forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
Forum Archive Storage => Des Delatorre International Memorial Group Build => Topic started by: lone modeller on April 13, 2019, 08:47:09 AM
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Evening All,
I am entering this group build in the hope that I will be able to complete this by the deadline, even though we are already a couple of months into the build. Life is not being very conducive to modelling at present and does not look like it is going to change in the near future, but even if I do not make the deadline, I will continue and finish it on another part of this site. Many of you will be aware that I have already dedicated another model to Des' memory, but could not enter it to this GB because I had already started it. This will be my second tribute to a truly great modeller.
If you do not know what the Caproni Ca 5 looked like here are a couple of links:
https://www.alamy.com/italian-caproni-ca5-bomber-plane-ww1-image66158621.html
https://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/SmithGaryL/8921.htm
It was a trimotor bomber designed in 1917 to replace the successful Caproni Ca 3 which was used by the Italians to bomb targets in Austria. This required the aircraft to fly long distances including over the Alps, so a third engine was considerd to be desirable in case one of them malfunctioned on the long flights. Unfortunately the engines chosen to power the Ca 5 were not particularly reliable, so although the airframe was sound, the aircraft was rather less so and the Ca 3 soldiered on beside its successor to the end of the war. However the type remained in service until the early 1920's and was used by the Americans.
I cannot find any kit of this machine which makes it an ideal subject for a scratch build to Des' memory. Interesting features of the type include the engines, triple tail unit, twin booms a platform for the rear gunner above the engine, and double wheeled undercarriage: markings seem to have been relatively straightforward too so can be easily made at home.
There is some reference material on this type - certainly enough to be able to make a reasonably accurate model, although as usual with WW1 types, colours are interpreted in different ways in the sources.
I have assembled my kit: styrene sheet of various thicknesses, strip, rod, wood, and other materials as needed as the build progresses. I have started by marking up the fuselage nacelle on a block of wood and am ready to start carving:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7815/32648978937_7092ae8b98_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RK5xXX)
and I have cut some styrene sheet for the wings. These are quite thick so to get the thickness and aerofoil section I am trying out an idea. I have cut a piece of 30 thou card which has been bent in hot water and laminated this with a strip of 20 thou card which was laid over the top. The 30 thou strip was wide enough to extend to the rear spar, and then a strip of 20 thou card and 10 thou card was laid along the trailing edge of the 30 thou card. Here are the strips before they were glued together:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7818/47538477202_60942620f9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2fqP84h)
The underside will be sanded and filled to give the aerofoil section and any joints smoothed over with filler: hopefully if there are any remaining marks these will not be visible because they will be under the wings. Finally I have cut some wood ready to be carved into propellors:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7916/32648979017_b232e07489_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RK5xZk)
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Man, Stephen...I can't wait to see this one shape up! Lovely choice...
Cheers,
Dan
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All the best to you Stephen, great subject that I am sure Des is smiling down on.
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Looking forward on following along on this one . Great subject matter !
Terri
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Great subject, wish you all the best in this challanging build.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Great choice of subject Stephen. As always I will follow your build closely! Terrific start
RAGIII
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Good to see another scratchbuild. Looks to be an ambitious project.
I'm interested in seeing how the wing construction works out.
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Evening All,
Thank you Dan, Juan, Terri, Giuseppe, Rick and Ken for your encouraging comments. I will try to do my best to get this finished on time but if the last couple of weeks are a portent I may not be able to do so because lttle progress has been made as life has got in the way and really slowed me down. However I have managed to complete one wing after much sanding, filling, sanding, more filling, more sanding....you get the idea I am sure.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32772822747_b1d6fbbf3e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RW2hq4)
I know that this is not the most exciting photo of a wing but I cannot get one to show just how smooth the surface is. However it does show that I have succeeded in getting the curvature right. Anyway I have got to do all of this again because like all true aeroplanes, this one had TWO wings!
