forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Resin Kits => Topic started by: Alexis on June 01, 2021, 12:49:11 PM
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A few members and our very own fearless leader Dave ( Hi Dave ) have ask about building resin kits for some haven't tried one yet .
Well guys you have nothing to fear with building resin kits . The only thing which is really different is the medium of the mantirles . But not all resin kits are the same or of the same qualities as others . 3D resin kits are still fairly new so the subject matter is very limited . However resin kits for yester years can still be found . Some are very rare and hard to find while others are still out there at a fair price . Only drawback is this kits are 72 and 48 scale but with Lukgraph they are changing that game with their current FF 33 L and their future release of an Albatros C.III . We have two members who are currently have build threads going with two very unique building styles which are very inspiring .
Przemol build
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12194.0 (https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12194.0)
Kent's
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12171.0 (https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12171.0)
Another thread which needs mention is Frank's build on the Quadro plane . (Franks first resin build )
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12072.0 (https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12072.0)
Mike has a few resin builds on the go as well
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12208.0 (https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12208.0)
You can ask the guys any questions and they will share :)
First kit I would like to show is Ardpol take on the Pfalz D.VIII in 72 scale .
The resin in this kit is hard in nature which can cause a few headaches , the resin will be hard to sand and it is brittle . To much force and flexing will cause the parts to break . The struts are the main factor in this and over time the will wrap under load . These are best replace with new ones made . But this choice is up to the builder . Clean up of the parts is needed with little casting blokes to remove which is always plus .
With resin kits there is also the chance of parts not fully formed ( short shot included ) as you can see on the right side of the fuselage . This looks worse then it actual is and is a easy fix . I will tack in place on the inside of the fuselage with plastic card held in place with Tamiya extra thin . The glue will not harm the resin at all but it provides a bit of the card to stay in place . On the out side these areas will be filled with putty , smoothed over and when dried sanded .
There are no PE parts or white metal so seatbelts and gun jackets will need to be sourced form some where else .
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That's all for tonight ....I need my beauty sleep :)
Alexis , making the world shine within !
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Thanks Alexis! This tutorial is much appreciated. I have a couple of resin kits in the stash, but have not tried one yet. Maybe this will encourage me. ;D
Best regards,
Bob
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Thank you Alexis!
I have two 1/72 Choroszy Modelbud kits, the Caproni CA.3 and the Farman MF.11.
The parts look very fragile and the instruction are very basic, so these builds frighten me a little.
I also have the CMK Port Victoria PV 7, which I want to build alongside my HP V/1500. (The biggest and the smallest British aircraft that never saw action on the Western front).
But I hope that with the help of your tutorial I will have the courage to make a start!
Willem
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No trouble at all guys , hope that in the end it will give folks the confidence on tackling a resin kit .
Alexis
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Thanks Alexis to take your time for explaining a resin build (with your experience of more then one kit!).
And thanks for linking my build!
The resin in this kit is hard in nature which can cause a few headaches , the resin will be hard to sand and it is brittle .
This hard resin has also an advantage. It is as hard as CA glue, so it allows a consistent sanding. Sometimes it is a problem to glue softer material with CA with the following sanding, which is not the case with this hard resin.
And good luck and have fun with this little Pfalz!
Cheers,
Frank
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You are welcome Frank and I hope it's not your last resin build . I won't be building this one , I'm showing different kits first and will let you guys decide which one ;)
Another type of resin kit which is higher up in the level of detail but will need a bit more skill on the building . The modeller is left to make the parts them self such as struts and cockpit details .
For this example I have chosen Copper States Model HB W-12 . This was purchased when Eric owed the company and is the second boxing .
The resin in the kits before Edgar become the new owner is a medium base , easy to sand and the super glue will bond even better for it will settle in the microscopic holes . Primer and paint will also bond better as well . The detail of the resin is higher stand then the Ardpol kit .
The builder will have to work by refs with these kits for the instructions are history and scale drawings other then that there are no pic's to go by for part placement . All struts have to be made and detail needs to be added to the cockpit . The parts have resin blokes and there will be some sanding on getting parts to fit . These kits I don't recommend for your first build unless you are up for the challenge .
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Here is the PE parts and resin Mes D.III engine .
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I would like to show one more type of kit which is even on the higher end .
Jager Miniatures DFW CV in 48 scale . These kits are very limited run . This is #3 out of 230 and can be hard to find . They are no longer producing kits but they do come up on e-bay from time to time and if you are able to grab one ...do so ..they others types as well .
