forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Paper and Card models => Topic started by: smperry on July 20, 2020, 02:49:56 PM
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I will be doing a regular build log on this paper card model. It will be a slow build so don't expect too frequent updates. I really like the lines of the Short 184, although the rigging may suggest the British were experimenting with LSD decades before the Germans. (Anyone have any psychedelic spiders I could borrow when it comes time to rig it?)
I also chose this model because I printed the parts sheets on 3 different thicknesses of paper, typing paper. photo paper and 65 lb card stock. One of the issues I had with the Link Trainer was that I managed to splash some water on it ruining the printed ink. I mixed watercolors and fixed it. Doesn't look so bad in person, but the camera picks up everywhere the color is half a tone off. Dan told me he sprays his parts sheets with Krylon clear and has no water/ink issues. I just happen to have a big can of the stuff.
I sprayed identical parts sheets from each type of paper. I pretty much overdid the typing paper and nearly over did the heavy card stock, but I believe I got the photo paper just right and I will use that, saving the typing paper for small detail parts and the heavy card for stiffeners.
(http://i.imgur.com/uHPCDQj.jpg) (https://imgur.com/uHPCDQj)
Speaking of small details. I am not a purist. I will scratch details, carve struts and add rod or wire reinforcements where needed on my plastic or resin kits and I see no reason not to do it with paper card models. There are some masters out there that can make mind blowing details out of flat bits of paper. My ability to manipulate bits of paper below a certain size is not so impressive, I will try the paper first, but failing that, I will not hesitate to scratch and get glad.
My next step after I spray the rest of the parts sheets will be a thorough cover to cover reading of the datafile. I want the version in CDL that had no rear Lewis gun, but is armed with a torpedo. Lots of checking to do as I am sure there are loads of details I'd wish I'd have known about if I didn't read the DF carefully.
sp
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Great start sp! I agree with your approach, and use whatever works best, be it spare plastic props or wheels, or styrene or wire strip or rod stock. We're multi-media modelers! ;)
What scale is your 184, and where did you get it? I like floatplanes, and particularly the Short.
I will follow with interest and enjoy your progress.
Best regards,
Bob
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Bob
The Short is in 1/72 and it was a freebie download. I forget where, but will search.
I found out the reason for the funky rigging. It was done this way in order for the horizontal tailplane and elevator to protrude through the outer wing bays when the wings were folded back along side of the fuselage for shipboard storage.
I am being good and keeping blade away from paper until I have read the full Datafile. These aircraft served from 1915 through to the Armistice and on into at least 1920, although many individual airframes lasted only a few weeks or months.
sp
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Bob
I got this model from the Landships web site.
http://www.landships.info/landships/models.html#
Look under Wayne McCullough. He has a lot of armor and vehicles, but there a few airplanes at the bottom of the list. You get a choice of CDL or PC12. I also got a nice looking Halberstadt.
HTH
sp
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Wow SP, you don't go halfway when choosing a subject 8) This one should be a blast to watch and even more so to build and rig!
RAGIII
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Quote: "This one should be a blast to watch and even more so to build and rig!" RAGIII
So sez the guy with 3 Spads to rig " :-)
I will likely resort to heat stretched sprue on this one. (assuming I get that far)
sp
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SM!
I built that Short and it turns out well. I also made Wayne's Hannover and Breguet all in 1/72nd. All are fun and just enough challenge. I predict good things. Good plan to take your time and I like the paper experimentation. Nice idea...
Popcorn at the ready...Dan
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Dan
Have an extra hand full or two of popcorn for me. I'm typing one handed while I hold a folded up seat as the glue dries. Tiny little beggars.
I have the Breguet and the Halberstadt in my paper models folder as well as printed out on typing paper. I also got one of his German tanks. That one looks easy since it is basically a box.
sp
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The CDL version of the Short 184 is of 842 which served in the Gallipoli campaign and was noted as the first airplane to launch a torpedo in combat.
The model starts off in a familiar way by having you build the cockpits. Basically a cockpit floor, three fuselage formers, some seat supports, seats and a steering wheel for a total of 14 parts.
(http://i.imgur.com/MKe8dxZ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/MKe8dxZ)
And here are the parts as they come printed on a sheet.
(http://i.imgur.com/vR8t9QK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/vR8t9QK)
They were cut from the photo paper with the exception of the steering wheel and it's column, which was cut from the typing paper. You don't simply cut the parts out. Each one needs to have the edges smoothed with a flat tool. A cheap butter knife is ideal. The blade messes up the paper and leaves a somewhat ragged edge. Smoothing the part realigns the surface of the part with the edge of the part and makes for a much better fit and join along that edge.
It is important to paint the edges of pieces as early in the construction as possible as it is easier to paint a flat edge or doubled over score mark before the piece is glued to other pieces. Not always possible , but definitely preferable. As for paints, I got a 12 tube set of watercolor paint at Walmart for 5 bucks. I use a plastic lid as a palate. The neat thing about mixing watercolors is you simply let the paint you mixed dry. A wet brush instantly reconstitutes it. Very handy.
