forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Bughunter on December 30, 2020, 06:56:48 AM
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Ansaldo SVA 5
With the finish of the last project of the little Fokker D.V I can't find motivation to continue to work on a shelf queen, so I started another one.
I have not yet build a model from a short run kit of the company Fly, but have some in my stash. So I decided to build a elegant Italian biplane: Ansaldo S.V.A. 5 Early in 1/48, kit 48006.
Sorry, I forgot to take pictures of the sprues and other kit content, but there is a review here: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/75328-ansaldo-sva-5-early-and-late/
On Scalemates I found a great walkaround of this bird in Vigna Di Valle museum.
I'm not sure about historical correctness, but I decided to try to replicate that aircraft.
My reference will be the Windsock Datafile Nr. 40.
The Fly kit matches the drawings very nicely.
(https://www.scalemates.com/books/img/7/9/5/103795-10000-88-pristine.jpg)
At the beginning I made some detail work.
For a more living aircraft I cut the ailerons and made new hinges.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1kGArakOYWCSeMri1xxE-mzwlZ0o9EO7Y)
The same with the tail plane, but instead of styrene I used here 0.2mm nickel silver. Can be filed in form and still do not look liek golden brass.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1-jbWPdDKwGh4A9611fGx6QTG06eKdTr8)
The kit contains some resin exhaust outlets with mount plates on the back, but I made real metal open pipes, which can be mounted after painting of fuselage.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1N1TJnVv6pD3H8DQL-uVm3U62srjtRMBn)
As on my other projects I sanded an air screw, here in front view.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=12H5bKYVkLkjLkMW0MRLHbdEfFfejZFzs)
The back side is more nice.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=18HNriKUxEQa-CCz6fcWl1YiASawZYlTf)
Some work on axle and bearing, in a side view.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1shWNM9DFQAyBvD_DSYgSSKzRWkC0RDKE)
I think this will look nicely later and is able to rotate easily.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=105XJA8bnfgfN4Es4q4p0rrTn_V4Ty4Xs)
And now a completely new story for me: please fasten your seat belts!
A block of eight soldered brass PE stripes.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1z-pltCaQNswriy97YIyGQO77Pi4qNBAd)
Filed and drilled into the left block, also another block of 12 plates.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1sDkrOYDsXYJvbB53t1ri3B2SDAjPNlBy)
De-soldered into single plates, bend them and soldered onto the base plates.
On top right some work is needed for a different type.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1yFv1TcdTPxum32AH-Ac2wvethwIAEmmj)
A huge amount of wooden struts needs to be sanded into final shape.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1NF_Mxn0zbYz8u3VFWxmbgjBecPAEOL-u)
One working example: the flat, not shaped end of a strut is bolted into a holder.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1xh2eG2HiGdaUKXdYjUsMzjsPgTDXu6Oa)
Damn, this was a lot of work, but I hope it will enhance the look of this elegant biplane!
I would be very happy if one or the other accompanies me on this journey. ;)
Cheers,
Frank
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Looks like another winner already, and a very clever way to make multiple, identical parts.
Best of luck, will be paying close attention as I have this one in the stash.
Hidde from Holland
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Frank,
The SV5 is a very attractive aircraft and one of my favorites. I really look forward to your build.
Kevin
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That's some real nice detailing. And in 1:48, terrific.
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This is fascinating Frank, you certainly think outside the box with your improvements.
Cheers,
Dave.
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You’re a machine Frank!
Some beautiful additions there.
Guy
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Another Awesome Start on a Beautiful Biplane! Your prop and all of those fittings are superb!
RAGIII
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Another little masterpiece on it's way from your capable hands, Frank! I do love your approach to the struts - lots of practical ideas and inspiration. The propellor is gorgeous! ATB, Marc.
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Welcome Hidde, Kevin, Ferry, Dave, Guy, Rick and Marc to the show! Thank you very much for your kind words; it is good to know you behind me 8)
That's some real nice detailing. And in 1:48, terrific.
Due to the small scale it may be not 100% true scale, but I want to show the technical solutions on my models.
I forgot a picture of the kit struts:
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1wDQXljc1D95ryK3Qnv1lQV0QgbEz8cr7)
No, that do not fulfill my signature, so I had to do something about it ;)
This is fascinating Frank, you certainly think outside the box with your improvements.
What a wonderful statement, Dave! "think outside the box" has sometimes touch of craziness ;D
Cheers,
Frank
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Great start, Frank! This is going to be another beauty. Will you finish her this year?
Andreas
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Welcome Andreas! Not this year, but I have some days beginning of January, so may be at the end of my holiday ;)
Undercarriage
Let's continue in the same style!
