forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: Rookie on April 18, 2020, 11:46:58 PM
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(https://i.postimg.cc/PrpJn6bk/HP-V-1500-IWM-IWM-Q69546-2.jpg)
Starting out
A long, long time ago, when I was 15 or so, I bought an Airfix kit of the Handley Page O/400. After working on it for several weeks, it eventually ended up in the trash bin. The wings kept sagging because I couldn’t get the rigging right. Two weeks ago, I bought the kit again when I visited a model builders store in Groningen. A few days later I found the exact same kit I had as a boy (the old box) on Ebay and I couldn’t stop myself from buying it. So now I have two.
I have taken a special interest in the aircraft that were used in a war for the first time. The development of aviation in general and that of war planes in particular. I even did a paper in high school, titled “The significance of military aircraft in the Great War”.
I am preparing to build a 1/32 scratch built model of a Handley Page V/1500. This undertaking is insane for several reasons:
1 - I have built a lot of aircraft from kits, but I have never built a scratch built model before
2 - it will be about 4 feet wide and 2 feet long
The latter is rather scary, but it would give great detail. I had the Windsock plans enlarged to 1/32. When I picked them up I broke into a cold sweat. This monster is going to take shape on the kitchen table inch by inch. Or rather foot by foot.
Nevertheless, I see this undertaking as a (huge) challenge of both my skills and my patience.
I was hesitant to start this build log, because (for me) it is a huge trial-and-error project and it will take years to complete, if ever. In addition to that I it has been decades that I did a serious kit build, my (non-permanent) workshop is the kitchen table and this is my first scratch build. In my defense I can say that techniques and materials have developed like mad and the build logs of fellow modelers (thank you Krow113) are invaluable.
So, [deep sigh] here I am.
Why the Handley Page V/1500? It may not be as sleek as a B2 Stealth, or as fast as the Valkyrie, or as sturdy as the B52 or as iconic as the Memphis Belle, and I can't even say it is beautiful, but it has a certain appeal. The box shaped fuselage, the enormous wings, the 4 uncowled engines and the overall size. It is a beautiful monster.
Research
Once I had chosen the V/1500 as my subject, I started collecting information on all three members of the Handsome Threesome (the O/100 and O/400 as well. The O/400 and V/1500 were not the same, but share many similarities. It didn’t take long to find out that information on the construction of the V/1500 is scarce. Fact is also that there were differences in details, because they were built by different manufacturers and new insights.
Three aircraft were delivered to No. 166 Squadron at RAF Bircham Newton (Norfolk) during October 1918. Most of the orders were canceled, because of the armistice of November 11 1918.
In comparison, 600 of the /100 and O/400 were build and delivered.
I collected books and magazines, just about anything that contained information about these aircraft.
A lot of information I found comes from the Internet, which is a big help, but unfortunately a good part of it is also contradictory. From the start I made a filing system with all that information. I scanned all text and photographs, and used OCR to convert everything into Word for the text and IrfanView to set up a picture gallery.
I studied a score of build logs, both from kits and scratch, to determine the pitfalls. And then, in November 2018, out of the blue, Wingnut Wings announced that they prepare to release both the O/100 and O/400 in the first quarter of 2020. Both of these kits are on my “badly wanted” list and have a span of 95 cm. In January 2020 I downloaded the instructions of the O/100. This helped me to determine the building sequence for my V/1500.
I have been trying to find drawings for almost 5 years. I have mailed numerous private persons, archives, estates and museums and have obviously been overlooking the obvious: The RAF museum.
After filling out a standard inquiry form I was sent an Excel document that lists some of the documents that were transferred from the IWM to the RAF museum. This particular document, that was kindly mailed to me by the staff of The Collections Inquiry Team, relates to drawings of the Handley Page V/1500. It turned out that there are more than 1100 original design drawings.
So I planned a visit to the Reading room of the RAF museum and spent 1 ½ day viewing these drawings. That is to say a few hundred of them. Frankly, it was so much, I didn’t know what do to with it.
The drawings were in surprisingly good condition, knowing they are over a century old. They were rolled in bundles and some were deformed and crumpled which made it difficult to make good photographs.
The first drawing I viewed took me by surprise. I was a detailed design of a dual control arrangement, and it was drawn in 1919.
Both Owers and Bruce mention that “…there was, surprisingly, no dual control….” That leads me to believe that both authors did not see these drawings.
In fact there are so many drawings, it would take a lot of time to study them in detail and index and catalog them in detail. The staff informed me that there are no plans to digitize the drawings anytime soon.
If I lived in London, I would do it for them. for free. I told the staff ‘this is not a reading room, this is a treasure room!’
Back home again, I started sorting the photographs and look for the details I need for the model.
Development
The Handley Page V/1500 was the answer to the German Gothas that attacked London. With a range of 1,300 miles it should be able to reach Berlin from bases on the East coast of England in the northern part of Norfolk, refuel in Czechoslovakia or neutral territory if fuel was insufficient and return to England. The O/400's range of 700 miles restricted them to bases in France. Besides, the railway clearances in France were not large enough to transport spares for the V/1500.
Because it was bigger it needed more power. In November 1917, Handley Page O/100 No. 3117 was equipped with four 200 hp. Hispano-Suiza engines mounted in two tandem pairs. I may have been a test to determine the effect of slipstream of propellers in close proximity of each other.
Scale
Calculating wingspans in 1/72, 1/48 or 1/32 scales, that would be either about 53 cm, 80 cm or 120 cm. The latter is rather scary, but it gives great detail.
For comparison: the French Nieuport 11 'Bébé' had an upper wingspan of 7.52 m (24 ft 8 in), the aileron of a HP V/1500 had a length of 8.51 m (27 ft 11in)...
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cxq2BMQd/Aileron-and-Nieuport-11.jpg)
Since this is my first scratch build ever, I may have bitten off a little more than I can chew, but we’ll find out as I go along.
Willem
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Best of luck, Sir.
Wood core with plastic covering strikes me as the best way to go for the immense wings.
If recollection serves, on was used in the Third Afghan War in 1919. That might make a traceable subject....
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Best of luck, Sir.
Wood core with plastic covering strikes me as the best way to go for the immense wings.
If recollection serves, on was used in the Third Afghan War in 1919. That might make a traceable subject....
Thank you Old Man. I have been given the same advice by several other modelers and it seems the right way to go. Not sure about which aircraft it wil be, but I think one of the three that were ready to bomb Berlin.
Tailplane
Because this was my first scratch build, I wanted to start with something simple. So I started with the rudders. Which, as it turned out, was not as simple as I thought.
If you take a cross-section it is actually a flattened rhombus with a leading and a trailing edge. Should I make rhombus shaped ribs? Or build it up from a few layers of styrene sheet and then shape it? What to do with the pivot point?
After some experimenting I now have the shape I am happy with and I will use it as a positive for a mould, so I could cast 4 identical rudders. The ribs and control horns will be added later.
I also cut out the rest of the tailplane and the elevators. There is a lot of styrene going into this project and I’m sure the Evergreen company will be pleased.
The tailplane will give me some room to experiment as it is almost as big as a Nieuport 11.
I will now be giving a little thought to how to construct the struts for this (and also the wings later on) I think I will make mockup tail fuselage section to try out some things.
Stay safe, keep modelling and thanks for looking in.
Willem
(https://i.postimg.cc/5NhPxBpT/Rudder-plan-cross-section-drawing.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xjFxZDm0/Approved-rudder-fifth-version.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nf9JqJ8R/Rejected-and-approved-rudders.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFwrkFy3/Tailplanes-finished-rudder.jpg)
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Yikes!!!! and I thought the Felixstowe is big! Kitchen table eh? I assume you have one of those huge long sturdy ones that come in Viking Long Houses. I also see many TV dinners and restaurant visits in your future. Awesome project, well done. Regards, Pete in RI.
ps, you had better call Richard at Aviattic now, he is going to need a LOT of lead time to print all the sheets of PC 10 or NIVO you will need to finish this beastie.
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She is going to be a good size , looking forward to your progress on this one if you don't mind me tagging along for the ride .
Terri
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Thanks Pete and Terri,
Well, we're plate-on-lap-in-front-of-tv eaters anyway, so that won't be problem. And I'm going to airbrush it, no decals. I got 1 mm strippers made by Bob from Bob's Buckles (they are brilliant!) and I don't think strippers and decals work well together, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Willem
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I thought that some of my more recent scratch builds were large, but they are dwarfs when compared with this monster. I agree with Old Man that wood cores skinned with plastic sheet are the best structures for the wings, byut you may also need to consider brass bar for reinforcement - they are long and might sag. I also suggest using brass bar as the basis for the fuselage - soldering is easy and as the joints will be concealed they do not need to be too neat, but the structure would be strong and would support the weight of the wings.
This is going to be a fascinating project - when i saw a scratch built 1/32 O/400 I was blown away. I heave recovered since only to be blown away a second time by this one!
Good luck with this and please keep us posted.
Stephen.
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You're going to need a bigger spray gun :o
This will be a fun watch.
Cheers,
vB
(https://www.spraydirect.co.uk/acatalog/devilbiss-advance-hd-conventional-spray-gun-pressure-feed-ADV-P-CONV.jpg)
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@ Bob:
…and I need to have a talk with Tamiya. Maybe they can send a tanker filled with PC10 or Olive drab my way.
@ Stephen:
Thanks for the kind words. I asked the late Des Delatorre for advice in March 1916 and this is what he said: "....As you have already mentioned the wings will be of main concern, depending on what materials you decide to use will determine if the wings will sag or not. Regardless of your building method I'm sure the lower wing will require some type of metal reinforcing manufactured to the correct dihedral. A one piece metal spar which would be fitted inside both bottom wings and through the fuselage would ensure rigidity in the wings which in turn would take a lot of tension off the rigging...."
(https://i.postimg.cc/QC07zd8c/Sections.jpg)
I started sketching a brass box-shaped constructions of the Cc section to support the wings a while ago, so I guess we're all on the same page there.
I also considered carbon fiber rods (used for kites) in the length of the wings, since this is very stiff and strong and it is lighter (and cheaper) than brass.
And then there are still plenty of pictures of Handley Pages with the wings resting on trestles...
By the way: I’ve changed my forum name to Rookie, which is what I am.
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By the way: I’ve changed my forum name to Rookie, which is what I am.
I think not. I just think that you are very ambitious and I really like what you are doing. I also think that the comment made by Old Man recently in my thread could also apply to you, but I will leave you to decide if it is appropriate!
Stephen.
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I read Old Man's comment in your thread. I am frequently called that, but not in relation to scale modelling ;)
Willem
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This is certainly an ambitious project! I will follow along with great interest. You have made a great start...small though it may seem compared to the overall size of the project!
RAGIII
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I did a little work on one aileron. It doesn't look like much yet, but don't worry, I'm going going to fill it, sand it, fill it again, sand it again and polish it. Times 4.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NGJ9xnsj/008b-File-handle.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/yxbDYDQZ/008c-Aileron-bends.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J4wh8JhL/008-Aileron-halves.jpg)
I learned not to use clamps the hard way, resulting in deformed parts. So now I use heavy objects to press two glued parts together.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4f2Hqyx/009-Aileron-drying.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NjDGRzks/010-Aileron-glued.jpg)
Tomorrow I'll make an early start and try to finish all the parts of the tailplane.
Willem
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One advantage of making small parts like this is that if things go wrong (as they invariably do....) they are good learning experiences and do not take up too much time or materials. You also build up a stock of easily stored small parts which are then ready for use when the much larger units are readt to take them. That is how I go about my scratch builds.
Stephen.
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I certainly agree on the statement that things invariably go wrong. A good part tof my Evergreen already ended up in the scratch stash box. The bends of the 2x2 mm styrene are a good example. The first batch I force-bent around a file handle, fed the copper wire trought the holes holes and poured boiling water over them first and than cold water to keep the bend. But somehow they got twisted. The second batch I softened first in boiling water, THEN force-bent them around a file handle, and THEN poured boling water over them again. Much better results.
@ Europapete: No the table does not come from a Viking Long House, but you're close..... It's from Ikea ;D
(https://i.postimg.cc/44Y7WTWF/012-Ikea-Norden.jpg)
And I try not to spend to much on tool storage. My plier rack is a converted spice rack that cost less that €3,00 and the glue and filler storage in the back is a rack for office accessoiries.
Willem
(https://i.postimg.cc/R07JQVFk/011a-Spice-rack.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HsFrq77G/011b-Plier-rack.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvKfMcfX/013-Workshop.jpg)
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I'm calling it a day. I have everything glued. The top tailplane is surprisingly light and sturdy.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CKnrw6NM/014-top-tailplane-before-glueing.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNVvd9R4/015-Top-tailplane-glued.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fsh60p9G/016-Top-tailplane-not-sagging.jpg)
No sagging so far.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kg4hp5Rb/017-Tailplane-all-planes.jpg)
Tomorrow will be a day of tedious work. Filling and sanding everything down to the right shape.
