forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Scratch builds => Topic started by: kensar on November 24, 2019, 05:46:39 AM
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Time for full disclosure! I have been planning a 1/32 Thomas Morse S4C for some time and now I have started the build. My Dad passed away numerous years ago and going through some papers he had saved, I came across line drawings for a Thomas Morse S4B and C which he had saved from Model Airplane News, May 1957.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKSkgVK4/thomas-morse-01.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mZMf804m/thomas-morse-02.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I don't know why he saved these, along with some drawings of a Fokker D.VII, a couple of Neiuports, and a Chance Vought from between the wars. Maybe they were just from issues of MAN he bought. I did some research on the Tommy. There are no 1/32 scale kits of this plane - good reason to scratch one.
The Tommy was intended to be America's first scout plane, but performance wasn't comparable to the contemporary planes from Europe, so it became an advanced trainer. Most all American aviators trained during WW1 had time in one, so I believe it is a significant plane.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtvWtsKW/Thomas-Morse-S-4c-Scout-2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The Gnome Monosaupape was installed in the S4B and the first 50 S4C. Then the LeRhone became available and was installed in subsequent S4Cs.
I have already built the Gnome engine. Vector resin helped out here. A tea ball is handy when washing small resin parts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/k5gyt4vw/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-01.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9X61NccF/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-02.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Of course, we can't build anything OOB, can we?
(https://i.postimg.cc/52330vL6/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-03.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
RB Motion helped out here, with the bolts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/13PBsMgk/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-04.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/s2yXYjJj/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-05.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Finito!
(https://i.postimg.cc/gkCr0qX6/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-06.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Next, I need to make a cowling that will fit around the engine. From there, the firewall and fuse can be built and everything will fit together. I had good results with aluminum on the Hanriot, so here we go!
First setup in the lathe - carving out the inside.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tTr2HxYd/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-08.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Now I needed to cut the inside of the curved front end of the cowling. I went one step beyond the Hanriot cowling, and made a lathe tool to cut the inside curve. Its nice to be able to make custom tooling.
(https://i.postimg.cc/k5mjNC0S/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-09.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7LnKmc4W/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-10.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
New tool in action. The radial lines on the inside are from the tool chattering when cutting. It is not stiff enough to stay rigid when cutting such a large surface at one time. It worked anyway.
(https://i.postimg.cc/j2LvqS7p/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-11.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sfNw65Fs/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-12.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Results of first lathe setup.
(https://i.postimg.cc/y8qnBBYG/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-13.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wTRFS3HJ/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-14.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Second setup - file the outside curve on the front of the cowling by hand, checking the shape with a pattern.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cxj7xtRx/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-16.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Finished cowling and engine.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FKNZdZSg/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-17.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
It fits! (But what did you expect?).
(https://i.postimg.cc/yNjTFZXq/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-18.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
This is where I'm at currently.
Get buckled in - polystyrene, here I come!
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Wow - that cowl is pretty brave. When I try to do thin stuff like that the tool eventually digs in and a razor sharp thing goes flying past my ear
I vac form them instead
Thomas-Morse significant - doesn't matter. Your model is significant because there are no kits of it
Looking forward to this
Richard
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Superb engineering, Ken.
I do envy you boys with all the toys :o
vB
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Simply amazing Ken. Looking forward to your progress (Credit will go to you if WNW, CSM or other releases this kit) ;D ;D ;D
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Superb engineering, Ken.
I do envy you boys with all the toys :o
vB
Agreed Bob. That being said if someone gifted these tools to Me I still don't think I could do what Ken is doing! Looking forward to this one Ken, Although I would Love to see it in Erroll Flynn Markings from Dawn Patrol 8)
RAGIII
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Nice mill work Ken :)
Terri
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Thanks for all the comments.
Richard - I have found thin parts need to be chucked up securely to prevent flying shrapnel. In this case, for the second lathe setup, I have a supporting disk shaped piece tucked inside the back end of the cowling for a secure grip in the chuck without crushing the piece. I may need to get a vac form setup put together for this build. The 'turtle deck' has a complex shape.
Bob - all those toys were collected over a lifetime!
Juan, Rick, and Terri - thanks for looking in and posting. I will likely do a rather plain, common training paint scheme - all khaki.
I still need to grind out the exhaust ports, so there's still a chance this cowling will come to ruin.
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hey ken!
this is a terrific job!
got my pop corn ready for the show!
ciao
edo
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I'll take some pictures of my sophisticated vac-forming kit for you
Suffice to say it consists of a very cheap vacuum cleaner, an equally cheap small oven, two hand made steel rings and a disk with a lot of holes that goes on the vacuum cleaner nozzle
You could also clean the floor and cook food with it!
Richard
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Wow Ken, what a fantastic start on a great project!
Some weeks ago I added a resin kit of this aircraft in 1/48 to my (already huge) stash, so I looked for references.
I can highly recommend the Windsock Datafile 166! Fantastic detailed drawings, rigging plans, great pictures (contemporary in b/w and also in color from a restoration).
You can also find some high resolution pictures here:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Thomas-Morse_S-4
Happy modeling!
Frank
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Beautiful stuff.
Way above my pay grade!
Guy
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A superb piece of milling there. Just wish that I had some of those tools too, and the skill to use them of course. Oh well I will just stick to my tray and files.... As for vacuforming - try push moulding instead - much simpler and no sophisticated tools required!
I completely agree that no kit is the best reason for scratch building one - after al that is what we scratch builders are here for aren't we?
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Thanks for weighing in, folks.
Glad to have you along, Edo and Guy.
Stephen, push molding is why I don't have a vac former already. I started building one, but got around it by push molding.
This time around, I may have to have one. Ready for those pictures, Richard.
I did grind out the exhaust openings in the cowl without destroying it. The small piece across the back edge of the cowling will have to be replaced by a simpler strap, as on the actual planes. Looks like the oval opening needs the edges thinned.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VkFLyBzS/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-19.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CKPh5hBS/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-20.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The upper longerons have quite a curve in them. I am trying to construct them using a laminate of 3 plys of 0.020" styrene so they will hold their shape.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vmH8Ggm0/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-21.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Many challenges, little time.
