forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: lone modeller on October 18, 2020, 06:16:21 AM
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Evening All,
There seems to be an increased interest in triplanes among WW1 modellers at the moment, probably because Meng have released the WnW Fokker triplane after the latter company ceased trading earlier this year. It was in discussion about this topic in another thread on this forum where I found out about another, and in my opinion much more interesting, triplane from Siemens Schuckert Werke. Most people will probably be like me and not heard of this machine, but it was the product of the "triplane craze" in Germany in late 1917 following the success of the Sopwith triplane on the Western Front. Research has shown that two kits have been released: one in 1/48 scale in resin and a vacuform in 1/72 scale. I do not build in either resin or 1/48 scale, and consider that if you are going to build a vacuform you might just as easily scratch one instead. For those of you who are not familiar with this machine there are more details here: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Siemens-Schuckert_DDr.I
I have to make my models on a shoestring so I propose to make one of my own using as much scrap materials and left-overs from earlier builds as I can. Here is my kit:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50499061457_d60f371399_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jWqTBp)
The above consists of scrap plastic pieces, some bent 30 thou card for the wings, wood for the propellors, pieces of soft iron wire for the booms: the only new material which I will use will be strip and rod which I already have in stock.
The wings were cut from the bent plastic sheet and the corners rounded and shaped, as was the aerofoil section. Then I added 10 x 20 thou strip for the ribs:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50498197923_8cf30a0789_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jWmsUT)
The wings in the image above are in descending order as per the original aircraft: the lower wing has strip in place and trimmed, the middle wing has untrimmed strip and the top wing awaits the application of the strip. When all the strip is in place and trimmed I will gently sand it down so that it is only just visible.
I made a mould for the fuselage from basswood after I had tried to make a fuselage from plastic sheet. The curve on the top of the nacelle defeated me so I reverted to a tested method and made one by push moulding, using scrap plastic of which I have plenty. I also made two engine nacelles using an old mould which I had made for a Caudron G IV some years ago, and I found a spare spinner from a Dornier flying boat build, also from some years ago:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50499061512_853b724498_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jWqTCm)
I do not intend to put much detail in the cockpit because it will not be visible and anyway no plans survive to the best of my knowledge. This build is not large or particularly complex but I fear it is going to take longer than usual as have a number of issues looming which are going to take me from my favoured activity in the next few weeks, so updates may be erratic and uneven.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Great Choice!
I'll follow with interest!
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I'm following a long on this one Stephen . It is an interesting subject and I do have Spin Models 48 scale kit in the stash and even for that scale she is a good size .
You are off to an excellent start so far with the wings and other bit's . Are you just going to wing it for the details in the cockpit ? I haven't been able to find and ref's for this part of the aircraft .
Terri
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An ambitious looking project that I know you can pull off. Quite an interesting design.
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Haven't posted for a while ... out of time (and motivation for my own projects) :-\
So now I find this project - great subject and a great start! The wings looks like a kit release.
And you are back to your main little scale ;)
I will follow!
Cheers,
Frank
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Excellent start to what is bound to be another Fantastic Model! The wings and other parts are looking great!
RAGIII
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scraps or not i'm sure this will turn in to another superb looking model, following with interest
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Now that's an interesting take on a "pusher"! I've never heard of this one before, looking forward to seeing it come together!
Ian
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Looking good so far. I hadn’t heard of this one before either. It looks like it would be terrifying to land!
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I will follow with great interest, as ever!
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Now that's an interesting take on a "pusher"!
Ian, it's a "pull-push"er :D With a two blade at the front and a four blade in the middle.
It looks like it would be terrifying to land!
That was never necessary. It crashed at maiden flight ::)
Cheers,
Frank
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Evening All,
Thanks to you all for for the encouraging comments - they are very much appreciated. I have managed to make a little progress which I can report upon here. I started by completing the basic fuselage nacelle - I added a seat for the pilot, floor and control stick, and an IP but little else because it cannot be seen. The fuselage will need some cleaning up of the joints as with most push moulds that I make and I suspect that the tube of filler will get a bit of a bash too!
I also made the engines: I cut two circles from 60 thou card and cut the cylinders from 60thou rod. The push rods were made from 20 thou rod. I did not scribe the cylinder cooling fins because again they will not be very visible on the completed model: I am trying to keep this one simple.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50544732078_64b838eddf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k1sXTU)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50545463946_4e596bcf57_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k1wHsj)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50544732053_e4ef3bb24d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k1sXTt)[
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Nice progress Stephen! This is a peculiar aircraft. I especially like the wings.
I will follow this build with interest!
Willem
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Great start. Your ability to create these parts is amazing!
RAGIII
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Evening All
Thanks Willem and Rick for the kind comments: they are much appreciated.
