forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
The Coronavirus locked down theme build => The Coronavirus special theme build => Topic started by: Monty on April 19, 2020, 06:51:35 AM
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Well, here is my build for the Corona virus thing... started a bit a while ago, but still not very far. I would like to do the colour scheme of Sous-Lieutenant Herisson - on the box top - but I can find no info or pictures, can some one point me in the right direction? Even a poor quality photograph would help....
(https://iili.io/JxaF8G.md.jpg)
Small steps today, some primer on the prop and after scraping down the rim on the outside wheel covers putty to hide the strange dimple details... wheel covers were quite plain on these Nieuports...
(https://iili.io/JIIYRp.md.jpg)
Hopefully more soon,
Regards, Marc.
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I am looking forward to your renewed progress on this one. I actually have one Stalled on My SOD!
RAGIII
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Hi Marc,
there is just one photo of Hérisson's Nieuport, perhaps you've seen it...
https://www.asoublies1418.fr/index.php/escadrilles/51-75-b/escadrille-n-75-spa-75/175-escadrilles/escadrille-n-75/1181-escadrille-n-75-avions
http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/escadrille075.htm
8)
buzby
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There might be something here:
http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/escadrille075.htm (http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/escadrille075.htm)
Richard
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There might be something here:
http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/escadrille075.htm (http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/escadrille075.htm)
For instance:
(http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/Profils/075_Ni24_3987_Herisson.jpg)
Nieuport 24 n° 3987 de l'Adj William Hérisson - Dessin David Méchin que je remercie pour son aide.
Richard
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nice start
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Thank you so much everyone for checking in! The help is invaluable! Buzby and Richard, your Google is better than mine and provided great info and details! The photo of Sous-Lietenant Herisson and his aircraft is exactly what I was looking for! It seems that Roden's interpretation of colours is quite plausible - and that's what I wanted to know! Now to beg a little more - does anyone have a pattern of the 5 colour camo on the 24? The Roden one does look OK, but is a little furry... And I did get a little done - baby steps...
Here I cleaned up one interplane strut... took an hour! Compared to the Roden provide one...
(https://iili.io/JIeg4e.md.jpg)
And just for interest sake, thought I would mate it up to the underside of the top wing...
(https://iili.io/JIe43u.md.jpg)
There would indeed be a nasty surprise coming later in the build.... interestingly, I have a suspicion the holes in the wing may be right and the V in the strut being too wide... way back in the corner of my mind I read about the top wing of the 24 being almost totally new, the front spar was moved back and the leading edge covered in plywood.. visible in the kit... but the rear spar would have to be in the same place, aileron controls, hinges etc... so the V struts would not be the same as the 17... Any ideas here? I also cleaned up and used some surface filler on the fabric wheel covers and prop - they look a bit messy here (putty and primer) but are really quite smooth!
(https://iili.io/JIe6Yb.md.jpg)
And lastly, I found a few surprises in the box - some instrument decals, none supplied in the kit, but I only need one apparently! Some brass wire for mounting that lower wing to the fuselage (still thinking about and researching that) and some seatbelts, I have no idea which ones to use, but please tell me the funky red and black ones are OK!
Regards,
Marc
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Just a quick mid-week update - no real progress but I did answer most of my own queries by finding this datafile on my shelves, worth it's weight in gold! I knew I had something on the late Nieuports... it has a five colour camo pattern drawing too! It seems to me the fuselage and all the black patches are hard edged, but the wing patterns seem to be sprayed with soft edges... Any thoughts?
(https://iili.io/JTS7B2.md.jpg)
I also left a photograph off the last post... I will make amends...
(https://iili.io/JIeiyx.md.jpg)
Let me know about the seat belts please! The wire will help mount the lower wings... Some cockpit sub-assemblies too.. Then I found the one wing strut V was too wide, the other was right - so I bent and butchered the wrong one til they were the same...