(http://i.imgur.com/kJ1auCj.jpg) (https://imgur.com/kJ1auCj)
(http://i.imgur.com/fIJPlID.jpg) (https://imgur.com/fIJPlID)
(http://i.imgur.com/sGgvUVd.jpg) (https://imgur.com/sGgvUVd)
Assembly was straightforward with the formers glued to the floor and the seat supports bracing the middle and rear formers. The steering wheel gets a tiny column protruding from a hole in the front former.
(http://i.imgur.com/bRnP9vb.jpg) (https://imgur.com/bRnP9vb)
(http://i.imgur.com/wMCb17D.jpg) (https://imgur.com/wMCb17D)
(http://i.imgur.com/9kKilII.jpg) (https://imgur.com/9kKilII)
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Interest subject , following along !
Terri
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This is really fun to watch. I remember building this one with some fondness as I'd never seen a Short in any form.
Not to hijack but here's mine with a tad of hanger rash... ::)
Dan
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Thanks for posting the photo of your Short. I don't doubt that at some point I will need convincing that it can be done :-)
sp
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I was in a bit of a quandary as to how I should go about skinning the cockpit section just completed. Since I had parts printed on 3 different thicknesses of paper, I wasn't sure if the inner skin with the ink on the inside would cause issues if I used the part printed on photo paper, so after some friendly advice from a chap over on the PaperModes forum I went with the typing paper part for the inner skin and the photo paper part for the outer skin.
This little assembly is very critical since the model grows from each end of it and any errors will grow along with it. When covering bulkheads, (formers), dang I'm starting to talk like a paper card modeler, locating the dead center of the skin and bulkhead is a must. A tiny drop of glue at the center of each bulkhead is all that is needed. Tiny because if it dries a hair off center you can apply a tiny bit of moisture with a toothpick and loosen the glue, (I am using Elmer's white glue for just this reason). You apply the skin taking extreme care to line up the center of the bulkhead with the center of the skin.
(http://i.imgur.com/p5rB4Go.jpg) (https://imgur.com/p5rB4Go)
If you have done the requisite rolling, folding and dry fitting you pretty much have it down pat and have trained the fingers where to hold. Untrained fingers and glue do not mix. Oh, and like they say with flying models, "Be sure to make a left and a right stabilizer". In this case it is, "Make sure you have the ink on the inside".
(http://i.imgur.com/nKD90Lf.jpg) (https://imgur.com/nKD90Lf)
Now the important part. Walk away. Go bother the dog, (safer than bothering Momma). Work on another kit, do anything you can imagine other than touching the just glued and aligned assembly until it is good and dry. You will need to pull and tug on the skin a bit as you glue and hold the skin until the glue sets a bit.
Now the easy part. With the ink on the inside of the inner skin, that centered and tack glued, Just smear a little Elmers along the edge of the front and rear bulkheads and floor board skin and pull the skin down and hold it a few minutes. Don't get in a hurry, let that side dry up a bit and then do the other.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZWXC7mz.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ZWXC7mz)
The outer skin goes on much easier, however care is needed to ensure it is centered in all aspects.
(http://i.imgur.com/XvdAQiO.jpg) (https://imgur.com/XvdAQiO)
I demonstrated watercolors as a means of dealing with the white lines that are the bane of paper models. Here is another way. Watercolor pencils. Much faster and more precise if you have a pencil the right color. You can scrape a little of the watercolor off some pencils and mix it in a small puddle of water to get a match if you don't have a set of the watercolor tubes. I like the pencils because it is easier to control the moisture you transfer to the white paper you are coloring and the hard pencil allows you to smooth and mold a bit.
(http://i.imgur.com/vEf0Fel.jpg) (https://imgur.com/vEf0Fel)
I have no clue what comes next, Oh yeah, go back and color the pilot's cockpit combing not that the photo has been taken.
sp
sp
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That looks great, SP. The photo paper really makes the "wood" pop. I think Marco suggested using this too.
Waiting for more...Dan 8)
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Dan
Thanks. I am fiddling with getting the bottom piece on the cockpit assembly. There is a tiny warp which I am working out, another good reason to heed the instructions and use just enough glue to stick the part and no more.
I am finding out that paper modeling is all very small steps, each one needs your full and direct attention all the way until the glue is dry and needs to be fully completed before starting the next step. Excellent habits to build and and carry over to plastic or any other modeling media. Paper seems more intolerant of being in a hurry than most other modeling media.
I really like photo paper as you get a choice of finish. Scoring it takes caution since to score you need to cut through the coating but not the paper underneath and the coating is harder. Multiple light strokes are needed to make the score without turning it into a cut. Still it works well on this 1/72 kit. Have to see how it works on a larger scale. Anything smaller than 1/72 is too small for me.