I have also carved the fuselage nacelle and moulded and cut out the halves. I just wanted to be able to have something to show for a lot of work and I could carve this while I was waiting for filler on the wing to dry out. Here are the moulds for the nacelle - old fashioned push/plunge moulding I am afraid - none of that super-high-tech vacuform stuff from me!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32772822497_681bcd4d7b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RW2hkK)
And here are the two halves with the male mould:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32772822567_113669c5a0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RW2hmX)
There will be quite a lot to do on these because there is a large area of the interior which will be visible - the only problem is that there is very little published on what it all looked like, so I am going to base the details on the earlier Ca 3 and use modeller's license for the rest! There were also cooling gills on the nose and a radiator in the front end, plus the rear gunner's position - quite enough to be getting on with....when life permits.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Your work is looking excellent to date. I am sure you will do an outstanding job in Imagineering the interior 8)
RAGIII
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OMG!
:-O
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Hello Stephen
You don't half pick em. A Caproni Ca 5!! This is going to look awesome.
Alan.
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excellent, Stephen
(http://caproni02.jpg)
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Evening All,
Thanks Rick, Andonio, Alan and Ermeio for your encouraging comments: I really appreciate your support. Thank you too Ermeio for the very interesting photograph of a Ca 5 - I have not seen this and it shows parts of the structure which I had guessed would be there, although I did not know the exact details of course.
I have based my interior on the photograph supplied by Ermeio and the Ca 3 and other contemporary large aircraft: I do not claim full authenticity for this part but then I doubt whether anyone else can. In any event most of what I have added will be barely seen but at least there is something in the cockpits.
The cockpit interior for the pilots was scratched from card and the floor was modelled as slats rather than a solid floor. The control wheels were mde from rod and a simple control console made with throttles. Similarly the rear gunner's position was basic - a seat and floor:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47805987752_a6b38ca637_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2fQsbC9)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33980987228_a06c46692b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TLMrC9)
Unfortunately I forgot to photograph the interior of the fuselage sides to show the structure which I had made from 10 x 20 thou strip and some thin rod. Some of the detail in the rear cockpit can just about be seen in one of the photos below. The fuselage is now closed and looks like this:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33980987178_c0e647573c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TLMrBh)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47805987342_9d7cc57301_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2fQsbv5)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33980986928_2c7d25a799_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TLMrwY)
The next step will be to add the gun ring to the nose position and the radiator and cooling gills to the nose area.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Wow, what an ambitious project, Stephen. Fingers crossed.
And great work so far!
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Fine progress, Stephen. Good detail for such a small scale.
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Looking awesome. Love the interior!
RAGIII
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Hi!
Really great project, I will follow next steps!
The first link you posted shows one of the two Ca.5 used by the "1a Squadriglia Navale Siluranti Aeree" (First Naval Squadron Aerial Torpedoes), commanded by the famous poet/warrior Gabriele D'Annunzio. The Squadron was based in Venice and started its career equipped only with two Ca.3 and five pilots.
Under the cabin in the photo there is the shield with the "Sufficit animus" motto created by D'Annunzio himself.
Cheers,
Roberto
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Good progress with interiors, I agree with your idea about similarity in layout and fittings with the Ca3 cockpit. Looking forward for your next steps.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Evening All,
Many thakns Prez, p9o1rische,Rick and Giuseppe for the very encouraging comments: I really appreciate you people who drop by and leave such positive comments.
Roberto: I did know that the photo to which you refer was of a torpedo bomber, but I did not know which unit the aircraft belonged to, nor did I know about the squadron commander. Thank you for the information: it is truly surprising what one can learn from others simply by building a model!