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Excellent results! I am in Awe!
RAGIII
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Hi Rookie, I'm going to follow this with great interest. It looks very well thought out and executed so far. I'm going to have a bash at a first scratch build soon so this will be a great thread to learn from for me.
Richie
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Thank you RAGIII and Richie.
Well, it may look like it's all well thought out, but I have my doubts.
I started sanding down the edges of one of the planes, but it didn't work out the way I hoped.
1. it takes AGES to get the right shape
2. there is not enough plastic "body"in the plane to allow for a gradual thinning towards the edge. The problem is that I'm almost sanding all of the 0.5 mm Evergreen away.
3. the sanding leaves a lot of Evergreen "dust"
(https://i.postimg.cc/25zTWDM0/019-Sanded-plane-02.jpg)
These are already big parts. Maybe I should try the method Stephen (balsa core) suggested?
Anyone?
The making of a mould to cast the rudders isn't satisfactory either. I used this method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saOHcz4ehpQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saOHcz4ehpQ)
The silicon dries very slowly and if I want to finish this build before the next World War One Centennial I will have to come up with somthing else.
(https://i.postimg.cc/s2jdgbcr/020-Rudder-in-silicone.jpg)
Maybe this is the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVZLXLaidjQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVZLXLaidjQ)
Has anyone tried this method?
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Excellent results! I am in Awe!
RAGIII
You could learn a lot about managing a tidy workspace here, Rick
;D
Richard
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I have abandoned the silicon mould project. The layer being this thick, it takes about three light years to dry. So I freed the rudder from the silicon-slush and made a mess of the kitchen counter top while doing it and spreading a vinegar odor throughout the house. When it is fully dried I hope I can peel the silicon rubbish off and try method number 2 with the Blue Stuff/Oyumaru. Less messy and reusable.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YSyPBftN/021-Evergreen-x-3.jpg)
Making a new start with the tailplane too. The parts I did yesterday will be re-used at some point of course. On scale everything is 3 mm thick. So I glued a 1.5 + 1.0 + 0.5 Evergreen sheet together with Micro Weld. My wife didn't really like the combination of the two smells of silicon and glue, but we're still on speaking terms.
I saved the rudder from a serious drowning accident...
(https://i.postimg.cc/50RxXCbb/022-Rudder-after-drowning-accident.jpg)
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Kensar:
Willem, looking at what you are attempting with your Handley Page build and knowing how big it is , you may need to rethink your construction approach.
I suspect at the very least, you will have to make more 'traditional' 2 part molds. The parts in the video you linked to are one-sided parts, not two sided parts like you are attempting to make.
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Yes, you are right Ken. I didn't think that one through. What is your opinion about the other method, using Blue Stuff/Oyumaru?
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I cannot offer any constructive suggestions at the moment other than to try the balsa core method for your control and flying surfaces.
One thing about this project is that when you make a mess you do not do things by halves do you?!
Stephen.
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Considering the size and relatively simple shapes of the parts you are trying to make, like Stephen says, I think the balsa core method would work better, but that will still have its challenges due to the size of the parts.
As far as thinking things through beforehand, one cannot foresee every problem. You can learn a lot from trial runs and trying things.
Best of luck on your project. Others may be able to offer ideas based on their experiences.
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Considering the size and relatively simple shapes of the parts you are trying to make, like Stephen says, I think the balsa core method would work better, but that will still have its challenges due to the size of the parts.
As far as thinking things through beforehand, one cannot foresee every problem. You can learn a lot from trial runs and trying things.
Best of luck on your project. Others may be able to offer ideas based on their experiences.
Another vote for the balsa core method, it's pretty easy, quick and reliable
The other thing is called 'experience', and it has to be earned the hard way. It teaches you loads, the best of which is persistence.
Richard
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Glad you and your wife are still on speaking terms. Hope you find a solution to the problem, never done a scratch build before so can't offer any advice.
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Thanks Stephen, Ken & Richard for your advice. It's unanimous.
@ Stephen: Oh yes, I messed up big. I should have tried one and not all the planes and elevators all at the same time. It would have saved me a lot of material.
@ Ken: There will be more trying out things before ruining large amounts of Evergreen
@ Richard: I totally agree with you. I have little to no experience, and it is something I have to earn. I do not give up easily though.
...And back to square one.
I carefully looked at Ken's Fokker V.23 and Ron Kootje's Caproni Ca.3, two of the wonderful builds on this forum. Ron was kind enough to send me some photo's without the Photo*ucke* mutilations.
So I gave it a try. I had some 1.5 mm balsa lying around. I glued to strips together using ordinary wood glue and shaped the core of an elevator and then two strips of 0.5 mm styrene around it. The styrene strips are a little wider than they show on the Digmayer plans to allow the the bending of the trailing edge.
I must admit, it was much easier than I expected and I am happy with the result. I am going to make the wingtip the way Ron did for his Caproni. This was just a trial but I think it worked out fine.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qMNFrs0p/023-Balsa-core-trial-01-b.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqTsCvqY/024-Balsa-core-trial-02-b.jpg)
Today is a holiday in Holland and I'll try to get some work done.
Thanks for looking in.
Willem
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Great Willem, so glad you've not been disheartened and are still working on this project. Looking forward to seeing what today's holiday brings!
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Hi,
Here is the link to my Caproni build https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=533.0 For the main wing of your beast I would not use balsa but a harder wood. And don't glue a strip for the leading edge but fold a big sheet of styrene on it self scoring it with a ball, you can also score the ribs. Regarding you silicone adventure I can cast parts professionally if you want. I wanted to scratch build this plane also until Wingnut wings came on the seen with the beast so I will wait it out for now.
Ron
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I'm glad to see you are making progress and haven't gotten discouraged. Every scratchbuilder must develop methods that work for him. The Fokker was my first scratchbuild and a great learning opportunity. Like you said, one has to earn their successes.
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That looks very good for a first try. You can only get better with each new effort - so keep going. I agree with Ron about balsa for the wings - something more robust would be better simply because of the size and weight problem.
Stephen.
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Hi Ron,
Thanks for your advise. Today I did some trials. I took a piece of 0.5 mm Evergreen and scored the ribs. Looks good. I also scored this lengthwise and folded it like you said. No need to glue on a separate leading edge. Looks good too. Thanks for your offer to cast part. I will PM you about that.
So, no pics of finished tailplane parts, but I learned a lot today. Again.
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And thank you Ken and Stephen for your kind words.
Inventing your own methods is a fun proces.
I was a little distracted today by an unbelievably beautiful book that arrived yesterday: "French Aircraft of the First World War" by Davilla and Soltan. Great reading and reference. Tons of drawings and that's what it weighs too.
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Just noticed: it's a really ambitious project, the subject is really worth as it's a magnificent early heavy bomber. I will follow, best wishes for your build!
Ciao
Giuseppe
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I did some work on the elevators. On Ron's advice I scribed the ribs and made desperate wingtips. Still needs a little work, but I'm happy with the result so far.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVSd5FKX/025-Balsa-core-trial-03.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1znFTdmz/026-Balsa-core-trial-02d.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Fsp0JcCh/027-Balsa-core-trial-02d.jpg)
Also I am experimenting a little with the struts of pine and beach:
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgrC3DKC/028-strut-trial-01.jpg)
I am thinking about making a steel scraper with half the form of the strut and a jig to hold the wood steady.
I've read some things about using bamboo for the struts. I will give that a try too.
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The idea of making a custom cutter is a good idea - it will give you more consistent results and be much quicker. The wings look very good - certainly a project for which you have my greatest respect.
Stephen.
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Thanks Stephen for the kind words.
This is the harvest from the RAF Museum. A few days before the lockdown, I made a couple of hundred photographsa of the hp V/1500 drawings. Lots to learn.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzYQH0Y7/029-RAF-Museum-drawings.jpg)
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The new process looks to be working well! I am looking forward to more!
RAGIII
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Very happy to see this progressing. Looks like you had a very worthwhile visit to the RAF museum. Still following with great interest!
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That is an amazing amount of information that you collected. I must consider them as a possible source in future. I was fortunate enough to be directed to a source of drawings on the net which I did not know existed but it is possible that similar drawings may be in the museum archives too.
Stephen.
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Thanks guys,
@ Stephen:
What source of drawings on the net are you referring to?
The staff of the RAF Museum were incredibly kind and helpful. The archive is enormous and although much of the material has not been digitized, it seems the staf know exactly what they have and where it is.
They can be reached at this adress: [email protected]
Willem
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Sorry Willem I was not clear! I was referring to my current build - the DH 1A. I am not sure whether the museum would have drawings for that but it might be worth having a try. Thanks for the link - I intend to follow that up.
Stephen.
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I did some work on the elevators. They are a little crude and the areas that need more attention are marked with red pencil. I hope to work on that today. When they are ready I will start with the three planes.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gkd4FR6w/029-Elevators-marked-with-red-pencil.jpg)
Although one normally wouldn't start with the tailplane, I think it was a sensible decision. This way I can gain experience for the enormous wings. I ordered sheets of 1400 x 1000 x 0,5 mm styrene because this is what I will use the most. These big sheets are ideal because the span of the model is 120 cm and the 4 wings have a length of 57 cm (without the central part). I really have to think ahead how to handle this.
I have enough material to experiment with. As advised the core will not be of balsa. I have some different sorts of wood. It will have to be light, stiff and easy to shape. Maybe I can reinforce it with fiberglass rods or aluminium u-profile. Or maybe a brass support frame including incidence and dihedral. If I do that for both the upper and lower wing, the cabane struts will have to be reinforced too because of the added weight. (Solid lines would be brass.)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pr1BtvXX/030-Brass-reinforcement-design-01.jpg)
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You are moving steadily forward, always a good thing! Looking forward to more!
RAGIII
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Nice progress, I have looked into surf boards they use foam board reinforced with Epoxy. Here is a link of what material I mean.
https://www.polyservice.nl/pu-schuimplaat/88-pu-schuimplaat-100-x-50-cm-3400.html
I would make ribs of the shape of the wing say every 10 cm and on the spots where the struts go make reinforcement holes and run two stiff spars of bras or wood in the centre and glue the foam in between the air foils, then sand this in shape witch is real easy but messy. when done coat the whole wing in Epoxy resin and let it dry. Then use the styrene. That is what I would do.
Regards Ron
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Thanks for your advice Ron,
I've looked at some YouTube video tutorials about using epoxy resin and looked at the foam from your link. I think this is the way to go.
Yesterday a package arrived with 4 sheets of 140 x 100 cm styrene from www.kunststofshop.nl. I didn't mean to order that much, but I misinterpreted te size of these sheets. I thought it was 14 x 100 cm, not 140 x 100. But, since I am known for wasting a lot of styrene, it may come in handy.
Still busy with the stabilizers and elevators and I will have something to show soon.
Willem
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Don't worry, I'm still here and I've not given up. Just been busy with other things like the weed in the garden that seems to grow like it's radio-active.
Stabilizers and elevators ready for rib-strips to be applied and to be given a (first) layer of primer. Next things to make are the hinges, the control horns and the slots in the stabilizers for the control cables.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3QWMDBF/031-All-parts-of-tailplane.jpg)
Also been doodling with a concept for a strut. Built up from bamboo snack sticks.
I'll be back
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hx3RXspb/034-Strut-experiment.jpg)
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Glad you're still at it Rookie, I'm so impressed with what you've done so far. I've made a start on a scratch build and it is daunting! Keeping the weeds at bay is daunting too, every day there are more. They keep coming back like the Terminator!
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The tail feathers are looking great! The struts should be very sturdy. I am finding bamboo is fairly easy to carve and sand so I am sure you will do fine!
RAGIII
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Thank you for the kind comments Rick and Ritchie.
@ Ritchie: I found it hard to get the radius and arc of the wingtips right while maintaining a perfectly perpendicular leading edge. It took me a while to get them the way I wanted. Eventually I got them right with some filling (Revell Plasto), priming (Mr. Surfacer 500) and polishing with a 6000 grit pad.
@ Rick: Working with bamboo was not as hard as I expected, just as long as I use sharp tools.
I made one control horn from brass tube and a piece copper sheet. I squeezed the tube in a vice to get it flattened like a strut and CA glued the copper sheet in it. It will have have two holes for the control cables later on. I have to make a couple more for all the elevators and ailerons. On the rudders they are a little different.
In the meantime I started applying the rib tape from Mr. von Buckles. More later and thanks for looking in.
(https://i.postimg.cc/m1w8pH6z/035-control-horn-parts.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/m1w8pH6z)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SYqgGrVb/036-control-horn-assembled.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SYqgGrVb)
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Hi Rookie, that control horn looks brilliant. You patience and perseverance are a lesson I need to follow. This is a wonderful project!