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Ready for those pictures, Richard.
You won't be impressed...
The frame hold the plastic sheet:
(http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/vac-forming/DSCF0081.JPG)
Which is heated in a very cheap oven:
(http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/vac-forming/DSCF0082.JPG)
Before applying to the vacuum thing:
(http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/vac-forming/DSCF0077.JPG)
which links:
(http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/vac-forming/DSCF0078.JPG)
(http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/vac-forming/DSCF0080.JPG)
To an equally cheap vacuum cleaner:
(http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/vac-forming/DSCF0079.JPG)
Does that give you ideas?
Richard
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That vacuform machine looks far too sophisticated for me. However at that size I would be able to mould most of the parts that I would need. That is certainly a way to go forward.
Stephen.
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If I made another, I'd make a small rectangliar frame that used a sensible fraction of A4 size. A7 maybe. Cutting circles seems an unnecessary faff
You may find your house already contains an oven and a vacuum cleaner...
Richard
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WOW! Very impressive. I am out of words!
Bye,
Manni
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Seat of your pant's modelling!!Love it.
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A pleasant mix of sorcery and MacGyver. :)
Robin
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A small update.
I have the main wooden frame put together. The curved upper longerons and angled bottom of the frame made for a more challenging build. Still haven't decided how to make the turtle deck and bottom of the fuse yet. They have many longerons and curves in them.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0Q2Xw8kP/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-23.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Put together some of the cockpit hardware. Most of this is very simple.
Here is the seat, rudder bar, stick, and aileron mechanism. The S4C had torsion bar operated ailerons, like the Nieuports.
(https://i.postimg.cc/pdB1r9ts/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-25.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I expect to be painting the wood frame soon. I'll forego the wood graining here, as it would be very hard to see in this scale anyway (and I won't have to wait for oil paint to dry).
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Outstanding work as always Ken! The Frame and cockpit bits look awesome!
RAGIII
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I just found this and 😮😮😮!
/Fredrik
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This is fascinating Ken,I'm really enjoying following your process,
Cheers,
Dave.
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Wonderous work Ken and a great subject !
Ed
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Most of the interior is done, save for a pulseometer and the seat and belts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/02Ww8kFm/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-26.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NffXq9JB/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-27.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/kg2tDrPH/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-29.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9fTRtGMt/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-30.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7hq2Lfq1/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-31.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nhN9DdHh/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-32.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CM48QH4c/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-33.jpg)
The turtle deck and the bottom are going to take some creativity.
comments are welcome. (https://postimages.org/)
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Flippin 'eck!!! :o
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wow!...just wow! Beautiful!
Robin :)
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Just superb work end to end Ken, very impressive even at this early stage!
Cheers,
Lance
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Such impressive work - hats off to you!
Cheers,
Gary
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Truly magnificent work in every way, Ken!
Cheers,
Bud
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wow!
it’s a beauty!
ciao
edo
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Thank you for your wonderful comments, gents. They really help keep the momentum going.
I don't think I lost anything by not painting woodgrain on the entire frame. I only did it on the IP, footboards, and the wooden hoop reinforcing the cockpit. The real challenges are coming up - how to realistically render the bottom and top of the fuse. Currently waiting for a pulseometer from Taurus. Also need to add a switch lever to the switch.
Thanks for following along!
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Truly magnificent work in every way, Ken!
Cheers,
Bud
I agree with My Amigo 100% as always! Magnificent indeed!
RAGIII
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A small update. added the seat and belts. The cushion is Miliput, the leather seat back covering is masking tape, as are the seat belts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Zqts8tWK/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-35.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLhVNb1t/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-36.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QdWnKxxy/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-38.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Still waiting for a Taurus pulseometer and now working on developing a vacuum former and a process for using it.
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Beautiful!
Richard
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Absolutely Stunning!
RAGIII
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Do you use a kit, we all do not know about? A test build for a unknown manufacturer?
No, because your scratch work is better than any kit could provide!
Holy shit, that's awesome!
Cheers,
Frank
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Thanks for the complementary comments, guys.
I do like make a lot of the details without spending a lot of money on aftermarket parts. For some things, aftermarket can't be beat without a lot of teeth gnashing, like machine guns and engines.
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Thanks for the complementary comments, guys.
I do like make a lot of the details without spending a lot of money on aftermarket parts. For some things, aftermarket can't be beat without a lot of teeth gnashing, like machine guns and engines.
I'm much the same, a WnW engine and some Gaspatch guns fill me with delight. And I know they are going to set my build off nicely
Richard
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Beautiful work thrus far ! :)
Terri
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Finally getting back to this one after the holidays and family commitments.
I've been learning the ins and outs of vacuum forming and its still not completely to my liking, but many times you learn by doing. I just don't like wasting a lot of styrene sheets trying to figure things out.
In my first attempt I made a smooth part for the bottom of the fuse. After some trials, I was able to make a useable part from 0.020" stryene.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FFfmD0hh/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-39.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Having gotten this far, I added wire to the mold to simulate longerons.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fRsNzFmb/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-40.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And formed another useable part from 0.020" styrene.
(https://i.postimg.cc/05Lv3rND/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-41.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/L6LSMRq7/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-42.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I used a lot of 0.010" sheets trying to get a good part, but concluded this is too thin to vacuum form well.
Next I will try a vac formed fuselage turtledeck, which is a more complicated shape.
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A couple of things
No, 0.010" doesn't work - I found out the hard way too
If you don't release the sheet from it's frame, you can take a poorly formed vac, reheat it and it will relax into a flat sheet again. I have done this, usually when I didn't get the styrene hot enough in the first place
Richard
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Wonderful progress on the build !
Ed
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Wonderful progress on the build !
Ed
I agree with My Amigo! Awesome Progress!
RAGIII
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Richard - thanks for relating your experience with the 0.010" sheet. It validates my conclusion. Reheating poorly formed sheet should save me some plastic also. When I don't get a good forming sheet, I think its due to the large amount of sag in the plastic sheet. It ends up making alot of wrinkles. Not enough sag, and it doesn't form well around the mould (or is that mold?).