(https://iili.io/JTS07e.md.jpg)
And then I found a "fitting" moulded at the site of one of the holes for mounting the lower wing (see at the tip of the blade), now this fitting is not visible and completely disturbs the fit of the wing root to the fuselage - it should be a flush fit. And the sweep back and dihedral of the wing suffers making things very difficult - shave it off as seen on the other fuselage half! Everything seems to fit much better... the holes need some clean out too..
(https://iili.io/JTSl29.md.jpg)
This will be a critical join so needs some care...
Regards,
Marc
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Looking good to date! You have been more successful than I was in getting those interior bits together. Nice catch on the strut! Something for Me to look at if I ever go back to mine!
RAGIII
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Thanks for checking in Rick! Yes, that metal frame looks like a fragile and complicated structure but it actually goes together quite well and even fits quite perfectly! I'm so tempted to paint it blue... Today I spent time chucking paint around as it makes me happy... these are basically undercoats, lots of detail painting and washes and dry brushing to come... I do put some strips of masking tape on the mating surfaces where necessary, it does save assembly grief later! I'd better let this all dry properly...
(https://iili.io/JAA8Ft.jpg)
Enjoy your modelling!
Regards,
Marc
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Just a quick mid-week update - no real progress but I did answer most of my own queries by finding this datafile on my shelves, worth it's weight in gold! I knew I had something on the late Nieuports... it has a five colour camo pattern drawing too! It seems to me the fuselage and all the black patches are hard edged, but the wing patterns seem to be sprayed with soft edges... Any thoughts?
Well.....
I think the painting would have been done in two places, and either place would always have done the same thing
The factory painted the camouflage, rudder and cockades. Units painted any additional markings specific to Escadrilles and pilots
So - the fuselage and wing painting would be done at the factory, and most likely done in the same way. If the fuselage was done by hand, so would the wings and both would have hard edges. Likewise if they wee sprayed, they might have soft edges
I'd be surprised if unit level painting was done with anything other than a paintbrush*
Richard
*I am continuously surprised by new discoveries
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Looking good so far, Marc! Glad you went for the Nieuport, such a pretty machine :)
Jeroen
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Time for an update! Thanks for that insight, Richard! I did a bit more searching and came across "Project Butterfly" of course, and there are some great insights there. But on carefully studying the available photographs I feel the camo is all hard edged and factory applied. I will use the WNW suggested Tamiya colour mixes, and just see how it turns out! Undersurfaces in the silver dope, I agree with Roden there and it is a definite possibility... Jeroen, the reason I started up again on the Nieuport is due to your input - I don't regret it.. Thank You!
Well, on with the interior painting! An oil wash, touching up with clear orange (Tamiya acrylic) to emphasize the wood and some detail painting, but more to come! The interplane struts are sprayed silver so I can mask the taped bands and then do the wood - just my idea, we'll see if it works! The prop, engine and cowling are just started and put together to check the colour and contrast - more painting to go! The fabric wheel covers are sprayed silver just to check my corrections - looks like it will do!
(https://iili.io/J5WSwl.jpg)
The interior may just be a bit messy - but I confess I never met a really clean cockpit! This kit has it's problems - test fit everything and be prepared to butcher things to fit... location of parts takes a lot of care, I fiddled a long time and glued twice to get the forward cabane struts to line up.. note they angle backwards lightly, this is correct..
Regards and enjoy your modelling!
Marc
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Oh, this is a very nice Cockpit, Marc. Lovely wooden tones all around!
Andreas
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Oh, this is a very nice Cockpit, Marc. Lovely wooden tones all around!
Andreas
The wood is beautiful
Richard
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Thank you for checking in and your comment, Andreas, it gives me hope! Thank you too, Richard, all encouragement helps! I haven't got much further yet, got a decal on for the lonely dial in the cockpit, and did some detail painting. I did a lot of scraping and filing on the metal forward upper fuselage panel (on the right of the photo) I was surprised at the fit problems, but glad I sorted them out now. And yes, I'm guilty of distraction.. some of the detail painting continued on the von R Albie, well, the paints were open! Amazing how precise the fit..here the fuselage frames are all dry fitted...
