forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Mike Norris on April 07, 2021, 12:26:07 AM

Title: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 07, 2021, 12:26:07 AM
Hi all,
As I'm nearing the completion of the Fokker D.II model build, I've started preparing the next model.
This will be another resin kit from 'Omega Models', which will represent the Hansa-Brandenburg W.20, Serial No:1552, photographed on the 14th of March 1918, at the seaplane experimental centre (SVK) at Warnemunde before being accepted for naval use (by the SAK). 

 (https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/pageheader.jpg)

 (https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/V2.jpg)

The Hansa-Brandenburg W.20 was designed during late 1917 and early 1918  by Ernst Heinkel whilst working at Hansa-Brandenburg.
The intention for this small, unarmed spotter float plane was for it to be partially dismantled and stored in a water tight container on board the projected ‘Cruiser’ class of submarine, such as U139 and U155.
It was to be removed from its container, assembled quickly and launched whilst the submarine was on the surface.
After the flight, the submarine would surface again, the aircraft loaded, dismantled and stowed in its container, after which the submarine could submerge.
The aircraft was intended to be prepared for flight or stowing in less than 2 minutes and was to be stored inside the container which measured 20 feet long and 6 feet in diameter.
However, the intended submarines to be used were never built before the armistice and only three W.20 aircraft were built.
The first version, Ser No:1551, had only fuselage to upper wing support struts.
The second version, Ser No:1552 had interplane struts added between the wings and these struts were wire crossed braced.
In addition the span of the lower wings was increased.
The third and final version, Ser No:1553 had the interplane struts replaced by single interplane struts.

Although this design of Ernst Heinkel never saw operational service, he did design a similar aircraft in 1921, which was known as the Caspar-Heinkel U1.
Two examples were purchased by the U.S. Navy for evaluation.
This aircraft was intended to fit into a smaller space of 18 feet long and 4 feet 6 inches diameter.
The design was a cantilever wing biplane, powered by a 50 hp engine and capable of a speed of 87 mph with a climb rate of 1000 m in 6 minutes.
Four men could dismantle and stow the aircraft in only 22 seconds and reassemble it in only 31 seconds.
One of the aircraft was wrecked when being transported on a truck when the aircraft struck low hanging trees.
Interestingly Heinkel built and sold two examples to the Japanese, who subsequently followed on with this technology in WW2.

Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 07, 2021, 12:30:01 AM
Tagging along Mike  ;)

Very cool subject matter and totally different ! ....I love it ! :)


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Monty on April 07, 2021, 03:46:02 AM
Great choice of subject, Mike! I will be paying rapt attention! ATB, Marc
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: hrcoleman66 on April 07, 2021, 10:31:03 AM
What a cute little machine.

Looking forward to this!

Cheers,

Hugh
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Dave Brewer on April 07, 2021, 03:19:20 PM
Another excellent choice Mike-I have one half-completed but currently in the naughty corner, I'll be fascinated to see how you cope with the challenges it presents.
Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 07, 2021, 08:48:18 PM
Hi all,
I think the biggest problem with this model, apart from the quality and detail of the resin parts, is the lack of reference material available.
I can't find much, apart from a few photographs and especially for the engine installation.

Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Fvdm on April 09, 2021, 02:08:06 AM
What a nice little subject. Maybe four men could dismantle and stow the aircraft in 22 secondse but they still have to wait a couple of minutes for the engine to cool down  ;D
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 09, 2021, 06:52:10 AM
Hi all,
This kit does present the modeler with challenges, to put it mildly.

