forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => WW1 Aircraft Information/Questions => Topic started by: James on April 03, 2020, 04:20:15 AM
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With being stuck at home now, and my wife possibly finally coming home, Tuesday possibly, after being in hospitals, long term acute care facilities, skilled nursing, rehab, etc. since December 9, 2018 I will time on my hands and can get back into modelling. I was wondering what brand/brands of paint do y'all use? Any brands to stay away from? Any that are highly recommend?
Thanks,
James Sontag
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James, good to hear from the recovery of your wife.
I think the question about colors will bring you as many answers as paints are around there. I must say that I am very happy with Tamiya and Mr Hobby acrylics. They are not too expensive and widely available here from many mailorders. Something very nice and very special are Mr Paint colors. They aren’t cheap and much thinner then the aforementioned colors — more like ink. But they spray wonderfully and I really love them.
There’s that other color system, the „Spanish“ acrylics like vallejo, AK or Scale75. They are great for brushpainting figures and smaller details, but I never ever put them into my airbrush.
Best regards
Andreas
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Thank you, Borsos, that means a lot. Since December 9, 2018, Christy, my wife, has only been home January 5 - 15 2019 and July 26 - September 11, 2019.
So Tamiya and Mr Hobby acrylics are your choices, and if one wants to splurge, Mr Paint. How's Humbrol, as I always loved Humbrol as a kid in the 1970's building World War II aircraft.I would like to get some Drooling Bulldog paint before they do no more. How are some for brush painting? Any brand that has World War I aircraft specific colors?
Thanks again my friend, hope you and your family are safe and that also goes for everyone here,
James
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I can only sign, what Andreas wrote above!
Just a clarification because of confusing names:
Gunze has a alcohol based acrylic series "Mr.Hobby - Aqueous Hobby Color", the color names starts with H, e.g H301.
Another Gunze series is "Mr.Color" solvent based acrylic paint, the names starts with C, e.g. C301
Mr.Paint sounds similar, but this is a complete different company from Slovakia: https://mrpaint.sk/
They sell different paint series, I really like the lacquer base "Mr.Paint" series, names like MRP-254 (and yes, there are some WWI colors)
The Aqua based ones are MRP-A001, but I haven't tried them.
For metal colors I think the reference are "Alclad II" paint series, they are fantastic.
I must admit that the smell of Alclads and Mr.Paints are heavy (some people refuse to use them because of that), but with a extraction unit this goes out of my window this is not a issue. But that solvents allow a easy handling and other advantages, which cannot be reached by water based acryls.
Compared the smell of Mr.Hobby is much less.
Cheers,
Frank
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Thank you, Frank. I will check out the paints the both of you recommend.
James
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Good to hear about your Wife coming home. I agree about Tamiya, I love the results. I also have been using a lot of Valejo Acrylics. ( Available from My Local Hobby Store and Local Hobby Lobby). They are a bit different and take getting used to but have a wide range. Also hand brush very well for smaller parts and even larger areas. Some hate Valejo but I tend to disagree. JMHO,
RAGIII
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Thank you, Rick. In a way, I kinda hope they keep her there longer, as he immune system isn't the greatest and she's [probably sager at the rehab facility. Haven't seen her physically in over two weeks as the day she went there was the first day of no visitors. We do video chat.
Anyway, I will also check out Valejo as well. Thank you so much,
James
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Thank you, Borsos, that means a lot. Since December 9, 2018, Christy, my wife, has only been home January 5 - 15 2019 and July 26 - September 11, 2019.
So Tamiya and Mr Hobby acrylics are your choices, and if one wants to splurge, Mr Paint. How's Humbrol, as I always loved Humbrol as a kid in the 1970's building World War II aircraft.I would like to get some Drooling Bulldog paint before they do no more. How are some for brush painting? Any brand that has World War I aircraft specific colors?