(https://iili.io/J5yXkX.jpg)
All the Best,
Marc.
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I'm not familiar with this kit, and I'm really liking the look of it
As to getting distracted, I have a SPAD VII, a SPAD XIII and a Spitfire MK.IIc active at the moment....
Richard
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Actually a very good kit, Richard. There are plenty of fit issues though that need care. And as for distraction.. Yes! We are in the golden age of modelling, so many subjects so little time! ATB, Marc
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Just a little colouful detail; The Eduard PE seatbelts added, I usually bend them up a bit more to get some natural folds in them, but I so didn't want the painted red and black stripes to flake off! They were really easy to use.. It may just need a dirty wash to match the rest of the 'pit!
(https://iili.io/JY3XRV.jpg)
Regards,
Marc
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There is a lot of work on the Ni24 cockpit and also lot of fixing fo structural parts. You are doing a great job on a kit looking really challenging. And nice interior work on the Albatros also.
Waiting for updates.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Hi Monty!
Great build until now, Ni.24 was an elegant little sesquiplane and you are doing a beautiful work.
Only two things: "guide" for feet under rudder bar were metallic, it seems you are made them in wood.
Metal stripes around struts were embedded in wood, not in relief as ALL kit producers print them. I used to scratch away and simply paint them on struts.
My two cents about livery of this plane: in the site of Albin Denis that other modeller signalled to you falcon of Escadrille 75 is presented yellow (gold) and black.
In orthocromatic photos yellow became black, so I think that Roden made a mistake with black falcon. Profile by David Mechin of your subject confirm my doubt.
Five colors camo, as someone stated before myself, was applied at factory, but over ALL upper and side surfaces, why your Ni.24 have nose and wheels metallic painted? My opinion is that N3987 was a metallic one with camo applied on field, so without rules of Nieuport factory. Looking at the only known photo, it's possible that a single solid green was used to cover fuselage and, maybe, wings (we can't see wings in photo. Or green and brown? Here another interpretation: http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww1/f/113/21/2 . This time again with black falcon and wrong CDL undersides.
My two cents!
Roberto
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Hi Roberto, thanks for checking in! You do certainly provide some food for thought, and a few of the issues you mention I have considered, tried to research and simply guessed at already... Those floor boards, or heel plates you refer to are depicted as wood in most models I have seen on line, also in most kit instructions and in most reproduction aircraft... not that this means much! The only surviving Nieuport a 23, (Belgian and obviously rebuilt) has... wooden, straight boards as far as I can tell.. The 7000+ Nieuports were built by 5 manufacturers at least, so no-one can really tell today what was used for sure... Wood looks pretty to me! There is something, somewhere about the falcon insignia that claims on light coloured aircraft the background oval was blue and the falcon yellow but I can't find it now. The only photograph of this aircraft shows a white background (Almost for sure) and I don't think a yellow or gold falcon would provide much contrast, I think black is not a bad call on a dark background.. I'm happy to accept the kit decals. I agonized a long time over the camouflage, and looked at many prints of this photo - eventually I persuaded myself that there were camouflage demarcation lines (feint) on fuselage and tail - I will go for 5 colour. Why the silver wheel covers and metal panels around the nose? And then it hit me - these are actually personal markings, these are all panels easily replaced and paint removed or doped silver, and the aircraft would look very different in the air with a basically silver nose... does this make any sense? I'm also happy with silver undersides, although this may not be the most common option.. Anyway, I do like discussing the options, research is never finished and I do enjoy hearing other opinions!
Regards,
Marc
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I have absolutely no idea about the colours, but it looks very nice so far!
Those seatbelts look quite unusual color-wise, I wonder what the reason for that was :)
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Hi Marc!
First of all I made my apologies about color of floor boards, my memory betrayed me. So it's ok wooden color, I checked in my files...