Rick and Ed - yes its nice to be making progress on this again.
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I don't understand why you get wrinkles away from the former. The plastic should just suck down flat
How are your air holes distributed?
Richard
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They're not. Maybe that's the problem. I have one hole about 25mm diam in the middle of the table and the table is covered with fine wire mesh, as is used for filtering materials. The vacuum should probably be distributed out more evenly.
Anyway, new update.
Some internal structure is visible through the cockpit opening - the longerons running on the bottom of the fuse, so...
(https://i.postimg.cc/fb04RLGN/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-43.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/g27FpRBs/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-44.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The hard part is getting them reasonably straight.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3xN5z99W/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-45.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
After painting. Didn't bother trying to get 100% coverage on the bottom surfaces as that won't be seen.
It looks realistically busy now.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9FWjYc7d/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-46.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0QgTMvvJ/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-47.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3JnQLzXP/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-48.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The vacuum formed bottom will be covering this structure. It doesn't fit flush together, but I don't think it will be noticeable.
Thanks for looking and following along.
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That looks fantastic. The extra stringer detail really adds a lot of depth.
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Spectacular progress Ken,great work.
Dave.
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Just getting caught up on your latest progress and I must say that she is coming along very well Ken , shame that most of the detail will be covered .
Terri
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Gorgeous work on the interior details and stringers!
RAGIII
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Another update - turtle deck and tail surfaces.
I fully expected to have to vacuum form the turtle deck, but was pleasantly surprised to see it was not a complex curve shape, but a simple curve. This makes things easier, as I don't have to vacuum form. I will skin it with 0.010" styrene with embossed longeron impressions.
I first made a paper pattern to get the shape, then cut out the shape in 0.010" styrene and embossed the longerons in it ala Woodman. Then glued one edge on the fuse frame. When dried, I applied more glue and wrapped it around the top of the fuse and used rubber bands to hold it to the frame. I use Testors Model Master glue sparingly when using 0.010" sheet, as Tamiya liquid glue is far too 'hot' for such a thin sheet. Anyway, a couple of pictures.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0QkVQ76X/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-51.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/N07NBd0r/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-52.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I'm also working on hinging the tail surfaces. The Tommy has a long hinge pin holding the moving surfaces to the stationary ones. The hinge pin goes through strap hinges. I couldn't figure out how to secure such small strap hinges to the plastic surfaces to my satisfaction, so I am making eyelets, like used for rigging and gluing them into the edges of the tail surfaces. The hinge pin goes through the eyelets, holding the surfaces together, and they are functioning hinges (which I may regret later).
(https://i.postimg.cc/8zvKnpQ4/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-49.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1zZWkkyQ/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-50.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Thanks for looking in!
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The upper decking looks excellent. The operating hinges are a nice addition to this beautiful build!
RAGIII
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Thanks, Rick. I would rather have poseable tail surfaces than operating ones when it comes time to rig it.
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Really haven't been following along , but I have a look see every once and while and I must say Ken ...Really nice work all around , well so far :)
Is there a a lot of play with in the hinge from using the eyelets ? Should be interesting once you start with the rigging .
Terri
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Thanks for stopping by, Terri. I know this forum doesn't get the traffic the Under Construction forum does, and that's okay. There's absolutely no play in the hinges, in fact they bind up slightly, which keeps the surfaces from flopping around so much. I may have to glue the hinges together in order rig the tail, just to keep the two sides of the elevator even. There is no connection between the two sides.
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Ken, you made a great progess!
Just for interest, no critics (my be I have overlooked your explanation): the frame looks a bit on the thick side, compared to your drawing.
Is this due to the robustness of plastic?
In 1/48 thin evergreen is not robust enough, so brass or real wood would be a solution in the smaller scale?
Cheers,
Frank
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Hello Frank,
The frame is about 150% thicker than it should be in scale due to the lack of stiffness in styrene at 0.040" thick. It may be possible to construct a frame using 0.040" styrene, but I have not attempted one yet, this being only the second scratchbuild I have made that needed a frame. I opted to go with a robust frame, since little of it is actually visible and I think it avoids a lot of problems with dimensional stability (lack of stiffness). Even the real aircraft needed wire bracing throughout to improve stiffness.
That being said, metal or some types of wood may be a good alternative material for frames in these models. One would then have to deal with joining different materials when constructing a model, as styrene would still be used for some parts that would be attached to the frame. (The engineer in me is coming out!). A possible way around this is to trap the frame within a styrene skin, as I did on my first scratchbuild, the Fokker v.23 - there is a build thread in the scratchbuild subforum.
Thanks for commenting, Frank. I enjoy these discussions.
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Hello Frank,
The frame is about 150% thicker than it should be in scale due to the lack of stiffness in styrene at 0.040" thick. It may be possible to construct a frame using 0.040" styrene, but I have not attempted one yet,
I'm not sure what you are saying here, Ken. If it helps, I've built models using 0.010" sheet and 0.040" square framing. I have usually stuck the square frame to the sheet while it was still flat, then made up a box
Richard
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Hi Richard,
My approach for this model was to build the frame first, then add the details inside it as access was easy, then skin it. Since the frame was built first, separate from the skin, I felt it needed to be sturdy enough for handling, dropping on the floor, etc. In my previous scratchbuild, the Hanriot, I built it as you mentioned, attaching the frame sides to the skin sides, then adding the interior details through the upper and lower fuse after the two sides were joined. This created some difficulties accessing the interior spaces to install the details. It was for this reason I took a different approach on this model. I will likely take another approach on the next build to address the oversize frame issue. I don't know what the approach will be yet - I'm still figuring things out.
Do you have a favored way to put a fuse together?
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As mine have all been simple boxes so far, make the sides, fit spacers to the top and bottom skin, then stick that lot together
That leaves the space over the cockpit open, and things go in that way. I'm finding that a better way of building than the usual injection moulded 'two halves' method
And whatever you do, it has to work for you!
Have you added holes/grooves to your vac forming setup?
Richard
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No, I haven't fixed that yet, but I will. I found I didn't need to vac form the turtledeck.