The parts for the undercarriage. Wanted to have a longer metal axle, to show open pipes on the side of the wheels.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1Z2V7YmvjNhUZBv1UXxgyAYwz48DuweTP)
A new axle, with washers created on lathe, but not yet fixed in place. But how to fix this new axle on the "board"?
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1GuxNPfGgDIsqj07G8FUKLEiCDzVTxUaD)
This ends up in new scratch work! I squeezed brass pipes and bend them into the needed angle. This was hard work! I drilled holes and soldered brass pins into it as suspension holders.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1JczxunmP3ZH051y3wKn2xMDXBzEfMMu4)
I made a new wooden board and added side pins to the brass parts, with matching holes in the board. The washers on the axle are soldered to final position.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1rWg3B_ZCzIPDpceI-ppLOfeTwBvmqrC7)
Plugged together:
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=14u8ktVXkqkY5dAr6FZ_IH0svP0C8jBhv)
And in a side view for better understanding:
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1gJwRBrHd6EX0lBFOD_zotov6x27vZX74)
A reference is really helpful!
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1_eJxT5KMKdqwAHCqzATjKG6fYW35EHMm)
In raw form. Later I finalized the shape a bit more.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=11uTvK3qqdOVyOLbGP--xg7k3tV-oO6Cg)
Axle was cleaned and tinned and wooden parts painted.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1V3C6w9UbqCG6MJ5ZOTh_ajg06jKvBne4)
My plan is to paint the undercarriage flat black and scratch it to show the wood.
Cheers,
Frank
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Fantastic work on creating new undercarriage components Frank :)
Alexis
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If I were the Jealous type I would be really pissed about how great your work is in all respects. Damn Frank, that is some awesome work! Not Jealous, but certainly inspired to do better!
RAGIII
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Looking like 1:1 scale Frank, we know your wonderful skills but this time you raised the bar once more.
Great engineering work on the attachment plaques.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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An amazing amount of detail work going on here and of the highest quality, loving your build and am looking forward to seeing what you 'fix' next
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Breathtaking like all of your brass-n-woodwork. I‘ll place an order for my next 1/32 fuselage...! ;D
Andreas
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Thx Alexis!
If I were the Jealous type I would be really pissed about how great your work is in all respects. Damn Frank, that is some awesome work! Not Jealous, but certainly inspired to do better!
Rick, very kind of you! You are a strong supporter of my builds, thank you!
we know your wonderful skills but this time you raised the bar once more.
Thank you Giuseppe, I'm surprised, that this is still possible. But with such nice references I can try to do it better.
and am looking forward to seeing what you 'fix' next
:D I should start to work on the cockpit, so that the fuselage can be closed soon ::)
I‘ll place an order for my next 1/32 fuselage...! ;D
In _that_ huge scale? I don't think that will work because I don't have such a crude tool. 8)
Does anyone has a information about the tail skid? It looks like a laminated spring. On some b/w pictures in the Datafile it looks like wood, but on colored paintings it looks like metal? The pictures of the museum aircraft I have don't show that detail.
Thanks in advance!
Cheers,
Frank
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Should be a steel leaf spring. trying to get a better image and pm.
Giuseppe
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I miss a day on this site and you have remastered half a kit in that time! As usual Frank, you leave mere amateur modellers like me standing and gasping for breath with your wood and metal working skills. I think that I will stick with 1/72 scale where the lack of detail on my models is less obvious.
Stephen.
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woa!
i am stunned by such a great amount of craftmanship!
ciao
edo
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Here is a picture I took at the Italian Air Force Museum:
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I also put some pictures in the WWI aircraft section of this website, so that you can use them for reference.
I did not want to hijack your thread with detail photos of the real aircraft...
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Ansaldo SVA 5
And now a completely new story for me: please fasten your seat belts!
A block of eight soldered brass PE stripes.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1z-pltCaQNswriy97YIyGQO77Pi4qNBAd)
Filed and drilled into the left block, also another block of 12 plates.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1sDkrOYDsXYJvbB53t1ri3B2SDAjPNlBy)
De-soldered into single plates, bend them and soldered onto the base plates.
On top right some work is needed for a different type.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1yFv1TcdTPxum32AH-Ac2wvethwIAEmmj)
What an excellent idea! I am going to have to give that technique a try. Let's see, a spot of solder paste, stack, and with either a soldering iron or a hot air tool - heat then cool. Sounds easy enough but I am sure there will be a pretty steep learning curve and practice makes perfect.