The supplied kit itself comprises of parts which are solely resin and unlike many more up market companies, ‘Omega Models’ do not reinforce parts, such as wing struts, with metal rods. This makes the supplied resin struts very weak when flexed.
All of the resin parts have mold ‘flash’ that will need to be removed and larger items, such as the wings, do have some warping, which is not uncommon in resin kits.
The kit does not supply many parts required to make this an accurate model, for example an instrument panel, all of the necessary wing float struts, all of the centre engine bearer struts etc.
The lower wing one piece molding is not the correct shape according to the drawings supplied.
The kit parts have no locating pegs or holes, which can cause alignment problems during assembly.
The instructions supplied for assembling the model are virtually non-existent, being only several sheets of photo-copied data with only one section view of the fuselage internal parts.
The remaining sheets are the kit contents and basic three-view drawings and some small colour profiles.The kit instructions do not give assembly instructions, apart from the two side drawings and they only list parts with no exploded assembly views.
Also, some of the information refers to different versions of this aircraft, not the kit supplied Series 2 (1552) model.
The decals supplied are of reasonable quality but are not the normal, ‘cookie’ cut slide transfer. Instead the decals are printed on sheets of carrier which covers the entire sheets.
Therefore if used, each decal will need to be carefully cut out from its sheet before application to the model. Also the surface of these decals is easily damage, such as from being scratched, so if used, care is needed handling these decals.
The kit does supply any ground equipment, such as a basic ‘beaching’ trolley or trestles.

Anyway, The basic hull has been prepared as well as a modified 'Wings Cockpit' figure (LSK 07A).

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/fus2.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/fus3.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on April 09, 2021, 09:03:05 AM
The figure looks good in the cockpit.
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 11, 2021, 04:52:02 AM
Hi all,
Just a quick updated.
The front decking has been fitted and I've added the 'splash' rail around the edge of the hull.
Also the nose 'bump' padding to the nose, neither of which are represented in the kit,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/nose.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/nose1.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: PrzemoL on April 11, 2021, 08:34:39 AM
Fine choice of the subject and a great start, as usual. I will be watching with interest.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on April 11, 2021, 11:25:19 AM
Your usual attention to detail Mike. Well done!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: pepperman42 on April 11, 2021, 01:48:00 PM
Nice start!!

Steve
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 11, 2021, 09:03:57 PM
 :)


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: gbrivio on April 11, 2021, 11:38:47 PM
Very interesting project of a never seen before aircraft. Looking forward to next steps.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: gedmundson on April 12, 2021, 06:16:15 AM
Great start, Mike - looking forward to this one.
Cheers,
Gary
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 15, 2021, 07:50:37 PM
Hi all,
A few updates.
This kit does not have any locating pins or holes for any of the flight surfaces.
These include the ailerons, fin, tail plane, elevators and the rudder.
These are all intended to be 'butt' glued only, which is never a good idea, especially with resin parts.
Although CA adhesive provides a strong bond, it is prone to 'break away' if subjected to shock loading, such as being knocked.
Therefore I reinforced the mating surfaces by adding either 0.3 or 0.5 mm diameter rods and associated holes.
The exception was the elevators, as the trailing edge of the tail plane is way too thin to drill.
For that I cut photo-etch strips to represent the hinges and to support the elevators to the tail plane.
I've also replaced the resin rear decking strips with sanded down plastic card.

The next job is to created rudder and aileron control cable horns and the associated control cable outlets, none of which are supplied or represented in the kit,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/rodpins1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/rodpins2.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/strips2.jpg)
 
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 16, 2021, 12:01:13 AM
Hey Mike ,

Wouldn't it have been easier to cut slots in the elevators for the pins , fill and sand smooth leaving the pins center , if you don't mind me asking ? 

Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 16, 2021, 12:26:44 AM
Hi Alexis,
Good suggestion, but it's the trailing edge of the tail plane that's the problem.
As you can see it's very thin.
The elevators I could drill and pin, but not the tail plane.

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/data/elevthin1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/data/elevthin2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: hrcoleman66 on April 16, 2021, 08:17:14 AM
See?

Problem solving.  My number three reason for modelling.

Nice work Mike.

Cheers,

Hugh
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 16, 2021, 08:19:38 PM
Hi all,
I've added control horns and control cable ports for the ailerons and rudder.
Next up is to represent the aileron control inspection panels, fuselage rear grab handles, wing stacking pads and rib tapes for the tail plane, elevators and ailerons.

None of the above are represented or supplied in the kit.

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/ailhorns1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/ailhorns2.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/rudhorns.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 17, 2021, 12:03:04 AM
Thanks for the reply Mike , wasn't aware on how thin the tail is , that is thin !  So it makes sense now .