I have been working on the fuselage nacelle - trying to make a decent gun ring on the nose and add some radiator cooling vents around the front end. The Ca 5 was a trimotor like the earlier Ca 3, which presented the designers with the problem of how to cool the pusher engine at the rear of the fuselage nacelle. The answer was to mount a radiator in the extreme front of the nose and pump the cooling water from the engine to the nose and back again. It does not require a degree in mechanical or thermal engineering to work out that this was not an optimal solution: the type was not a success in part because of the overheating problems associated with the engine mounted in the fuselage. However that may have been I still had to add the coolig gills to the fuselage (and will have to add more later to the booms when I get around to making them). I decided that if I cut and glued strips of 10 x 20 thou strip in the right places and then used a file and glasspaper to shape them I might just get away with something resembling said gills:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47928980836_d10583867e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g2jyby)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47928969797_0e71f2a2ee_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g2juUe)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47929001911_6822b82685_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g2jErV)
I have also built up the nose for the front gunners gun ring with a plastic disc which was cut and filed to fit the nose position. Filler did the rest: you can also see the filler around various parts of the fuselage mouldings where trimming and small errors needed correction. When all is primed I am hoping that the blemishes will disappear.... we will see.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47929001846_c17766688d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g2jEqN)
I decided to apply more to 10 x 30 thou strip and add the ribs to the wings. For those who may not know of this technique (and I am constantly asked about this at model club open days), here is a brief description:
I mark the positions of the ribs with a pencil on the wings, tail surfaces, ailerons, elevators, rudders, etc as appropriate. In this case I am using 10 x 30 strip because this was a large aircraft and the ribs would accordingly have been wider. On smaller aircraft I use 10 x 20 thou strip, and on larger scale aircraft I use larger strip suitable for the scale.
I cut lengths of strip which are longer than the chord of the surface to be covered. I apply liquid cement liberally along the pencil line and quicly lay a strip directly on to the line and gently press it down with the end of a nail file of other suitable hard, flat tool.
When all of the strips have been applied and the glue allowed enough time to dry I check each strip by trying to push it gently sideways. If any section of strip have not adhered properly I apply more cement to the areas which have not stuck down.
When the cement is dry and all the ribs are firmly in place I cut off the ends of the strips with a sharp scalpe and gently rub them along their lengths with fine grade glass paper to take off the sharp edges and give them a rounded cross profile. Finally a couple of coats of primer ensure that any small gaps or blemishes disappear.
This photo shows some of the strip being applied to the lower wing and one of the ailerons: the yellowish strip will be under the fuselage nacelle so if it is visible later the bright white plastic surface will not show.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47929014426_0be05cf9a8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g2jJaG)
Waiting for liquid cement to dry can be tedious so I started to build one of the engines (there will be three eventually). The engines were 6 cylinder Fiat A 12 inlines developing between 200 and 300 horse power on the early variants: later machines had Fiat Isotta or Liberty engines fitted. The differences between the original and later Fiat engines are not really apparant in this scale so I made one using plastic rod of different diameters, strip and bits of sheet - some of the latter was laminated to make the engine block/sump. The components look like this when laid out:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47928949626_8cfeff2cac_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g2joUs)
and like this when glued together and painted:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47928934597_f5ae8c53e2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g2jjrk)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47928960052_82b6f459d6_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g2js1d)
Only two more of those to make now, but at least I know how to do it so they should not take too long..
The next update will be delayed as unfortunately I have to go on my travels (again) for a couple of weeks. But if you have been, thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Awesome progress! The fuselage cooling vents and gun ring are looking terrific!
RAGIII
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Hi Stephen!
Good news for my eyes to see your steps! If you learn something trough my infos, for sure I'm learning trough your high level of scratchbuilding!
The photo of the "torpedo" Ca.5 was one of the few with a Squadriglia insignia. Designed to carry two torpedoes, in reality they made few training flights with only one with no success.
The fact that you are building Fiat A.12 means that you decided what Ca.5 you choose to build?
Some years ago I found that Ardpol sells Fiat A.10 in resin in 1/72nd scale, I bought three for my old Ca.3 Meikraft kit still to build...
Cheers!
Roberto
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Fantastic scratch building!
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Hi Stephen!
Yesterday I was in our Air Force Museum located near Rome. Entering first hangar, dedicated to WWI, they had a Fiat A.12. I shooted some photos that I add here, hope useful!
Cheers!
Roberto
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Second photo....
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Third
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Evening All,
Thanks Rick, Roberto and Gazza for the kind comments: I am sorry to be late in replying but I appreciate them very much. Special thanks to Roberto for the superb photos of the Fiat engine which are very useful.