The challenge is in the "how do you hold this thing?" when making these small bits. I have done something similar using CA to glue a number of tiny bits together while I filled and drilled away on them. A bit of CA debonder or acetone will separate the finished bits. I also often use a CA chuck ( AKA CA arbor or wax chuck ) on my lathe.
For those that don't know or might be intrigued on what a CA chuck is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0svTlISjr3s
and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMh1mYmCb00
This gentleman has some very interesting videos detailing his clockmaking activities with much detail of how to and making his own tools.
cheers, Graham
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Thank you Stephen, edo, ermeio and Graham!
ermeio, thank you for the helpful pictures! I added my references to the new thread.
What an excellent idea! I am going to have to give that technique a try.
I used and showed it sometimes, also with milling or on lathe that block if the parts are big enough. Self made PE for the poor ;D
Cheers,
Frank
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Well Frank - the work shown here is in a league of it's own. Hats off to you for your display of incredible skill.
Cheers,
Gary
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I don't have any superlative to say how impressed I am with your work!
RAGIII
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Wow, Frank! Your work is an inspiration and an education. I follow closely with much pleasure... Just lovely! Great to see how much useful information the members of this site do provide... ATB, Marc.
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Wow, thank you for your great feedback!
Well Frank - the work shown here is in a league of it's own. Hats off to you for your display of incredible skill.
Gary - thank you very much for your highly motivating words! And such feedback from a great modeler and painter like you, another wow.
Only a model builder can understand what is really behind it. My wife partly and some friends not really.
Great to see how much useful information the members of this site do provide...
Exactly Marc! Originally I wanted to work on the cockpit, but with the new infos I have done the tail skid 8) I have to work on the pictures and a updated will follow soon.
Cheers,
Frank
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Tail skid
My first update in the new year. With the new information, it was too tempting to turn to the tail skid immediately :)
On the left the tail skid from the kit, on a picture in the Datafile. The size was according to the drawings, but the plastic is very brittle. So I had to replace it anyway to be able to travel to exhibitions.
I made a laminated spring from nickel silver (brass was too soft) and prebend every single layer of different size. At the end of the block I soldered the layers together. The clamp was made from a thinner nickel silver stripe, bolted with 0.33mm nickel silver. As final step the spring was chemical browned ("brünieren" in German).
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=115amTUg47KDa776MMGzY7rHfuDNGiPM0)
Again in a side view.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1k6Fk4qayn5PAjD7IK4zDPUc19itOb5aB)
The holding clamp to the fuselage was made from two "U". After a lot of drilling and filing I soldered the second thin "U" for strengthening to one side. I filed also the end of the spring more flat and soldered it into the U. The little wedge is made from real wood.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=17IN8wpabofk3o6PBCEKPrM85tXdpFIcI)
The wedge was glued onto the spring. The whole tail skid is here plugged on to the fuselage and can be later mounted with five little "bolts" on each side, as on ermeios picture.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1s5sYIVtJwRndQQ-qhAndjPIEG6FMDAcY)
I used the upper sides of the second "U" as mounting points for the tailplane struts, since I was not able to cut and bend out the ear as on original mount due to the small scale.
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1MrQOA563omUfe5ruUON-jHv47QKGb8HA)
And because it's so nice, here's how the tail skid can support the fuselage even without bolting it on ;)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1E6EGqXtWHP4RGTN1YVT2GlHH2hVgPZ-y)
I am satisfied with the result - this is one of the nicest detail I ever made. It's really fun when you guys are egging me on too 8)
Yes, I know: The Datafile shows 5 laminations, but ermeios picture only 4 ??? And my sheet was a little bit to thick, but so the spring is very robust now!
Cheers,
Frank
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Fabulous Frank,
I wouldn’t dream of detailing to your level - hats off to you.
Guy
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It's a real one, just dramatically smaller. Fabulous!
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Fabulous Frank,
I wouldn’t dream of detailing to your level - hats off to you.
Guy
I would "Dream" but that is as far as it would go :o Brilliant as always Frank!
RAGIII
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Looking forward on seeing how you tackle the tail skid ;)
Alexis
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Thank you Guy, Giuseppe, Rick and Alexis!
It's a real one, just dramatically smaller.
Mission accomplished, motto of signature fulfilled. ;D
Looking forward on seeing how you tackle the tail skid ;)
But I did ... :o ... It took me a moment to understand your joke ;D ;D ;D
Cheers,
Frank
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Really Frank, you put the rest of us to shame with your fabulous details.
Stephen.
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Great tailskid Frank. You say you used nickel-silver. Do you solder this with tin of with silver?
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Thank you Stephen and Fvdm!
Nickel silver (in german "Neusilber" meaning new silver) is a cheap replacement of silver. It is a copper alloy with nickel and often zinc, so it can be soldered with normal solder.