Alexis 
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 17, 2021, 08:11:20 AM
Hi all,
The rudder, elevators and tail plane were linen covered structures with rib tapes covering the linen joins.
It is unclear if the fin was covered with wood paneling or linen.
The photographs available suggest that it was linen, as the fin structure can be see under the covering.
So I've gone for a linen covered fin.
Although rib tapes are represented on the wings and ailerons of the kit, they are not represented elsewhere.
Created using 0.2 mm thick plastic card which was then sanded ,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/fincovering.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/tapes.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on April 17, 2021, 11:26:28 PM
Excellent work as always Mike!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 19, 2021, 05:22:42 AM
Hi all,
The kit supplied lower wing needed some major changes.
I used the few photographs available for this aircraft and the drawings in the ‘Windsock’ World War Centenary (Spring 2015, Vol.31, No.1).

Basically the kit wing needed to be modified for the following reasons:
The wing leading edge had more of a swept angle than that moulded on the kit wing.
The centre section of the leading edge had a recess, to allow the forward wing struts and engine support frame to be fitted to the fuselage.
The lower wing and the upper wing had 'stacking' pads fitted into the wing leading edges (2 upper and four lower wing).
The centre cut-out in the trailing edge of the lower wing did not have square corners, but was fitted with quadrant fillet panels.
The upper surface of the lower wing had walk boards fitted at the wing roots.
The rear of the centre section of the lower wing had two slots through the wing to allow fitting of the wing rear struts into the fuselage.  
 
Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/lowwing2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 19, 2021, 10:23:43 PM
Looking good Mike  :)


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 20, 2021, 01:02:56 AM
Hi all,
The lower wing was not fitted directly to the top of the fuselage but was located on four mountings and just clear of the fuselage.
The front a rear wing spars of the lower wing passed across the fuselage through these mountings.
The kit instructions show the mountings, but they are not supplied in the kit.
Therefore representations of the mountings need to be created.
The mountings were made from brackets in the ‘Jadar’ WW1 1:48th scale control horns (S48087) photo-etch set and 0.5 mm diameter Brass rod.
I also used 0.5 mm rod to make the grab handles for the rear of the fuselage, which again are not supplied in the kit,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/grabhandle2.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/lowwingmounts.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/lowwingmount3.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/mountsdone1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/mountsdone2.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/mountsdone3.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Fvdm on April 20, 2021, 05:22:23 AM
Great progress Mike. I like your eye for detail and your research.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: hrcoleman66 on April 20, 2021, 08:10:29 AM
Attention to detail or what???

Cheers,

Hugh
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 20, 2021, 09:52:58 PM
Thumbs up  :)


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 21, 2021, 01:03:40 AM
Hi all,
The inner and outer interplane struts supplied in the kit are resin and without any internal metal reinforcing rods.
This makes the brittle resin of the struts weak and liable to breaking during handling when assembling the model.
Therefore I decided to recreate these struts using 1.0 mm diameter brass rod and 2.0 mm diameter brass tube.
These were formed using my 'Albion Alloy's 'Strutter' tool and then soft soldered.
Below are the outer interplane struts temporarily fitted so I can accurately measure and make the inner interplane struts.

Mike
 
(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/interplane4.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on April 21, 2021, 07:36:35 AM
Excellent progress Mike. Those struts should be Bullet proof!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 21, 2021, 11:43:32 PM
Hi all,
I've now created the inner interplane struts.
The rear struts are fitted to the fuselage through the cut-outs in the rear of the lower wing centre section.

Now onto the tailplane and wing floats support struts,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/interplane5.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on April 22, 2021, 12:40:37 AM
Looking Great Mike!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 22, 2021, 11:52:32 AM
I notice you use black ink to mark on the resin . Does this bleed through the paint over time ? I have many ruined builds because I used ink ..or a sharpie in my case .

Nice work on the details  :)


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 22, 2021, 07:17:14 PM
I notice you use black ink to mark on the resin . Does this bleed through the paint over time ? I have many ruined builds because I used ink ..or a sharpie in my case .

Nice work on the details  :)


Alexis

Hi Alexis,
I know your pain.
I only use pencil these days to mark styrene or resin model parts.
A few wipes with a sanding stick or similar will remove it no problem,

Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 23, 2021, 02:18:26 AM
Hi all,
The tailplane support struts are done.
These were created 0.8 mm diameter brass rod and 1.6.0 mm diameter brass tube.
These were formed using my 'Albion Alloy's 'Strutter' tool and then soft soldered.
Below are the tailplane struts temporarily fitted.