I am thinking about re-doing the fuse bottom to try to get a better part.
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Next update here...
I'm going to try some Gaspatch resin turnbuckles (1/32) on this one. I've seen that some people think they are too big, but I think they look reasonable. If anything, the loops on each end are too thick, otherwise, the brass part is about 5" in length and about 3/4" in diameter at the middle, the thickest part, in scale. I first planned to use some 1/48 metal turnbuckles, but the loops are too small for my rigging line and I couldn't drill them out - my hardened drill bits kept breaking! Painted with Alclad colors.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1jGDwz6/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-53.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Mixed up some color. It looks close to the restored planes I've come across on the net, but I wonder if it shouldn't be more brown?
(https://i.postimg.cc/59BgQSzN/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-54.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Tail parts primed and ready for drilling some holes for the rigging parts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/q76XJs0r/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-56.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I've glued on the bottom covering and still working the finer points on it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3xcFQLs9/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-57.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/htj1wF5f/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-58.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VLzRq099/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-59.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Thanks for dropping by! Your comments are most welcome.
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Lots of stuff on these forums are very impressive, but the schratchbuilds are possibly one step above the rest when it comes to impressiveness! Fantastic work! Very inspiring!
/Fredrik
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The covering looks awesome! Simply stunning build!
RAGIII
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Thanks for the comments, Fredrik and Rick.
It's coming along, little by little.
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Sorry to have been remiss in dropping in lately Ken: my energy and mojo levels have been very low of late and I have not been visiting sites as I would normally do.
Anyway I have caught up and as per usual am blown away by what you are doing. The details and precision are just mind blowing - the cowling is something that I wish I could make in this scale (I can in the True Scale but this is much larger). Excellent scratch building.
Stephen.
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Impressive scratchbuild, I've notiticed just now. You did a great work on engine and cockpit areas, and the fuselage is coming very nice.
Looking forward for next, final steps.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Moving forward with the skinning really well Ken 8)
Terri
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Thank you all for the encouraging comments.
Stephen - I think taking a break from time to time is necessary. I have already started and completed a resin sailplane model since starting this one, just for a temporary distraction from this build.
Giuseppe - Thanks for the comments. The 'final steps' are quite a long way off, but I am still motivated to finish this.
Terri - The skinning goes forward step by step.
I have remixed some paint for a more brown color and I think its more suitable - at least its the color I envisioned these planes to be. I also have sanded the sides of the loops on a Gaspatch resin turnbuckle, and I think it will go a long way to making them look better. They are still plenty strong enough to hold the rigging. Now there's a lot more turnbuckles to sand. The forward fuselage is getting attention now.
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This is looking really nice, Ken
Richard
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Thanks for commenting, Frank. I enjoy these discussions.
Thanks for the explanations, Ken. Me too :)
You made a really good progress.
I heard, that the resin turnbuckles are brittle, at least the 1/48 ones, so I stay with the metal ones.
But I own the new Palmer cord aero wheels in 1/48 form Gaspatch - that ones are simply U - N - B - E - L - I - E - V - A - B - L - E !
Cheers,
Frank
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Thanks for commenting, Richard and Frank.
I have sanded the sides of the loops on some turnbuckles as shown below. I'm hoping they will work okay. I usually put a minimum of tension on the rigging lines, so hopefully they won't break. The 2 upper turnbuckles were sanded with 400 grit sandpaper. The bottom one is original.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MK9r2dgd/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-69.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Paper pattern and one side made from 0.015" styrene.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdw4p8BQ/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-62.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Painting and weathering done before gluing. The darker oil stains are AK Interactive 'engine grime', and the lighter discoloration is pastel chalk.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GtQgpQt3/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-63.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3N7b76Kb/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-65.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Despite what seems like heavy weathering, the sides hardly look weathered at all after installing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BQSwVd7j/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-66.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/y8WpV0HB/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-68.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JzdgJPqG/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-60.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJgzcw9T/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-61.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Until next time.
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Brilliant Modeling Ken! Once closed up No One could tell, or believe, it was scratch built! Make sure you take photos to the contest 8)
RAGIII
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Ken,
Thanks for sharing your techniques. This is another great learning experience for us all
Kevin
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She is really starting to take shape now , Love it ! Impressive work on the lower part of the fuselage , looking forward to the next up-date .
Terri
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Thanks for stopping by, Rick, Kevin, and Terri. Your comments are truly appreciated.
I have put the base color on the tail surfaces. Will get to the control horns soon. The black hinges are just tape stuck on the surfaces.
(https://i.postimg.cc/59X8vYCP/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-71.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I have started on the front of the fuselage, with some metal panels.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dtddHbnr/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-70.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
somewhat slow going, but I like the results.
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Delicious!
And nice work on the tape hinge fakery. A bit of painted tape can pretend to be a lot of things
Richard
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Hello, Richard. I'm glad the hinges ended up being so simple to depict. I have added some detail to the metal panels and glued them to the fuse. Turning to the landing gear now. Pictures to follow.
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All shaping up rather splendidly, Ken.
Excellent!
von B :)
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Yes, its coming along nicely.
Thanks for stopping by, Bob.
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Ken, I really like that idea to plate it with real metal sheet! Will try that too one day ;)
Cheers,
Frank
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Ken,
Great thread, thanks.
... all those toys were collected over a lifetime!
I've looked at your amazing engine and cowl many times in amazement ... and am envious of your toys and skill.
Here's another great (!) toy you might want to add since you vacuform small parts:
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/412l2X3ECCL.jpg)
Video in operation here: https://tinyurl.com/wcvqewr
Very compact, but plastic sheets are limited to 5"x5". Around $100, for example here : https://www.ebay.com/p/895997529
Gene K
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I've seen those, Gene. I think they are too small for the investment, when I can make a vacuum former in any size I need.
Latest pictures of the metalwork.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5tFnthC1/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-72.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Last clear pictures of the cockpit before the panels went on.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kGwyZ9kN/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-75.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RhvRXqbV/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-76.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Thanks for following along!
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Brilliant Metal work and the interior looks awesome!
RAGIII
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I think they [dental vac formers] are too small for the investment ... .