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Nice updates and very useful building tips.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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I do like those struts - very strong but because they are made from wood they will only need varnishing. The tail surfaces look good too - but I am nor surprised that you had some problems with the tips. A really good solution to the problem though - one which I used on the very large wing of the Dornier Rs II that I made a couple of years ago.
Looking forward to more updates - this is a truly amazing project.
Stephen.
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It's been a while, I know, but I'm still here. But after all, this is exactly what it says on the tin: "Slowgress report". Some of you might have thought that I abandoned this ambitious project, but the truth is that because of the Covid 19 limitations I am working from home now and it meant that I had to sacrifice my kitchen table "workshop" for my business laptop and an extra 27" inch screen. The last two weeks it is too hot to do anything anyway in terms if modeling. Everything sticks to everything and styrene almost becomes fluid. Today it cooled down to a mere 29.8 Celcius. Meanwhile, Ron Kootje has shown his craftsmanship (again) and did a brilliant job. He managed to cast four perfect looking resin rudders, using my own fabrication as a mould. When you look at the photograph, I don't have to point out which is which. Thanks again Ron, great job!
(https://i.postimg.cc/d7QBpH4j/037-Cast-rudders.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/d7QBpH4j)
And so these rudders and the fabulous scratch-builds of Stephen and Richie (just to name a few) gave me a kick in the but to get it on again.
I cleared a 2x2 foot corner of "my" kitchen table an now I'm applying the rib tape from Mr. von B. It is just a little harder to keep everything on the table with the fan blowing over it.
And though it's a little frustrating to show beautiful work that's not even mine, I hope to return soon to show some of my own slowgress.
I'll be back….
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Superb rudders and a good idea to have 4 identical ones made. Sometimes scratch building each part has its drawbacks - casting in resin from one good part is a neat way around that problem.
Stephen.
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It’s been quiet on this build log for a while.
The thing is, my arthrosis has been playing up recently. It’s always there, but some days it hinders me more than others, especially in the hands. The moist weather and the high humidity don’t help either. It would have been wiser to start a slightly less ambitious project, but I intend to finish what I started, no matter how long it takes. If it is up to me, it will NOT be shelved.
This build was triggered by the announced release of the Handley Page O/100 and O/400 by Wingnut Wings. Sadly, we all know that that is not going to happen anytime soon, if at all. To be honest, I find the news page on their website a little ambiguous.
"...for the time being..." suggest something that is temporary, but the last sentence sounds more like a farewell.... I was saving money to buy both kits, and build the V/1500 myself, so there would be a complete set of the Handsome Threesome.
Frankly, I still have no idea where I would have put them once they were finished, but I just HAD to have them. Turns out that I only have to find space for one.
Fortunately, I downloaded the photographs, the instruction manual and the pictures of the sprues of the O/100 before they were deleted from the website.
On the Large Scale Planes forum, Mike Swinburne has published a fantastic build log of the only O/100 kit that was sold.
https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/84725-wingnut-wings-handley-page-o100/ (https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/84725-wingnut-wings-handley-page-o100/)
He has posted lots of beautiful pictures of the build, and was kind enough to send me a picture of the sprue with the control horns for the elevators and ailerons. Remarkably, the top of these, where the control wires run through, are not rounded, but angled. They don’t look anything like the prototype I made from brass. On the (few) pictures I found on all three bomber types, they look rounded. But details are vague, grainy and pixelated when magnified, at best.
I assume our friends at WNW did their homework, so the control horns on the sprue will be my starting point, although the dimensions are different, and the form may have developed into something else. After all, there are 2 years between the development of the O/100 and the V/1500.
Unfortunately, when I was in the RAF museum in March, I simply did not have the time to study all the drawings. The sheer volume of the drawings was overwhelming. There are more than 1100 of them and I only had 1 ½ day.
So what’s the score?
Things go slow, but I AM making progress. I already said that I’m in the process of applying the rib-tape (Bob’s Buckles). He custom made the for me and they are 1 mm wide. That may not seem much, but when they are clear-coated, primed and sprayed in the right color, the will have the desired effect.
However, when a started to stick them on, I found that the control surfaces were far from perfect. The angles were rounded and there were lots of dents and bumps, all the result of sloppy initial work. So, I correct these mistakes as I go along. When that’s done, the tape goes on and will be sealed with a couple of layers of clear coat.
Needless to say, the rudders that Ron Kootje casted for me are perfect. Only the leading edges need to rounded once I have separated the rudders from the guides.
I chose to glue the four elevators to the control surfaces and then spray them. I’m afraid they are too delicate to handle once painted. The hinges (three on each elevator) are strips of 0,5 mm copper sheet, 4 mm wide and 8 mm long.
Meanwhile, I’m jealously looking at the builds of Old Man’s ‘El Sonora’, Ken’s Avro 504, Stephen’s de Haviland and Kent’s ‘Skeletal' Fokker Dr. I’ just to name a few.
What? No pictures?
No, not yet. You guys have seen enough of my fumblings, so I will post pictures when (and if) I have something really worthwhile to show.
Don’t worry, I WILL be back.
Willem
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Take your time,
I will continue to follow with an high interest ...
best
er me
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Keep posting. Even failures can give those of us that haven't tried scratchbuilding hints! I am looking forward to your progress.
RAGIII
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Thank you Giampaolo and Rick for the encouraging words.
I will post some pictures as soon as I have all the rib tapes on the control surfaces, and of each following step.
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Slow and stead wins the race ;) Looking forward on the next up-date :)
Terri
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For me, every scratchbuild is a journey. Some are relatively quick and enjoyable. Some are difficult and seem to go on forever. In the end, none of it matters. It all has to fit between everything else that goes on in life. So, no matter how long it takes, as long as you want to continue, its a decision that is up to you alone.
Thanks for sharing your journey with us. Like Rick alluded to, everyone that looks through your thread could pick up something that makes their own journeys more enjoyable.
Looking forward to more updates - whenever they may happen.
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Thank you Terri and Ken for your kind words.
I am still enjoying everything about this build. I only wish I had more time for it than I have right now. But when I'm not busy building, I am still planning ahead, and figuring out how to build the other segments. The cockpit will be a real challenge too. Colin Owers told me that there is more technical information on the Zeppelin Staaken (my next 1/32 project....nah, just kidding) than on the Handley Page V/1500. I asked the good people of the RAF museum's Reading Room if the museum holds an instruction manual to erect the beast. I figure that there must have been one at the time, (this being such a complex machine,) similar to the one for the O/400. I simply forgot to ask when I was there last March. The archive is enormous, so perhaps something can be found.
I ordered a spraybooth and it will be delivered this week. Coming weekend I plan to spray the parts that are ready. It will be my first experience with airbrushing, and yes, I will test it on some spare styrene, before I ruin everything. Again. And I will post the results, whatever they may be.
I value all the input and advice that all the kind people on this wonderful forum give me and it makes me feel like we are making this journey together.
Willem
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Willem,
Al scratch builds a re a journey of some kind and we all make errors on those journeys. I too sometimes "enjoy" the accompaniments of the ageing process which can be disabling in a modelling sense. However I try to regard regard a setback as a learning opportunity - sometimes what works in your head does not work in the hand - so just think again!
With reference to tiny details on these sometimes poorly recorded machines: just go with what you think was most probable, or in some cases what you can make. There are very few if any people out there who would be able to dispute your interpretation of the real parts, and even fewer who will notice! They will be impressed by the finished model - or in the case of this one, overwhelmed!
Good luck and post more when you are ready. We are waiting....and can continue to wait.
Stephen.
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Keep at Rookie, us newbie scratch builders need a big dose of patience, stubbornness and sheer will power!
I'm planning on using bamboo skewers for struts too. It all seems a bit daunting but the great scratch builders here are always on hand with great advice.
Richie
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Thanks Stephen and Ritchie for your support and patience.
I know my pitfall is getting stuck on details. I can dwell for weeks on them and in the end I know that I have spent more time researching than building. I am very aware of that. I need to loosen up a bit I guess.
I have a question about fillers. I use Revell Plasto for filling little dents. It dries fast, it is easy to sand and the results are good, once sealed. I regularly us Mr. Surfacer 500 applied very thinly with a brush. It shrinks, but when sanded and a second or third layer applied again I get a nice smooth surface. I don't have to worry about sanding the surrounding styrene away accidentally in the proces. It behaves a little like chalk so sometimes I mix it with a few drops of plastic glue to make it a little stronger. It is not well suited to correct shapes like the wingtips though. It is to brittle and will crumble. Also, when I use it to fill seems, it cracks open easily. So I need something to do "structural"work and correct shapes. Any suggestions for other brands? I have not gotten satisfactory results with Milliput (yet) but maybe I am using the wrong way.
Willem
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I find that Miliput is the ultimate putty, but it is very messy. Another alternative that is almost as good is automobile body glazing putty. I don't know what they call it there in The Netherlands, but here in the US one can find it in auto parts stores. It is solvent based so it shrinks some, but it is very sandable. I have used it for structural parts, like wingtips. There are other auto body puttys that may work as well. Bondo is one that works well. It is a polyester based putty that you mix with a catalyst before applying. It sticks to polystyrene well. It cures in about 20 minutes.
Hope these ideas help.
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Thank you for the tip Ken. I will give Milliput another try. I think I need to be a little more patient with it. I will keep automobile body glazing putty in mind though. I'd like to give that a try too.
Got some work done with the rib tape. Here and there a little straightening is needed, but I think basically it looks okay. I'll do the rest of them tonight and tomorrow morning and then put on some layers of clear coat to fixate them. Then I hope to prime and airbrush them in good old PC10. It looks a little sloppy right now. I hope it turns out alright.
I'm not sure if I'll use the rib tape for the wings though. I think they are great for smaller surfaces, but scoring the styrene for the wings will work better for me. It saves time and it is not so hard to keep them straight.
Seeing the tailplane surfaces laid out like this it has about the same size of an average WNW kit. In the top of the second photo is a gauge I use for the position of the hinges, control horn and control cables.
Willem
(https://i.postimg.cc/SYpxZppT/038-Ribtape-01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SYpxZppT)
(https://i.postimg.cc/njmLYhN9/039-Ribtape-02.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/njmLYhN9)
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Good to see these surfaces nearly complete. I use Evergreen strip for the ribs on my models with Mr Surfacer 1000 around the edges on the 1/32 scale wings It gave a very good effect.
Stephen.
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Be carefull if you use automotive putty. It heats up as it cures ( chemical reaction) so only apply it in thin layers, if you goop it on it can soften and deform adjacent plastic. Regards, Pete in RI
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I 'm really enjoying your progress , tail looks fantastic so far :)
Terri
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Good to see these surfaces nearly complete. I use Evergreen strip for the ribs on my models with Mr Surfacer 1000 around the edges on the 1/32 scale wings It gave a very good effect.
Stephen.
I have plenty of time (and styrene ;) to give that a try too. I have seen great examples of them.
Be careful if you use automotive putty. It heats up as it cures ( chemical reaction) so only apply it in thin layers, if you goop it on it can soften and deform adjacent plastic. Regards, Pete in RI
Thanks for the heads-up Pete
I 'm really enjoying your progress , tail looks fantastic so far :)
Terri
Yes, it's is finally starting to look like something, although, as usual it is all taking longer than expected, but then this is not a speed contest.
I have made slots for all 12 hinges by hand-drilling 4 holes for each slot with a 0.5 mm drill, and than I carefully scraped out the rest of the styrene with a fresh no. 11 blade:
(https://i.postimg.cc/cgRr2t5b/040-Hinge-slot.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgRr2t5b)
...and inserted and CS-glued the hinges in place:
(https://i.postimg.cc/G8w4XxzD/041_Slot_with_hinge.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8w4XxzD)
Ribtape is applied on the rudders and the lower planes and elevators:
(https://i.postimg.cc/0K9bs5T2/044_Rudder_with_ribtape.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0K9bs5T2) (https://i.postimg.cc/7bRpdt0j/045_Elevator_with_rib_tape.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7bRpdt0j)
Last item is the big topplane and elevators. I am drawing guidelines for the ribtape, (mis)using two Exacto clamps as a straight angle:
(https://i.postimg.cc/TpYpNwjt/043_Tailplane_with_ribtape_guidelines.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TpYpNwjt)
The ribtape (thank you Bob Von Buckles) are 1mm wide:
(https://i.postimg.cc/QF69Z9g4/046-Strippers.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QF69Z9g4)
When cut a little longer than needed, I gently press and hold one end to the styrene, and than position the strip above the penciled guideline and drop it. They are a little stiff and straight as an arrow, so if you use them with care, they look very sharp. If I drop it wrong, I peel if of, leaving the beginning in place, and "drop" it again. The tack is just right: it still sticks after re-adjusting it a few times. Don't try to stretch it, for it is elastic and will return to its original length. So be sure to cut them a little longer than needed and use a very sharp knife to cut the excess when it is in place. Works like a charm, and with some practice I am finally getting the hang of it.