I have been much delayed in preparing this next stage of construction for a variety of reasons, but here are the latest steps.
The aircraft had twin booms with tractor engines - as the booms were almost square in cross section they were reletively easy to cut out from 30 thou card.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48104840443_c5a580da17_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghRT7K)
The sides of the booms had air cooling vents for the engines so these were added and shaped from 10 x 20 thou strip as described for the nacelle above:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48104905952_b203a9f66a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghSdAd)
The bottom surface of the booms has a marked curve as can be seen in the image above, so to make the card fit better I held the blade of a pair of scissors on the under surface of the card, pushed on the upper surface with my thumb and pulled the card between my thumb and the scissor blade. This was repeated several times until the card was sufficiently curved to match the required shape. I used strips of scrap card to act as supports along the inside edges of the corners and ran liquid Revell Contacta glue along the joints for the initial adhesion, reinforced with liquid cement where necessary. Two small squares cut from scrap card were used inside the booms to help reinforce and keep them square:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48104790316_88c598ab17_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghRCdu)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48104840323_f94fd0d98e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghRT5F)
The top of the boom behind the engine had a curved surface so I moulded these from 30 thou card. At the same time I moulded the rounded fronts in the same way: the latter will be added later.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48104840273_721a4b8898_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ghRT4P)
I hope that the next update will not take quite so long i.e. I am hoping that life will be a little quieter in the near future!
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Really nice work so far Stephen ;)
Terri
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The booms and vents look great as do the molded boom parts!
RAGIII
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Nice progress, Stephen. Looking forward to the next update.
If I need curved plastic card, I pull it across the edge of a table to make the curl.
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Hi!
Great work on the booms, you made simple what's not!
I found another shot of the Naval Ca.5. You may see frontal radiator for the central engine and "Nazario Sauro", dedicated to one of our Carabinieri's hero (dedication of the plane made by D'Annunzio himself again).
You may note also the single attachment for the lonely torpedo.
Bye!
Roberto
P.S.: What's the trick to insert big photo in the post? Because the one in the attachment need to be so little! I have the big version in my files...
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Evening All,
Thanks Terri, Rick, Ken and Roberto for your kind comments - I much appreciate them.
Ken: I used a scissor blade because my wife uses the same to make wrapping ribbons curl, and my late mother used to do the same. I had not thought of using the table edge but the principle is the same of course.
Roberto: thank you for the photo - never mind the size I can still see the details to which you refer. I will not be making the torpedo carrier variant as this model is already taking much longer than planned. I have another aircraft in mind based on an illustration in Munson's Bombers 1914-1919, but your photos and other details have been of great help and I really appreciate them.
The difference between scratch building and kit building is that for the former the modeller has to make the parts - after that it is just another assembly job. Making the parts can take a little while though and usually I make them as I need them so that they do not lie around and get lost or damaged. For this model I seem to have made most of the parts before I start any major assemblies (fuselage nacelle, booms and engines excepted). This seems to have come about because I have simply not had the time to sit and do some modelling for more than one or two isolated sessions recently: making/shaping parts has been the only sensible thing to do.
I assembled the two remaining engines, and carved three propellors from wood (at the rate of one per evening - no more time at the moment!)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48212835787_a5ff9fefff_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gsponr)
I also made up the eight wheels from discs of 60 thou card with 80 thou rod. I wound the rod around a large paintbrush handle and held one end with a pair of pliers and the other with my fingers. Then I plunged the rod into boiling water for a few seconds. The diameter of the paintbrush handle was slightly smaller than the rim of the disc: this means that the rod has to be pulled outwards to sit tightly around the disc - a small amout of liquid cement holds the tyre in place and any small gaps can be easily filled. Painted they will easily pass muster:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48212835912_afc07e26e0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gspopA)
I have also added the curved tops to the booms and made some other odds and ends including struts so the parts are beginning to look like a conventional kit:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48212780991_a5ff9fefff_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gsp75F)
The next step will be to start assembling the nacelle and booms to the lower wing, adding the fronts of the booms and then fitting the boom engines and radiators (they are still to be made), so hopefully I can start to see an aeroplane beginning to emerge. Until next time....