The detail in this kit is out standing . There are no PE parts but it has a fair bit of white metal with bronze mix in . This type of metal parts I don't mind . They hold their shape better then just plain white metal parts . The resin is dark tannish/grey colour and this is very hard resin but it's not overly brittle . The builder has to make the iter struts and contrail strut is provided in the kit along with detail wire for the engine . Push rods are left up to the builder to add . Only some of the parts have casting blokes so clean up is quicker then other resin kit manufacturers . Clean up on the metal parts will need a metal file but this goes rather quick once you get started . For the struts that are white metal if one wants to the can replace this as well . ( This kit has a fare bit of weight ) .
The fuselage is cast in one piece with an opening in the bottom for adding all the detail in the pit . Draw back to this is it makes it very hard painting the interior and installing all of the parts . The fuselage sides are saging in and this needs to be corrected before any paint and details are added . To fix this saging sides wedges will be made out of thick plastic card . A pot on the stove with boiling water and the fuselage will first be placed in the boiling water to soften up the resin . Removing this for the water the wedges will be placed in and another trip in the hot water for a few seconds , removed and after a minute of cooling cold water will get ran on over it setting the memory to the resin .
Reason for soften the resin up before the wedges are added is to ensure the resin will not crack , that happens and even more troubles lay a head . You will hot be able to redo the hot water treatment and that whole side will need to be removed and rebuilt up .
The instructions are text with pictures of the finished model as a ref and scale draws .
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:) Up-date starts on the end of last page :)
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Up next will be tools/glues and the do's and don'ts working with resin .
Alexis
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I will be following along on this Tutorial Alexis ;D
RAGIII
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Thanks Rick :)
Saw blades of different lengths are very helpful for removing the casting blokes . These are PE blades from RB Productions . They have different sets available so if you don't have any I do recommend them . There are different manufacturers of these out there .
If it's a really large casting bloke I won't use a hand saw . Takes forever cutting it off so I will use my dremel with a circular saw blade . Only takes a few seconds to cut through your nail and such so be careful when holding the part .
WEAR A MASK WHEN CUTTING !!!! Resin dust is very bad to be breathing in ( same as plastic dust ) . To help reduce the amount of dust , dip the saw blade in water or add a small drop or two right on the part . I will do this with plastic as well . I always have a small dish of water on the bench when doing task like this .
If the blade starts to get clogged I wipe it with a towel to clean out the teeth
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For cleaning up panel ines or have to re-scribe them or other lost details are the same I use for plastic kits . Squadrons panel line scriber . I have been using this tool now for 30 years . The other scriber I use is a dental tool and has multi functions , scribing scrapping . Not sure were one can pick this up at . I got my from my dentist but I'm sure you can find these on line .
You don't have to get . What ever you use now for scribing is just fine .
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Since most of the kits I have need strut replacement measuring tools are a must . I use a digital caliper and a ruler for this task .
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So is drilling into resin any different then plastic ...nope ! It's the same but you will have clearer holes then you would with plastic .
When drilling into plastic you always have the ridge which needs to be sanded or scrap away . Resin you don't have this .
You can use whatever drill bits you want . The bit's I use I pick up at a Rock and Gem shop . These are for drilling into rock and I started using these 5 years ago and they are still sharp . I drill into resin , plastic , wood , metal . Only drawback is they aren't cheap . For a set of 12 bits it cost me 33 bucks , but in the long run I'm not having to constantly be replacing bits .
I was ask what is the tape on the pin vice for ? This stops the damn thing form rolling off the bench ;)
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Okay so what about glues !
Well you have the option of super glue or epoxy . I don't use epoxy glue at all . Just something about the smell which really turns my tummy .
I do use three types of super glue .
Thin - I use for PE parts or small resin parts for in the cockpit or really fine details .
Medium - I use for all other parts to be joined
Thick - I use for filling in seems or small imperfections .
When joining parts such as the fuselage I run glue down the whole seem . I don't spot tack it and fill with filler . This will not create a strong join . Resin reacts different to environment temperatures then plastic does .So you don't want seems opening up later . Also by doing this it acts as the filler as well . Just remember then the super glue needs to be sanded right away . DON"T LET THIS SIT OVERNIGHT to fully harden . Same as with plastic models . You will remove more resin then the harden glue when sanding
WARNING Super glue bonds to resin better then it does to plastic . So TEST FIT , TEST FIT before applying glue .
For applying the glue I use a few different tools but the main one is a sewing needle with the top part of the eye cut off and a handel made out of a piece of bamboo skewer . You can use different sizes of needles to make these giving you different options on the amount of glue to add . Will also use a dull blade for applying glue to seems and for filling if more is needed . Any buildup of glue on the tips can be brunt off it a cig lighter or candle flame . WARNING KEEP HAIR AWAY FOR FLAME
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Any filler you use on plastic kits can be use on resin kits as well . A few of the ones I use are Mr. Surface 1000 or 1500 for small hairline fill in . i apply these with a brush I keep set aside just for this . I don't use good brushes for this .