I did warn that progress would be erratic, and life has kept up to expectation as I have not been able to do a great deal even with the new restrictions on outside activity: most of my activities are at home so I am not affected as much as many.
I have made a little progress however, including shaping the nacelle and the cowlings. The latter were push moulded using an old set of moulds I had from an earlier scratch build. The fronts of the cowliings had two large cut-outs and the lower part was removed. To get this arrangement I started by drawing the openings on the front of the cowling mould:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50588370407_912a357ce3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k5jC3T)
I drilled small holes around the edges of the opening and a single larger one in the centre for the propellor shaft:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50588248121_80d1f4d414_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k5iZGv)
I cut around the holes to remove the bulk of the unwanted plastic:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50587536408_32ba48e5bd_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k5fm8A)
and finally cleaned up the openings with a file:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50588248056_7393908016_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k5iZFo)
The lower parts of the fronts of the cowlings were cut away and the units cemented to the nacelle. I had also filed and sanded the joints of the nacelle and then I used a reasonable amount of filler to obscure the joints and some dimples caused by glue deforming the plastic where I had added formers inside. Sanding helped to get the shape and finish that I wanted. A small pice of scrap was used to shape the headrest:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50588248026_63dced02a9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k5iZES)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50588248011_a6f7e8b00b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k5iZEB)
There were two plates at the rear of the nacelle which were to direct cooling air to the rear rotary engine - these were added and the joints cleaned up with glasspaper:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50587501753_d01196aacd_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k5faQ6)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50588370162_4886794169_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k5jBYE)
I have still to add a coaming around the cockpit opening..
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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looking good LM
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Great project, build start is very promising.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Really liking the nacelle. Great job!
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Eggcellent work on the fuselage Stephen ;) :)
Terri
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Stephen, the fuselage with cowlings of your push-pull aircraft looks great!
I guess that is the only type of that time with that feature, and your model is may be the only one too.
For modern times there is the Cessna Skymaster, but that is not a biplane.
Cheers,
Frank
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Evening All,
Thanks EBF, Guiseppe, William, Terri and Frank for the encouraging comments.
Frank there is a vacuform of this in 1/72 scale by Roseplane which I think is probably like hen's teeth these days, and there is a resin kit in 1/48 sclae but I cannot recall the name of the manufacturer - Terri has one. You are correct that this design was unique for the time and the push pull arrangement may well have caused severe instability in the air and therefore the demise of the machine on its first flight. C Dornier had also used the push-pull setup in his flying boats, but they were inline engines, (not rotaries as per this aircraft), and his flying boats were very much larger and therefore i think, more stable in the air.
I did write that this one was going to be slow - well it is being so. Painting of the main components is now complete: the fuselage was painted gloss black before I applied several thinned coats of aluminium (acrylics). This has given a metallic finish but not high gloss which I think would be unrealistic. It has also concealed all of the filler...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50618061936_6fb5945c61_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k7WNiN)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50618169802_1dfd599e9d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k7Xmny)
I think that the black anti-glare panel will need to be made a little wider but that is a simple task. The wings were also painted in acrylics - white with a small amount of Humbrol 103 clear doped linen. The Humbrol piant is much too yellow but when mixed with white a good approximation can be achieved, and different shades are easily mixed. The crosses were home printed:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50617326723_df9f84f24f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k7T2KH)
I am still thinking about how to attach the wings: there are lots of holes that have to be drilled and they all have to line up accurately....
More later.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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This is shaping up nicely, Stephen. At this stage, it may seem to take a long time to make progress, but when the major subassemblies are put together, its obvious that taking one's time was well worth it - at least that's how my builds go.
You brought up an interesting thought about having 2 rotary engines in a push-pull configuration. I wonder if that was a big factor in the design's failure?
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Nothing wrong with taking ones time Stephen ...slow and steady wins the race and you are in the lead !
Really nice work on the fuselage and painting the wings which you nailed the German CDL . Name of the 48 scale manufacture is Spin Models ;)
Terri
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Stephen, your prepared parts looks beautiful!
and there is a resin kit in 1/48 sclae but I cannot recall the name of the manufacturer - Terri has one.
Oh yes, thank you for the hint! Not only Terri, now also me :D
Found one for a fair price on ebay and bought it. Not yet delivered of course, but should arrive soon.
There is still one in US ebay, but for $115 :o That is much to high for the given quality.
Cheers,
Frank
PS: I'm not sure if the seven lives of a cat would be enough to build my huge stash ???
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Did I read right Frank , you bought a resin kit ?
Terri
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As always this one is shaping up to be a Beauty Stephen! I continue to admire your work!!
RAGIII
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Evening All,
Thanks Ken, Terri, Frank and Rick for your encouragement - much appreciated.