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Stephen, as always, I am utterly blown away by your artistry and craftsmanship! You are a true master and this is going to be another one of your masterpieces. I have to say, I am envious of your talents.
Cheers,
Bud
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Stephen, you made a great progress! The prepared parts are looking very promising :-*
I hope you will manage to colorize all and plug it together in time 8)
Good luck!
Cheers,
Frank
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Significant progress, Stephen! Lookin' good.
I am finding that the major parts are needed early because they fit together themselves and the other details are just hung on them. Alignment of these parts is important.
Though this is small scale, it is an ambitious project.
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Looks good, one question is it the picture or does the top wing have a bow in the leading edge? This could present problems when assembling the parts. Or is it meant to be bowed?
Regards Ron
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Stephen, as always, I am utterly blown away by your artistry and craftsmanship! You are a true master and this is going to be another one of your masterpieces. I have to say, I am envious of your talents.
Cheers,
Bud
My Amigo has said it all Stephen!
RAGIII
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Moving along well so far and she is starting to take shape wonderfully :)
Terri
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Hi Stephen!
Your forward steps are really beautiful!
I have only a doubt: from my pc it seems that the three handcarved props had same direction of blade. If I'm right, take care by the fact that the central one is for a pusher engine and needs reversed blade. This is a common mistake of everyone try to build three engined Capronis. The old Meikraft 1/72nd scale of the Ca. 3 had three identical airscrews...wrong.
Congrats for the rest!
Roberto
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Great progress, as almost all the main components look ready. Following along.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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Evening All,
My sincere thanks to all who have dropped by and looked in and especially to those who have left such encouraging comments: Bud, Frank, p9o1rische, Ron, Rick, Terri, Roberto and Giuseppe, they are very much appreciated.
Roberto - many thanks for pointing out that the pusher propellor should be reversed from the tractors: I have not corrected it yet but will do so later!
Following on from the last build post I have manged to put the nacelle and booms on to the lower wing and add some other details. In a week this has started to look like an aeroplane.
First up was to cement the fuselage nacelle to the lower wing. The alignment laterally and horizontally needs to be accurate, so to get the former right I laid the wing on a plan and then adjusted the nacelle sideways until it was true. To get the horizontal line correct I resorted to one of my master jigs: in this case a piece of sprue with which I stir my enamel paints placed on some lengths of plastic card: simple, cheap and completely effective - and the bonus is that the parts are ready to hand and easily stored!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274146856_1e8749d14f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxPC1Q)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274146736_3f807a1e34_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxPBYL)
A small amount of filler was used along the joint but I was very pleased with how little was needed in the end. With the nacelle in place the booms could follow: I used the same method as per the nacelle by laying the wing over the plans and aligning the booms on the plan. I cemented both booms at the same time and to ensure that they were properly parallel I employed another jig at the rear - also from simple flexible materials! To stop the open ends at the front splaying outwards I used a pair of hair clips to keep them correctly aligned:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274228902_e5bbf58445_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxQ3pq)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274228832_62d83c7472_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxQ3od)
Once again a little filler was required to clean up the joints but as these images show, not very much was required:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274228767_307ae1937a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxQ3n6)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274145976_2c90ef21ac_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxPBKE)
Now I could put the front panels which I had already moulded on to the booms, followed by the radiators (cut from 60 thou card and scribed), and finally the engines. The latter are mounted on pieces of 60thou card to hold them at the correct level in the nacelle:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274228667_5cd6bacc56_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxQ3kn)
When I had installed the engine in the rear of the nacelle, I put the rear horizontal tail surface into place as this helps to keep the entire structure rigid. It will also make painting easier. The white strip in front of the assembly is the top wing::
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274146351_c953fa32da_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxPBS8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274228537_f7be37c46b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxQ3i8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274228477_fc8bc0cce9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxQ3h6)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274146101_b40d8a5920_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxPBMP)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48274145896_8189442585_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gxPBJh)
Next painting and decorating.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Terrific progress Stephen! It is looking More awesome with each update!