Now to do the last sets of struts for the wing floats,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/interplane6.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Rookie on April 23, 2021, 04:33:08 AM
I've read all the build logs of you beautiful models on your website Mike, and this is another gem to add.

Thank you for sharing another great build with us, there is so much to learn!

Willem

Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on April 23, 2021, 06:37:11 AM
Excellent progress Mike.
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 23, 2021, 06:37:48 AM
Hi all,
The last of the strut work is done.
These are the support struts for the two wing floats.
There will also be bracing wires fitted, but later in the build.
These were created 0.8 mm diameter brass rod and 1.6.0 mm diameter brass tube.
These were formed using my 'Albion Alloy's 'Strutter' tool,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/interplane9.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 23, 2021, 07:43:25 AM
Hi Mike ,

Yes I started using pencil to mark stuff with a few years back . No more sharpies in the hobby room either ..

Making quick work on the struts  :)


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RichieW on April 23, 2021, 08:17:16 AM
That strutter tool was a great investment Mike, you use it to great effect on your builds. Shame they don't seem to make them anymore.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: hrcoleman66 on April 23, 2021, 08:20:34 AM
Nice work.  I have to google the Albion Alloys Strutter tool now.

Cheers,

Hugh
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 23, 2021, 08:25:29 AM
Yeah the 'Strutter' is a handy tool and although is creates more of an oval shape, rather than an aerofoil, It's much better than using just rod.
The problem is that 'Albion Alloy's' used to have a web site with their modeling tools.
However, it seems that they dropped the site as well as making the tools.
If you can find one for sale get it,

Mike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o10w7aVmIk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o10w7aVmIk)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: lcarroll on April 23, 2021, 12:32:11 PM
    "If you can find one for sale get it,"

   ........... and if you don't or find a second one let me know immediately!

Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: hrcoleman66 on April 23, 2021, 04:56:02 PM
Now that I've seen what it is in the Youtube Video, I reckon I can probably set up to make a few.
If demand is that high...  Who knows. Might put them up for sale.

Cheers,

Hugh

Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 23, 2021, 07:24:07 PM
Hi Hugh,
If you could then I imagine there would be modelers interested once the word got out,

Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RichieW on April 23, 2021, 07:27:02 PM
Now that I've seen what it is in the Youtube Video, I reckon I can probably set up to make a few.
If demand is that high...  Who knows. Might put them up for sale.

Cheers,

Hugh

Very much interested Hugh.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on April 23, 2021, 10:30:05 PM
Now that I've seen what it is in the Youtube Video, I reckon I can probably set up to make a few.
If demand is that high...  Who knows. Might put them up for sale.

Cheers,

Hugh

Very much interested Hugh.

Me also  ;D
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 23, 2021, 10:36:37 PM
I as well  :)


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Rookie on April 23, 2021, 11:21:54 PM
Me also, depending on the size.

 ;)

Willem
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RichieW on April 24, 2021, 12:43:13 AM
Haha, this is becoming an 'I'm Spatacus!' moment. Lots of interest Hugh, Mike has truly shown the value of the strutter. :)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: lcarroll on April 24, 2021, 02:30:35 AM
   Add me to the list Hugh, I've been searching for one for less then the price of a Lamborghini for several years now!
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: hrcoleman66 on April 24, 2021, 05:26:12 PM
Guys, let’s not hijack Mikes thread here.  I’ll set up a thread over in the modelling techniques section.  Need to work up a prototype and make sure it all works as it should.  Then I’ll work out what it Costs me to make and what it might cost for postage around the traps.

https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12139.0 (https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12139.0)

Cheers,

Hugh
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 26, 2021, 02:06:56 AM
Hi all,
I've been working on creating the engine support frame, which was located between the centre sections of the upper and lower wings.
Nothing is supplied in the kit for this frame, apart from two bits of wire and a rather rough side drawing of the side of the aircraft.
Quite how 'Omega Models' expect any modeler to fabricate this frame from the kit is a bit of a joke.
Anyway I've made the bottom half of the frame soft soldered from 0.8 mm diameter brass tube using heavily modified 'Connec+o' joiners from 'Albion Alloy's'.
The front under plate at the top of the frame is made from 0.2 mm plastic card and the two rear side filler plates from scrap photo-etch.
The completed frame will also require cross bracing wires to be fitted as well as the engine assembly of course.