I like it because of the more metallic look compared to brass and it is harder. There are also some PE sets in this alloy available.
I had some discussion with Giuseppe about the struts and gear, about wood or metal. He told me it was metal, but I still think it was wood for the following reasons:
- The Datafile reports a shortage in Italy in vital aviation materials, including high grade steel. So the SVA 5 was developed "to achieve strength by design rather than by materials."
- I found a nice cut away 3D graphic (can't be linked here) show the parts in wood:
https://www.hubertcance.com/large-multi-view/Aircraft-Cutaways-Before-1918-Prints-Roundels/3017740-51-220815/PaintingAnsaldo-SVA.5- - There is a walkround:
http://forum.tantopergioco.it/discussion/5299/walkaround-piccolo-ansaldo-sva-5-vigna-di-valle
showing that image. For me the fine structure of the strut looks like wood.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a487/watpg/SVA%205/SVAVdV-38_zps327c2c9f.jpg) - a picture in attachment show wood below the scratched paint on the undercarriage
Ok, now the bad news.
There are so many things to be changed on this project, where I don't have solutions yet. To avoid that it kills my mojo I put it to the shelf for now.
Cheers,
Frank
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Sorry to hear you lost your Mojo on this one Frank. I am sure when you go back it will continue to be amazing!
RAGIII
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I think we have all had this happen to us during a build and it gets put aside until the info we need comes .
I tend to agree with you on that the struts are made of wood . very evindent in your last photo on the landing gear with the chipped paint .
Alexis
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Thanks for the clear answer Frank.
I think in time the solutions come to your mind so you can always pick this one from the shelf.
About the struts, the chipped paint on the landing gear shows a brown color. In my eyes this could easily be rust. The fine structure you see could be cast metal. I'm not sure what the struts are made of but maybe it doesn't matter, it's gonna be painted anyway.
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Further attachment
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Frank, I hope not to be misleading. Having a further look at the SVA monography I still believe the struts were metallic. I hope not to infringe any copyright while posting some pictures.
As you can notice in the wrecked planes, struts are bent, not broken, nor burned and in my opinion this can be evidence of metal stuff, not wooden. As a matter of facts, Ansaldo main business was shipbuilding, so probably they found easier to source metals then aviation industries of the time. Just my opinion.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Further attachment
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Last attachment
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As a last speculation: maybe contractors, field maintenance shops and restorers, specially if restoring not airworthy planes made use of wooden struts for saving money, time and tools. But I'm not a deep expert so this, again counts just as an opinion. All the best.
Giuseppe
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Thanks!
A interesting discussion, and all of you points are valid.
Cheers,
Frank
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Just another opinion. I believe they are metal because of the small dimensions of the struts and the 3 rivets suggest there is a reinforcement on the inside of the strut end, so the inside would be hollow for the reinforcement. The chipped paint reveals primer under the top coat. The one bolt that attaches the strut to the wing would simply pull apart if stressed if the strut was wood.
It could be that over the production period, the struts were changed from metal to wood at some point, but this is pure speculation.
The landing gear are definitely wood, or possibly wood covered metal. I believe this was common to get an aerodynamic shape with the use of cheaper round cross section metal tubing.
Anyway, it's another opinion.
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Thanks for your thoughts Ken!
This converted to a more or less scratch project, but I need more ideas. Due to the already spent effort I will continue on it for sure, but not now. Like the Deperdussin Monocoque last year - frustrated by the fuselage so put it on hold, but finished later the year.
Cheers,
Frank
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Hi!
First of all you're building a gem from this kit.
Nothing to add apart compliments on your build.
I have only to say that SVA's had wing struts made of metal and landing gear ones made of wood.
Wooden struts of landing gear were inserted into U-shaped metal caps within which the axis of the landing gear is located. It can be seen well in the photos.
I agree with Mr. Brivio and the photos he posted showing what I wrote.
Hope useful!
Roberto
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I can add that with reference to the Official Catalogue of Parts, the wing struts of the SVA are listed among the Metal components
http://www.cmpr.it/MN%20-%20Nomenclatore%20SVA%203%20ali%20rid.%20e%20SVA%205%20-NL/nom.SVA%203-5.htm
BUT if you look at the photos their appearance is very woody so I think that your work is not to be trashed or completely redone - just sand the wooden struts smooth and paint them black. They will loose their magnificent aspect, but you will spare time remaining realistic.
I will post some pictures to support my point of view.
Had I no access to the Official Catalogue of Parts I'd have bet for wood based on the photos and on their appearance (I've been at the museum a lot of time and I was sure they were made of wood...)
er.me.