RAGIII
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Man , that is looking mighty fine so far :)
Terri
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Lots of progress made, Terri. It's coming together nicely.
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Looks amazing Stephen, very big even at this scale.
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Really amazing!
Simple system to made general alignement but really effective!
The plans that you used for alignement comes from?
I'm really curious too for the original example that you choose to represent!
Many compliments!
Roberto
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Really beautiful shape. the Caproni looks better and better with each update. Perfect tribute for Des.
Bye,
Manni
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Speechless over here...simply amazing!
Dan
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Stephen, what a beautiful model - so elegant!
Cheers,
Frank
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Evening All,
Thank you so much Rick, Terri, Ken, Juan, Roberto, Manni, Dan and Frank for your generous comments I really appreciate comments from modellers who regularly display huge talent on this site.
Roberto: the plans which I am using came from the following source: http://drawingdatabase.com/caproni-ca-5/ There seem to be several sites that have this particular 3 view diagram.
The colour scheme which I have used is based on an illustration in K. Munson's Bombers 1914 - 1919, p. 82-83. I chose this subject almost at random as I wanted to make something larger than a single engined machine and decided that as I do not have any Italian aircraft in my collection, and as far as I am aware there is no kit of this aircraft in God's Own Scale, this would be a suitable subject.
Stephen.
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Evening All,
Progress has been slow recently - once again life has conspired to prevent me from doing much lately, but I have now managed to paint and decorate the model. I used acrylics for the main components and based the camouflage on a photograph of a Ca 5 in flight and the drawing in Munson's Bombers 1914 - 1919. The serial on the nose was made from an old transfer sheet that I have had for more years than I care to remember - fortunately they showed no sign of deterioration despite their age. The roundels and rudder stripes were hand painted.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48389446031_b8cc135353_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ1yrD)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48389584682_9bbeee2ffa_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ2gEb)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48389584502_f553489a52_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ2gB5)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48389445771_a659f06969_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ1yna)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48389584737_f953fc5129_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ2gF8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48389445661_c91d6ddf30_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ1ykg)
I am afraid that the lack of progress in the last couple of weeks and knowing what awaits in the near future means that I will not be able to finish this in time for the end of the GB, so I am going to have to ask Dave to move this to the Scratch builds section of this site.
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Some significant progress, Stephen.
I wouldn't rush it just to get it done for the group build.
Group build glory is temporary. Completed model glory is forever. (sort of)
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This is a magnificent build Stephen, it's looking great with some paint on!
Cheers,
BC
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Stephen , you did a awesome job on hand painting the camo . I have done this type on WW 2 subjects and it is time consuming , well done sir ! :)
Terri
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Sorry for not commenting earlier Stephen. Such an ambitious project and beautifully rendered at a tiny scale. Missing the deadline for the GB ain't a big deal and certainly doesn't take away from an incredible build by you to date.
Cheers
Alistair
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Stephen...
This one is so awesome. Worth the wait and to take your time. Can't wait to see it all done at some point!
Dan
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Looking great Stephen, like what you are doing.
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Really Looking Fantastic Stephen! That has to be one of the coolest camo schemes from WW1 and you have done it beautifully!
RAGIII
PS: I will certainly continue to follow once the thread is transferred!!
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Excellent, stephen
The colours are most convincing
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Stephen,
I take my hat off to you - this has been an awesome scratch build thus far.
Scratch building is probably most difficult part of our hobby, so with your obvious skills, we can all expect a great model when it's finished,
Mike
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Evening All,
My thanks to all of you who have dropped by and left kind and encouraging comments - I really appreciate them all.