I have solved my quest for various thicknesses of cardboard. I took my digital micrometer and stared measuring cardboard food packaging. Momma wanted to know why all the crackers and cereal were in zip lock bags and where the double hockey sticks are the boxes. She just shrugged and grunted when I told her. I guess keeping me occupied and out of her hair is worth a few boxes. I need 0.5 mm and 1.0 mm stock from which I can laminate ant thickness called out on plans.
sp
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What a fascinating tutorial sp! Thanks for the detailed descriptions of your process, and sharing what you picked up from others. I learned a couple of good tips from your post, as I am new to paper modeling also. You are so right about the critical importance of proper alignment of the parts and not rushing. Every time I have a problem with a paper build it is invariably because I have failed to completely and properly align parts when I glue them, and that is often caused by moving to quickly--I just get excited to see what it's going to look like! ::) Thank you for the reminders to slow down, be precise and enjoy the process. I have also learned to stop working and never begin a large or critical step when I am tired or have limited time. Far better to wait until I am fresh and have no other commitments that would make me rush things.
Your work on the Short cockpit, in 1/72 no less, is remarkably nice. It was hard for me to see how it was developing until you closed it up and-voila-there was a lovely Short cockpit. It looks great! Keep going! ;D
Best regards,
Bob
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Wow SP, Your pit and fuselage section turned out great! You seem to be adjusting to the paper Model with little difficulty! I have to imagine that all of your experience with plastic, and RC modeling are proving helpful. Looking forward to the next update!
RAGIII
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Rick
60 years of cutting balsa parts has definitely helped. The cockpit tub came out with a little warp and I'll be dipped if I let it go. I have been slowly dismantling it in an attempt to find the source of the warp. That brought out another good point about photo paper. The coating prevents the glue from penetrating the paper fibers. When at least one side of a glued joint is coated, a sharp blade can be slipped in between and the whole joint popped loose.
I find the mental gymnastics required for visualizing 2 dimensions becoming 3 hard, but they greatly facilitate tuning out all the real world nonsense for a spell. Of course the fix of last resort is to print another parts sheet.
sp
Currently pulling a 9 gee learning curve.
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I pretty much took the cockpit assembly apart trying to remove the twist I managed to create. I never did determine what caused it. I decided to punt and printed another sheet of the cockpit parts. After printing and spraying with Krylon, I spent a relaxing hour cutting out the new parts. Altoids tins make excellent places to safely stash tiny paper parts.
I am thinking about how to ensure the second assembly dries true and square. Some kind of jig/clamp kinda thing. I am not inclined to settle for less than my best efforts. They arein't what they once were, which is why I have to insist I do it as best I can.
I smoothed the edges of all the newly cut parts and used the watercolor pencils to deal with the white edges. I also did a better job of scoring tabs that caused me issues on the first one. everything is tucked away in Altoids tins and I will wait until I figure out how I am going to get the next assembly square and true. In the mean time I am going to work with the original assembly and practice joining it to the rear fuselage just to get the fingers used to the job.
(http://i.imgur.com/g81uvHc.jpg) (https://imgur.com/g81uvHc)
sp
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The second chance offered by these paper kits is a decided advantage! I am looking forward to your second pit and fuselage section!
RAGIII
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Keep cutting away, SP. I think your better scoring will help the squareness. It's amazing how much "memory" and strength the paper has. I find that when I need to make 90-degree folds, it's best to over-fold them and then they settle easier to the angle you want. Some amazing Polish guys and gals lightly wet the paper just at the fold and that gives it a crisp finish too.
Looking great regardless of issues...Dan
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Thanks Rick and Dan, your encouragement helps greatly.
Dan, I have a question. I have read of two methods for scoring a fold. First, very gently cut about 1/3 of the way through and fold with the cut on the outside if the bend. The other is to take a blunted blade such as a table knife or #11 blade that has been ground blunt and emboss a score line on what would be the inside of the fold. The first cuts the paper fibers that have to stretch longer around the outside of the curve, the other way actually stretches them without breaking the paper surface. Which do you prefer for glue tabs as opposed to straight folds across a part?
I think I found some of why my first assembly twisted. Has to do with using photo paper. White glue on a 90 degree joint will form a fillet sloping between the two pieces. The glue doesn't soak into the paper due to the coating, however it does shrink some while drying as is the way of white glue. This causes the fillet to pull the two pieces joined at a right angle to an angle less than 90 deg. On un-coated paper, the glue tends to soak in somewhat and not form much of a fillet, so there isn't much of a pull as the glue dries.
On my current build there are three bulkheads rising at right angles from the floor board. The middle has a slot in the floor matching a very thin bit of bulkhead fitting into the slot. That was easy enough to deal with by making sure there was a tiny fillet of glue on each side of the bulkhead. The pull from each fillet cancelled out and the bulkhead dried at right angles.