But ... but .... you have all those other great toys 8).
I use mine a lot for small items... for example, for making 1/20 cowls for WWI Radio Control Models, as well as for canopies of all sizes. For larger items, I drag out the Shop Vac, etc.
Really enjoying your build -- thanks again.
Gene K
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Plodding along...
Some brutal closeups of the landing gear in primer.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NM6YMBnq/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-77.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3R5YYdnF/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-78.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5JgGJYc/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-80.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Fuse in primer.
(https://i.postimg.cc/gjGpL19w/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-81.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
While waiting for primer to dry, I have installed some control horns.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SQGkbQ8c/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-79.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Starting on the lower wings now. Layered up five 0.020" sheets of styrene with a slight bow in them for wing camber.
Thanks for following along.
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Oi - stop!
How did you make the control horns?
Richard
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Hi Richard,
I thought long and hard about the control horns. I ended up constructing them from a few different parts.
The base, though not completely accurate, are photoetched exhaust header flanges for an automobile exhaust system. PE bolt heads, of course. I believe they are from Model Car Garage.
The main part is a round toothpick, split part way down the middle, and the end of a PE control horn is CA glued into the split. This part goes through the base into a hole in the tail surface and epoxied in for strength.
The PE control horn is from an Eduard PE sheet of control horns and flying wire tensioners. I cut off the top of the PE control horn for use in this assembly.
I made six of these, so the process can be repeated somewhat consistently.
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That's very clever, nice one Ken
Richard
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That's very clever, nice one Ken
Richard
...and I agree! The primer looks good and so does the gear!
RAGIII
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Thanks R & R!
I've painted the fuse the base color and painted the number on one side of the fuse, waiting for it to dry. I used my Cameo cutter machine for those. The small numbers for the rudder was another story. I found some decals that would work perfectly, except that they were old and I had trouble getting them off the backing paper. Slight damage to them, but they are so small its not too noticeable.
This gave me time to rig the elevators...
To get a turnbuckle on each side of the elevator, I ran some monofilament through the elevator three times, catching the turnbuckles in the loops and then securing with CA.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3FjvNqJ/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-82.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Finished rigging in the usual manner.
(https://i.postimg.cc/m2Tyjwnx/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-83.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTgy4mrX/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-84.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ht58Sqtg/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-85.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0yQdRNxc/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-86.jpg)[/url (https://postimages.org/)
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Nice work on the control horns and rigging Ken , those turnbuckles sure add to the effect .
Terri
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Thanks, Terri. I's no wonder why the real plane was tail heavy.
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Did they actually have turnbuckles there though?
Richard
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Excellent rigging on the Tail Ken. Really looks the part!
RAGIII
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Did they actually have turnbuckles there though?
Yes, they went crazy with them. They were small ones.
Realizing this was a trainer aircraft, I guess they wanted the ability to tweak things back into place after student pilots mangled them.
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Did they actually have turnbuckles there though?
Yes, they went crazy with them. They were small ones.
Realizing this was a trainer aircraft, I guess they wanted the ability to tweak things back into place after student pilots mangled them.
OK, you've checked. Most planes I have checked just used a simple wire with a twisted end to brace the trailing edges. There's no real need to adjust it, the adjustment is on the control cables
Richard
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I just recently found the scratch build part of the forum and have read through this thread. I must say I am absolutely astonished by the skill you are demonstrating here. Truly amazing, I find building kits to be a challenge but this is on a completely different level. Utterly amazing!
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Thanks again for the comments. There is a lot of info around here and a lot of good ideas.
'Bout time for an update. I'm working on the remaining details of the fuse, which seems to take forever, but it shaping up nicely.
While waiting for paint to dry on the fuse, I knocked out the wheels.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvC7rz0T/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-87.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HxsvdtYf/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-91.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Got the paint on and cut out some number masks on the Cameo cutter.
(https://i.postimg.cc/26cc6B33/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-88.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8c7yrPr4/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-89.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rs7fGX1k/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-90.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Now I'm waiting for oil paint to cure on the wooden fairings for the axle. In the meantime, I've started on the wings.
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Wheels, painting , and Markings look beautiful! Stunning work!
RAGIII
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It is some time since I last dropped bu - you have made excellent progress in the meantime and my jaw hurts from hitting the desk so many times when I look at the level of detail that you are putting in. Simply superb in every way.
Stephen.
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Spectacular Craftmanship Ken :)
Terri
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Thanks for the kind comments, Rick, Stephen, and Terri. When the oil paint on the axle fairings is cured enough, I'll get the fuse on its legs. In the meantime I've started the wings. I just need to figure out how to avoid sanding my fingertips away while shaping the wing profile!
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Great updates, I specially like wheels and contro horns rigging.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Beautiful engineering and craftsmanship. It really does look fantastic.
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Wow, I'm in love with this build, incredible precision!
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I have to take a break from the TRUE hobby(model railroading), to say that this is the most incredible work I've seen in a couple of years!
You are a MASTER craftsman.
Sincerely, Harry
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Thank you for leaving the supportive and motivating comments Giuseppe, William, Richie, and Pietro.
I am currently working on the landing gear and I have started the wings. Updates and pictures will follow soon.
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Ahh, in that case, have some more supportive comments!
You are scarily good at this Ken, I may have to take up Macrame...
Richard
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Thanks for that support, Richard. But don't go anywhere - this place would not be the same without you!
Soon as Postimage completes their 'maintenance' I'll upload more pictures.
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Splendid work, Ken!
Marvellous :o
Von B
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Thank you, Bob!
Now for more pictures...
The landing gear is not as robust as I had hoped, but I think it will be fine.
(https://i.postimg.cc/y6G3KFdp/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-92.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/FRskrp38/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-93.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Putting it together. I'm going with brass tubing in place of the resin turnbuckles in some places.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MKjMpvf6/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-96.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/WzdDr497/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-98.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Still working on the wings and detailing the tail end of the fuse.
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Most excellent work on the landing gear Ken . What did you use for the bungee cord ? I don't like the stuff I'm currently using . Just doesn't have the right effect .