Frank: I know the temptation when one sees a new or obscure type. I do not have a stash but I do have a long list of aircraft types that i might like to scratch build - and like you I would need the lives of several cats to have the time to build them all! In addition I would need a much larger house to keep them all!!
I have been dithering with this project because I was not sure how to fix the lower wings to fuselage assembly. I had run through several possibilities in my mind:
1. Fix the lower wing via the V struts to the fuselage, then place the middle wings on the fuselage to measure where the strut holes should be. Drill the holes in the middle wing, attach it to the fuselage and insert the wing struts. Finally add the top wing.
2. Put the middle wing on to the fuselage with the strut holes pre-drilled and struts already in place. Mark off on the lower wing where the struts would be and drill holes, then fix lower wing to fuselage. Add top wing.
3. Drill holes in the three wings, put either the lower or middle wing in place, add the second wing and struts and hope that everything lines up. Add top wing.
Option 3 was not a good one - no matter how carefully things are measured from the plans, models are never exactly the same as the plans and it was very likely that the strut holes would be mis-aligned. So it was option 1 or 2. I decided that because the middle wings have to be butt joined to the fuselage, there was a good chance that they would break off while trying to fix the lower wing into place, so I went for a variation on option 1, except that I drilled the holes in the middle wing before I put the lower wing in place. Not a good idea....
The lower wing went on well - with support the structure dried well and square. The problems started when I tried to fix the middle wings because the strut holes did not line up so I had to fill them and drill new ones. That was a real fiddle, the more so because the forward struts have a distinct bend forwards above the middle wing. After much effort I have fitted the lower and middle wings and struts - now I just have to put the top wing and cabanes into place:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50671836133_1ecb76de3d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kcGpv8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50671836118_d19c907940_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kcGpuS)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50672669662_c73e3717f7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kcLFhj)
I will have to touch in the paint on the wings to conceal where I have filled holes and scraped the existing paint.
The last image shows the top wing ready to put on to the struts: that is not going to be the easiest operation either as there are so many strut ends to cement at the same time. I decided to leave that for a couple of days after all of the messing around with the lower wings. More later.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Stephen,
It's great to see this taking shape.
Kevin
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Stephen, you got this beast under control!
The construction looks complicated - I think my kit will have the same problem.
The top wing has many mounting points! :o With wooden struts and brass pins I used the remaining flexibilty of the wing and started on one side (or from the fuselage to the outer ends) and glued one pair of struts after another into place.
Good luck,
Frank
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I too like quirky designs, but this looks like a nightmare to get everything aligned. Glad to see it taking shape! Are the struts flexible enough that you can start with glueing only the ” four outer corner” (if you know what I mean) struts first and snap the rest in place later?
That dull aluminium sheen looks just right to me by the way.
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I am gobsmacked as always by your work. How you get all of this together Amazes Me No End!
RAGIII
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Looking good! Fascinating aircraft too. It looks like it might fly just as successfully backwards as it did forwards. ;D
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Beautiful work!
Must be a nightmare though to get the wings and struts alligned...
Willem
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Evening All,
Thank you Kevin, Frank, Torbiorn, Rick, William and Willem for the very kind comments. William it might have been as successful flying backwardsas forwards as it crashed on its maiden flight. Perhaps the pilot had pointed it in the wrong direction!
Progress has been interrupted again by life, but I have at last mounted the top wing - with some expected difficulty. I eventually adopted the method of fixing the outer struts first by placing the top wing upside down on the tray, adding drops of liquid cement into the holes and placing the main structure on to the wing. While things were still moveable I slipped liquid cement on to the tops of the remaining struts using the tip of a scalpel blade to reduce the risk of smear on the wing surface. Finally I added some liquid cement to all of the strut joints and left the whole thing overnight to harden.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50713598833_320ac3b990_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kgos6F)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50713598868_469d6e7637_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kgos7h)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50714417862_fac7c68d39_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kgsDyS)
I have started to make the booms - these will be from florists wire. The ends of the upper booms were bent at the rear end so I have already done this in preparation prior to fixing them to the wings:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50714417707_008da06b2f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kgsDwc)
The next step will be to fix the booms and tail unit prior to adding all of the supporting strut work which will be from plastic rod.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Excellent job on getting the top wing wing mounted , she is taking shape wonderfully so far Stephen and I'm looking forward on seeing how the booms turn out .
Terri
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Good luck with the tail booms!
I think the alignment is not an easy task, but you managed the wings - now there are no limits for you.
Cheers,
Frank
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Great job getting all those wings together, Stephen. This does not look like an easy build by any means. The tail structure is very complicated.
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Fantastic progress. I just realised it wasn't 1/48 scale too. :D
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Evening All
Thanks Terri, Frank, Ken and william for your comments. I think that fitting the top wing was the biggest hurdle in this build - fixing the booms and supporting structures by contrast has proved to be straightforward.
