dumb enough to just tape them to the window without realizing windows get moist/wet with condensation sometimes.... (oops) So now I put them in zip lock bags.
By now I try to replace such decals when possible, but sometimes there are no other options... You could try cutting up some parts you don't need and give it a go :)

Jeroen
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Ernie on November 28, 2021, 09:27:58 AM
Thanks Jeroen, your advice is much appreciated. :)

Cheers,
Ernie
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: jeroen_R90S on December 03, 2021, 06:19:05 PM
YW, better to learn from my mistakes  ;D

Jeroen
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: gedmundson on December 04, 2021, 05:48:49 AM
You've brought up an excellent point, Jeroen. I'm lucky to have all my models on display out of the sunlight, which I know would affect decals and paint and possibly even the EZ-Line rigging according to respondents here.

My wife used to own a shop which sold stained glass decorations which she hung in the window. The fishing line she used to hang them with deteriorated quickly in the sunlight, and became brittle, sometimes breaking and as a result dropping the items on display.

Cheers,
Gary
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: jeroen_R90S on December 15, 2021, 07:31:38 PM
Thanks Gary -better to keep all of them away from the sun!
Currently looking into making some of those display cases as Mike Norris uses to put 2-3 models in to keep them out of the sun, and put the rest in closed storage boxes.
Can't view at all the models at the same time them, but they should be less dusty, and also easier to keep out of the sun.
I'd hate to see my 1/32 WNW D.VII go the same way as my 1/72 D.VII and Alb D.Va...
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: pepperman42 on December 15, 2021, 09:55:52 PM
Hey Ernie,
               I do still occasionally put old decals in a zip log bag and tape them to a window with afternoon sun light exposure. It does bleach out the yellowed carrier film and doesn't affect the coloured portions . Normally a couple of days does the trick. I suspect this same process is what affects the Aviattic products. Ink differences may also be part of it.

Steve   
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: torbiorn on December 15, 2021, 09:57:08 PM
I’m relatively new in the hobby and has a question: what kind of duration of exposure are we talking about here? Months, years or decades of sun exposure? Not that it matters much (better let them rest in the shade no matter what?), just curious.
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: jeroen_R90S on February 15, 2022, 05:46:41 PM
Hi Torbiorn,

Sorry, a bit late... as I had to check when I finished these and had a few hectic months :(

The affected Albatros and Fokker were finished a couple of years ago (2017), so it's not that the lozenge decays out after half a year or so. It is interesting that a few years older (2014 and 2015) D.VII and E.V with Techmod lozenge still look like the day they were finished, including the yellows and purples.

Unfortunately closer scrutiny of my 2020 finished 1/32 D.VII with Aviattic lozenge is starting to show the same effect of bleaching out specific colours, so I've packed that one up in a closed box before it's too late. I really need to find a better place for that one. I have ordered transparant acrylic and will see if I can make a display box to put that out of the sun.

As I wrote, all models are only partially in the sun during a specific time of the day.

Jeroen
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: KiwiZac on February 17, 2022, 03:24:59 AM
I have two 1/72 The Blue Max birds (would love a third) and a 1/48 with standard lozenge, all with Aviattic's great-looking decals and kept in boxes purely due to a lack of display space, but again I appreciate the heads-up Jeroen! Something to bear in mind when planning my displays and I'm interested to hear if a different clear coat assists in preventing this issue.
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: WD on May 18, 2022, 03:55:32 AM
Guys,
        Heard about this on a modeling podcast the other day. Gunze makes a UV barrier clear coat in flat, and in gloss. Reviews I've found state that it's very effective at preventing fading.

- Gunze Mr. Color UV Cut GX 112 Gloss
- Gunze Mr. Color UV Cut GX 113 Flat

HTH!

WD
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Bughunter on May 18, 2022, 05:39:29 AM
Thanks for the tip!
Some shops wrote "Not available", but found both and ordered :)

Cheers,
Frank
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: WD on May 18, 2022, 05:56:31 AM
Thanks for the tip!
Some shops wrote "Not available", but found both and ordered :)

Cheers,
Frank

No problem Frank!  I only recently found out about this product. Evidently, it's been out a while. I heard about it on one of the modeling podcasts I follow (another reason to listen to them). On the reviews I read, folks have been using it for outdoor model railroad rolling stock and buildings, and report no fading of colors, no yellowing of whites, so I'm pretty optimistic about this. I hope it is a help to others here.

WD
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Berman on May 18, 2022, 11:57:18 PM
 It seems to be available in 18ml jars and 170ml spray cans. You would have to mix the gloss and flat to obtain a satin finish. I found one supplier that states this coating cannot be used over water based paint or decals. See disclaimer at bottom. https://www.scalehobbyist.com/manufacturers/Gunze_Mr_Hobby/Paints/mr-super-clear-uv-cut-gloss/GSI0000B522/product.php
   Perhaps another type of clear coating should be applied first as a barrier coat. Some testing needs to be done to determine if the Gunze UV cut spray will actually prevent Aviattic decals from fading.
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Berman on May 19, 2022, 03:58:38 AM
   The Gunze UV clear coat is lacquer based. Krylon produces both matte and gloss clear UV resistant spray cans. The label states acrylic coating. It would require testing to see which provides better protection from fading.
   If you needed a satin finish, the gloss and matte spray cans would need to be decanted through use a straw for use in an airbrush.
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: WD on May 19, 2022, 06:33:42 AM
Well, all I know is someone wanted a solution to their fading problem. I offered one up that I was made aware of, and that in one review, a modeler had used it for 22 years with no fading of decals or paints. That was enough of an endorsement for me. Your mileage may vary.

WD
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: Beto on May 20, 2022, 08:26:01 AM
Has anybody tried anti-UV varnish on their models? There are several brands for general arts purposes, but I have found this, specifically aimed to modelers:

https://www.modelarskiswiat.pl/kategoria-produktu/werniksy/ (https://www.modelarskiswiat.pl/kategoria-produktu/werniksy/)
Title: Re: Tip: keep your Aviattic Lozenge far away from sunlight
Post by: WD on May 20, 2022, 09:43:04 AM
Excellent Beto!  It appears to be an acrylic lacquer like the Gunze product I posted previously.

WD