forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => WW1 Aircraft Information/Questions => Topic started by: smperry on June 19, 2020, 02:23:47 AM
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I have always fancied doing a 1000th Ruston Proctor Camel, B-7380. I find myself with a Hobby Craft 1/32 Camel, Kit # HC 1681. It comes with markings for the early version of Barker's Camel and the Camel in the Imperial War museum. (F-6314 B-6313)
While I am by no means ready to start, I have been prowling the web and saving images, but my research is rusty. So before I go put any serious time and effort into this, is there anything about this kit that would be an obvious error that should have been corrected if I were to paint it like B-7380? I guess the most obvious thing being the engine. I don't recall enough to say which one the kit has and which one B-7380 had. I also do not know if B-7380 had been fitted with guns yet when it was gussied up for the ceremony marking the 1000th RP Camel, which is how I want to portray it as to my understanding, they didn't wait long before they slapped a coat of PC-10 on it and sent it off to war.
Any info and pointers would be most appreciated.
sp
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From memory, the kit has a Clerget engine
Until recently, I'd suggest replacing the engine with a WNW one...
Richard
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I believe you are correct Richard. There are 2 pushrods per cyl in front of each cyl. I vaguely recall that being consistent with a Clerget. Now I have to poke around some more and see if I can come up with what engine Ruston Proctor were equipping their Camels.
I found images of a Pheom decal sheet for this bird, but it does not show up when I go to their site and look at the list of In Stock sheets. I am more inclined to mask and spray than use decals, especially in 1/32 scale. I have the WnW camel kit as part of the dual kit with the LVG C.VI, so I can use interior parts from that as patterns for a decent interior. I don't intend to make more of a detailing project out of this than necessary as I hope the colors and markings will keep attention on the outside of the model.
I have had this kit in the stash for decades and at some point I sanded off all the wing surface details. Can someone with a Hobby Craft Camel look and tell me how bad the surface of the wings are? I am simply curious if they needed to be sanded or if I just did it anyway.
sp
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I used the info in The Camel File when I made my Blue Max 1/48 one twenty odd years ago. Haven't got it to hand right now.
Don't make the mistake I did though of drawing the black lines with a sharpie that turned out not to be too permanent when varnish was applied!
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Thanks for the Sharpie tip, I was leaning in that direction, so your timing is perfect. Thin strips of decal material will likely work. Some how I never got a Camel DF. Guess I better go shopping before I start this one.
Thanks again for saving me a lot of trouble
sp
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Sharpie would be very bad news indeed. For a starter, I think you'll find that a black Sharpie is a "chromatic" black - so if you cover it, it's going to look dark blue - maybe even a little purple. If paint's not what you want, there is acrylic ink - at least the color would be true.
Eric
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"I have had this kit in the stash for decades and at some point I sanded off all the wing surface details. Can someone with a Hobby Craft Camel look and tell me how bad the surface of the wings are? I am simply curious if they needed to be sanded or if I just did it anyway."
sp,
I checked the two kits I have in the Stash here, the LeRhone and Clerget ones of the series HC 1693 and 4. The wing tapes are more "raised" then the Wingnut Wings versions, I probably will remove and replace them with less raised strips if I build them as well, they are too "pronounced" IMHO. (I am saving them to do a Comic conversion at some time in the future)
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Lance
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Macsporran
what a lovely model. I am inspired to continue herding my ducks in a row and eventually trying my hand at a 1000th RP Camel. I looked in my Camel books and found nothing. Do you recall the exact title.
Richard
I recently bought a MicroMark casting set. No telling what engine this one will end up with. :-)
Lance,
Thanks for looking, I guess I did have a reason for sanding the wings down. Some primer, some future and then decal strips should have it looking about right.
I think the only things un resolved are whether or not the guns were mounted at the time of the factory celebration and the specific engine used. I believe this one will be fully ready to start.