Terri
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Hello Terri. I use white sewing thread. I run it through some watered down white glue to prevent it from being fuzzy. After installing it, I'll put more white glue or thin CA glue on it to keep it from unraveling.
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Outstanding work on the Gear! It looks amazing!
RAGIII
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That looks very neat, I love the wood effect especially.
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I too had problems with the undercarriage on my big Gunbus, but it holds - just. Yours looks really good - very fine detail and I like the idea for the bungee cords.
Stephen.
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Hello Terri. I use white sewing thread. I run it through some watered down white glue to prevent it from being fuzzy. After installing it, I'll put more white glue or thin CA glue on it to keep it from unraveling.
I using sewing thread as well , I don't use the white glue . Have to try this , got some on the bench . Thanks Ken :)
Terri
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Thanks for comments.
I used the same technique for wrapping the tailskid of my Pup and the cockpit reinforcement for the Tommy. Just used tan thread.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dQz9djCH/WNW-Sopwith-Pup-24.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XvfHxH5K/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-37.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Seems to work well.
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"Seems to work well"? Seems to work very well to me!
Stephen.
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Such Beautiful work. I am always in AWE!
RAGIII
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Thanks again Ken , next time I'm at Walmart will be hitting the sewing section and toss the orange thread I have been using .
Terri
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There are many common everyday items that can be used in modeling.
Also, check out craft stores - look in the 'beading' section for small tools, rigging line, small wire, crimping tubes, etc.
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Working on the wings
The top wing cores and skins before gluing them together. The bottom wings are skinned.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZyt18kD/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-99.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HLtqJbKX/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-100.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Your wings are looking great! Sorry if I missed this but what do you use as a core?
RAGIII
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Hi Rick, The 'core' is five 0.020" thick sheets laminated together over a curved surface to put some camber in the wing. The skin in 0.010" sheet with embossed ribs, done with a drafting ink pen (no ink in it), like Woodman has shown in his book. I am skinning the top of the wings and using decal film strips on the bottom of the wings to simulate the rib tapes. The Tommy's wings have very little camber and look pretty much flat.
When gluing the top wing skins on, I mis-aligned the cut out for the ailerons with the first rib on each wing, one being farther from the cut out than the other. This would be very noticeable. So, to hide this, I have sanded the first rib impression off each wing. I figure it was the best course of action short of making another wing. The arrows show where this difference is.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GhXJpKbv/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-104.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
A couple of shots of the mostly finished tail. A lot of stuff going on there.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kgZQQ564/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-102.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvKxMGHC/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-103.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Hi Ken , I like how you did the mod on the top wing , very effective . Super job on all those tiny details on the tail , there is a lot going on :)
Terri
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Thanks for the comments, Terri. I'll be doing some final sanding on the wings next.
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Stunning work on the tail and fixing the wing. Looking absolutely Fantastic!
RAGIII
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Thank you, Rick. We'll see how the wing looks when its painted.
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Wow Ken, that is again great scratch work!
I have to repeat it: you don't need a kit - no mass production kit producer can do such nice details as you shown here on the tail!
B E A U T I F U L !!!
Cheers,
Frank
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Stunning detail on the tail unit. I like your method of making the wings but I am not sure that I will try it as I prefer to use the solid units and ribs via plastic strips, but your results certanly justify your methods.
Stephen.
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Thanks for stopping by, Frank. I guess I don't need a kit anymore, but it sure takes a long time to build one.
Stephen, thanks for commenting. There are some pitfalls using my method - I put too much liquid glue on one wing core and the skin wrinkled. I'm working that out now with putty and sanding. I do like the solid wing, though. It makes for very solid mounting points for struts and rigging.
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After carefully looking at the upper wings, where I had put too much glue, the rib detail has 'disappeared' in spots and is not consistent. I think the embossing was not heavy enough and too much glue sunk it into the top surface. So, to salvage these wings, I am considering sanding off the embossed ribs and putting on strips of 0.020" styrene and blending them into the surface. I'm thinking polyester resin for fiberglassing is a potential way of doing that. Yet another experiment.
-
What about pieces of wire into the embossing, before glueing the surface to the wing core?
Cheers,
Frank
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That sounds like a good idea, Frank. I'll have to keep that in mind for the next time. I didn't expect this problem this time around since it worked so well on my Hanriot.
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Sorry to hear of your rib issues Ken. I am however positive you will prevail!
RAGIII
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When I did the wings on my FE-8 I used a base core coated in testors liqued glue and double side tape , forming the skin over the core and glued the edges . No damage to the ribs . This is 10 years ago now and wings are still perfect .
I do like the wire idea , would a stiffer wire work well ? Would a slight curve to the wire holding its shape and then super glued in place ? :-\
Looking forward on seeing on it turns out .
Terri
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Salvage attempt # 284 (seems like it)
I glued 0.020" X 0.020" styrene strips on the top surface of the wings after sanding off all the previous rib detail.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NFTJZ75p/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-105.jpg)
Then sanded the ends near the leading and trailing edges until flush. Wing on the left is rough sanded, the one on the right is finished.
[url=https://postimages.org/](https://i.postimg.cc/cHPkD54v/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-106.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/02RHD3B3/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-107.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
After cutting out the ailerons, I brushed on a coating of epoxy fiberglassing resin to blend in the ribs into the top surface. The coating is self leveling, glass smooth, and hard enough to sand into a final shape.
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbGYn8R4/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-108.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xjb4kYtM/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-109.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
We'll see how this works out.
After a light sanding, it will be primered before painting.
-
Looks promising, Ken
I have some of those Altoids tins somewhere
Richard
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Looking forward to seeing how this works Ken, I suspect the answer is "very well". This is such an inspiring build, really enjoying seeing this unfold.
-
I really like the outcome! Looks like linen over ribs :)
Cheers,
Frank
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Hello all,
I am liking how this looks at this stage. I let it cure overnight and today I will do some light sanding and primering to get a good look at it. Hopefully, I won't be too distracted by the Roden Fokker Dr.1 and Albatros D.iii that should be arriving today!
I use some Altoid tins for holding small parts. My wife bought a case of Altoids, so I have these tins everywhere.
