forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: RLWP on May 10, 2021, 07:03:44 PM
-
There's probably a much simpler way of building this version. On the other hand, the Academy/Hobbycraft kit is cheap and easy to find.
So, this is the plan. Take the kit, add the Mastercasters resin kit, throw most of it away. What could possibly go wrong?
This is the remains of the fuselage on the Rosendaal drawings:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1682.JPG)
Leading to:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1683.JPG)
That's the Mastercasters 'fuel tank' attached to the original firewall
And the ever growing scrap pile:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1684.JPG)
Richard
-
wow, surgery, one can almost hear the sound of cutting and sanding and inhale the plastic and resin dust... I like it very much ;D
It will be a fine project for sure, I will watch with great interest.
-
wow, surgery, one can almost hear the sound of cutting and sanding and inhale the plastic and resin dust... I like it very much ;D
It will be a fine project for sure, I will watch with great interest.
You are getting the edited version. At one point I had the fuselage side with slots cut top and bottom for the longerons. Eventually, I gave up and cut the whole front away
Richard
-
Great project, looking forward to seeing how you do this. As ever, taking plenty of notes!
Richie
-
You have my attention ! And it didn't take anything shiny !!! :)
Alexis
-
I love the 17 bis so I look forward to your unique build! You have made a great start!
RAGIII
-
Nice start!
-
I'm hooked on this build already Richard! What amazing work you have done so far! Am important aircraft with no kit available, and so you go the total "fix-it-up" route! And such lovely work! You are right to start with a pure 17 kit - vertical front center-section struts and the upper wing spar further forward... a great start! Regards, Marc.
-
I'm hooked on this build already Richard! What amazing work you have done so far! Am important aircraft with no kit available, and so you go the total "fix-it-up" route! And such lovely work! You are right to start with a pure 17 kit - vertical front center-section struts and the upper wing spar further forward... a great start! Regards, Marc.
There's a much easier way to do this, which would be to clad the outside and use the Mastercasters parts inside. I don't always do easy...
From the resin kit, this was a disappointment:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1685.JPG)
I salvaged the quadrant and made up a new frame:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1686.JPG)
So, interior parts ready for paint:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1687.JPG)
Richard
-
Continuing to look awesome! That resin part really was aweful!
RAGIII
-
I admire the way you're attacking this one, Richard. Excellent start indeed!
Cheers,
Gary
-
I'm really enjoying this build, great progress. It's hard to tell what that resin part supposed to be? I much prefer your rendition! :D
Richie
-
Excellent job on the new throttle , that is a reallllly bad resin part . I heard nothing but disappointment to the resin set and takes a lot of messing around to get it fitting right . The other details look nice though .
Alexis
-
Good to see a conversion on the go. I hope that some of the scrap pile parts will come in useful for something later. Precision modelling as always so I will be following along of course.
Stephen.
-
Good to see a conversion on the go. I hope that some of the scrap pile parts will come in useful for something later. Precision modelling as always so I will be following along of course.
Stephen.
I've got two piles of rejects. In one pile goes things that have potential, like the engine. The other one I'll sift through at the end to see if anything is worth keeping
Richard
-
Interesting project, Richard
Your work so far is impressive so will follow this with interest
Regards
Dave
-
A bit of a hiatus, all to do with the fuel tank/ammunition boxes
There are pictures in Windsock Datafile Vol 1 page 40. Judging by the details, I think figures 94 to 96 are all the same aeroplane taken at the same time, and it has a huge fuel tank. Fig 97 shows an Alkan-Hamy synchronised Lewis gun with the same fuel tank and many of the same features
The problem with this is - where did the ammunition box go? The Lewis wouldn't need one, the Vickers definitely would
Vol 2 page 87 fig 87 shows the front of a 17bis, handily showing the supports for the side fabric. It also shows a huge fuel tank behind the seat, with a connecting pipe that must have been a fabricators nightmare!
Mastercasters (and ICM) have both gone with ammunition boxes below the gun, which would have taken half the tank away
I can't find a picture for this, so I was going to go with the extended tank. However, I've decided to give the resin box a reprieve.
I'm actually now wondering if all Vickers armed Nie 17s had that tank behind the seat - anyway, mine's getting one
If anyone has an image of a crashed Nie 17 or 17bis showing the cockpit details, I'd be very interested to see one
Richard
-
It is a rainy day here so I am going to spend some time looking through My references. n the meantime I will post a couple of photos of My CSM builds. Note that the Early Nieuport 17 has the fuel and oil tank behind the firewall in the cockpit. ( No Vickers so no ammo boxes needed.)
(https://i.postimg.cc/tRS6hVVY/55646608-2698046423555746-3623220031355092992-n.jpg)
The later Nieuport 17's, 24, 24bis etc., had the Oil Tank on the front of the Firewall under the cowling. Ammo boxes were behind the fuel tank.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rF8J640K/49949337-2580740951952961-1448114048515178496-n.jpg)
The 17 bis with the Clerget engine seems to have a much narrower chord cowling. To me this " Might" prevent having the oil tank in front of the firewall. Pending further research MY best WAG is that the fuel tank was moved behind the seat on the 17 bis leaving room for the oil tank and Ammo boxes. Like I said, I will continue to look! IHTH,
RAGIII
PS: Looking through the Windsock Special I am puzzled by one thing. If there is a fuel tank behind the seat one would expect to see a filler cap somewhere. I have found No indication of that filler cap so far?