Thanks for looking in and the positive comments. They are much appreciated.
Willem
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When you have completed the tail unit you could put it in the cabinet as an example of an experimental type....it would be as big as many single seaters!
Stephen.
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When you have completed the tail unit you could put it in the cabinet as an example of an experimental type....it would be as big as many single seaters!
Stephen.
Lord knows that's true, Stephen. I have seen somewhere a photograph of young ladies handling elevators of the O/400, and they seemed about the size of a Pup's wing panels.
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When you have completed the tail unit you could put it in the cabinet as an example of an experimental type....it would be as big as many single seaters!
Stephen.
Indeed, and I could call it "Handley Page E/500" (E for "Experimental") ;)
Lord knows that's true, Stephen. I have seen somewhere a photograph of young ladies handling elevators of the O/400, and they seemed about the size of a Pup's wing panels.
I have the Amodel 1/32 Nieuport 11 "Bebe" kit. The span of the topwing is actually smaller than the span of the top tailplane of the V/1500...
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Your Tail Surfaces are really looking great! This will be a Huge Beast for sure!
RAGIII
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The bottom tail surfaces are clear coated and left to dry.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDK34GZx/20201003_150221.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDK34GZx)
The rudders are a little more difficult. I have to spray them and than put them to dry without touching the surfacces. So I made 4 little jigs to support them on the rotatable disc that came with the spray booth. The holes are exactly in the right position. Sometimes we are all entitled to have a little luck aren't we? This way I can spray them en let them dry on the same disc without touching.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YLYb7pFJ/20201003_150335.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLYb7pFJ)
Spraying and drying the top tail surface is a completely other thing. The only point I can use to handle them are the hinges. Looping a thread around the hinges and sticking the other end of the threads to the inside top of the spray booth may work. But than I can only spray one side at the time. I have to wait until the sprayed side has dried and then turn it over. I wil figure this out.
Spraying the large wings later on will be another challenge.
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Everything is clearcoated. Topplane left hanging out to dry. Tomorrow the other side will be sprayed. The ribtapes will then be solidly in place and I can start with the control horns.
(https://i.postimg.cc/z354CJQL/049_Spraybooth_01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z354CJQL)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RJM84Rt1/050_Spraybooth_02.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RJM84Rt1)
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Awesome!
RAGIII
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Nice progress, Rookie. You're handling the issues that come up in scratchbuilding well.
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Scratch building invariably presents unexpected problems: part of the fun is to find solutions which work and you are certainly doing that. Excellent progress BTW.
Stephen.
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Tail unit is looking fab so far :)
Terri
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They look great. Genius idea with the holding jig too!
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Thanks everyone for looking in and the kind comments. :) I hope to show some more progress after the weekend.
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Me and my big mouth...
I told you 'd be back after the weekend! I just didn't say what weekend. Haven't been sitting on my hands though. The control horns prove to be a little harder to make than I anticipated.
The first one I made looked rather good if I may say so myself.
035 (https://i.postimg.cc/m1w8pH6z/035-control-horn-parts.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/m1w8pH6z)
The problem is, I have to make 8 of them, and it would be nice if they all looked the same. The rounded top was especially the problem. I made some more by hand, but they didn't come within a mile of the first one.
Then I had a brilliant idea. I made a punch out of a piece of copper rod. The shape was spot on and I clamped it into a hand drill vice. I then stamped about three dozen of them (just to be sure) out of 0.5 mm brass sheet.
051 (https://i.postimg.cc/5jNdVKf7/051.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5jNdVKf7) 052 (https://i.postimg.cc/N5nwb8qN/052.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5nwb8qN) 053 (https://i.postimg.cc/HJD11pLX/053.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJD11pLX) 054 (https://i.postimg.cc/9DqHk4cc/054.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9DqHk4cc)
In the process I murdered my cutting mat, photographic background and the kitchen table. The wife wasn't too pleased.....
055 (https://i.postimg.cc/wy9K30LB/055.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wy9K30LB) 056 (https://i.postimg.cc/v1rFQp1j/056.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v1rFQp1j) 057 (https://i.postimg.cc/9z83FPMW/057.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9z83FPMW)
So I ended up with a container full of brass flees, because that's what they are once you handle them. If you try to pick one up with a pair of tweezers, it's gone. I mean really gone. Forever.
058 (https://i.postimg.cc/dk6bCrjj/058.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dk6bCrjj) 059 (https://i.postimg.cc/Lgsr35yK/059.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lgsr35yK)
The very first control horn I made had a little strip on it, that slid into the brass tube, that I then squeezed and flattened in my vice. That worked very well. Only, when I made the punch, I forgot to include this little strip
No problem, I thought, I'll just solder it on afterward. It didn't work. The "flees" were too thin to begin with and when I tried to double them by soldering two of them together it looked like crap.
So, back to the drawing board. I have a little Proxxon milling cross table that I may put to some good use.
I hope to show some more progress after the weekend. ;)
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I would be pissed about the kitchen table as well :o
Was wondering if this is an item which could be cast in resin ?
Terri
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Oh the joys of scratch building - even at the cost of the kitchen table!
Better luck with the next attempt.
Stephen.
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Collateral damage - one of the less discussed aspects of scratchbuilding.
We've all been there.
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Been there, done that, and even worse...
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Ouch! RIP kitchen table. On the bright side, there are some lovely Irish linen tablecloths out there... :)
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Pity for the kitchen table, but I think almost everyone of us sooner or later managed to spoil a piece of furniture ::)
Very nice punch concept and making of tiny pieces.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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It's been quiet for some time on this blog, due to personal matters and a loss off gusto. There are a lot of beautiful builds on this forum, both scratch and kits, and I sometimes find the level of quality quite intimidating, making me unsure of the quality of my own messing around. Nevertheless, I have not been sitting on my hands. I have done a lot of experimenting to improve my skills. I’ve tested different glues, fillers, materials and construction methods. Also I’ve been busy making sketches of the layout of the cockpit and the IP, the struts and the rigging. And I have a few wild ideas for the wings…
As you may know, I’ve had problems with the control horns. I just couldn't get them right. There are 8 on the elevators, and 8 on the ailerons.
This aircraft has a lot of (complicated) rigging, and the control horns are part of that. Because they catch the eye, I want them to look good, and the same. After struggling for a few weeks, I decided to have them photoetched by a third party. For that, the manufacturer needs CAD drawings in .dwg format, so I had to find someone who can do this for me. I can draw up a pretty good dimensional drawing by hand, but not in a CAD program and the learning curve of these programs is pretty steep. David Hall (Jaysena) has offered me kindly to do this step for me.
(https://i.postimg.cc/76rpCMpq/060.jpg)
PE fret control horns for ailerons and elevators
Furthermore I have started anew with the tailplane, because I wasn’t happy with the results. The surfaces were not the right size, sometimes of by 2mm, the rounding at the tips didn’t have the same radius, the thickness was uneven and the rib simulation was not as I had hoped. I had to use a lot of filler to correct this problem. Long story short: it looks very sloppy.
The fins and rudders:
The four rudders that Ron Kootje cast for me were all wrong. That was my own fault entirely (sorry Ron). I overlooked the fact that the rudders (in contrast to the rudders of the O/100 and O/400) were balanced although it clearly says so in the article in Aircraft Pictorial April 1962 “Handley Page V/1500” by Jack Bruce.
Marty Digmayer sent me a sketch with details of the fin and rudder. Each rudder has an extra control horn that slides through a slot in the fin.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KzvX3MFV/061.jpg)
Copyright:Marty Digmayer
In the datafile picture no. 55 shows the tail of the machine in full view. Unfortunately it’s not very sharp, but Rob Mulder, author of ‘The First Aviation Exhibition Amsterdam – 1919’ sent me this high-res photograph which shows tons of details.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1X7N1w5Z/062.jpg)
Handley Page V/1500 on the ELTA exhibition, guarded by Dutch sentries
The fins:
Each fin has 4 brackets to secure them between the upper and lower stabilizer. Each fin has a slot in the trailing edge to accommodate the movement of the rudder control horn.
The fin parts before assembly…
(https://i.postimg.cc/63f05dr2/063.jpg)
…and assembled
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdynjcKd/064.jpg)
The rudders:
The rudders turn on pivots (1mm brass rod) that are embedded in the leading edge of the stabilizers. The two outside rudders have control horns with two arms, the inner two have three arms. Apart from the control cables, a reinforcement cable runs through the hole of each control arm and is connected to the top and the bottom rudder.
All four rudders are interconnected via a connection cable that runs through the fuselage just forward of the tail gunner’s cockpit.
The horns are made of 0.5 x 1.0 mm brass strip. and will not be installed until the final assembly of the tailplane.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Njhxzvyf/065.jpg)
Soldered rudder control horns
The rudder parts before assembly…
(https://i.postimg.cc/kX0mxxs4/066.jpg)
…and after.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBz5y8jF/067.jpg)
I made a little jig to make sure every part has the same length and to help me to get the rib simulations (0,25 x 1 mm plastic strip) aligned. The strips are laid out over both the fin and the rudder and glued. When al were placed they were separated and cut to the right length.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MKMwMsyN/068.jpg)
Alignment jig
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7PtCtYH/069.jpg)
Rudder, fin + strips
I’ll be back.
Willem
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Great to see you back Willem, in fine form too. The tailplane looks very impressive and precise. We're both on a steep learning curve with scratch building but will clamber our way up in the end.
What you are doing does not in any way look like messing around to me. I'm quite intimidated in fact!
Richie
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Hi Willem ,
The tail parts are looking really good , rudders are super ! I still wonder on where you are going to display this beast when completed :o
Alexis
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Hi Willem ,
The tail parts are looking really good , rudders are super ! I still wonder on where you are going to display this beast when completed :o
Alexis
I agree completely with Alexis! Looking fantastic!
RAGIII
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Slowgress but progress. I am so excited how it will turn out. Great work up to now.
Bye Manni
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One of the things we all do in scratch building (long after we have done quite a lot), is look back at what we have recently done and decide that it is not good enough! However there comes a stage when we have to recognise that perfection is either impossible or will take so long to achieve that the model will never be finished! The tail surfaces which you show us here are very impressive indeed - as near to perfection as anyone will ever get. One good thing is that the more you do the fewer errors you tend to make so believe it or not, things might speed up a bit in future.
This is going to be a real monster when finished, so perhaps taking your time might not be a bad idea after all as it will give you time to clear the garage to store it when finished!!!
Stephen.
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Thank you Richie, Alexis, Rick, Manni and Stephen for your kind and encouraging comments.
Great to see you back Willem, in fine form too. The tailplane looks very impressive and precise. We're both on a steep learning curve with scratch building but will clamber our way up in the end.
What you are doing does not in any way look like messing around to me. I'm quite intimidated in fact!
Richie
It IS a steep learning curve indeed Richie. Because this is my first scratch build, I thought it would be smart to start with something simple. Well, there is nothing simple about this section, but I hope my skills are improving, and I learn a lot of the “hidden” features of this aircraft.
Hi Willem ,
The tail parts are looking really good , rudders are super ! I still wonder on where you are going to display this beast when completed :o
Alexis
Well, so am I Alexis! ;)
Hi Willem ,
The tail parts are looking really good , rudders are super ! I still wonder on where you are going to display this beast when completed :o
Alexis
I agree completely with Alexis! Looking fantastic!
RAGIII
Thank you Rick. There is a lot to be learned from your stamina when it comes to setbacks, and I’ve had some of my own.
Slowgress but progress. I am so excited how it will turn out. Great work up to now.
Bye Manni
I got a little more tempo into this build now I feel I’m on the right track.
One of the things we all do in scratch building (long after we have done quite a lot), is look back at what we have recently done and decide that it is not good enough! However there comes a stage when we have to recognise that perfection is either impossible or will take so long to achieve that the model will never be finished! The tail surfaces which you show us here are very impressive indeed - as near to perfection as anyone will ever get. One good thing is that the more you do the fewer errors you tend to make so believe it or not, things might speed up a bit in future.
This is going to be a real monster when finished, so perhaps taking your time might not be a bad idea after all as it will give you time to clear the garage to store it when finished!!!
Stephen.
You are right Stephen. I tend to dwell on miniscule details and imperfections that (probably) no one will notice in the end. But I always feel I can to better. Right now I have more scrap styrene than finished parts! But I see it as an adventurous journey and a valuable learning process. I’ve learned a lot about tools, techniques and materials, and as a reward I now I finally have something descent to show to you guys and galls.
Scratch building is fun!
Yesterday I made good progress. The jig I made turned out to be very useful. The strips are on nicely aligned and I’m quite happy with the results. So now I have 4 sets of fins and rudders. Today I’ll trim the excess styrene, do a little cleaning up and then it’s off to the spray booth for priming.
(https://i.postimg.cc/X7qmwRHf/070.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7YRcXKdp/071.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wjsrrhd3/072.jpg)
I’ll be back.