I attached the booms to the wings using rapid setting epoxy. I had thought of using superglue but in the past I have had disasters when it came to attaching booms to wings so I avoided that method. I filed shallow grooves in the wings using a round file: this was rotated so that I could avoid hitting the rear of the struts. The upper boom was attached first with the horizontal tail surface set between the rear end of the booms - this was held in place with superglue:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50741697006_0f91408ac0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kiSsGW)
When the epoxy has set after 24 hours I put in the upper cross strut between the booms to help give this part of the assembly strength:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50740959133_101398a395_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kiNFmZ)
Please note that in the above image the model has been inverted onto an upper view of the plan, so that the rear of the lower wing is visible behind the model. The angle of the camera also distorts the view and makes it appear as if the alignment is wrong when it fact it is not. The lower booms were epoxied into place with the rudders: the booms were again attached to the wing with epoxy and the rudders with superglue, thus holding the assembly in place while the epoxy set. To get the correct angle of the lower booms to the wing I used a simple jig to hold the rear of the boom at the correct height:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50740959168_3d2d076283_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kiNFnA)
With the booms, horizontal tail surface and rudders in place and set, it was time to start adding the remaining struts which held the tail lattice together by measuring and cutting plastic rod to fit. All of the struts are of 30thou plastic rod: where they attach to the metal booms I used superglue, the central vertical strut was held with liquid plastic cement:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50741800647_51f0b1b5b5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kiSZvR)
The remaining rear strut assembly was added in the same way as described above:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50740959033_faaea4d17f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kiNFkg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50741800552_b980380300_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kiSZud)
Now I have to paint the struts and booms and add the undercarriage before I start the rigging.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Sorry for My absence from your build. It seems I missed quite a bit Stephen! Your assembly of the wings and booms is fantastic! This one is really taking shape beautifully !
RAGIII
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Very cleanly done, looks all straight and in the correct angle!
I hope the glued connections are robust enough for rigging and transport.
Cheers,
Frank
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Tail end shape up excellent Stephen , rigging should be fun , fair amount on this bird .
Terri
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What an unusual bird this is, and beautyfully built!
Willem
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How goes the battle with the rigging Stephen ? Haven't tangle your self up have you ?
Alexis
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Evening All,
Thanks Rick, Alexis, Willem and Frank for dropping by.
I have been struggling to finish this one for a number of reasons, all of which have sapped energy or caused distractions, hence the long time between the last post and this one. However this is now finished and pictures will appear in completed models shortly.
I put the undercarriage in place first: the wheels were made from discs of card with rod for tyres. The legs were cut and shaped from card, as were the tail skids. I carved the propellors from thick card too - usually I use wood but the small size of these and my inability to focus for any length of time caused me to use plastic instead as this was easier. The props were painted.
Rigging was straightforward except for the wings. Here the wires passed through the centre wing and were attached at the ends of the outer and inner struts. Getting the wires to line up correctly on the top and bottom of the wings was trying to say the least. I did not drill holes because that would have been even more tricky - I had had enough problems with the struts! The booms may look complicated but i fact they were relatively simple - simply cross bracing between the corners, and all went smoothly.
So here is the finished item at last - another odd type in my collection of odd types!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50842727021_84ec57f361_c.jpg)
Thanks for looking.
Stephen. (https://flic.kr/p/2ksNgpK)
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Your rendition shows just how complicated this craft was.
Looking forward to seeing more pictures.
Great job on this, Stephen.
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Awesome out come , looking forward to seeing my photo's of this bird ! :)
Alexis
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Your usual Brilliant scratch building Magic! The aircraft represented is unique as is your Model. Very well done!
RAGIII
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Great, that you finished this odd type of plane! In that small scale, without a kit part! This must be emphasized!
That is really a low distance between surface and lower wing :D
And thanks again pointing me to that type so I was able to find the kit.
Cheers,
Frank
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Thanks Ken, Alexis, Rick and Frank. I have now posted the pictures in the completed models section.
Stephen.
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Very interesting build and a really unusual plane very well reproduced. Thank you for sharing.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Outstanding and excellent rendition of a complex aircraft...
And an amazing subject, rarely seen around...
Thanks for sharing, Stephen
er me
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Thanks Giuseppe and er me for the kind comments.
Stephen.
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Congratulations! What a great result too. There can't be too many who can boast one of those in their collection. :)
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Thanks William. There will be a few lurking in 1/48 scale.
Stephen.
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Beautiful build, but really, really odd looking plane! I'm utterly impressed by all of you scratch builders!
/Fredrik
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Thank you Fredrik. Actually scratch building is not as difficult as it may look - I know that at one time it intimidated me too, but then I started tot ry and was pleasantly surprised to find that it was easier than I had thought.
Stephen.