Thanks again my friend, hope you and your family are safe and that also goes for everyone here,
James
I also used Humbrol and Revell enamels as a kid. Usually I prefer acrylics now (alcohol or water based ones) because of the smell. I do have some drooling bulldog colors and I really like them, I just didn’t know if I should have recommended them as they are obviously no more longer produced. I personally doubt the existence of something like a „specific WWI color“, because there weren’t specific colors in these days anyway and no one really can know the exact shade of the planes 100 years ago (the few color photographs don’t show exact colors and museum pieces age dramatically). But that doesn’t mean that I don’t use colors that are called e. g. „PC-10“ or „PC-12“, I really like these shades made by Mr. Paint. Not because they are called „PC-10“, but because they look great on a model. Well, on the other hand the „Richthofen‘s red“ from the same brand is as much a nonsense name (and a marketing strategy) as the „Fokker grey“ that AK offers. (I always use RLM02 for green grey metal surfaces with Albatros or Fokker planes, and I am not the only one here).
Might that help?
Again, good luck for you and your wife, from december 8, 2018, till now, that’s an awful amount of time!
Stay well,
Andreas
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Thank you again, my friend. I totally see your point, that there not really and "specific" WW I colors. PC 10 can be debated and argued that it was this or that shade, and hardly anybody agrees with one another. What I'm wondering then, what would you use for Pfalz silbergrau? Jasta 5 green? What about doped linen? Really new at World War I aircraft.
I agree, it's been way too long for Christy.
James
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Hey James, you asked about Humbrol paint, which rather dominated the market (in Europe anyway) before the millennium. Back then there was a lot of lead in their enamels, so the formula changed to conform with new safety regulations. Unfortunately the paint quality went through the floor with lack of opacity and some just refusing to ever dry! Many changes of formula later, the current range is good for brush painting small areas but quite difficult to thin properly for spraying. I have a drawerful of them but can't remember when I last opened one!
Revell enamels cover better but are quite thick and usually need thinning even for brush painting: also dry too quickly.
For spraying, the guys above have covered things pretty comprehensively, although I'd add that Xtracolour from Hannants gives really good results.
For brush painting, my go to choice is the Revell Aqua water-based range. You need a quick spray with an undercoat - a rattle can, over the sprues does fine if you don't have an airbrush - then the Aqua colours flow well and dry very quickly.
I do most of my interiors with this stuff. A thick brushful first, then water-thinned darkened or lightened post-shading, then a wash of the original colour over the top to tone it all in. For spraying it, I use isopropyl alcohol instead of water, makes a great base for working with artists oils for a wood finish. For most exterior colours though I'd use Tamiya or Gunze.
I also make model cars and often decant paint from Halfords rattle cans for shiny coats - but the primer white and grey are a great source of cheap undercoat for any type of model.
HTH and best wishes for the health/lockdown situation.
Sandy
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Thank you again, my friend. I totally see your point, that there not really and "specific" WW I colors. PC 10 can be debated and argued that it was this or that shade, and hardly anybody agrees with one another. What I'm wondering then, what would you use for Pfalz silbergrau? Jasta 5 green? What about doped linen? Really new at World War I aircraft.
I agree, it's been way too long for Christy.
James
Hello James,
For Pfalz Silbergrau and French Enduit metalisee on Nieuports, they just added Aluminium flakes to the paint. I usually mix Mr. Color silver with white. That’s it. For the tails of the Jasta 5 planes I‘d recommend any deep green shade. And for CDL everything from off-white to ocker is fine, in my opinion — always depending on whether the linnen was bleached or not.
That’s the fine thing (one of so many...) that there’s no one who can say, „ah, the red you used is too ... something“, or „the blue is too bright“ or whatever.
I‘d like to add one thing to Sandy‘s thoughts on Revell Aqua Color. These are the only Acrylics available in shops here in Germany, so if I urgently need a certain color, from time, to time I‘ve got no choice. The alternative would be ordering one jar of paint from a mailorder and pay postage. I don’t like Revell Aqua Color too much. But They are better thinned and airbrushed with a mild window cleaner than with water, then they spray very much better.
Best regards
Andreas
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Thank you both, Sandy and Andreas. I know what I will be doing today...looking for paint online.