Willem
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Excellent work Willem, your jig worked perfectly. Those strips are perfectly spaced. I am very inspired by this update, keep up the great work!
Richie
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Outstanding results. Your jig worked perfectly!
RAGIII
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I agree with the others - excellent progress and results. You did not choose an easy subject for your first scratchbuild! In the end, you will be lightyears ahead of where you were at the beginning. Having the control horns custom made is over the top!
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What a super set of tail surfaces. Yes there is much to learn in scratch building, but most of the time it is straightforward, just time consuming. You are an excellent student: you learn quickly and well.
I will be waiting for when you come back....
Stephen.
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Thanks Ken and Stephen for the kind words. Yes, it’s not an easy subject, but I like a challenge…
I trimmed the excess and faired the strips towards the trailing and leading edge.
To get this far I used Tamiya super thin glue, Vallejo plastic putty, 240, 600 and 1200 grain sanding paper and Tamiya polishing paste.
Before putting on the primer, all the parts were blown free of dust (with compressor air) and cleaned with 97% alcohol.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Rhq11Vy6/073.jpg)
This is how they look after a first layer of primer. As expected, they need a little touching up and a little more fairing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/x87v6VVs/074.jpg)
I used Mr. Surfacer 500 from a rattle can, and although it doesn’t really show on this picture, the result is rather grainy.
The 500 grain I used, did not build up a little "ridge" to make the edges of the ribs a little smoother, but maybe that's because this is only one thin layer. I do have a compressor with a pressure tank and a single action and a double action airbrush, but I haven’t used it yet.
What do you, my fellow modelers, generally use to airbrush primer on, and with what psi?
Any advice is welcome.
Willem
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Looks good Willem, I'm going to try Hycote Filler Primer from the can. It's cheap and meant for the car industry, I read about it in a new scratch building book. Mine just arrived so haven't used it yet.
I have airbrushed Mr Surfacer 1500 with success but nothing thicker yet, I think it was at 25psi but very thinned down with Mr Levelling thinner. I stripped and cleaned my airbrush afterwards as a precaution.
Richie
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Thanks Richie.
I have some (::)) scrap styrene in my box. I'll do some testing.
And afterwards clean my airbrush REAL good.
Willem
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I'm calling it quits for today. Knocked over my Tamiya extra thin glue.
(https://i.postimg.cc/N09YzgBH/075.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QdnhmBGD/076.jpg)
Saved the upper stabilizer with a quick snatch. It got some glue on it, but luckily there is no deforming or melting.
The only losses are a strip of styrene and the cutting mat. The top layer dissolved in seconds. I have a few in stock so no worries there.
It could have ended worse.
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Really nice work on the rudders !
Alexis
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I am Happy to see that No Major harm was done by the glue spill!
RAGIII
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At least it wasn't superglue and no real damage done. The modelling gods obviously appreciate your hard work as much as we do!
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Glad the damage was very limited. When I last performed that trick it went over my desk - and I just managed to stop it from attacking the surface. Better luck next time.
Stephen.
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This build gets better with every update - keep them coming!
And yes, a flood wave of Extra thin glue on my bench stopped luckily only some mm in front of my Checkerboard painted wings of the Bristol Fighter! After that experience I try to keep finished parts away from the bench (in two "IKEA KVISSLE letter tray").
Cheers,
Frank
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Thanks Alexis, Rick, Richie, Stephen and Frank for looking in.
After cleaning up, a little filling, sanding and polishing, I put on a second layer of primer.
I checked every nook and cranny and then put on the first thin layer of the good old PC10 yesterday. This morning the second layer went on and I must admit the result is better than I had hoped for.
I decided to install the control horns after all, to avoid damaging the vulnerable paint job later on. The rudders and fins will be carefully stored now for later assembly.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0NqydHnC/078.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpBGB87T/077.jpg)
…and on to the stabilizers…
I’ll be back
Willem
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Well that looks fantastic Willem, some real progress now. This is going to be a very handsome model. Had to click links to see the pictures, did you try to embed the photos into the post?
Richie
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Thanks Richie. It took me long enough. (I started with the rudders a year ago and learned a lot on the way)
I corrected a mistake I made in the HTML codes. Does it work o.k. now?
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That is some very fine work on the rudders Willem :)
Alexis
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If the rest of the parts for the model turn out half as good as the fins/rudders, you are going to have a stunning model: and not just because of its size!
Stephen.
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Excellent work on rudders, looking better then injection moulded.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Outstanding work. The rudders look fantastic all dressed up with paint!
RAGIII
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Thank you Rick, Alexis, Stephen and Guieppe for your kind words. They are much appreciated.
While the primer and PC10 were drying, I did a little more work on the rest of the tailplane.
The upper stabilizer is well on the way. I used very thin but very strong double-sided tape to stick the skin to the balsa core on both sides. I applied a 1mm half round styrene profile on the leading edge for a sleek finish.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rwQfMpbK/080.jpg)
The tips are ready to be faired and tapered, and then the rib-strips are next.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SKRDshFV/079.jpg)
After that, the location points for the struts, rudder pivots, fin brackets and elevator control cables will be made and the rib-strips applied.
I will also make a new jig for the upper and lower stabilizers (similar to that for the rudder and fin) to get the rib-strips aligned.
Then it will be sanded, polished and primed for the first time.
I made a little jig to help me get the hinges and hinge-slots for the elevators evenly spaced and aligned and a few templates to make sure the rounding and the tapering of all the tips are the same.
I prefabricated some of the parts I need for the elevators and lower stabilizer shortly. The parts that are on the inside are not shown here, but the build-up will be similar to that of the fins and rudders.
(https://i.postimg.cc/g074LTGp/081.jpg)
I'll be back.
Willem
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That is some nice progress Willem ! :)
Alexis
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Meticulous work Willem, you really are on good form with this now!
Richie
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So much awesome work going into this, thumbs Up!!!
Kent
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Thanks Alexis, Richie and Kent for your encouraging words.
@ Richie (Bristol Scout C 1/32 First scratch build attempt)
Those struts look awesome Richie!
Willem
Many thanks Willem, sorry I missed this post before. How's your build going? Loved your last few updates!
Thanks for your kind words Richie.
Well, after posting the pics of the painted fins and rudders, I started doubting about the ribs. The camera is unforgiving, and I wonder if the ribs are too pronounced. Should I sand them down a little more?
Comments are welcome.
Rib tape
I considered applying rib tape to all the flying surfaces, but I decided against it. I have some good pictures of how it looked and I did some tests with a riveter tool on 0.25 mm styrene and stiff, paper. The result in both cases were disappointing. (top: paper, bottom: styrene.)
(https://i.postimg.cc/d39m3LHL/086.jpg)
I looked on the internet for rib tape decals, but couldn’t find anything suitable. And even if I would it would be very costly, because there are so many…
So, I’ll take a 'poetic license' as Mike calls it, and leave them off.
The upper stabilizer:
The trailing edge supports the 6 female hinges for the elevators, 2 cabane struts , the pivot points for the 4 rudders and 4 of the fin brackets. The spar near the leading edge supports 4 interplane struts and the other 2 cabane struts. On top are 4 guides for the elevator control cables. The four other fin brackets are mounted between the leading edge and spar.
Here are some pictures of how it looks now and the jig I made, before the ribs are applied. I will finish the two elevators first, so I can align them with the stabilizer. I also have to figure out the how to make the rigging points at this stage.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wx5k0Gqg/084.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTt3SNNZ/082.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hkn4WWQk/083.jpg)
The elevators:
The leading edge of each elevator supports 3 hinges and 2 control horns. The middle spar has the 6 connection points for the control cables.
Here’s a layout of the parts I need for each of the four elevators.
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2byqykM/085.jpg)
The next couple of day I don't have much time to work on the tailplane. I have been assigned to garden duty. The weeds are threatening to block our way out of the house and the garden is starting to look like the Amazonian rainforest...but,
I'll be back.
Willem
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Thanks for the report on the rib tape attempt. We can all learn something from the unsuccessful attempts as well as the successful ones.
Your build is coming along very nicely. I'll predict that it will be a superb model when finished.
Are the tips of the upper stabilizer made from styrene?
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Are the tips of the upper stabilizer made from styrene?
Thanks for the kind comment Ken.
Yes, the tips are made from layered styrene:
(https://i.postimg.cc/x12yJVMH/087.jpg)
These are the parts that I dislike making the most. They have to fit snug and straight, and it takes a lot of sanding, shaving and polishing and tapering, and I need to make 4 for the stabilizers and 8 more smaller ones for the elevators...
Willem
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Great update with more careful planning, I found rib tapes to be a major headache too. I've been trying to add them using paint but the results are a little sketchy. I found this fantastic method on a modeller's website. I won't be trying it this time but maybe on another project. It is well worth having a look around his site, his skills are other worldly!
https://www.spitfireinmyworkshop.net/technique.php?id=9&title=fabric-stringing-and-stitching
Keep at it Willem, you're work is looking incredibly refined, I'm really enjoying scrambling up the learning curve together. :)
Richie
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Aviattic sells three types of 1/32nd scale photoetch rib tapes.
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Thanks for that Berman, but for the complete model I would need a little more than 19 feet.
And about 19 years to apply them. ;D
Willem
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Thanks for the link Richie, that's a great and educational site.
Not only the part about the rib-stiching adventure, but the whole "Techniques" section!
Willem
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Thought you might enjoy it Willem, he individually put over 60 thousand miniature rivets into a perfect nut and bolt Spitfire build, mad but brilliant! :)
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Outstanding progress! You and Richie are getting better with each update!
RAGIII
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Agree with Rick :)
Alexis
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Thanks Richie, Berman, Rick and Alexis for the kind words. You all keep me motivated to carry on.
Here are a few pics of the top stabilizer and its elevators with the ribs applied. The new jig helped to allign the ribs properly. Before I clean them up, I'm going to work on the lower stabilizers and elevators first.
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0KsF4W1/088.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MGbWpV4Y/089.jpg)
I'll be back
Willem
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Looking really good with those ribs Willem , nice clean work so far big thumbs up ! :)
Alexis
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Excellent work on the rib tapes!
RAGIII
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Very neat work again Willem, I'm enjoying learning from the precision you bring to the work.
Richie
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The jig that you have made looks really useful - what a good idea. The end product looks as good as any kit part too - best of luck with the continuation of this project. So many good ideas here.
Stephen.
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Thanks Alexis, Rick, Richie and Stephen for looking in and the encouraging words.
Yes, the jig worked like a charm, all the ribs are aligned neatly. I will be using it again for the lower stabilizers and elevators.
To be honest, I'll be glad when the parts for the tailplane are finished, I've been working on them for soooo long now....
Willem
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Hello Willem - for some reason I have not seen this thread and have just come across it. I'm amazed at the research and scratchbuilding involved here. Keep up this amazing work on your project and you'll have such a unique and well built replica at the end. I admire the work you've done here immensely.
Cheers,
Gary
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Hi Willem, I hope you are well and the build continues is good style. I saw this in a museum yesterday and thought of your project:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51280527003_9ab24c38b3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m8u76i)_V5A7511 (https://flic.kr/p/2m8u76i) by Richard Williams (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187004837@N07/), on Flickr
t doesn't look much but it is a wing spar from a HP V/1500, the aircraft must have been a real giant because the spar was like a railway sleeper!
best wishes
Richie
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@ Gary:
Thank you for your positive comments. I am a (silent) admirer of your exceptional detailing and weathering skills and I think your Holt tractor and Morse gun diorama are second to none.
@ Richie:
Thank you for posting this picture. This is very interesting, because it shows lots of screws in a fixed pattern. This confirms that it is not solid, but hollow.
"With the double aim of saving weight and avoiding the use of long lengths of spruce, all the longerons and struts, except in the extreme nose of the fuselage, were made from hollow spars of circular or streamline section, rolled up from laminated spruce in the manner patented by the Southampton yacht builder McGruer."
(Source: C. H. Barnes - "Handley Page aircraft since 1907”)
And yes, this was a big beast with a wingspan of 126 ft. The only bigger WWI aircraft was the Staaken with a wingspan of 138 ft 5 in.
I am waiting for some AA brass I ordered to do some testing on the lower stabilizers to attach them to the actual fuselage.
The work on the flying surfaces of the tailplane is tedious to say the least, but it is nearing completion (no pics yet) and I will be glad when I have finished them. Several times I have been at the point of picking up a hammer and, well you get the idea...
I have been working on them for so long now, that I can hardly wait to start on an other segment of the model.
The fuselage will be next, and I'm taking a look at the cockpit area. I'm making sketches of a few cross sections and I'm trying to figure out the form, so I can plan the size of the instrument panel, which carried a lot of dials and switches.
BTW, I've been keeping record of the number of parts (Styrene sheet, strips, balsa and brass) used in this build so far.