For filling air bubbles which are common in resin kits I fill with superglue rather then using putties . This makes the job much faster and doesn't need a second coat because of shrinkage form using putty .
For some work I will use Tamiya grey putty and their white putty which is like Mr. Surface just a little thinker . These putties can be thinned down if need be with their lacquer thinner or a store brand . I don't use the grey putty very often , it's really grainy .
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For clean up on the seems and metal parts if included in the kit just you regular sanding sticks and needle files .
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The most important tool you need and I high recommend you pick one up and that is ...
WEAR A MASK WHEN CUTTING AND SANDING RESIN !
Resin dust is not something you want to be breathing in . It is bad for your lungs and I do hope you do the same when sanding plastic as well .
I also don't recommend adding Talc ( talcum powder ) This is very toxic to humans so if you do use it wear a mask and gloves and wash your hands afterwards .
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I have build many resin kits over the years and one step I ALWAYS do at the very beginning is to wash all the resin parts with a automobile sidewall cleaner or other cleaner that will remove silicone. Resin kits frequently use a silicone based mould release agent. I do this at the very beginning so I don't spread the silicone around to all the parts while handling them.
Paint will not stick to resin if silicone is present. Sometimes the contaminate penetrates into the resin and this can be very difficult to paint over. Unfortunately, I don't have a sure fire fix for this issue.
I don't know if you have had similar experiences, Alexis, and I hope you don't mind me chiming in here.
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Some really useful advice here, Alexis and Ken, I am paying attention! Regards, Marc.
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Don't mind at all Ken , the more info people have the better they get !
For cleaning the parts I use 91% Isopropyl Alcohol . I pick it up at Walmart . This will remove any silicone left form the moulds and it will also draw out and oils in the resin as well . Lighter fluid will also work but the parts will need to be washed off with soap and water afterwards .
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Many thanks for the very useful advice in this thread. I've learned a lot from these posts which again illustrate how good this Forum is and more importantly, how helpful and supportive our members are for one another. Thanks folks!
cheers
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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This is a great guide/tutorial in building resin kits, Alexis. I really appreciate your work 👍👍👍
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Good to know about the alcohol. I'll have to try it on my next resin kit.
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You guys are welcome :)
Ken , I have been using alcohol for cleaning now for years . I also use it for cleaning my brake rotors on my mountain bike , stripes all the crap off and will also pull the pads and let them soak in a bath for a few minutes and then wipe them . Takes all the contaminants out out of the pads and prolongs their life .
Okay we made this far so what about paint ?
You don't need any special paint or primer for resin . What ever paints you use on your bench now is all you need and your favorite primer .
There are resin primers on the market which you can get , but I never saw the reason on using them . But that choice is yours . Go with what you are comfortable using .
I use Tamiya paint pretty much for everything . I use their Acrylic line and thin with their lacquer thinner . This smooths the paint better and it also creates better abrasion then their X20A thinner .
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I also use their lacquer line of paint , love this stuff ! But it can only be thinned with their brand for this paint . ( orange cap ) Their lacquer thinner which is the yellow cap will not work with these lacquer line . I love working with these for you can get a better control on transparent layers achieving a better over all effect .
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hey Alexis! this is very useful!
lots of infos and tips....
but how do you manage rescribbing panel lines square? also it seems to me that I always scrib too deep and too narrow compared to the model panel lines... so never replace them propperly...
thank you
ciao
edo
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Great tips so far Alexis. I seem to already have "Most" of what I need ;D
RAGIII
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I hope you don't mind a specific question. I have the proper PE blades for resin cutting. I still am questioning how one removes parts like this prop from the blocks. The prop blades are Extremely thin. Any suggestions appreciated!
RAGIII
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnPyKhsD/IMG-20210606-081351497.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0CkLhxk/IMG-20210606-081410846.jpg)
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Hi Edo ,
Panel lines are a challenge for as all but there are ways around them . It really depends on the type of scriber . The squadron one I use cuts a " V" shape channel . The hard you press the deeper it goes making the line wider so the key is to rather make light passes until the width matches the others . Took me a while to learn this ;)
I have PE scriber but I really don't care for them , can't control the width of line needed . The old tried and test method is a sewing needle in a pin vise . Or the back side of the tip in a #11 blade . For my straight edge I scriber along a metal ruler or will use dymo tape . If I make a mistake I will fill that line with stretched spuce form the kit using Tamiya quick setting . It melts the plastic faster . This of course is for plastic kits . On resin kits If I need to redo that line I fill with super glue , sand/polish and start over .
On plastic kits once the line is made I lightly sand it to rid of build up and then run tamiya thin in the line and this will smooth it out .
Rick ,
That is a nice prop and I never seen one cast that way and ..yeah how does one remove the bloke with damaging the prop it's self .