James
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There's an option for metallic colored WWI schemes. Vallejo has a line of metallic paints that's been out for a couple of years called Metal Color. These are water based acrylics and do a remarkably good job even though you don't have to put up with the powerful order of lacquers like Alclad (or the new Tamiya Lacquers) or even the more mild Gunze "acrylic lacquers." They've got about 15 colors. They sell a four bottle set designed for WWI aircraft (at least designed for fabric covered planes - I doubt they're thinking Piper Cubs). It includes Dull Aluminum, Semi-matte Aluminum, White Aluminum and Chrome. Dull Aluminum is simply their aluminum paint with a good dose of matte gray in it - good match for dope to my eyes. Ditto with Semi-matte aluminum. The other two colors are designed for real metal parts. I think I'd use either their Silver or standard Aluminum for metal. The set and individual bottles are widely available. Single bottles are about $8 for 32ml - a good price. I've had very good luck with these and they airbrush very well. If you get them make sure you keep the cap well sealed - it's a convenient bottle but would dry out if not properly sealed. I can't stand lacquers or enamels so these odor free water based paints have opened the door to making perfectly good natural metal finish aircraft of any era.
Eric
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Of all the recommendations, which are best for brush painting?
Thanks,
James
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Hi James
I'm a brush painter and there are several paint brands I find that brush quite well. I use all of these:
1. Vallejo Model Color. Thin with water, brush well, good range of colors.
2. Humbrol acrylic. Excellent coverage, brush well, no brush marks.
3. Citadel/ Games Workshop. Used by wargamers this is a British brand I highly recommend. Their metal shades are excellent. I've also mixed their metal shades with matt white for a Pfalz silver grey effect.
4. Lifecolor. Good range of colors.
Online retailers should stock all of these lines.
Cheers
Dave W
Gold Coast
Australia
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Thank you so much Dave. I'm gonna check these out now.
James
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Hi James
The Citadel/ Games Workshop brand paint does not get much profile on aircraft model forums but their metallics are outstanding. I use their Chainmail as a go-to for silver/ aluminium finishes and their Boltgun Metal is a darker steel-like shade I'm using on a WnW Albatros D.V right now.
These paints thin with water- I use demineralised water - and give great brush coverage.
I'm happy to answer any brush painting questions you may have. We brush painters have to support one another! :)
cheers
Dave W
Gold Coast
Australia
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Hi James
The Citadel/ Games Workshop brand paint does not get much profile on aircraft model forums but their metallics are outstanding. I use their Chainmail as a go-to for silver/ aluminium finishes and their Boltgun Metal is a darker steel-like shade I'm using on a WnW Albatros D.V right now.
These paints thin with water- I use demineralised water - and give great brush coverage.
I'm happy to answer any brush painting questions you may have. We brush painters have to support one another! :)
cheers
Dave W
Gold Coast
Australia
Hi Dave, thank so much my friend. May I ask you what colors do you use for German and British aircraft from Humbrol and Vallejo? Hopefully do some paint shopping today and get the colors I need as I have none and don't know much about WW I aircraft colors.
I have never used an airbrush, though I bought one 25 years ago. Been brush painting since I was a kid in the 1970's.
James
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Hi James
I tend to mix my own formulas for British & German WW1 aircraft so it might be easier to nominate an aircraft and I can say what I'd use for it.
In general the British airplanes were all finished in PC10 and that's a real can of worms re color. Everything from olive green to chocolate brown and they are all correct!
For PC10 my options with Humbrol are a home mix of Humbrol 29 dark earth and some black, or from the tin Humbrol 155 olive green. Wingnuts nominate Humbrol 155 in their instructions and I find the Wingnut instructions are excellent for color guides. For clear doped linen I'm liking the Citadel/ Games Workshop Flayed Flesh color ( these paints have scary names for wargamer figures!)
My German mauves and greens are mixed from Citadel / Foundation range colours.
A suggestion for you is go to the Wingnuts site where all of the kit instruction booklets can be downloaded for free. These are invaluable references in their own right and the instruction books for the sold out kits are still downloadable too.
These booklets will give you an excellent assortment of suggested color mixes for German and British aircraft.
Re brush painting I believe a good quality brush (sable) will deliver a smooth mark free finish if you use properly thinned paint.