Now it's onto the top half of the frame,

Mike


(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/esf8.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: hrcoleman66 on April 26, 2021, 07:59:37 AM
That's very neat metal work there Mike.  Obviously soldering small brass components is not a new skill for you.

Cheers,

Hugh
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 26, 2021, 05:55:55 PM
Thanks - I used to soft solder using traditional liquid flux and wire solder.
These days I just use solder paste, which is a much better way to solder small parts and photo-etch,

Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on April 26, 2021, 10:43:12 PM
This kit seems to be lacking quite a bit but your excellent skills are saving the day!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RichieW on April 27, 2021, 04:01:23 AM
Superb miniature engineering skills Mike, I am so impressed and inspired by your technical abilities.

Richie
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 27, 2021, 08:52:58 AM
Hi all,
The top struts of the engine support frame have been added.
I'm now working on the 'basic' engine installation.
The kit supplied resin engine was a bit rough so is being replaced by a 'Wingnut Wings' 7 cylinder Oberursel U.0 (80 HP), kindly donated for this build by both Mark Elliot and Przemyslaw Litewka.
The engine backing disc was made from 0.2 mm thick plastic card with a 0.5 mm diameter styrene rim ('Plastruct').
The engine shaft is 2.0 mm diameter tube (Albion Alloy's) stepped down to a 1.0 mm internal bore and 1.0 mm rod soft soldered in each end.
The resin breather at the front of the engine shaft was cut from the resin kit part.

Now it's onto trying to figure out the control components fitted on the shaft from illustrations and a couple of photographs,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/eng8.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: gedmundson on April 27, 2021, 10:45:03 AM
Incredible work Mike - amazed by your modelling on this one.
Cheers,
Gary
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Rookie on April 27, 2021, 05:09:05 PM
As always, your build logs are very informative Mike.

There is so much to be learned, and my notebook is filling up quickly!

Willem
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Fvdm on April 27, 2021, 06:12:22 PM
Your metalwork looks great Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on April 29, 2021, 05:08:35 AM
Hi all,
Here's some shots of the basic engine installation.
There's still the engine to finish and pipework and rigging to be added later in the build.
The engine oil pump and HT ignition unit were scratched as was the representation of the carburetor on the air intake.
Inlet holes were drilled around the air intake,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/fus5.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/fus6.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/fus7.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on April 29, 2021, 10:03:41 AM
Thumbs up Mike  :)


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: gbrivio on April 29, 2021, 02:44:41 PM
Great progress on this build, metalwork is awesome.
Ciao
Giuseppe
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RichieW on April 30, 2021, 12:49:46 AM
Wonderful precision as always, I'm really enjoying following your build. Very inspirational!

Richie
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 01, 2021, 02:13:03 AM
Pylon and engine look great in place Mike!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 01, 2021, 02:39:01 AM
Hi all,
Here's the engine and the oil tank with scratch made oil pump and HT ignition unit.
The engine push rods were replaced with 0.6 mm diameter Brass tube and 0.4 mm diameter Nickel-Silver tube.
Ignition leads were twisted 0.125 mm diameter copper wire.
The engine propeller shaft and rear mounting lug were removed to modify the engine with a shaft and different propeller.
There's still various pipework to be fitted, which has to wait until further in the build,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/engdone1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/engdone2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 01, 2021, 02:47:14 AM
Outstanding engine detailing Mike!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: lawqbarr on May 03, 2021, 06:56:03 AM
Mike
Another gem in progress ... I feel your pilot should look a lot happier knowing his airframe is being built by an expert ! Perhaps he's just war-weary ?
I have long admired your refined soldering technique and your results - That support frame for the engine on this W-20 is another excellent example of your careful research and technique
Not asking for a full "How to",  but would you please tell us all what tools you you use to solder - specifically
brand of soldering iron
working temperature or temp range you use
type of solder (brand and blend - %age of Pb [lead]  Sn [silver] etc ... )
brand of flux/ paste
I apologise if I have missed this information in your previous posts either here, or in the build articles you generously publish on the Mike's Models site
Kind regards
David
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 03, 2021, 08:19:00 AM
Hi David,
Thanks.
As usual a fully detailed build log will be published when the model is complete.
In the meantime, to answer your questions:

Soldering Iron - WEP 60W Soldering Iron Kit Welding LED Indicator Light Adjustable Temperature
200℃-450℃, ON/OFF switch, 3 LEDs Light, CE Approved (Ebay)
Solder - CHIPQUIK Solder Paste, 50g Jar (RS Components)
Tube - Brass from 'Albion Alloy's'
Tube joiners - 'Connec+o' joiners from 'Albion Alloy's'

The 'Connec+o' joiners are used to form frame shapes but the joints still need to be soft soldered (or CA adhesive).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYTBReJPK-Q

However, they do make most framework easier to assemble and solder, especially soldering small components.
I use solder paste rather than the traditional 'wire' solder and flux.
The paste is flux paste mixed with tiny balls of solder. which when heated flows easily into joints and without over-soldering the joint, so less clean up required.

Basically, form the framework using tubing and where necessary the 'Connec+o' joiners.
Then apply a small amount of the Solder Paste to the joint.
Set the soldering iron temperature to around 300℃.
Touch the joint and the solder paste melts and flows.

The stuff I use is not specific and other soldering irons and solder pastes are available and will do a similar job,

Mike
 



Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: lawqbarr on May 03, 2021, 08:52:15 AM
Hi Mike
Many thanks for that and for your unasked for additional tips - I didn't recall the Connec+o joiners though you have mentioned them before - Another handy reminder !
I sincerely feel humbled by the generosity and willingness of the members of this community of modellers to share their knowledge of the technical and arcane
Kind regards
David 
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: kensar on May 03, 2021, 10:26:20 PM
Outstanding work, Mike.  You have a great eye for detail and you know how to create those details.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RichieW on May 03, 2021, 11:51:51 PM
Great work Mike, thanks for posting your soldering set up. This is something I am keen to try too.

Richie
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Manni on May 04, 2021, 06:05:50 AM
Super clean work, Mike.
I love floatplanes and I think this will be a great model.
Bye, Manni
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 09, 2021, 06:28:59 AM
Hi all,
I've applied the decals to the model.
The base colour, despite most profiles showing it a light blue, was more probably the standard light grey.
This was 'Tamiya' Medium Sea Grey 2 (XF83) lightly airbrushed over a Dark Sea Grey (XF54) base coat.
The kit supplied lozenge decals were replaced with ‘Aviattic’ linen effect Lozenge (ATT32113).
Undersides of the flight surfaces were covered with ‘Aviattic’ linen weave effect (ATT32236).
The instrument panel was scratched using plastic card, decal from 'Airscale’ Generic WW1 instruments (AS32 WW1) and bezels from ‘Airscale’ Instrument Bezels (PE32 BEZ).
I decided to cut out and use the kit supplied markings, despite them being very fragile and not 'cookie' cut.
Light weathering was done using 'Flory Models' Dark Dirt and Grey fine clay washes.
Everything was sealed with 'Alclad' Light Sheen (ALC-311) clear coat lacquer.
Other weathering was then applied using 'AK Interactive' Kerosene (AK2039) and 'Tamiya' Weathering Master Set D  (Oil stain).

Now it's onto pre-rigging before assembly can start,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/decaldone1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/decaldone2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on May 09, 2021, 07:51:05 AM
Must say Mike , you are making quick work with this one . She is looking fantastic !

Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 09, 2021, 11:02:14 AM
The decals look excellent. Well done on the painting also.
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Manni on May 09, 2021, 05:04:55 PM
Fantastic work. The colors and the naval lozenge looks great, Mike.
Bye Manni.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 12, 2021, 12:36:32 AM
Hi all,
All of the pre-rigging has been added prior to assembly of the model.
The line used is 'Stroft' 0.08 mm diameter mono-filament with blackened 0.4 mm diameter Brass tube from 'Albion Alloy's'.
All of the lines have yet to be tensioned and turnbuckles to be painted, which can only be done after assembly of the various parts.


Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/prerig1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/prerig2.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/prerig3.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/prerig4.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/prerig5.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/prerig6.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/prerig7.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: kkarlsen on May 12, 2021, 01:47:53 AM
Beautiful work Mike!!

Kent
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: PrzemoL on May 12, 2021, 03:14:25 AM
Oh my... how I love watching your builds. And here is another treat!
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RichieW on May 12, 2021, 03:23:10 AM
Love that rigging method, very precise work as always.

Richie
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 12, 2021, 05:26:05 AM
Hi all,
Now the fun begins,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/wingon2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: DaveB on May 12, 2021, 06:34:40 AM
Wow - this is coming on a treat, Mike

Good luck on the next bit!

Regards

Dave
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Manni on May 12, 2021, 07:00:53 PM
Mike, this looks terrific! The rigging is really clever. The plane looks great. Looking for the next steps.
Bye,
Manni
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 12, 2021, 09:35:35 PM
That is a lot of Buckles Looking fantastic Mike!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Fvdm on May 13, 2021, 03:29:34 AM
Nice start on the rigging.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 13, 2021, 10:16:26 PM
Hi all,
The engine assembly and its support frame are now completed.
I've added representations of the pipes to and from the cockpit 'pulse meters', oil tank supply pipe, HT supply lead and carburettor control cable and lever.
I've also added the fuel supply pipe from the upper wing fuel tank to the carburettor, but this can't be connected until the upper wing is fitted.

I just wonder how companies like this expect modelers to be able to create the engine support frame from two pieces of wire and a rough drawing of the area, which is actually on the only 'instruction' sheet supplied.
Hey-Ho - moving on - Next up is the fitting of the upper wing,

Mike .

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/instructions1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/instructions2.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/engfinished1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/engfinished2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: kensar on May 13, 2021, 10:19:40 PM
All this work looks great, Mike.  You're usual attention to detail will certainly pay off in the end by being very visible here.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on May 14, 2021, 12:06:14 AM
That's all the wire in the kit ? Not even close enough to build the engine/wing struts  :o Either way Mike your version turned out fantastic , looking forward on seeing the top wing mounted .

Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 14, 2021, 03:53:30 AM
Alexis - just for you,

The upper wing is now fitted.
The ailerons as well as the tail unit have yet to be fitted.
Now onto the rigging !!

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/topwingon.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Rookie on May 14, 2021, 05:17:53 AM
What a beauty this is becoming  Mike!

Already started taking notes on the rigging...

Looking forward to the end result.

Willem
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 14, 2021, 07:25:20 AM
Looks Terrific as a bi plane! This is another fine piece of Modeling on a kit that lacks finesse in some areas...like that engine mount  support frame!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on May 14, 2021, 10:54:02 AM
Thanks Mike  :) :-*

 She looks fab !!!


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 15, 2021, 01:30:52 AM
Hi all,
The rigging for the wings and ailerons is done.
'GasPatch' 1:48th metal turnbuckles with 0.08 mm diameter mono-filament and blackened 4 mm diameter tube.

Now onto the tail unit,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/wingrig1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/wingrig2.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/wingrig3.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Rookie on May 15, 2021, 01:40:45 AM
Great job on the rigging Mike!

And, is it me or does the gravety tank look different than in earlier pictures?

Willem
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 15, 2021, 02:07:14 AM
Hi Willem,
It's you  ;D - the tank hasn't changed,

Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 15, 2021, 04:47:21 AM
The assembly all coming together really looks great Mike! The rigging on the struts and engine support frame isAwesome!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RichieW on May 15, 2021, 05:12:58 AM
This could well be my favourite of your builds so far, it's looking like a real show stopper.

Richie
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 15, 2021, 06:15:03 AM
Hi all,
The tail unit with elevators and rudder is done.
Bracing and rudder control cables are 0.08 mm diameter mono-filament with blackened 4 mm diameter tube.

Apart from the propeller, that's the aircraft completed.