With all 15 surfaces (4 fins, 4 rudder, 3 stabilizers and 4 elevators) including hardware completed, the counter is at 511. And twice as much in the scrap box. ;)
My pace will even slow down more the next couple of weeks, with family visiting from Switzerland, but,
I'll be back.
Willem
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Keep away from the hammer Willem! You are doing a brilliant job on this build and you love modelling so a lot of time spent doing it is time well spent. For my next project I am going to follow tour example and try to make each piece as a perfect kit in its own right.
There will be plenty of uses for odds and ends of scrap styrene (I hope) so a box full of them will not truly be waste. Loving this project!
Richie
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The family will be going home to Switzerland tomorrow.
I am eager to get back to the workbench.
There were times that I was a little fed up with the model, but now I can't wait to pick up where I left.
My hands are itching!
Willem
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Glad you're excited by the build still Willem and am very much looking forward to seeing the next update. I totally understand how you can get fed up at times. I have found that my first scratch build involves a lot of groping around in the darkness for solutions and many attempts to make each part.
Richie
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A little update:
The jig I used to align the hinges of the stabilizers and the elevators and the templates for the rounding and tapering of the wingtips:
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fBLvSD7/098.jpg)
The inside of the lower stabilizers with the balsa core and the two square brass tubes for the connection to the fuselage. The tips are in place but not yet rounded and tapered. Parallel to the balsa core is a hardwood strip that will support the struts. To secure the balsa core to the styrene sheet, I used the same double-sided tape as for the upper stabilizer:
(https://i.postimg.cc/1R8Lqmg7/094.jpg)
The closed up stabilizers before cleaning up:
(https://i.postimg.cc/hjj1NGFk/093.jpg)
Scraping to get the taper:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y9ZD3F4n/101.jpg)
The produce of a few hours off delicate scraping:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vk8TpXK2/099.jpg)
The by-produce of a few hours of delicate scraping:
(https://i.postimg.cc/9MrNZbfw/100.jpg)
The filled and sanded result, ready to apply the ribs:
(https://i.postimg.cc/8CkYPNQH/103.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zfdcy6q1/104.jpg)
This is one of the control horns for the elevators:
(https://i.postimg.cc/DfRRQ9Lv/102.jpg)
I’ll be back
Willem
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Nice work Willem :)
Alexis
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Lovely, neat work Willem. You are a very methodical worker!
Richie
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You may not be setting any speed records on your build but you are doing Amazing Quality Work!
RAGIII
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Very methodical and accurate work Willem. The balsa cores will be necessary on a structure as large as the one you are making. The products of hours of scraping are minor at the moment: wait until you have finished the project and see the size of the pile then...!
Stephen.
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Thank you Alexis, Richie, Rick and Stephen for your kind words. It's more than I deserve.
I know, I'm a slow builder. Time to work on the model is limited, and sometimes I have to move my stuff from the kitchen table because it needs to be used as a ehmm... well, a kitchen table.
I managed to get the rib-strips on the lower stabilizers and elevators:
(https://i.postimg.cc/zB4w6hR7/20210801-152939.jpg)
They need a little cleaning up before I can prime them.
Next will be the locating holes for the control horns, rudder pivots points, fin brackets and struts.
Willem
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Very nice and careful work!
Cheers,
Frank
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Willem you definitely deserve the kind words, the care and time you take is well worth it. Every stage has been beautifully executed so far.
Richie
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The ribs are looking great! Like the others have said your careful slow work is paying off!
RAGIII
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:) :) :)
Sorry Willem , that's all I got at the moment :)
Alexis
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You may be slow Willem, but remember Rome was not built in a day either. This is a simply gigantic project that you have taken on, and on the kitchen table, so it is all the more remarkable that your work is so precise and accurate.
Stephen.
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Thanks guys and gal ;)
I am fully aware that I'm not the only one who has to have patience...
I have nothing decent to show yet, but al the ribs on the flying surfaces are applied and I am sanding them down now. It's tedious and time-consuming, but it will be worthwhile I hope.
In the meantime I'm figuring out a way to make brass sockets for the interplane and cabane struts, with attachment points for the rigging. On the original the main rigging was made of steel rod, not wire. I hope to simulate that with AA brass micro rod.
Thanks for keeping me in good spirits everyone!
Willem
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Keep sanding away Willem, it will definitely be worth it in the end.
Rather than brass rod you might consider nickel silver rod which wouldn't need painting. I know you can get it in 0.2mm diameter. There may be finer available if needed.
Richie
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Thank you all my dear friends for your kind words in my "Absence"-post.
Our moods are good and we are picking up where we left as much as we can.
I've been following you builds closely and true gems are created non-stop. My hands are itching to get going again too. Behind the scenes I'm working on the on the V/1500. Looking back I realize I started with the part I should finish with. As I said before, there is a lot to look into, both in detailing and in structural rigidity, but I am getting great help form David Hall (Jaysena). He is doing a great job with drawings.
So, mainly investigating and drawing now, and as soon as have some real modeling progress to show, I'll show it to you all.
In the meantime, here are some of the drawings David made for me.
I'll be back.
Willem
(https://i.postimg.cc/qMS5J8QY/Wings1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTNPFB44/Fuselage-ISO-2-1.png)
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Oooh, this is looking exciting!
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Will the wings fold ?
If not , WOW !
Alexis
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I'm thinking of making one wing in the folded position, to show the mechanism. David and I have made some drawings for that part also.
Willem
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Would save of display area :)
Alexis
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Hi! What kind of styrene glue? Model? I have it coming in waves after gluing styrene...
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I have it coming in waves after gluing styrene...
;D
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My those drawings look very impressive. The wings will look even more impressive when they have been made!
Stephen.
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I'm thinking of making one wing in the folded position, to show the mechanism. David and I have made some drawings for that part also.
Willem
I recently build a 1/72 Grumman Wildcat with one wing folded - a totally different beast of course - and that sounds like a great course of action.
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This build log has been on pause for quite a while for reasons explained here:
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12587.0
Fortunately, thing are getting a little back to normal. Her progress is slow, but promising, and the dining table / workbench is back again.
I have been quietly working in the background on several other segments of the aircraft, of which I included some photographs.
Tailplane and struts
The stabilizers and elevators need a little more work before they can be primed.
The rudders and fins are almost finished. The surfaces are sanded down again. There is a lot of single-colour surface to cover later on the whole aircraft and my fear from the start was that the overall result may look dull and monotonous.
So I decided to experiment a little. The need some more layers of colors, which I will try to mix in slightly different shades to make it look more interesting. (Thank you Gary for your inspiration). Also, the hardware for the struts and the rigging have to be installed. The stabilizers and elevators wille receive the same treatment.
The struts are made from bamboo snack sticks.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTBv0pYL/Tailplane-stabilizers-and-elevators.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/x84KNtmD/Tailplane-fins-and-rudder.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/90MdfvrY/Tailplane-struts.jpg)
Propellers
Two member of this forum kindly donated unused propellers from WNW kits to make the 4 bladed variant, but ultimately I decides to give it a go with wood veneer I made two sets of the four propellers, because I know I will mess them up at some point. I have some serious carving to do now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/658Vxxs9/Propellers.jpg)
Fabric lacing
I did some testing here too in scrap styrene, cotton thread and 0.2 mm copper wire. I taped my precision ruler to the styrene strips, and punched the holes directly through the holes of the ruler. That way the holes are neatly aligned. The holes were made with a steel needle in a pin vice with a good grip.
I flattened the wire by covering the laces with a scrap strip of styrene and just hammered the lacings flat.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JzJbt34v/Fabric-lacing-copper-front.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MZP0LKFP/Fabric-lacing-copper-back.jpg)
Cockpit
The cockpit is literally crammed with gauges, meters, tumbler switches, pushbuttons levers and more.
I got the shape right, but I think I will follow the WNW assembly method.
But that’s not all:
On the starboard wall of the cockpit was a group of eight levers on a common vertical axis. The upper four were the mixture controls, and the lower four were on-off controls for the petrol supply to the engines. The oil-pressure gauges and the revolution counters for each pair of engines were mounted on the inboard side of each forward engine, where they were supposed to be visible to the pilot; consequently there were few instruments in the cockpit. The airspeed indicator and altimeter were duplicated in the bow gunner’s cockpit [and under the pilot’s seat], and the bombsight was mounted externally on the nose. And then there are the control column with cables for the rudders, elevators and ailerons.
These are all very tiny part, even in 1/32. So I took the liberty of cheating a little and bought the Airscale instrument bezels and decals.
Rib stitching
My rib stitching experiment (see reply #122) failed miserably, but I have another idea or two. I’m not sure if they will work, but I hope to show some results soon.
Engines
I was fortunate enough to buy 4 Wingnut Wings sprues with the Rolls-Royce Eagle VIII engines before they went out of business. I am very glad with those, because the engines on the V/1500 had no cowls. But figuring out all the fuel-, oil- and water plumping is challenging enough. And then there is still the cables and wires to and from the carburetors, radiator shutters etc. etc..
That’s all for now folks, but,
I’ll be back
Willem
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Truly wonderful to see you back Willem, both because it means that family life is improving and because you are doing sterling things with this model.
The tail surfaces look good as does the pres-hading. I am also very interested in your other ideas, especially the lacing. I suggest that carving the propellors will not be as difficult as you imagine - see my current build thread for ideas for 4 blade props.
Looking forward to more updates in future.
Stephen.
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Hello Willem
Re: stitches.
The only thing I can think of is to cut a huge amount of thin copper lengths and glue them on. Tedious and time consuming but trying different methods in vain may take longer. I would imagine you have already thought of this, making a special tool or technique may speed up this process.
Alan.
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Have you seen these Archer fine transfers? I’ve used the 1/72 louvres with wonderful results.
http://www.archertransfers.com/AR88164.html
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@ Stephen,
I already bookmarked your thread ;)
@ Alan,
I hadn't thought of that. Copper and brass are firmer and stiffer that styrene and card. I'm going to try that!
@ Tim,
Yes, i know these, but I would need a hell of a lot of them. Meanwhile, I'm still not sure what the ribstitches precisely looked like. The RAF museum holds part of the upper wing of a O/400 and of the tailplane of a V/1500, but the photographs are too grainy to discern what tape or stitches were used. And so far I have been unable to find any old photographs on which the rib stitching can be seen clearly.
Willem
(https://i.postimg.cc/pd5Dmp7z/Upper_wing_Handley_Page_O-400_(RAF_museum)_01.jpg)
Section of the upper wing of a HP O/400 (RAF museum)
(Note how small the roundel is compared to the size of the wing section)
(https://i.postimg.cc/6pWhHWPG/V-1500.jpg)
Section of the tailplane of a HP V/1500 (RAF museum)
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So nice to hear that your wife is starting to recover Willem, and also great to see you back at work on this interesting project; excellent news both! This is a spectacular project; the sheer size and the super detail you are producing make it truly unique and I am really enjoying following your progress.
Cheers,
Lance
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Thank you for the kind and encouraging words Lance, they are very much appreciated.
Although my time to work on it is limited, I have every intention of bringing this project to a good end.
Willem
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This really is an amazing build. I am learning so much crawling back over the pages. Well done and keep at it!
Cheers,
BC
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Hi Willem,
So glad to hear that your wife is recovering, it must have been a very stressful year. Your progress is meticulous as always. All those little brass parts and stabilisers look incredibly precise. I have a feeling this will be one of my all time favourite builds!
Richie
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Thanks for that Brad, I hope to show something that should resemble a steering column shortly. Soldering the tiny brass parts is hard.
Good to hear from you again Richie! It's a lot of trial and error, but I am inspired by Bertl (Umlaufmotor) who keeps on trying until he gets it right. It only takes me much more time to get it the way I want though ;)
Willem
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My pace is slow, but I'm making progress. I am working for days a week now, (two days from home and two days from the office) instead of five, which means I have a four-day weekend every two weeks.
The steering wheel is 24” in diameter (same as a bicycle wheel!) and in the center there is a pulley for the ailerons. The wheel is made from 1mm brass tube, formed around a drill bit. The pulley consists of three parts: two 0.3mm brass tube rings, also formed around a drill bit and then flattened in the vice. In between these flattened rings is a third ring, also of 0.3 mm brass tube. I superglued these together, because they are too fragile to solder. Also I made the hub that fits in the pulley.
The spokes are made from copper⁹ sheet, which is also glued to the brass. They are not as sleek as the spokes in the original, but after six attempts and five fails, I decided to keep this one.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wz6SCt5S/HP-V-1500-cockpit-03a.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSyx0Wn0)
The windings are made from 0.5 mm Plusmodel lead wire. I was afraid that it would break or disform easily because the lead is so soft, but it worked out well, no problems there.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zD7Fjfq0/01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PNLDfTpw)
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2rN6GDR/02.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DmtX8HLY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RVb1kb6t/03.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fwN6BKR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8zJdNBM0/04.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXx91md4)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sX99bj7f/05.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bbm5Qmmd/06.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HxC9ScJP/07.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hvDbBk1L/08.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/y8MmdgTY/09.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zykb2fM9)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KYtngG97/10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSLSx8P5)
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3j0GBKB/11.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8Y8sVJp)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hjrTpCRf/12.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wy11BQvp)
Next is the actual column, with two more (much smaller) pulleys and the rudder pedals.