I would use the back side of a # 11 blade on the underside of the prop and score it free , better control then using a saw blade . Resin scores quicker then plastic so care still is needed and only slight pressure . This might be time consuming but will give you less clean up .
Thanks guys
Alexis
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Okay I have selected two kits which you good folks can choose which one will be built .
Choices are the following
Copper State Models
HB W-12
Or
Salmson-moineau S.M. 1
Alexis
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Hi Alexis,
I would vote for the Salmson.
Willem
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I am good with either one but if a vote is needed I will go with the salmson. More complex and rigging involved!
RAGIII
PS: Thanks for the advice on the prop!
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Great thread on this hot topic, so many hints and tips stack together. Thank you for sharing your experience on these sometims discouraging kits: many interesting subjects still available only in resin and many of us still scared by this medium.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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thank you Alexis!
very useful tips!
I’ll let you know how it goes!
ciao
edo
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Okay the Salmson it is . ;)
Alexis
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Well let's get started ,
Copper States newer resin kits the resin is a dark gary and the parts are beautifully cast with very fine detail . Des built this kit and can be viewed on his site .
https://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/page56.html (https://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/page56.html)
Here is what you get inside the box ...
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I am really looking forward to this build Alexis!
Willem
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I am really looking forward to this build Alexis!
Willem
Me too Alexis!
RAGIII
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Yup! Agree with everyone above! I'm looking forward to this! I see there is a lot of cleaning up to do on the parts, Alexis, please take us through this slooowly! It's quite important and could destroy stuff... Regards, Marc.
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Thanks guys ,
Marc , no worries I will go slow and yes there is a lot of blokes to be removed and clean up but once this gets started it goes quick .
Alexis
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Sorry for being late to this excellent thread. As was mentioned, I do have some experience with resin kits. But Alexis has done a great job giving lots of advice that I would also sign to.
Maybe a few comments from my experience. One came to my mind when I saw that question from Rick
I hope you don't mind a specific question. I have the proper PE blades for resin cutting. I still am questioning how one removes parts like this prop from the blocks. The prop blades are Extremely thin. Any suggestions appreciated!
RAGIII
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnPyKhsD/IMG-20210606-081351497.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0CkLhxk/IMG-20210606-081410846.jpg)
I would still use the razor saw to cut the bulk of the resin cast block but leaving about 2 mm thick layer of it, I would not do it just at the connection to the real part. Thus one avoids putting to much stress to the delicate element, much more fragile than the solid casting block.
Then I would remove the remainder of the block, slice after slice, with a sharp razor blade. I prefer these to modelling knives because they have much thinner blades and do not stress the resin bits too much. The last layer I would remove by delicate sanding.
And a comment on adhesives. I use two types of CA glue only - thin and gel. And for the majority of assembly I use the thin one. I secure the elements to be joined observing the proper geometry - with tape (fuselage halves), cardboard templates (wings to fuselage), any kind of supports (struts), whatever suits better and then simply pour the glue into the joints. When it gets hold at several spots I remove the element from the jig and fill the remainder of the joints. After that I clean the excess of the glue.
Once I tried epoxy glue which gives some time for the geometry adjustment but then I discovered its strength was not satisfactory and had to redo the joints with CA.
For cleaning the resin elements I use mild detergent. I have never had any problem with painting after this. But definitely using the alcohol is more secure.
And I will be glad to answer any further questions.
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Thanks for commenting on My question Przemo! Rather than continuing to Hijack Alexis thread I asked the question in hints and tips 8)
RAGIII
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Rick , it's alright if others post . I see no Hijacking at all . I encourage others to post their methods here . We all have different ways of doing things and the more info shared here arms the builder with more knowledge :)
Alexis
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Rick , it's alright if others post . I see no Hijacking at all . I encourage others to post their methods here . We all have different ways of doing things and the more info shared here arms the builder with more knowledge :)
Alexis
Thanks Alexis. I was concerned about My Hijacking...not Przemo's answer ;D I had another set of props from the same kit so figured I would ask in the hints and tips section 8)
RAGIII
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:) :) :) 8)
Alexis
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My deepest apologies for letting this one fall behind on the up-dates . Life really busy all of sudden . I should be back with this again next month . Or sooner ....
Alexis
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Looking forward to it! ATB, Marc
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Yes , very late reply back , but you know ...better late then never !
Thanks Marc , will be back on this one shortly here as soon as other buld blogs are wrapped up . Don't have the room which I once had so .......Stayed tuned !
Alexis
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Thanks for starting this resin blog. I have built many 1/72 resin kits but don’t prefer them. Although most resin kits are very detailed with feather thin trailing edges on the wings. I’m just most leery of the wings warping over time.
I am excited to see you building the SM.1! This is my choice for my first ever complete scratch build. I don’t know of any 1/72 kits offered for this one. I’ll be following and taking copious notes!