I have started on the fun bit, ie. putting in some of the struts ready to mount the top wing. I learned a long time ago that trying to fit upper wings on to multiple struts requires a bit of planning, and that the wrong way to do it is to try to fix all of the struts into one wing and then attach the other: that is the direct road to a mess or worse. Instead I try to attach the outermost pairs of struts on the wings and if the wing is big, (as in this case), one or two inner ones. This way the individual struts can be easily aligned to fit their respective holes if necessary, and sufficient support is provided to make a strong structure which can be gently handled while the remaining struts are inserted one at a time. It also reduces mess, (ie glue all over wing surfaces), damaged paintwork, bad language and the risk of high blood pressure. In other words it works with few, if any, problems....
I am going to rig this monster with clear thread because there are too many attachment points in difficult places for the rigging for me to be able to use rolled copper wire. Thread will also have the advantage of strengthening the completed structure. However before I started to add the struts I put on the pipe from the nacelle engine to the nose radiator on the port (left) side of the fuselage: this was a piece of 30 thou rod bent to shape and attached to the top rear of the engine block. Now I could drill out the holes in the fuselage and insert the threads for the rigging of the cabane struts and the inner wing bays. Next I dry fitted the forward innermost bay struts which were inserted within the engine boom just behind the radiators:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48447799826_e0a59f24af_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gPaCZy)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48447799856_ec70866d99_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gPaD15)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48447799896_030fc508d5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gPaD1L)
Having decided that they were in the correct position a dab of glue on one end and a rapid insertion into place followed. Next the four outermost wing struts were glued to the lower wing and the assembly inverted and gently lowered on to the underside of the top wing. A rapid assembly jig ensured that the two wings were correctly aligned and the model supported while the struts dried out overnight:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48447799781_c3f5a55a4b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gPaCYM)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48447960537_168d57c97b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gPbsLr)
In the morning the jig could be carefully dismantled and the assembly turned back to a normal upright position ready for the addition of the remaining struts. That procedure will follow in due course and the results shown on a later post, but for now this is how the model stands:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48447960512_0992840c0c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gPbsL1)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48447960642_3fe6d50763_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gPbsNf)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48447960572_75fdba4393_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gPbsM3)
If you have been, thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Sorry for late commenting, you make this masterfully and your Caproni is becaming really beautiful.
Ciao
Giuseppe
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I've only just seen the pics of your colour scheme - you've done a brilliant job there!
And I'm very familiar with it from the Munson book, I have all of that series, very heavily thumbed, especially while I've been speculating about the kits we needed to see in injected plastic. And a large Caproni is near the top of my personal list, and here you are making an excellent case for it :)
Cheers
Mark
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Evening All,
Thanks Guiseppe and Mark for dropping by and leaving your kind comments.
There is not too much to show for my recent efforts, but I have rigged the outer wing bays and the bays between the engines and fuselage nacelle: this takes more time than seems reasonable sometimes, but I think that it is easier on a model of this size to rig some of it before carrying on with further details. There will still be more rigging to add to the wings, but that will be finished at a later stage because otherwise it could be easily damaged:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48505210722_f45db4912e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gUeTfA)
The observant among you will have seem two white bits sticking up from the lower wing undersurface - they are the undercarriage legs. They were made from 60 thou card for the large sections, 30 x 40 card for the supports and 30 thou rod for the struts:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48505210847_956e6a3990_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gUeThK)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48505210767_a14df81571_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gUeTgn)
The wheels were mounted in pairs on each side of the axles - making eight in total. These are already ready to fit but again I will not be doing so until later to stop me from accidentally breaking them off while handling the model.
I have also started to make the parts for the rear gunner's platform - this was mounted above the pusher engine in a manner similar to the Ca III. These are the parts cut from card and rod. The rings were cut from 20 thou card using a pair of dividers to score the plastic - a method I first used when I built Frog Vimy in 1978:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48505210687_fac3ffe86d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gUeTeZ)
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Sorry I missed your last update so will just comment on both here. Looks great as a biplane and the rigging is superb! Terrific job on the gunners platform parts as always!
RAGIII
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Hi!
Rigging this "monster" is a model inside a model. Very well done!!
I saw the code 14610 on the nose, did you find a photo of the original one? It's really new to me.
Fantastic works!