I'll be back.
Willem
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Ah Willem, that is brilliantly clever, the pulley wheel especially. I'm definitely taking notes of that method!
The wheel spokes look perfectly good to me, and winding the lead wire round wheel is another nice touch carried out with immaculate precision. It doesn't matter how slow the progress, it looks like you are enjoying the project and every piece you have made so far is another perfect step towards the finished model. This is such an enjoyable build to follow!
Richie
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What is there to criticise about the wheel? That is extraordinarily good, especially as the inner wheel is so small. The spokes look very good indeed - in fact I think that is much better than you would have found in a kit.
Stephen.
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Magic work Willem! How neat to see the raw material transformed into small replicas of the original. Brilliant!
It doesn't matter how slow the progress, it looks like you are enjoying the project and every piece you have made so far is another perfect step towards the finished model.
Hear hear!
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Fantastic update! I agree with all the above comments!
/Fredrik
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Magic work Willem! How neat to see the raw material transformed into small replicas of the original. Brilliant!
It doesn't matter how slow the progress, it looks like you are enjoying the project and every piece you have made so far is another perfect step towards the finished model.
Hear hear!
and another Hear 8)
RAGIII
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Thanks for the compliments gentlemen!
I've since done some work on the cockpit floor, but time is limited due to work and preparations for the holidays with family coming over.
It will take a few weeks, but...
I'll be back.
Willem
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Be back when you're ready Willem and not a second before. We all love what you are achieving here and you must never rush anything to post here. We all want to see the best of your magnificent best craftsmanship
Richie
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I can only echo what Richie said. Your updates are always worth the wait and there's no need to rush on our account!
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Just... WOW incredible build Willem.
Cheers: Kent
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Amazing work so far! - that steering wheel is fantastic
Regards
Dave
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Thanks for the kind comments Richie, Zac, Kent and Dave.
Work on the cockpit is in progress and there will be pictures in a couple of days.
I wish everyone a healthy, productive, happy and better New Year!
Cheers,
Willem
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I had some wood left from a boatbuilding project (don’t ask). These were meant for deck planking, but with a little fantasy and adjusting they can be used for the slats of the cockpit floor.
The seams are prescribed and so it is easy to cut very straight slats, single or doubled. They are of the right size and scale. Since the actual floor was made of wood, I thought I might give it a try and I am very happy with the results. I used simple PVA wood glue. The bottom is a little warped because in same places I used the glue a little too liberally, but that can be fixed easily.
The last slats are glued on and held down between two glass plates with weights on them. I will leave it to dry for at least 24 hours. After that I will trim off the excess wood.
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTMw3mkH/Cockpit-floor-00.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/941g7Fv8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hPtkFW8f/Cockpit-floor-01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Rq2sfYDB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7Kfmssw/Cockpit-floor-03.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXmtRztY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qqk9MW9D/Cockpit-floor-03a.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TL4ktN2n)
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1CL6Wkt/Cockpit-floor-04.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mn7FzYt8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Jn3f8RdB/Cockpit-floor-05.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9t4kZDX)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7PVFQY2F/Cockpit-floor-06.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t7svsbDk)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1XJbgJSm/Cockpit-floor-07.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cttF2762)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8zh4cQVM/Cockpit-floor-08.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1jL4rMj)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4xCwX4jX/Cockpit-floor-09.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ppZKZv2S)
My ToDo list for the coming weeks:
- building up of the vertical construction with the struts, the brace wires and the plywood sides.
- mapping out he position of the steering column, and the elevator and rudder controls, that protrude through the bottom and the pilot’s seat.
In the meantime I am also working on all the gauges, meters, tumbler switch boxes, pushbuttons and engine control levers that have to find a place in the crammed cockpit on the instrument panel and the sides.
I’ll be back.
Willem
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Now that was an update well worth waiting for! The use of wood from your boat project will really elevate this build to a much higher level. It must have been very satisfying to make the floor decking, it looks beautifully precise and you will soon have the very slight warp cured.
Happy new year!
Richie
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Where did you acquire your metal ruler? I need that!
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Where did you acquire your metal ruler? I need that!
PM sent
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Beautiful wood work! Looks really neat!
/Fredrik
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Really Impressive work! That floor decking looks awesome! I am continuing to be Gobsmacked!
RAGIII
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Thank you Fredik and Rick for your encouraging words :)
It was time consuming but worth the trouble.
I am now working on a mockup of the cockpit to determine where everything goes, because I don't want to risk damaging anything I've made sofar.
An update will follow (after) this weekend.
Willem
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I have come to the conclusion that there is no substitute for wood on a model. The planking looks the part in every way - the sharpness of the cockpit flooring is extremely good.
Best of luck with the cockpit mock-up: time consuming I am sure, but time saving in the end!
Stephen.
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Impressive work on your wooden decking, Willem
Regards
Dave
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Thank you for the encouraging words Stephen and Dave :)
Here’s a small update.
I thought the warped cockpit floor would be an easy fix, but it wasn’t. I tried steaming, bending, heating, soaking, wetting and cling-wrapping it to a glass jar, but every next attempt turned out worse than the previous. It is now propeller-shaped with a build-in sinus wave.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HWt2TCLJ/Warped_cockpit_floor_04.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V5dMFpn1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wv3vCgyK/20230203_111440.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PpsTZGQK)
So, I made a second version, only this time I used thick CA glue.
Because this glue dries faster than PVA, and I didn’t have to wait so long before applying the next layer, it took less time to make. This one is as straight as an arrow. It has to have some colour and I had 5 coulors to choose from.
After a bit of experimenting I used Admiralty Stains Mahogany, applied with an almost dry cloth.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qqsdY5LV/20230128_120915.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4HxMHwqB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L8NPWzmh/20230129_121712-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pm5yh5ht)
Here are the first and second attempt of the cockpit floor decking. Practice makes (almost) perfect.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wBjTNgkt/20230205_144235.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5XDVdcT1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/85q1xWgW/20230205_145037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TLJMDKwY)
I will lay it aside for now and continue with the mockup.. Yes, it is time consuming Stephen, but I soon found out it is worth the trouble
I tried to bend a 4x4 mm strip of wood into a rim, but after the sixth failed attempt I decided to make it from laminated strips of wood. That turned out very well. I glued it to a piece of ply that represents the forward section of the cockpit floor to have a base to start with the vertical struts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/m244MTLb/20221204-135018.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vD0CwFxj)
(https://i.postimg.cc/15RG0pnC/20230128_111405.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QVPKhKq1)
The first mistake and proof that making a mockup first was a good idea…
The vertical struts should be at a 90 degree angle with the top of the cockpit, not the floor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fT2f0jmD/Mockup_cockpit_05.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cr3np3Fb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/D07P1xxy/20230114_132218.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ph1jHJNg)
To get the cockpit sides into the right shape, I used an electric plank bender. I’m not sure this will work, because it is now in one piece, instead of two halves, it makes detailing the interior harder. On the other hand, I now have a nicely rounded nose that doesn’t need any fixing. We’ll see.
In the background is the first failed attempt. I used boiling water and a glass jar to shape it, but that didn’t work. In the foreground is a spare one. You just never know.
The white styrene is the template. The markings are the positions for the vertical struts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqF42rXM/20230129_121413.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vcQ83sFN)
(https://i.postimg.cc/MG9H3vGb/20230203_105854.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yD3drmd)
So, this is where I am now. I will continue with the mockup and work on the struts and the control column with the steering wheel, elevator control cable pulleys, and rudder bar. After that, the seat and the instruments.
Thanks for looking
Willem
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I am blown away with your work! Most impressive display of talent. Eagerly awaiting the next installment!
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Some superb modelling skills and ideas being demonstrated here Willem. Your bending and glueing seem to have paid off eventually. Progress is being made!
Stephen.
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Willem, you have really amazed me with your patience, skill and determination. There are so many techniques on show here, I'm learning every time you post an update. The mock up is a great idea and will save you a lot of time in the end. I'm looking forward to more modelling brilliance from your kitchen table!
Richie
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Thank you Tim Stephen and Richie. I really think you are giving me more credit than I deserve.
To be honest, half of the time I haven’t got a clue what I am doing. If a method doesn’t work, I try something else. Sometimes I step away from my workspace and sit somewhere else with just my notepad and try to visualize things. And looking for information on the net of course.
I used the wood because the dimensions were right and I don’t have styrene in the right sizes. On top of that I didn’t want to risk ruining it all with a sloppy woodgrain paint job. So the choice to use wood was actually made because it was easier (for me) than making this all from styrene.
So I know this isn’t a scratch build it its strict sense, and I will be using four WNW engine sprues for the Rolls-Royce Eagle VIII engines. But my aim is build a model of the V1500 because there is not kit available. Of course there isn’t I hear you think. Who in his right mind will build an aircraft model with a 120cm wing span. I have been asked where and how I will display this beast. I have no idea.
The other day the balsa planks for the wings arrived. They measure 100 x 10 x 0,5 cm. I ordered a pack of 10 pieces. I think I will need 4 for the V/1500, and the other 6 I can use for the 1/32 Zeppelin Staaken scratch build.
Nah, just kidding.
I also have wooden curtain rings that will serve as a form for the wheels. I intend to make a simple vac forming machine for that. There are some nice DIY instructions for the net on that.
The rib tape is an ongoing experiment too. I have seen modelers that used very small soldering balls to create rivets on fuselages and wings. Now I am experimenting with different sorts of paper to the simulation of the rib tape. It needs to be thin enough to show the stitches (soldering balls) but firm enough to cut into strips that have the same width over the whole length (the chord is about 12 cm).
So a lot of time is also spent on research, redrawing and scaling the factory drawings (The sheets were so large that I couldn’t keep them flat on the table, so the photographs are distorted), trying out different techniques and materials and then building everything by trial and error.
More on all that later.
Willem
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This looks wonderful, like a huge amount of work.
Very nice!
Andreas
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Willem,
"To be honest, half of the time I haven’t got a clue what I am doing. If a method doesn’t work, I try something else."
That is what scratch building is about in my experience - making it up as you go along to find out that something does/does not work. I regard all scratch building as a prototype - prototypes are built to find out why something does not work!
"Sometimes I step away from my workspace and sit somewhere else with just my notepad and try to visualize things. And looking for information on the net of course."
Stage 2 of scratch building. I can sometimes spend more time thinking while walking/lying in the bath/driving/working outside or indoors than I do making or assembling anything. I have written in my build logs more than once that I have had to rewrite the instructions.... Visualizing things is frequently the best way to solve problems, but so also is being prepared to use materials other than plastic.
Your use of wood is inspirational - I hope that you go ahead with this as it is so much more realistic.
Stephen.
Stephen.
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Thank you Andreas and Stephen.
I'm not sure yet if I will continue to use wood throughout the rest of the build. As I said, the main reason to use wood for the cockpit was that these planks had the right shape and dimension and the fact that they were already scribed made it easier to maintain perfectly spaced gaps between the slats.
Didn't have much time at the bench this weekend to actually build, but I have made some progress making drawings to determine the position of the control column and the pilots seat in the cockpit.
I'll be back.
Willem
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I have spent the last couple of days catching up on all of the great WW1 builds. Your experiments all seem to work out eventually and are moving ever closer to an Aircraft! Well Done!!
RAGIII
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Great work and progress, Willem -
I wish my model work would come out as well as yours making it up as you go .......!!
Regards
Dave
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I have spent the last couple of days catching up on all of the great WW1 builds. Your experiments all seem to work out eventually and are moving ever closer to an Aircraft! Well Done!!
RAGIII
Thanks Rick, good to have you back!
Any new WWI projects in the foreseeable future?
Great work and progress, Willem -
I wish my model work would come out as well as yours making it up as you go .......!!
Regards
Dave
Thanks for your kind words Dave...
Progress is at snails pace, because I don’t have a permanent workspace, limited time, and limited budget. I love every second I spent on modelling though.
Still working on the control column which is quite complicated. Hope to show some pics soon.
Cheers
Willem
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Steering column nearing completion.
It’s quite complicated with lots of small parts, some of them moving. All the pulleys are built up from three discs and a rod, and the total amount of parts, once assembled, is 73. Some parts need a little cleaning up, and then it is ready to paint.
I hope to show the completed result soon.
Cheers
Willem
(https://i.postimg.cc/xCYdxJBv/S-column-00.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bYmvgvgn/S-column-01.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BQynWwdQ/S-column-02.jpg)
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Yet more impressive work! Looking amazing. As for your question a while back, I am hoping to receive the CSM Bristol Scout soon and am working on a trade to line up the Roden Strutter 8)
RAGIII
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73 Parts!! That's unbelievable.