Thanks for looking and commenting.
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The wings/ribs do indeed look promising! I am sure you will get them in final form in no time!
RAGIII
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That's what I'm hoping, Rick. I want to get this project moving toward completion.
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That is an unfamiliar technique, but it looks very effective. I am thinking that with slightly taller ribs sticking up you could solve the issue of external rib battens as found on a MoS type N or an I'lya Muromets. Adding them later brings up the problem of getting them on straight, whereas your method would ensure they are all perfectly straight.
Really looking forward to seeing them morph into Tommy wings to match the rest of this great build.
sp
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That is a novel idea with the fibreglass resin - I would not have thought of that. Looking at the results so far it looks as though it could be the answer to your problem.
Stephen.
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After a bit of sanding and cleaning up, I cut out the aileron torque tube opening and added the spar. Then primered.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bvLjDJFg/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-110.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBBYnrsr/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-111.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7pTvnQg/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-112.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I think the wings look good enough to proceed. Next time I use this technique, I will not sand the ribs quite so much near the leading and trailing edges. In the top 2 pictures, the wing looks warped but its only the camera lens distortion.
Thanks for looking in on this project.
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Looks absolutely Amazing!
RAGIII
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I just jumped in, but I really like this build. The engine especially looks great!
Willem
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Thanks, Willem.
Looking at what you are attempting with your Handley Page build and knowing how big it is , you may need to rethink your construction approach.
I suspect at the very least, you will have to make more 'traditional' 2 part molds. The parts in the video you linked to are one-sided parts, not two sided parts like you are attempting to make.
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A quick update
The struts are made from wood and stained. Masking tape makes the bindings.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KYPvSr1c/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-113.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I used my cutting machine to make these painting masks for the insignias.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TwT2RLbV/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-114.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Getting the first colors on the wings.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yN4YbrYr/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-115.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
the work continues...
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The struts look great! Nice to see some paint going on the wings. Looking forward to the next update!
RAGIII
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Those are some very impressive struts - especially as they are real wood.
Stephen.
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Nice struts Ken - doing the same now: wooden struts ;)
Cheers,
Frank
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Looking great Ken, nothing like wood to represent wood! Been using masks I cut on a cricut machine this morning.
Looking forward to the next update.
-
Thanks for those positive comments.
I've painted the prop with oils and its drying. I'm using a spare prop from a Roden Fokker Dr.i kit - its shaped very close to a Hardman prop used on the Tommy. Made the prop hub. Working on some rigging assemblies in between painting the national insignias...
(https://i.postimg.cc/5ydpTMYR/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-116.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
The US insignia adds some color to the plain scheme.
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Oh, now on can start to guess the color scheme.
My 48 resin kit offers the complete green and a alu/grey layout. So let's see, what we will see here.
Cheers,
Frank
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An aluminum and gray scheme? Was that a post-war scheme?
After the war the surplus planes were sold to many civilians and were painted all sorts of colors.
-
Excellent work on spraying the roundels and stars! Aluminum and grey, Maybe Franks scheme is from the 1932 re make of The Dawn Patrol 8)
RAGIII
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No Ken and Rick, according to the kit manual it is "Navy 1918", in alu and FS36622:
(https://www.cmkkits.com/res/archive/022/002313.jpg)
For all 4 pages of the manual see here:
https://www.cmkkits.com/en/aircraft/thomas-morse-s-4c-scout/
I have not checked other sources for confirmation, but it looks interesting.
Cheers,
Frank
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I know the Navy had a few float versions, but I've never seen a picture of this version. A more interesting scheme than the all-khaki Army trainers.
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Looking good Ken, your masks have worked out beautifully. I'm liking the wing colour very much. Can't comment on the overall scheme due to absence of knowledge but I'm enjoying this build very much.
Richie
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Nice work on those wings Ken :)
Terri
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Thanks for looking in and commenting Richie and Terri.
The Silhouette cutter and paint masks have been working well. I am using photo frisket film for masking, which is a bit stiff and can lift up off of curved surfaces in spots, making it necessary for some touch ups.
I'm currently working on the wing details around the strut mounting points. Soon I'll be test fitting the wings.
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Ken I had problems with Friskett masking film too, I've had more success with Greenstik materials stencil masking film. It is a green colour, gery similar to Montex masks so much easier to see what you are doing.
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A small update...
A couple of details for the wings. I have made the torsion bars that protrude from the wings, primered. The lower half will be glued into the top wing before mounting.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9XZNjfcQ/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-117.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I had these PE turnbuckles and wanted to find a way to improve them for use. I applied thick CA to the middle part that is supposed to be round. Later colored them with permanent markers. I think they will work out fine in less visible places. The Gaspatch resin turnbuckles are more consistently shaped and have sharper detail, so they will be used in very visible places.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpKsRbVn/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-120.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Mounted some fittings for rigging later.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PrM3PFpG/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-118.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Mounted the lower wings. The front end will be put on after mounting the top wing and connecting the pushrods that activate the ailerons.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wTz4xdBc/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-119.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I'm beginning to see the end of this build now. One crucial test remains - fitting the upper wing. That's when I see if the struts and cabanes are the right length.
Thanks for looking in on this build.
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That looks fantastic Ken! I really am enjoying your build of this historic aircraft and tribute to your father. Very nice. The color and markings look very good, and your improvement of the PE turnbuckles is brilliant. You just taught me a new trick!
Coming along very nicely and nearing the finish line. Well Done!
Best regards,
Bob
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The Gaspatch resin turnbuckles are more consistently shaped and have sharper detail, so they will be used in very visible places.
Have you ever used the metal ones, so can you compare both?
In 1/48 I will stay as far as possible with the metal ones (appart from the new RAF wire terminals) because of robustness.
Now we can rig our biplanes in a race 8)
Cheers,
Frank
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Thanks for commenting, Bob.
Frank, no, I have never used the metal turnbuckles. I have seen closeup pictures of them and it appears the surface finish is very rough. Pictures can deceive, however. When I need more turnbuckles, I will likely order some metal ones to try out.
Prop is almost ready to go.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7LWCZDMB/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-121.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Awesome work!