Now it's onto creating a beaching trolley and the figures,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/taildone1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/taildone2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 15, 2021, 07:37:31 AM
Superb build Mike!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Fvdm on May 15, 2021, 04:21:55 PM
Hi all,
The rigging for the wings and ailerons is done.
'GasPatch' 1:48th metal turnbuckles with 0.08 mm diameter mono-filament and blackened 4 mm diameter tube.

Now onto the tail unit,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/wingrig1.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/wingrig2.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/wingrig3.jpg)

Wow, what a superb build Mike. Really a masterpiece. When I look at the last pic in this post it seems like the support frame on the left side is out of position. But it could also be I'm totally wrong.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 15, 2021, 07:40:04 PM
Hi Fvdm,
Yes that cross member is not parallel to the fuselage.
It was, but at some point during construction the frame tilted slightly and I didn't notice it.
Unfortunately, it's too late to rectify it now without wrecking the model :(

Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: DaveB on May 16, 2021, 02:11:27 AM
Mike -

This looking stonkingly good - wonderful rigging

Regards

Dave
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 16, 2021, 03:03:25 AM
Hi all,
As the aircraft had a beaching trolley and of course the kit does not supply one, I scratch built it.
Made from 0.8 mm thick plastic card, Axle is 1.8 mm diameter tube with 0.5 mm rod support brackets.
Wheels are from the ‘Kellerkind’ Tail Skid Trolley (54/077).
Padding bead is 0.5 mm diameter styrene rod from 'PlusModel'.
The three leaf suspension on both sides of the axle are made from three 0.2 mm thick plastic card strips.

Now onto the tail trestle,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/trolley3.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/trolley4.jpg)

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/trolley5.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 16, 2021, 03:36:55 AM
Nicely done Mike. You certainly made quick work of that Trolley!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 16, 2021, 05:53:02 AM
Hi all,
And the tail trestle, made from thin balsa wood,

Mike

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/trolleytrestle.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 16, 2021, 06:32:51 AM
Outstanding build Mike!
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on May 16, 2021, 07:08:42 AM
Fantastic job on the breaching gear !

Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Fvdm on May 16, 2021, 05:21:24 PM
Fantastic job on the breaching gear !

Alexis

+1
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Manni on May 16, 2021, 05:59:00 PM
Superb quality from an excellent modeler.
Bye, Manni
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 16, 2021, 07:34:24 PM
Fantastic job on the breaching gear !

Alexis

Had to chuckle Alexis - 'breaching'  :o

Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on May 17, 2021, 05:51:26 AM
Chuckles are always good Mike , keeps us young at heart  ;)


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: PrzemoL on May 17, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
Another beauty approaches completion. It is always a pleasure to watch you modelling.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 19, 2021, 09:42:03 AM
Hi all,
I'm just waiting for the display case and propeller to complete this build.
As soon as it is done I'll post some photographs.

Thanks to everyone who followed and commented on this build - much appreciated,

Mike
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on May 21, 2021, 07:39:30 PM
Hi all,
I forgot the figures.
I'm not much of a figure painter, but I add them to my models primarily for scale effect.

Mike

‘Wings Cockpit Figures’ - (Seated pilot LSK 07A) - butchered somewhat to fit into the cockpit.

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/Fig3.jpg)

‘Elan 13’ Miniatures German Naval pilot WW1 (EL19).

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/Fig2.jpg)

‘Elan 13’ RFC Mechanic WW1 (EL41) - removed the RFC forage cap making him bald.

(https://www.thatoneplease.co/buildlogs/HB-W.20/Fig1.jpg)
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: RAGIII on May 21, 2021, 08:03:11 PM
Nicely done figures Mike! I especially like the bald Guy  8)
RAGIII
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: kensar on May 21, 2021, 09:41:18 PM
Nice work on all the pieces, Mike.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Alexis on May 21, 2021, 10:20:49 PM
You are far better then I'm at painting figures Mike , they look fantastic !


Alexis
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Fvdm on May 22, 2021, 04:17:41 AM
I think your figures look great. I wish I could paint figures like that.
Title: Re: 1:32nd scale Hansa-Brandenburg W.20
Post by: Mike Norris on June 09, 2021, 04:21:25 AM
Hi all,
Shots of the completed model are now up in the 'Completed Models' page.
Thanks for everyone's encouragement and comments throughout this build,

Mike