I'm working on the Wingnuts von Richthofen edition Albatros D.V right now. It's brush painted and I used a mix of Vallejo Vermilion slightly darkened to get the right hue I sought. I wanted to avoid the bright red most MVR models are finished in. Again the WnW instructions were a very important guide.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJZ57cKg/20200517-130612.jpg)
Once the painting is finished I apply two brush coats of a home brew blend of Polly Scale flat and gloss clear coats for a semi satin sheen. Sadly Polly Scale's superb coatings have been OOP for some years but I bought a goodly stock of them before they vanished.
A good matt varnish is not easily found for brush painters but the Vallejo matt is worth some attention.
The other go- to references for any of these models are Ray Rimmel's Windsock Datafiles and his outstanding series on making the various Wingnut kits. His How to make the Wingnuts Albatros publication has been my chief reference source for this build. Absolutely essential! Ray also covers paints plus many other items for each build. I can't recommend them highly enough!
cheers
Dave W
Gold Coast
Australia
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Thank you again, Dave. I will get some Humbrol and do like you said and experiment. FANTASTIC work on the Albatros my friend.
James
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What is your opinion on AK WW I German Aircraft Colors? Do they brush well, as they have a lot of colors? This is what I'm talking about.
https://ak-interactive.com/product/wwi-german-aircraft-colors/
Thanks again everyone, trying to get going back to building soon,
James
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I'm a very simple soul - I stick to Tamiya acrylics, thinned with X20A, with an airbrush.
I find knowing one set of paints very well gives you the knowledge & experience to mix and match paints to find pretty much any colour you are after. They also brush well, when thinned adequately.
Plus, they are so much more pleasant to spray than enamels, with far less smell and danger. They are easy to get hold off, not too expensive, well tested and widely referenced.
I do have 2 enamels - the silver Tamiya enamels WNW recommends for the turned aluminium cowling finish on the Fokker Eindeckers and Taube.
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I'm a paint fan - I hope I can do this clearly.
Paints for styrene (or anything really) have pigments (what colors them) and an agent (what the pigment is in). Both agents and pigments vary - but what really counts usually is the agent.
Enamel paints have a chemical solvent as an agent. They are the oldest type of paint used on styrene. They render good color and can be hand or airbrush painted well. They take a long time to dry, have a very strong odor and are tough on clean-up. Many of us started with enamels years ago, (hand painted natch - when I was 12 I'd never heard of an airbrush) but few use them anymore. There are many enamel based weathering products that are effective if you don't mind the smell and mess. Testors, Humbrol and Colourcoats are the only enamel paints I know of still sold.
"Acrylic" paints are a real moving target and vary greatly in agent and pigment. Acrylics dry much faster than enamels, have a more muted odor, and, at least to some degree can be cleaned up with water. The most popular acrylics are solvent based - this means Tamiya, Gunze and a very popular new paint from Eastern Europe MRP. Because they're solvent based they do have an odor, but it's not too bad. (You can tell a solvent based paint because on its label it will say "flammable" and "toxic.") You thin solvent based acrylics with solvent thinners - many people use the thinner made by the company. However, I'd use "lacquer" thinner - both Gunze and Tamiya make it. I think it's much better than Tamiya's "acrylic" thinner A-20. I think that if you don't mind the slight odor that the solvent based acrylics have they are the best paints available for the airbrush. You'll have to decide on your own ratio of paint to thinner for good results - the type of airbrush has impact there. But these are very good paints for most purposes - Tamiya is easily found is made by the best modeling company on earth. None of the solvent based acrylics are very good for brush painting - some of the qualities that make them good for airbrush actually work against them. (Should note that the company AK is now making a line called "Real Color" which are very like Gunze and are widely admired for the accuracy of their military colors. Don't know how important that is for WWI topics.) You can hand brush with solvent acrylics, but they don't excel.