(http://i.imgur.com/zVhtEMm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/zVhtEMm)
The bulkheads at each end of the floor board attach so that there can only be one fillet which will pull the front bulkhead back over the floor board and pull the rear bulkhead forward over the floor board. It is only a couple of degrees, but serves to mess up the fit of the skins as they are applied over the dried bulkheads and floor board. On the first attempt I kept adjusting the set of the front and rear bulkheads as they dried, but the glue still pulled them in. I'm not talking a large visible fillet of glue, rather what is left behind after wiping off the excess hardly visible, but since it is on coated paper, it doesn't soak in and so it exerts a pull. In the case of the front and rear bulkheads, I found a sparing application of CA was able to affix the bulkhead to the floor board at 90 deg and keep it there.
(http://i.imgur.com/H51VSfw.jpg) (https://imgur.com/H51VSfw)
This may sound like a lot of fuss and bother to glue a couple bits of paper together, but it is just learning curve on the different properties of the media, both glues and papers. We have all learned not to use styrene glue on resin and we all keep CA well away from clear parts which haven't been coated in Future.
sp
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It took some fiddling, but I got the second cockpit attempt assembled true and square. I tried to rob the wheel from the original assembly but ended up destroying it, so I had to make another. I was successful in popping the seats loose and using them in the current cockpit. I missed the kitty hair picked up when I dropped the assembly on the rug. Experience with the first assembly tells me the white edges showing will not be seen through the cockpit openings.
(http://i.imgur.com/1egEYem.jpg) (https://imgur.com/1egEYem)
That saved me an hour for which I had other uses, (like vacuuming the cat hair off the rug). The assembly needs to cure fully before any attempt is made to apply the inner and outer skins.
(http://i.imgur.com/5qNQQkK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/5qNQQkK)
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Even better than the first which I thought was Terrific SP!
RAGIII
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Thank you Rick. I'm starting to think 1:72 scale may h ave been a bit ambitious for a second card model. I'll look at it like a baseball player swinging a weighted bat so when he steps up to the plate his regular bat swings harder. Maybe this won't be so fiddly in 1/33 scale :-)
sp
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Now that the basic structure is all square, it is time to skin it with inner and outer skins.
(http://i.imgur.com/5qNQQkK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/5qNQQkK)
The cockpit floor is simply too flimsy and is part of why the first one twisted. I added 1/32 balsa stiffeners and cured the problem.
(http://i.imgur.com/QfYzg0R.jpg) (https://imgur.com/QfYzg0R)
In this image the inner skin is partially attached in order to show the very fine slit that I ignored on the first assembly and was the other factor contributing to the twist.
(http://i.imgur.com/C6TkGha.jpg) (https://imgur.com/C6TkGha)
Here the outer skin is fully attached and the assembly is square.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZVqMX9u.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ZVqMX9u)
The properly scored tabs on the outer skin folded under perfectly and made attaching the bottom piece a breeze. All is square.
(http://i.imgur.com/7YAeT5S.jpg) (https://imgur.com/7YAeT5S)
I'm very pleased to have produced an assembly which is square, since the rest of the model just sort of grows from this assembly. I am also glad I finally discovered why the first assembly became twisted. I may even remember for the next model :-)
sp
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Your learning curve goes much more quickly than Mine SP! The cockpit assembly looks great. Congratulations on your success!
RAGIII
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Agree with Rick! Your stiffeners are a good plan too.
Way to go...Dan ;)
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Thanks Rick and Dan. I had another minor medical procedure today and I'm not touching any models until the drugs wear completely off. I need no outside help messing things up.
sp
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Back at it and rather pleased. All the effort it took to make the cockpit assembly square has paid off well. The rear sections of the fuselage went right on and the resulting structure is still square.
(http://i.imgur.com/cDqMSs6.jpg) (https://imgur.com/cDqMSs6)
Everything aligned so well that at the very end of the fuselage, a tiny tail on the bottom piece which folds up and covers what would be the rudder post fit near perfectly. That was at the far end of two fuselage sections back from the cockpit assembly.
(http://i.imgur.com/zbIwrbQ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/zbIwrbQ)
A better view of the fuselage to date. I suppose I should have opened up the cabane strut holes while the piece was still flat. Lessons learned. Ready to move on to the nose.
(http://i.imgur.com/8tD3HzR.jpg) (https://imgur.com/8tD3HzR)
We have all felt the urge to start another plastic kit before we are finished with the one we are working on. Just so you know, it's worse with paper card models. Still resisting. Can't wait to try something 1:33
sp
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Hi SP, I clearly don't visit this section enough! I continue to be amazed by these models and this looks like you are having great fun.
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Well done sp! ;D Your patience and perseverance is paying huge dividends, as the fuselage looks wonderful. I need to remember to slow down, measure well, test fit and sometimes bite the bullet and redo something that's not-quite-right. You seem to have mastered that aspect of paper modeling. I'm looking forward to more on the Short. ;D
Best tregards,
Bob
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Looking great so far! If you need any references here's my build of the Aeroclub kit. Same airframe.