About colors of N3987 I want only add that, checking Nieuport Fighters Vol.2 by Albatros Production, 5 colors camo started to be applied on French planes from October 1917, so when Nieuport is in production of Ni.27. In the section "Colors and markings" Ni.24 and Ni.24bis are described as overall aluminium doped, first examples of Ni.27 too.
In same book, photo 3 shows Ni.24 bis N4495 with same aluminium nose and camo fuselage as yours, just for complete infos.
Checking serial numbers, in same kit you have N3961, 26 numbers before yours and it's undoubtely overall aluminium dope, so it's sounds strange to me that N3987 was 5 colors camo. Sounds much more strange to me as a silver nose as personal markings in French Aviation Militaire (N4495 too?).
But, at least, it's your model and you may realize as you want and like it!
I continue to follow your next steps!
Roberto
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I am sorry it has been so long since I checked in on your build! It is really looking Terrific! The wood in the interior is exceptional and I love the seat and colorful belts!
RAGIII
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Thank You Rick and Roberto for checking in! Your comments are appreciated! I haven't posted here for a while... well, I got Covid-19 and was quite sick. I'm recovering now, I'm back at work and slowly picking up on the modelling. Covid affects your concentration and memory often, (amongst it's other nasty long term effects) and I'm really struggling at times - I feel like this build has been done by someone else! So the progress photographs are as much to show you where I am as to help me! Fortunately there was little damage in the box, the lone instrument is loose, and I repaired the rudder pedals already... There are colour notes on the instructions and I've just got to work out how I planned to assemble the cockpit - I know I had a plan before!
(https://iili.io/dEh1bs.jpg)
(https://iili.io/dEhl5X.jpg)
Regards and please keep safe,
Marc.
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Marc,
I hope you continue to get over the Covid-19 setback. I look forward to the progress you make with this build.
Kevin
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Marc
So sorry to hear you have been a victim of Covid 19 and I am delighted to hear you are recovering. Warmest wishes to you for your ongoing recovery!
Your Nieuport is looking really good and we look forward to seeing the build resume. It looks like its a kit that rewards a patient modeller!
kindest regards
Dave Wilson
Gold Coast
Australia
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Sorry to hear of your brush with this nasty virus, Marc, but absolutely delighted to hear you've "come out of the woods"! Take your time spinning up again and
finding your place marker on the Build, there's plenty of time to catch up!
Cheers,
Lance
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Wishing you a full recovery Marc.
I think you really got the interior wood just right. IIRC, Nieuports used some kind of processed board, not plywood, on the wood covering the front of the fuselage. Your rendition looks quite right to me.
sp
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I wish you a good recovery Marc !
You will get better ! I may take some time but if there is one thing where us modelers shine it is patience :)
All the best !
Luke
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Good to have you back here, Marc! I also have the Nieuport 24 (bis?) and plan to make it as an USAS training ride. So I am following your build here eagerly!
Richard
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Glad to hear you pulled through, Sir.
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Marc,
I am sorry to Hear of your Covid related illness. You certainly drive home the issue that there are Many Lasting effects that a survivor faces! It is great to see you back and posting.
As for your Nieuport I agree with SP. The wood effect looks perfect from what I have seen and read. I am sure you will get back on top of your plan in time!
RAGIII
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A really big Thank You to all of the members here with your good wishes and encouragement. I won't mention you all by name, but I appreciate every post. We have no idea yet how long the effects of Covid-19 will last, or the effect on multiple organ systems, but I can assure you from our practice experience so far there are serious long term problems coming. I am fortunately improving all the time, the neurological problems are the worst for me, but I am improving and just managing at work... modelling will be slow for a while and fortunately, this group build has no end date yet! The Nieuport will continue! Regards to you all! Keep safe, it isn't over yet... Marc.
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+1, all the best!
I like the Nieuport so far, I think I read somewhere the lower wings had different lengths, but I'm not sure any more as I could not find it any more. Doesn't look like it in the picture, though.
Get well soon, and take it easy!
Jeroen