Water based acrylics have an agent that is a kind of watered down plastic polymer. (Water based acrylics are not flammable nor are they toxic - hence their popularity in schools. Some of their pigments, however, you wouldn't want to inhale, so in theory, you should use a mask while airbrushing. I don't.) If you could see it, it's white. These are very different paints and require different techniques. You can thin water based acrylics with water - but only a little bit - maybe 20% at most. The most prominent water based acrylics are made by the Spanish company Vallejo. They are sold as Model Color and Model Air. Model Color paints are pretty thick and really made for brush painting at which they excel. Model Air has a greatly thinned polymer and is made for the airbrush. Vallejo makes a thinner which I'd certainly use - but use it instead of water - only 20% max. (Take my word for it: if a polymer based acrylic is overly thinned with water the finish will be very fragile and may not really take at all.) A better thinner I think is what Vallejo calls "Thinner Medium" which is white - and is really a very thin version of the polymer agent. Art House brands like Golden and Liquitex make better "Airbrush Medium" (same white stuff, just with better ingredients) which is what I use. (Golden is to acrylic paints what Tamiya is to models. Golden has a bewildering variety of acrylic paints and mediums - they aren't cheap but they are the best. Mind you, artist materials are all cheaper than modeling materials because they sell it in much larger quantities. If you log onto the big Vallejo web site, your first choice is to choose between "Arts" and "Models." I wish Golden knew how much paint they could sell to modelers - or maybe we really are a small market.) There are other water based acrylics: the Italian company LifeColor has a huge number of colors and a loyal fan base, although they have a learning curve with the airbrush. The American company Mission Models makes very good water based acrylics too, but you must buy their thinner and resin to go with them. There are many colors. Ak Interractive also makes water based acrylics - their team was formerly from Vallejo. The best model paints are from Golden - but you have to dispense with military colors, which most modelers won't do. I like to mix my own colors, so they're great for me. Golden High Flow are terrific in an airbrush. All water based acrylics hand brush very well. You will want some of these as hand painting will always come up. People who do figures will have a huge array of paints like Model Color (and, if they're smart, Golden Fluid Acrylics).
Lastly there are lacquers. They have a solvent agent that's "hot" and pretty much demands a model company's thinner. (Never use a hardware store lacquer thinner on plastic - it will scar it badly.) Because they're "hot" they actually bond directly to the plastic itself. Lacquer paints - Alclad is the most famous - are good for metallics but have a very powerful odor. There are people that argue that Tamiya and Gunze as at least "half lacquers" - but I wouldn't worry. I use a automotive lacquer primer which I like very much - but only outside.
Oils - Increasingly oils paints are making their way into the modeling world. If you use them at all - this would be for weathering or trying to replicate wood grain - you don't need many colors. You also don't need big tubes. For most purposes "student" grade oils in small tubes are fine - you will need odorless "White Spirit." I use Gamblin "Fast Matte" oils paints (which dry very quickly) and employ a terrific spirit Gamblin calls Gamsol. Not cheap, but the most benign spirit on earth.
You can't go wrong with Tamiya - unless you're picky and want to master water based paints. But what colors? Model companies suggest colors and usually reference them to a particular type of paint. Wingnut Wings gives their colors in Tamiya and Humbrol. Eduard gives theirs in Gunze. There are web sites that have ways to figure out what a Tamiya paint is in another color: (For instance Tamiya XF1 Flat Black is Gunze C83.) I might add that with Tamiya you can buy smaller bottles - in general I'd recommend them, unless you're dealing with very common paints like black or neutral gray. Paints don't improve with age, especially when opened.
Best of luck.
Eric
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Hi everyone,
I have been reading this thread with interest and was wondering if anyone uses Misterkit paints that I have seen mentioned in the books by Day Rimmel. I found a very clunky to use website listing their paints but they aren't in any particular order.
Drooling Bulldog paints sound good but if they are going out of production, then it becomes a bit of an issue if you run out half way though a model and can't get anymore. The other problem with them is the naming of them. I haven't a clue what some off them are 😀
MRP I have never used and I find that the likes of Vallejo do not stand up to handling very well. I find that it tubs off of raised detail very quickly.
So like many I use the listed Tamiya paints as listed in the WNW instructions.
Now to the crux of the matter. I am colour blind so find mixing paints by eye impossible. I have in my stash one of CSM's fine Neiuport s and they just list colours like, dark blue, light blue. Does anyone have any recommendations for suitable model colours to help me out.
Is their a list of WW1 colours anywhere with paint companies equivalent paints anywhere.
Best wishes, Mark