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Very good work on this Ken. The propellor is super indeed.
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She is really shaping up now Ken , neat idea on the use of PE turn buckles .
Terri
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I forgot to take a picture of the PE turnbuckles to show how they look. Without magnification, its very difficult to tell they are PE. I used them around the cabanes.
Got the wing rigging done. I guess you finished before me, Frank. In my defense, both the flying wires and landing wires are doubles!
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZKXDSxmd/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-122.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pf3R6kFK/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-123.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rFDY3YBT/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-124.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Numerous small details to install yet (like the engine). Hopefully will be finished in a week.
Thanks for stopping by Terri, Stephen, and Jeroen.
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The securing if the control wires on the tail plane is crazy :D
I have to add a securing rope to the back on the Dolpin, but this triangle solution here is very safe. But they didn't want to leave anything to chance!
I Just checked the Windsock Datafile 166, the turnbuckles on the tail plane looks a bit oversized. Here you could take advance of your big scale and use the smaller 1/48 turnbuckles. I thought about that today: The new RAF terminals would be nice in smaller size on the Dolphin tail, but there is no 1/72 solution. For a 1/32 Dolphin I would use the 1/32 ones for the wings and the 1/48 size for the tail.
Cheers,
Frank
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WOW! That is really incredible Modeling and rigging! For Nostalgia sake I would love to see one of these in Errol Flynns 1931 Dawn Patrol Markings! Maybe someday someone will do a kit ;D Until then I will use yours to enjoy My Memories of the Movie that got Me hooked on WW1!
RAGIII
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That Tommy is looking Great!. If someone ever makes markings for a Dawn Patrol Tommy, then someone will need to do a David Niven in his PJs figure to go with it.
sp
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The 'torsion bars' - aren't they just levers like the Nieuports have? They're weird shape because there is a hole in them to pass around a spar. I think...
Richard
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Thanks for the comments.
I had planned to use Gaspatch metal 1/48 turnbuckles on the tail, but the eyelets in the turnbuckles were too small for my rigging line. I tried to drill them out, but my drill bits kept breaking! I broke about 3 of them. I then resorted to using what I had. It seems manufacturers still make things oversize for some reason.
Yes, Richard. There are curved rods going above and below the rear wing spar. The rods were not installed in these pictures. I wanted to rig before installing them. They are installed now allowing the firewall, engine, and cowling to be installed next.
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I had planned to use Gaspatch metal 1/48 turnbuckles on the tail, but the eyelets in the turnbuckles were too small for my rigging line.
I found thin fishing lines on ebay and got some small pieces for trying. Then I ordered some meters of a a useful size, but so I don't know the trade name.
But it fits on the 1/48 turnbuckles and I can get this twice though 0.4mm brass pipes.
I tried to drill them out, but my drill bits kept breaking! I broke about 3 of them.
Oops! :( Yep, this stuff is hard, but you cannot bend it - it breaks easily then.
Sometime there is something like moulding sand in the eyelets. I clean this with a needle, but never with a drill after lost one.
Anyway, your scout looks great. Everyone who sees the model will think you used a kit! :D
Cheers,
Frank
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Engine gluing day.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L5rTVJWY/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-126.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Here's a better look at the PE turnbuckles.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzSTCRY1/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-128.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I thought this was an interesting shot with a lot of detail.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tCxD4z1h/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-129.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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You've made those turnbuckles look great, I really like that idea. What a great build this is.
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This is a really lovely build, Ken
Richard
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Ken, she's a beauty! Outstanding modeling here. That last shot reminds me of something full-size hanging in the Smithsonian Aerospace Museum (except for that apparently enormous paint rack in the background ;)). Your work has infused this model with realism. Very well done.
Best regards,
Bob
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Without the paint bottles in background it could also be a RC flying model, looks so lovely real!
Cheers,
Frank
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That rigging looks really sharp Ken , well done !
Terri
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Brilliant!
RAGIII
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Thanks for all the comments, everyone. With just a few more details to go, this should be finished soon.
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Just dropped in again Ken, and I am really pleased that I did! The PE turnbuckles have worked very well, and the engine detail is super.
Stephen.
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Thanks for stopping by, Stephen. And thanks for the complements.
Have you set your DH.1a aside for a while? It was coming along beautifully.
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One of last details to be made was the air venturi for the airspeed indicator. Seemed to be a dicey prospect, but I was easier than I expected.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HWXXby55/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-130.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Installed on one of the wing struts.
(https://i.postimg.cc/15S6B3cd/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-131.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I'm working on the last detail - the cowling latches.
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Simply incredible build. That Venturi detail is amazing!
RAGIII
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That Venturi detail is amazing!
... and working for sure! :o
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That Venturi detail is amazing!
... and working for sure! :o
Yes I am sure that when this one is flown it will give a true reading of AS.
Stephen.
PS I have made two postings in two days on the DH 1A - got bogged down with ribs and things.
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that rigging is simply amazing as is the rest of the build 8)
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The last detail to be made - the cowling latches
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjWhzZLF/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-132.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
With the tail finally rigged and a few things pin washed, its done!
Will post some pictures in the completed sub forum soon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BZ70NCzy/Thomas-Morse-S4-C-133.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Thanks to all that followed along and posted.
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Those catches made me smile, lovely work Ken
Richard
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This is a magnificent example of scratch building Ken. Your details are very well rendered and bring this model to life. Outstanding work! ;D I am thoroughly enjoying it!
Best regards,
Bob
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Fill up with fuel, start the engine and fly away - so real!
Cheers,
Frank
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What a great build with a lovely back story. Your Dad would be very happy to see the plans he saved turned into such a beautiful model. Looking forward to seeing more pictures
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Thanks for the comments, guys, and for following along all this time.
I hope those who visited the thread were able to pick up some tips they can use.
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I must say this is one of the Nicest scratch built bi planes I have seen! Tremendous work in all aspects!
RAGIII
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I hope those who visited the thread were able to pick up some tips they can use.
You bet! There is a lot to be learned for me :)
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I hope those who visited the thread were able to pick up some tips they can use.
You bet! There is a lot to be learned for me :)
Same here!