Ian
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Thanks Richie. If you weren't doing so great on your scratchbuild, I'd recommend trying one. Maybe you can in between scratching and kits.
Bob thanks, but the only thing persistent about me is my tendency to bull ahead without benefit of either instructions or dry fits. I need the dog's old choke collar to wear so I can yank on it when I catch my self going too fast. But like the dog, I'm learning slowly.
Ian
Aeroclub Short 184, I'm totally jealous. I've given up hope of ever finding one which is why I jumped on the paper card Short. Please post a link, I can't wait to check it out.
sp
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Looking really good so far SP , your having fun so keep at it :)
Terri
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I'm havin' fun, fun, fun since PJ took our Wingnuts away....
Sorry, couldn't resist.
sp
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Here you go. Looks like I forgot it in the first post!
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=5132.msg90676#msg90676
One of my earlier builds but I'm still ok with it!
Ian
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Thanks Ian. That lookes like a very nice limited run kit. The pictures of the plans and finished model have already answered a couple of questions. Now I am definitely going to grab one if I ever run across it.
sp
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I am in need of some help here.
The tailfeathers have me totally confused. I have carefully re-read the written instructions and looked hard at all the drawings and cannot find a hint as to how to assemble the two sides of the fin & rudder and the stab & elevator. Below is a photo of the parts as printed.
(http://i.imgur.com/0PxMTHK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/0PxMTHK)
The two sides to each piece are different sizes which I take to be for making an airfoil cross section. There is nothing in either the written instructions or drawings indicating how they go together and there are no "ribs" to go between.
I am thinking to roll the larger Horizontal tailplane piece into an airfoil shape, Glue the LE and when dry, match up the TE and ends.
The fin and rudder are another story altogether. Are they printed out of register? Pretty sure not as the rest of the sheet is good. What is that line from the bottom of one fin to the top of the opposite side rudder? and what about the CDL edges to the larger rudder? Leading edges??
Am I missing a subtle hint from the way they are printed? If not I am inclined to glue the parts together and trim to the outline of the smaller part and color the edges.
sp
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(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/14f4/ai5nr634h5kk0ndzg.jpg)
The first step is to separate the parts.
The second step is to fold along the line.
Lastly, cut the side where the designs are smaller.
;) matt77
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Thanks Matt. I am slowly learning to read the cut, score and fold information included on the parts layouts. I did as you showed and the parts came out fine. That one piece larger than the other is a neat trick for getting a match up when you have to fold to make a two sided part. All part of the learning curve.
sp
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Tail feathers done and control horns added.
(http://i.imgur.com/FhVnrMC.jpg) (https://imgur.com/FhVnrMC)
Tail feathers attached.
(http://i.imgur.com/BlCSmJ7.jpg) (https://imgur.com/BlCSmJ7)
(http://i.imgur.com/vZ10gnB.jpg) (https://imgur.com/vZ10gnB)
Progress to date.
(http://i.imgur.com/Ao1lv08.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Ao1lv08)
The close up photography really makes the edges look bad, but in person they don't look so bad, still I have to work on how I treat the edges.
sp
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The tail Feathers look excellent! What rigging line did you end up using?
RAGIII
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Left side is HSP and the right is Mono. I am going with HSP as I don't have enough mono and don't want to wait on delivery. The Short Brothers definitely had job security for riggers in mind when they designed this plane.
sp
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SP!
I've been driving cross country so just got some good internet. Looks great and I did just what Matt77 suggested when I put mine together. Seemed to work out fine.
Yours is looking awesome!
Dan
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... still I have to work on how I treat the edges.
Soft chalk pastels!
Gene K
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I forgot that I have a small box of them stuck away, I will give that a try. Thanks for the tip Gene.'
sp
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A little more progress on a lazy day. The black rod is there to secure the wings when they fold back. It is lacking rigging, but not for long. I'm not folding the wings, maybe if I ever land an Aeroclub kit.
(http://i.imgur.com/DvdtxXF.jpg) (https://imgur.com/DvdtxXF)
sp
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And I thought the SPAD rigging was challenging ;D Looks excellent SP!
RAGIII
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The tail feathers are finally rigged. I added the lines supporting the bar that secures the folded wings. Additionally I cleaned up the paper struts supporting the tail float and added the rigging between them shown in the datafile.
(http://i.imgur.com/hGmWVDm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/hGmWVDm)
The struts supporting the float are just paper. I cut them out and glued them in place at the correct angles with CA and when that cured, I coated each strut with medium CA applied with a fine wire stuck in a bamboo handle. They cured up more than strong enough to support the float. I may have to hold off on carving struts if this method works on longer struts.
(http://i.imgur.com/Z3ZuPWM.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Z3ZuPWM)
sp
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That tail assemblage and float look wonderful sp! You are really picking up paper modeling quickly. I’m learning a good deal from your experiences, and really appreciate your detailed descriptions. I have now completed my second paper kit, and you are well on your way with your second! Very nicely done.