Thanks for all the help guys.
sp
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Hi sp, on reflection I recall I had a soft cover booklet (about 16 pages) on the subject of Ruston Proctor and their Sopwith production history. Inside this was a full history and colour layouts of the Egyptian themed Camel.
I'm afraid I sold off my whole library twenty years ago and can't recall the exact title but if it comes to me I'll revert to you.
I seem to remember though that part of it was reproduced in some of the Datafiles (but I sold all of those too unfortunately so can't check there either!)
I'm sure somebody else here will know the booklet I mean
Cheers
Sandy
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Hi So!
Did you ever find an answer to the engine question for the 1000th Camel? I've been thinking about this scheme myself.
Cheers Fredrik
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I got sidetracked. I am thinking the Profile Publication or the Datafile might have a list of tail numbers which had certain engines, but I have not dug out the references as yet.
sp
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Autocorrect changed sp to so... Sorry about that!
Thanks for the answer anyway, I'll look as well and will tell you what I find.
/Fredrik
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The question of "which Camel air frames or production batches had what engine installed" is one that I have yet to find a good list or reference on, and I've searched for one often. I have a pretty good library of References and even the classic Chaz Bowyer "Sopwith Camel-King of Combat" provides no answer. If anyone has a table, list, or volume that provides this info I'd be very pleased to have it! :-\
Cheers,
Lance
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I kind of figured that Lance. There were a lot of contractors. I do recall, now that it comes up again, I think I saw one photo of the aircraft in question that looked to have double pushrods peeking out from the cowl, though it wasn't the best of photos IIRC. So now that I am reminded, I will likely go with the Clerget. I can always attach the cowl and prop with white glue in case proof to the contrary shows up.
sp
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My guess is Clerget9B, find two pictures on this page:
https://www.kingstonaviation.org/sopwith-day-by-day/1918.html
The livery is highly attractive and I'm looking to make this one also in the future, so I'm very interested in following a similar build.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Lance and sp, the best reference for airframe, engines etc by far is The Camel File from Air Britain publications. This lists every Camel by serial number and identifies engine where possible, service history, dates etc.
B7280 was one of a batch of 200 Camels ordered from Ruston Proctor under running contract 87/A/1809/17 and AS19734 which were mostly fitted with 130hp Clerget 9B engines.
It was delivered to Reception Park in France 15/2/18 but considered not suitable for fighting purposes because of the colour scheme and returned to England 6/3/18 (6March). No record after that.
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Wow Giuseppe, That is a clearer photo than the one I saw. Pretty much solves the engine issue. Fortunately the kit I plan to use has one.
Thanks so much for the information. It is duly saved in the folder and will be a help when I finally get this one going
sp
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FWIW, here is the only other picture I have of the 1/48 RP1000 I made years ago. I was quite diligent with positioning of details such as the roundels on the struts etc, from the RP booklet, so in the absence of empirical data it may be of some use.
HTH
Sandy
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Wow Giuseppe, That is a clearer photo than the one I saw. Pretty much solves the engine issue. Fortunately the kit I plan to use has one.
Thanks so much for the information. It is duly saved in the folder and will be a help when I finally get this one going
sp
Not only did this help with your question SP but there is a great rear view shot of Woolett's D6402 with the white camo blotches applied. If I can't get another WNW Camel I may have to tackle the Hobby Craft kit Myself someday 8) Thanks for posting the Link Giuseppe!
RAGIII
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Does anyone know if the dazzle wings went together with the optic illusion Sopwith Camel fuselage shown in the August 5th, 1918 page of https://www.kingstonaviation.org/sopwith-day-by-day/1918.html
Was any information on colors ever recorded? Thanks.
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Welcome, I thougt "1918 Kingston Aviation" was already known to forum members: it's a nice source for Sopwith images.
About the dazzle wings, probably there are pictures of optical illusion schemes in the Windsock special "British colours and markings" and I believe it was a black and white scheme but just my guess.
With so many attractive liveries, I wish to get a lot of Camels now ;D
Ciao
Giuseppe