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Only one word for that amazing control column....gobsmacked!
(Look it up if you do not already know the expression).
Stephen.
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Your parts production is a brilliant display of incredible precision Willem. No matter how small the details you keep the quality of the very highest standard. Just brilliant!
Richie
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Thank you very much Rick, Alan, Stephen and Richie for your kind words.
@Rick
I have been following your builds of the 1 1/2 Strutter and the Scout as a lurker, and I am very impressed!
@Alan
I re-did some of the parts, but I lost count now…
@Stephen
Yes, I know the expression, and I’d like to return the compliment, especially for your beautiful BE 2a!
@Richie
Having limited bench time and looking at the work one did, is has the advantage of spotting flaws that one would normally overlook or discard, and the disadvantage of wanting to do them again, which is very time-consuming.
As I said, I haven't had much bench time, and although the control column is nowhere near completion, I wanted to show the little progress I have made. it’s mainly replacing styrene parts with brass. It's a lot of work, but it looks better and it's sturdier.
This is the frame that holds the pulleys for the rudder control cables. I am an absolute beginner when it comes to soldering, so it needs some cleaning up. In my defense: these parts are very small, even in 1/32. I made a template in styrene and copied the slots on 0,5 brass sheet:
(https://i.postimg.cc/B6Dr13Sy/S-column-07.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HWMYQGvT/S-column-09.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/GpBwdYZb/S-column-08.jpg)
The column itself is now of brass rod and tube. I found it easier to make from brass than styrene, because it is stronger and I can add more details.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tg7yJ8VQ/S-column-04.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fS271G4/S-column-05.jpg)
I also re-did the pedals for the same reasons:
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNVw9D4y/S-column-11.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L6MHDyGL/S-column-13.jpg)
A few steps closer to the end result:
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgpfvVpd/S-column-14.jpg)
I’m afraid the next update will take a while, but...
I’ll be back
Thanks for looking,
Willem
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You may not do a lot, but what you do is always awesome!
RAGIII
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Your progress on this build is amazing, Willem. Glad I happened to catch the latest work. Just really amazing.
Cheers,
Gary
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You may not do a lot, but what you do is always awesome!
RAGIII
Hear hear, wow!!
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Working in brass is more difficult than styrene but from experience I know that it gives much stronger results. For the first attempt those pullueys are remarkable - very well done indeed. Do remember that solder can be easily filed away if necessary and onlookers do not need to know how you cleaned the parts.... It is the finished item that they will look at.
You may be slow, but your standards are extremely high, and quality work does take time.
Stephen
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Willem - you do beautiful work - I'm very impressed by your brass work. Are you using a soldering iron or a torch?
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Thank you (again) for you kind words Stephen. I have a nice set of very fine needle files and sanding /polishing paper from grit 80 to 10,000, so that won’t be a problem. I just have to careful, because the parts are very delicate
@Dave:
I use a temperature controlled soldering station with the temp set to 375°. I clean up the surfaces with 1500 grit polishing paper and clean it up with 97% alcohol on a tissue. Before I start soldering, I dab al little flux with a fine brush on both surfaces.
Cheers,
Willem
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Hi Willem, how lovely to see an update on this magnificent project. Your first soldering efforts look superb to me, the parts must be incredibly small and any little errors that show in brutal close up photos will be indistinguishable to the naked eye. You may not get to spend much time on the model but what time you have is used to make superb pieces of the very highest quality. This is remarkable workmanship!
Richie
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“. You may not get to spend much time on the model but what time you have is used to make superb pieces of the very highest quality. This is remarkable workmanship!”
Can’t say it any better. Well done!
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Sorry for the late response gentlemen.... :-[
You may not do a lot, but what you do is always awesome!
RAGIII
Hear hear, wow!!
Thanks Rick and Zac,
Yes the pace is slow, and making these parts from scratch is time consuming but enjoyable :)
Your progress on this build is amazing, Willem. Glad I happened to catch the latest work. Just really amazing.
Cheers,
Gary
Thank you Gary,
Well, it's mostly two steps forward, one step back. I managed to destroy the styrene foot pedals while trying to correct them. They were crooked in my opinion, so I will make new ones of brass this weekend. Same goes for the styrene pulleys. I'm afraid they will not survive the heat when I solder the all-brass pedals on...
I am an avid admirer of your work, especially when it comes down to weathering and the color nuances in one colored surfaces. I am thinking of buying this book to get some useful tips and tricks for my project. Does anyone know this?
https://www.zinnfigur.com/out/pictures/master/product/1/553_6220.jpg
And thank you Richie and Tim,
Yes I use my Samsung Note 10, which has an incredible camera. Sometimes a little too good it seems. It sometimes looks like shots taken from a microscope and it shows the tiniest imperfections. It is sometimes hard to ignore and leave the results as they are, because only little of those imperfections can be seen with the naked eye.
Everybody, thanks for looking
Willem
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Still a project that frightens me just due it’s dimensions alone, but also impresses me due to the fantastic work and care you invest.
Andreas
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Thank you for your kind words Andreas, it means a lot to me, especially from someone who's work I admire so much.
And yes, at times it frightens me too. I have absolutely no idea where to put it once it is finished...
But I enjoy every second working on it, planning ahead, trying out different techniques and materials, studying old documents and drawings.
And it's also therapeutic for me. Forgetting the world around me and concentrating on 0.5 square mm fiddling :o
Cheers
Willem
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And it's also therapeutic for me. Forgetting the world around me and concentrating on 0.5 square mm fiddling :o
You summed up all what modelling is about for me, too!
Andreas
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Absolutely, I'm with you both. The Zen of Modeling.
And Willem, your comment about not knowing where you're going to put this great beast when it's done reminds me of my constant attempts to talk myself out of buying a WnW Felixstowe... "I'm pretty sure my wife is going to notice if I start building an addition onto the house"...
Dutch
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Thank you guys!
I have a four-day weekend ahead of me and I hope to finish the steering column in the next couple of days. I know, I promised that before, but time is limited for reasons I have explained here:
https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=12587.0
I've changed somewhat into a "lurker", and although I haven't commented on all the beautiful builds as much as I would like, I am still in awe with everything that is shown by my friends here on our forum!
Cheers,
Willem
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It’s been a while and I’m happy to be able to show some results.
Control column
The control column is assembled, it just needs some cleaning up (soldering point’s need filing and sanding) and then I can put some colors on it. The levers that handle the control cables for the rudders and elevators will be added when the control column is mounted to the cockpit floor. These levers will protrude through the cockpit floor, so that part will have to wait.
In the picture it looks weird because of the angle. This was the only shot where I could get the lighting right.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rmvwSBTp/Control-column-01.jpg)
Cockpit and forward gunners position
This is a complicated section. I have looked at the instruction for the WNW HP O/100, the windsock data file plans and the factory drawings and then made my own working drawings.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L5Q2fM6J/Drawings-01.jpg)
Figuring out the positions of all the different components was time consuming, and I made a styrene mockup to work from. I don’t want to use the wooden floor I made because I’m a afraid I’ll ruin it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sgXCgnFH/Cockpit-mockup-01.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjFdSfrN/Cockpit-mockup-02.jpg)
More later.
Cheers,
Willem
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Wonderful work, Willem -
Love your control column and rudder pedals.
Regards
Dave
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Excellent progress Willem and I like the mock-up idea. Nice work and thanks for sharing your progress!
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Magnificent detail! I’m really looking forward to seeing more of the cockpit area.
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Wonderful work, Willem -
Love your control column and rudder pedals.
Regards
Dave
Thanks Dave. Making the control column took a lot longer than I expected. I ended up replacing the styrene parts, because they would melt with the other soldering work. I CA-ed the pedals to the rods to avoid them ending up as just unrecognizable blobs of solder. It still looks a little crude, but once it is cleaned up and painted it will look a lot better.
Excellent progress Willem and I like the mock-up idea. Nice work and thanks for sharing your progress!
Thank your for the kind comment Zac,
The mock-up gives me room to experiment with the location of all the stuff that needs to go in the cockpit and the gunners position. Only when I am certain that a certain section is right, I'll duplicate it to the wooden floor.
Sometimes it is hard to keep the mojo (I started 3 years ago with this build) but the encouragements of the fellow members keep me going :) And for me it is not a speed contest, but and endurance test ;)
Magnificent detail! I’m really looking forward to seeing more of the cockpit area.
Thank you Tim.
"I’m really looking forward to seeing more of the cockpit area."
So am I ;D
I am getting there step by step, and I have a lot of intricate details to figure out and implement.
Thanks for looking everyone!
Cheers,
Willem
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It may be a long distance project Willem, but it is certainly worthwhile. The cockpit floor is a work of art in itself, but with the controls it will be even better.
Using mock-up parts is the only way to get things right. They do take time but they save a lot of tears!
Keep up the excellent work - this is so interesting to follow.
Stephen.
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Thank you Stephen.
I was able to do a little work this weekend, but I'll wait with posting until I have something substational to show. ;)
Willem
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Coming late to this thread, but I am in awe of what you are achieving here. Keep going!
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Thank you Nigel, I will keep going!
Willem
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Hi all,
Again, some great documents on the HP O/400 and HP V/1500 have surfaced.
A fellow modeler, active on Britmodeller found these at the Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, Virginia in the United States.
Thank you Joshua!
This is primarily a promotional document, advertising the Handley Page O/400 and V/1500 in English, French and Spanish:
(https://i.postimg.cc/YS4rnQTS/Promotional-leaflet.jpg)
Then there is this document with the easy-gong name “GUIDE TO THE ASSMBLY AND ERECTION OF THE HANDLEY PAGE TWIN TRACTOR BIPLANE, TYPE O/400":
(https://i.postimg.cc/dVVtCbBr/Guide.jpg)
And last but not least a folder with miscellaneous report on engine tests with Rolls-Royce, Liberty, and Hispano Souza engines, technical data of the electrical installations and armament (confirming a ventral gun position), and reports on the visits to the William Beardmore facilities in Glasgow and “trips” made in Handley-Page V-1500 serial 4305 from Harland & Wollf, Belfast (some cut short because of weather conditions and minor engine trouble):
(https://i.postimg.cc/Zq1T1Chx/Folder.jpg)
Some of the documents were typed on stationary marked:
Headquarters Base Section 3. Line of Communications, A.E.F.
Office Aviation Officer,
35, Eaton Place
London S.W.1.
All the document in this folder were compiled by Howard C. Marmon Lt. Col. A.S., A.P. for Lt. Klemin, stationed at McCook Airfield in Ohio. They are dated 1918-1919 and were not declassified until December 1957.
I realize these documents contribute little (if at all) to building the model, but to me they are gold!
Cheers,
Willem
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What a great find! Congrats to Joshua for his efforts, these will be a very cool addition to the model when she's displayed.
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Hi Zac,
Yes this is indeed a great find. I just got word from my friend that has taken over 600 photographs of docs on the HP O/400, which he will share with me too.
He intends to scratch build a 1/48 skeleton model of the O/400, and in his research he's struck gold.
It surprises me that so many documents on these HP bombers are found on US soil, although we know that a number of the were build there by Standard Aircraft Corporation.
But as far as we know, no complete set of plans was ever sent.
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The cockpit – Engine controls.
"On the starboard wall of the cockpit was a group of eight levers on a common vertical axis. The upper four were the mixture controls, and the lower four were on-off controls for the petrol supply to the engines." (J.M. Bruce)
"Also on the starboard wall were two pairs of throttle levers, for forward and aft. engines, arranged, as in the 0/400, to control port and starboard engines differentially by rotating the knobs." (C.H. Barnes)
This part of the cockpit I have been putting off because it is what I dread the most.
Luckily, I have the instructions of WNW’s (never released) HP O/100 to give me an idea of the size, relative to the cockpit/fuselage frame:
(https://i.postimg.cc/2SRhBBtX/Engine-controls-WNW-01.jpg)
There are also two detailed drawings in the Handley Page O/400 Spare Parts Manual:
(https://i.postimg.cc/76H2pr6H/Engine-controls-01.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4dW9G27z/Engine-controls-02.jpg)
This is a photograph of the crushed cockpit of the Handley Page V/1500, F7140, Atlantic, after it crashed on 5 July 1919 at at Parrsboro’, Nova Scotia in Canada:
(https://i.postimg.cc/zfXfY96p/HP-V-1500-Atlantic-engine-controls.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkMRBwp5/HP-V-1500-Atlantic-016-engine-controls-02.jpg)
And then there is this photograph from C.H. Barnes’s “Handley Page Aircraft Since 1907”:
(https://i.postimg.cc/kgkzkwBX/Cockpit-01-HP-V-1500.jpg)
Work on it will start this weekend, so please be patient.
Cheers,
Willem