Best regards,
Bob
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The tail surfaces and float look Fantastic SP! Excellent work all around.
RAGIII
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Joining late, a very interesting build. I like your care in detailing.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Bob, Rick and Giuseppi, thanks for the compliments, your support is egging me on.
I overstepped the bounds of good sense and messed up a lower wing panel by making a cut score along the leading edge, so I will have to reprint that page of parts. The up side being I now have 3 more wing panels on which to practice LE scores. I know I need to use my dull butter knife to make the score without breaking the paper surface. What I don't know is do I make that dull knife score on the printed side or on the unprinted side? I have enough extra wing panels to do it both ways in order to find out for myself and that is exactly what I will do, I am simply curious how experienced paper card modelers deal with their leading edges. In the mean time I have cabane struts and a top wing center section to build.
sp
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I found a trick that works well. I had sprayed Krylon clear on some ink jet printed parts sheets that were printed on 176 gr cardstock. When I checked them this morning I found the Krylon had caused the sheets to curl. I then tried spraying the back sides of the sheets. When that dried they were still curled. Desperate not to waste the ink on the sheets, I grabbed the trusty Monokote iron off the pegboard and heated it up. I sandwiched the curled sheets between some regular typing paper and ironed them flat on the steel top of my magnetic building bench. Worked very well. I don't know how well it would work if only one side had been sprayed, but with both sides treated with Krylon clear, the cardstock ironed flat and quite usable. I have an extra printed piece of cardstock on which I will try spraying only one side and see if that flattens out as well as the pieces sprayed on both sides.
sp
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I'm on the road and just got some internet. This is looking great, SP!!!!!!
Dan from somewhere on the open road...
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I added the cabane struts. These are double thickness and colored on both sides. They were inserted into existing holes and when exactly the right height, (struts were marked), they got a drop of CA. Just enough time to ensure they were straight in all aspects. When that set I dabbed CA all over the strut and it hardened right up exactly in place.
Bending the top wing center section was tricky so I built the radiator which mounts into the LE of the center section. That added a lot of support. Much fiddlyism to get he center section on straight. Even more to rig the cabanes.
(http://i.imgur.com/xgzqiS9.jpg) (https://imgur.com/xgzqiS9)
The instructions tell me the the lower wings and mainplane struts are the next victims.
sp
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The wings with their scalloped trailing edges were a nuisance to cut out, but I got both wings more or less together, The strut ends were dipped in white glue and inserted into holes cut where marked on the wing. With just enough glue to hold them, they should be movable enough to fiddly them into their holes in the bottom of the top wing. Once they are in place I can go to coating them in CA. That paper coated in CA trick seems to work quite well.
The precarious perch is deliberate to illustrate the point that these card models are so light that dropping them rarely causes any harm.
(http://i.imgur.com/bIMiGHF.jpg) (https://imgur.com/bIMiGHF)
sp
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Whoo-Hoo! Looking great, SP. Keep going...Dan
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Thanks for the kind words. It's going real slowly here Dan. I am using photo paper and even the back side is coated a bit, so the white glue, Aleene's Original Tacky Glue, is taking for ever to dry when I glue the trailing edges of the wing panels together. I have to wrap them in clear plastic cut from a sandwich bag and then clamp a steel ruler over the trailing edge and give it 24 hours. The plastic slows up the drying, but without it I would be gluing it to both the board and ruler.
(http://i.imgur.com/2RWB6Rz.jpg) (https://imgur.com/2RWB6Rz)
sp
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You are moving right a long with this build SP and she is looking really nice :) Well done so far !
Terri
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Interesting fix to your gluing issues. Take your time. It's going too well to mess up now! ;D ;D
Dan
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Finally it's a biplane.
Using flexible white glue to fix the struts to the lower wing was the key to being able to get the top wing on. It allowed the wiggle needed to get each strut into it's associated hole in the top wing. I used CA to fix the struts in their top wing holes and when that set, I coated each strut with CA. That was a mistake because I should have used watercolor paint to color the edges of the struts first. Now I will need to use acrylics or enamels. Another bite in the backside courtesy of my impatience. You'd think I would learn and think in between steps.
(http://i.imgur.com/mIW9rph.jpg) (https://imgur.com/mIW9rph)
(http://i.imgur.com/tUZCQgi.jpg) (https://imgur.com/tUZCQgi)
sp
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Fantastic, sp! That looks so cool. ;D I always struggle with struts and wings, and you have done a great job with a long multi-bay wing. The Short is looking very much like it should. Very nicely done--and it's paper!
Best regards,
Bob
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Amazing work SP. You make this look easy and of course it is NOT!
RAGIII
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Thanks guys.