-
Yes, odd that, isn't it. If nothing else there should be a vent
Richard
-
This will be an interesting project to watch.
-
Nice upgrades on this, Richard. This conversion looks like its going well.
-
OK, I've stuffed as much inside the fuselage as I want:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1691.JPG)
There's quite a bit to think about with respect to the outer fairings, the shaping isn't at all obvious. And the starting point is the diameter of the cowling at the front.
The kit cowling is bigger in diameter than scale size. I need to have the Clerget to hand to work out how close to the correct size I can get the cowling - it needs to be replaced because the Clerget cowling is shorter and has a different shape
Richard
-
Richard , fabulous work on the interior . Shame that side panels will be covering this up .
Alexis
-
Looking fabulous Richard. I am sorry that I wasn't able to come up with the definitive answer on the arrangement of fuel tanks and fillers. I like your ultimate decision! I am looking forward to your further progress!
RAGIII
-
Looks great Richard, I love the flat aluminium and weathering of the fuel tank. CAn you enlighten me how you did it? This is the efffect I want on the cowling of my Bristol Scout.
I had a similar problem with the side panels of my Scout as the shape was not at all obvious. My solution was to fill the area with milliput which won't work here as it would all be seen. Are you able to make a temporary core from foam or balsa to help measure it up and make a template for forming from aluminium or styrene?
Richie
-
Great work on the interior, Richard. The plane is looking fine.
Bye, Manni
-
Looks great Richard, I love the flat aluminium and weathering of the fuel tank. CAn you enlighten me how you did it? This is the efffect I want on the cowling of my Bristol Scout.
I had a similar problem with the side panels of my Scout as the shape was not at all obvious. My solution was to fill the area with milliput which won't work here as it would all be seen. Are you able to make a temporary core from foam or balsa to help measure it up and make a template for forming from aluminium or styrene?
Richie
I am in that embarrassing position again where what looks great in pictures is ludicrously easy
I sprayed it white then painted it with acrylic paint slightly diluted and a brush. I think the trick is to brush in the appropriate direction, accept the streaks and stop before the whole surface is a uniform colour
Apart from that, I have no great secret. It’s turning dodgy painting to your advantage.
Richard
-
Thanks Richard, dodgy painting I can definitely do!
-
I think the posh word for it is scumbling
Richard
-
Lovely work, so far Richard! I have no good advice for the side panels, maybe just try a plastic sheet, score as required to represent stringers, and see if it fits! You could get really lucky.... Regards, Marc.
-
Lovely work, so far Richard! I have no good advice for the side panels, maybe just try a plastic sheet, score as required to represent stringers, and see if it fits! You could get really lucky.... Regards, Marc.
I’ll make formers and indeed use scored styrene sheet. The issue is - until I have the engine I don’t know what diameter the aeroplane will be at the front.
The kit is overscale which I’m not particularly surprised at. I have found from my scratchbuilds that fitting kit engines into scale models often leads to them interfering with the cowl. So I just need to wait for the postman.
Richard
-
The engine has arrived:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1698.JPG)
This is the rather nice Lukgraph Clerget, a 3D printed engine with lovely detail. And it builds up to a pretty near scale size too:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1699.JPG)
This means I can now make a cowling and bring the firewall down to the correct size, meaning I can then get on with the fuselage sides
Richard
While I was waiting, I built a card rocket:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/1-32-v2/DSCF1696.JPG?i=1258850232)
-
That 3d printed engine looks great, glad you can move on with the build now. The card rocket looks like a lot of fun too!
Richie
-
That 3d printed engine looks great, glad you can move on with the build now. The card rocket looks like a lot of fun too!
Richie
It was, I downloaded it from here: https://currell.net/models/v2.htm (https://currell.net/models/v2.htm)
Richard
-
What a brilliant website! They even that the R101 airship. My Grandad helped build it, looks like I shall have a fun project to distract me soon!
-
That engine is going to be awesome! A lot better than the Hobby Craft Clerget I was planning to use 8)
RAGIII
-
That engine looks great, Richard! Rocket on! Regards, Marc.
-
Always nice when a build can move forward , that engine looks really nice ! Also really like the rocket ...that is really cool !
Alexis
-
Always nice when a build can move forward , that engine looks really nice ! Also really like the rocket ...that is really cool !
Alexis
Just for even more fun, the V2 with a 1916 R.A.F Aerial Target:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/1-32-v2/DSCF1697.JPG?i=1841933460)
Different generations of unmanned aerial vehicles.
What Josef Jacobs and his dog make of it all, I don't know
Richard
-
The engine will make a fine addition to your build.
Are the V2, aerial target, and Jacobs figures all in the same scale?
-
The engine will make a fine addition to your build.
Are the V2, aerial target, and Jacobs figures all in the same scale?