I had to find a different way to handle the struts because my usual method of holding the top and bottom wings between thumb and forefinger simply doesn't work with paper struts. (it didn't work well with plastic either, seeing as how I crunched the wings on the Eduard Albie I was working on) I had to glue the struts to the bottom wing and when dry, use tweezers to fineagle the struts into the holes in the top wing.
The measuring that these paper card designers do is the key to why these things are assemblable in the first place. I am amazed that things go together at all much less how well everything fits. Even with that, I would have binned this model already if I hadn't wanted a model of a Short 184 so badly and hadn't been getting constant encouragement from y'all.
Now I have to resist the urge to bull ahead and make the floats, but rigging the wings on this beastie is going to take a lot of handling, so I better get it done now before I add stuff to knock off of it.
sp
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Ooops, I missed your paper model so far, but now I grabbed my wife's TabletPC and read your report comfortably on the balcony in one go.
Such a paper artwork wouldn't be for me, I'd rather solder a stripdown model from etched parts, but you have earned my deepest respect!
Good luck and fun with the further build!
Cheers,
Frank
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Thanks Frank.
Coming from you that is high praise indeed. Your work has certainly earned my highest respect. I look forward to each of your updates because I know I will learn something useful.
Regards
sp
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Whoo-Hoo! Top wing is on with all of those struts. Makes you feel accomplished, doesn't it???!!! ;D
I think it's moving along plenty fast and it going very well...keep up the fight!
Dan
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Thanks Dan. The struts did go better than I expected. I only had to yank one loose and reposition it, an 8.3% failure rate or a 91.7% success rate depending on whether you are a glass half empty or glass half full kinda guy. I'll take 91.7% success rate and not quibble. Hopefully that will translate into a similar success rate for the rigging, (36 separate runs...yipes!) That isn't counting 4 control horns for each aileron and all that funky business in the outer bay so the wings can fold back without tangling the flying wires in the horizontal tailplane. I may run out of sprue to stretch. I hope the flying officers took real good care of the enlisted riggers who must have worked their tails off to keep these birds flying.
sp
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Nice work on getting the top wing fitted , she looks really good SP . Rigging is going to take some time one this one . Was there the double flying wires ? And what have you chosen for the rigging ?
Terri
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The lift and landing wires are doubled according to the DF. They are about half as far apart as normal. Some planes have them covered, some not. The photo of 842 is too fuzzy to tell for sure, but I'd say not covered. I have some ideas I will have to try out now that the chain mail gauntlet has landed squarely in my teeth :-) I was going to use heat stretched sprue, but may use something else to get the double wires.
Your timing is golden. Thank you for asking before I started rigging :-)
sp
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This is a very impressive build, glad I came across it. Recently joined, hoping to improve plastic model building skills, so hadn't expected paper built aircraft - this is a great job!
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Thank you Sir. I am just learning about paper card modeling. There are several true masters on this Forum. You have to look very hard to tell their work isn't plastic.
sp
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This project stalled at the point of rigging the wings. I had to get it moving again or bin it. I tried a new way, for me, of using an old material. The old material is heat stretched sprue. The new way is using Tacky Glue instead of CA and to use a pair of dividers to get the length of the run. With a couple of trials I can get the length just right. The squared up wing bays of the Short allow for multiple runs of exactly the same length. Measure once cut 12 times, at least that is the idea, and it seems to be working. I did the fore and aft crossed wires between pairs of mainplane struts. I was able to pick up a length of cut sprue and dip both ends in a drop of Tacky Glue and then tweezer the piece in place. The Tacky glue tended to hold better than CA while drying and made installing each piece less fidddly than when I use CA. The down side is that it takes a while for the Tacky Glue to harden enough so that heat can be applied to get rid of any sagging wires. At least you can tell it is dry when the white Tacky Glue turns clear. Makes a slow job longer, but it seems to work well otherwise.
(http://i.imgur.com/6meKz2y.jpg) (https://imgur.com/6meKz2y)
I used to heat a wire in a bamboo skewer handle and then wave it under the sagging wire. Now I use a digital soldering iron where I can adjust the temperature. I can set it so it slowly shrinks the wire and I end up burning through way less wires that way. The soldering setup was only 65 bucks which was a bargain to me since I use it a lot on RC stuff as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/Cvq2nxK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Cvq2nxK)
sp
(http://i.imgur.com/Cvq2nxK.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Cvq2nxK)
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OK, I give.
Parallel double wires in 1:72 scale are beyond my skills. I can do ya unparallel double wires all day long, but they look terrible. What I can do however, is to make thicker stretched sprue and call it wrapped double wires. That's gonna be my story and I'm gonna stick to it. Time to move on with this bird or stick it on the recently thinned out shelf of doom.
Need to spend the rest of the daylight getting the yard picked up and water bottles and gas cans filled in advance of the hurricane headed our way.
sp
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The two inner bays are rigged. Careful study of the Datafile drawings show a bizarre arrangement of control horns and cables between upper and lower wing ailerons. It is beyond my ability to sensibly describe, so I will take photos when I work on them tomorrow.