Yes, all 1/32 scale
-
I suspect Josef's dog is wondering where his ball went and why he hasn't had a snack for a while. :D
-
I suspect Josef's dog is wondering where his ball went and why he hasn't had a snack for a while. :D
(https://i.imgur.com/6GmsyRe.jpg)
Richard
-
At least he has a stick to fetch there! ::)
-
Anyway...
I'm not sure why it is that these pretty interchangeable rotary engines (Gnome, Clerget, LeRhone, Oberursel) all ended living in quite different cowls. I haven't managed to reuse a mould yet! I turned up one for the short Clerget cowl of the 17bis and vac formed one:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1701.JPG)
I wanted to avoid a difficult join between the cowl and the upped deck, so I stuck them together. This means the Clerget has to be finished and installed before I could finish the fuselage:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1703.JPG)
The Lukgraph Clerget is a beautiful thing, highly recommended. It's a same this cowling hides so much of it
And, having scratched my head about 'are both sides the same?' (yes - otherwise the oval openings don't work), 'where is the centreline of the curvature of the fuselage?' (I stuck with running parallel to the upper longeron) and 'where did the support go?' (I guessed) - I have made the sides:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1704.JPG)
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1705.JPG)
Now I can paint those, make and install the empty belt reel, repair all the handling damage and close her up
Richard
-
So beautifully done Richard, you achieved amazing precision. It looks absolutely perfect!
Richie
-
It looks absolutely perfect!
Not from where I'm sitting, mate!
;D
Richard
-
Superb scratch building skills on the fuselage sides Richard! Looking beautiful.
RAGIII
-
Was wondering how you were going to do the sides , neat solution Richard . Lovely out come on vac-ing a new cowl , looks sharp in place !
Alexis
-
Those scratched sides look awesome Richard!!
Kent
-
The starboard side is in place:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1706.JPG)
Once it has had a chance to harden, I can trim the edges off. The port side is waiting for the empty belt drum
Richard
-
Outstanding !
Alexis
-
Excellent Richard! You are well on your way to a unique Model!!
RAGIII
-
Your Nieuport is progressing very good :)
-
Simply amazing work, Richard! That cowling is just perfect and the side pieces are the cat's whiskers! Quite divine... and I'm sure, unique! Regards, Marc.
-
And now, a balancing act:
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1708.JPG)
Not much of this is actually stuck together, it's the locating pins and some tape holding it up
Richard
-
This one is really taking shape now. The tacked in place wings give an indication of how it will look and it is Awesome!
RAGIII
-
Wonderful work, Richard. Everything looks so smooth and clean. Just great.
Bye Manni
-
Great , just great ..now I have the urge to pull out Hi-techs kit .
Really liking how this is coming together so far , so well done it's in line with a mainstream manufacture ..Awesome :)
Alexis
-
You don't hang about Richard, this is coming together beautifully and quite a tempo. No flailing around in the darkness here! :)
-
Yeah, it's a Nieuport.
When the components fit together without forcing them, you know you've done something right.
Looking forward to seeing more progress.
-
Nice work. I love the progress
-
And now - in colour!
(https://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/nieuport-17bis/DSCF1763.JPG)
Richard
-
I am very impressed by your outstanding built.
So beautiful.
-
Looking great Richard, I like the slight difference in the silver on the fabric and metal parts.
Richie
-
Looking great Richard, I like the slight difference in the silver on the fabric and metal parts.
Richie
Yes - and there's something unexpected going on there.
The fabric is Tamiya XF-16 flat aluminium brushed along the line of flight. The metal panels are X-11 chrome silver brushed vertically
The chrome is a lighter silver than the aluminium, yet in the pictures it appears darker. Which is probably more 'correct'
Very odd
Richard
-
A very happy accident then, I love the blue colour too.
Richie
-
A very happy accident then, I love the blue colour too.
Richie
Yes, I'm perhaps being a bit perverse with the blue. The aeroplane I'm modelling is usually depicted with red cowling etc.:
(http://www.wardrawings.be/WW1/Pictures/2-Aircrafts/Allies/UK/1-Fighters/Nieuport-17bis/p1.jpg)
http://www.wardrawings.be/WW1/Files/2-Airplanes/Allies/UK/1-Fighters/Nieuport-17bis.htm (http://www.wardrawings.be/WW1/Files/2-Airplanes/Allies/UK/1-Fighters/Nieuport-17bis.htm)
Blue seems like a plausible alternative 8)
Richard
-
Oh no, not another green vs yellow cowling discussion!
-
Oh no, not another green vs yellow cowling discussion!
No, definitely not - that one was red!
;D
Richard
-
The red looks nice but I prefer the blue!
-
Lovely progress! It's looking quite authentic and beautiful... Nice colours! There, I said it! Regards, Marc.
-
really enjoyed reading through this build, it's looking beautiful 8)
-
Outstanding Richard! Lovely Nieuport 17 bis. Your skills are incredible....No one will know it was a conversion when you are done 8)
RAGIII
-
Terrific work, Richard. In my opinion the blue fits the silver parts very well. I like how you brushed the silver parts different, makes it look more vibrant and realistic.
Bye Manni