(http://i.imgur.com/KuiaLEB.jpg) (https://imgur.com/KuiaLEB)
(http://i.imgur.com/AqpYiBp.jpg) (https://imgur.com/AqpYiBp)
(http://i.imgur.com/ixF3hGY.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ixF3hGY)
sp
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The outboard bay on Shorts is wierd. Due to the need for folding wings one pair of flying wires is lifted out of the way where the horizontal stabilizer pokes through the outer bay when the wings fold back along the fuselage. How the double hockey sticks am I gonna do that with heat stretched sprue? Answer: Not happening. Albion Alloys to the rescue. Their 0.5 mm brass rod is pretty much the same size as the flying wires on the inner two bays. The two pieces holding the pair of wires out of the way are 0.3 mm rod. Worked like a champ. I will need to take a lot of care when it comes to painting them. If you think the little "suspenders" wires holding the flying wires out of the way is bizarre, stay tuned for the aileron control wires, they take odd to a new level.
(http://i.imgur.com/56OBUgO.jpg) (https://imgur.com/56OBUgO)
sp
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That's quite the beast, SP. Keep her going!
Dan ;)
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Looking good sp!
Best regards,
Bob
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Thanks guys. I sure appreciate the encouragement.
I'm doing one little thing after another and hopefully I'll soon be running out of things and calling it done.
sp
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Finished.
Added the floats and finished all the rigging. It is a real collection of warts and newbie mistakes, but it represents some time on the learning curve.
I believe my scale in paper card is going to be 1:33. 1:72 is going to be for Spruce Gooses and C-5A Galaxies, otherwise it is too small for me to manipulate.
I have learned about most of the things that initially piqued my curiosity about paper card models. I received a great deal of help from Dan and Bob our forum Paper Card Masters which I greatly appreciate. I am awaiting the arrival any day now if a paper card DH.2 and in a couple, three weeks a 1:33 paper card I'lya Muromets. Both of which rank high on my favorite airplanes list.
If anybody out there is sitting on one of those Tom's, I think it was, 1:48 Short 184 kits. Talk to me. I have some interesting kits to trade. Surely, if you haven't built it yet, what's the chance you will? Good intentions aside, it's likely to sit, why not trade it for something you'd like better and be more likely to build. You really don't want to rig that beastie...now do you?
(http://i.imgur.com/9alp647.jpg) (https://imgur.com/9alp647)
(http://i.imgur.com/An6rWxJ.jpg) (https://imgur.com/An6rWxJ)
(http://i.imgur.com/9qmJClW.jpg) (https://imgur.com/9qmJClW)
(http://i.imgur.com/3siByS0.jpg) (https://imgur.com/3siByS0)
(http://i.imgur.com/7Da1at3.jpg) (https://imgur.com/7Da1at3)
sp
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SP! SP! SP!
That turned out just great. I'm so glad you stayed with it. It looks really nice. It's hard to believe that it's your second model. Can't wait to see that DH-2.
Dan
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I'm hanging out near the mailbox in case the DH.2 comes and the Postperson decides to fold it up to fit in the mailbox. This was bought from an individual and I don't know if he put DO NOT FOLD on it or not. The I'lya is coming from a paper card model company and I assume it will be appropriately marked, (Hope the mailperson reads Russian).
Glad you like it and thank you for the kind words and support. It looks good in the case as it balances the Paul Schmitt PS.7, another 3 bay high aspect ratio wing biplane.
(http://i.imgur.com/orOGGEs.jpg) (https://imgur.com/orOGGEs)
I'm glad I worked out how to deal with paper struts so now that won't be an obstacle on future builds.
These card models are highly addictive, but I do not foresee giving up other types of models, just adding paper card to the list of media available. I have 3 started and stalled plastic kits hanging around my bench and I need to finish at least one of them before I indulge myself with more paper.
sp
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Looks fantastic sp! Way to persevere through your learning curve. I agree with Dan--hard to believe it's only your second paper kit, and what a challenging subject in 1/72! I'm sticking to 1/33. ;D
Very well done!
Best regards,
Bob
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Looks great in the case!!!
I too have some other models I need to finish before making more paper. They are just so darn much fun, though. ;D
It'll be fun to see whatever your next model is and in any medium...Dan
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For your second one SP it turned out really well indeed . I would be proud that's for sure :)
Terri
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Thank you Terri, I wanted a Short 184 badly, so it was fun in spite of the learning curve.
Dan, I went out to the shop with every intention of finishing some started plastic. I was dripping sweat within 5 min. I went back in the air conditioned house and in spite of every good intention, started cutting cockpit pieces for the Berg. Work in the shop will have to wait until the weather breaks.
sp
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Simply Stunning results SP. Especially considering you tackled this complex build as your second Paper kit! You have My respect for a superb build and your quick learning curve!
RAGIII
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Thanks for the compliment Rick. It has been a learning curve indeed.
sp