Roberto
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Rick: many thanks for dropping by and leaving your comment - much appreciated.
Roberto: the code is 41610. I found this is Munson's Bombers 1914-1919 p 82-83. The only information given is that it was of the Corpo Aeronautica Militare which is not very helpful! I have found several photographs of different machines on the net but not one of this particular aircraft.
Stephen.
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Hi Stephen,
when I saw the serial on the nose (yes, 41610, sorry!) I started a search in the web, so I came across the three sides color profile in "Bombers". Sincerely, this is an old book and many of the color profiles are out-of-date. Again, take it as references (apart from measures of the aircrafts) is an high risk to make something wrong. Of course, you decide the fate of your model, but scratchbuilding this jewel in my opinion deserve better treatment for final "dress".
My doubts are about the roundels instead of color sections underside of wings and the camo over the wings and fuselages. There was no fixed rules, some of them are comouflaged and some not. Only original photos can say the truth.
"Corpo Aeronautica Militare" means...nothing! The real name was "Aviazione del Regio Esercito" (Aviation of the Royal Army).
Cheers!
Roberto
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Thanks for the comments Roberto. I know that some Ca 5 wings and upper fuselage surfaces were camouflaged with the green mottle because they are clearly visible in photographs. I cannot be certain that 41610 was so coloured - I am taking a guess that it was. With reference to the underside markings on the wings, do you know when the colour sections were discontinued/replaced with roundels? I am aware that colour bands were used on the undersides of Italian aircraft in the early part of the Italian campaign, but I do not know when these were changed to roundels.
I am taking a risk with authenticity re-markings because I do not have enough modern sources to consult, and even then as you write, unless there are photographs or documents which can show otherwise, I am happy to assume that the machine which I am modelling is correct. This is a perennial problem with aircraft markings from this time (and later in some cases) - just what were the colours and individual markings of a given machine at a particular time? Even with photographs there is frequently room for interpretation....
Stephen.
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Hi Stephen!
We started the war with a simple "circle and bar" painted in black under the wings. This was ordered only for recognizing from the ground, there was official documents about that. Some of our "painter" misleading that and some of our planes had these symbols over the wings too (in the "Volandia" museum there is a Caproni 18 with these markings).
We changed with colored sections in 1916, again with official orders and regulations, of green on starboard and red on port side. Also if I saw color profiles and models with this, we NEVER USED white for the central sections.
This scheme was used until the end of war, and all the aeroplanes that came out from war service retained the colored sections. Coming back to roundels was slowly and involved the aircraft produced after the war or in the middle of building when war finished.
About your Ca.5, you choose a specific nose configuration. This is a limit if you want to change your subject. There are in internet some photos about Ca.5 used in Argentina or USA during a "selling mission" after the war that had your nose. Or the one in "ELTA" (serial 12042), the first meeting in 1920 in Amsterdam for the next Civil Companies future. I have something, [email protected] is my email address, if you need help.
Bye!
Roberto
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Hi Stephen,
Like the others, I applaud your Caproni mightily! Another tour de force of scratch building. Simply impressive...
Cheers,
Dan
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Hi Stephen,
Like the others, I applaud your Caproni mightily! Another tour de force of scratch building. Simply impressive...
Cheers,
Dan
My words exactly.
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Evening All,
Many thanks Dan and Prez for your kind remarks - I much appreciate them.
Roberto: I intend to leave the nose and markings as they are and will assume that this model represents a post-war machine as trying to make alterations at this stage would be very difficult. Indeed it would probably be easier to start again! However I am very grateful for the information which you have provided, especially about the markings of aircraft, because I for one know very little about this aspect of the subject. I have another Italian aircraft on my to do list and have a DataFile as a source but I may contact you for further advice if/when I get around to making it.
Well I have been rigging more of the wings - almost finished now, so once again a lot of time taken but little of photographic interest so we will move on to the items added which are more photogenic.
The radiators for the engine in the nacelle were mounted in the nose of the nacelle and on the forward cabane struts. Those on the struts have been fitted while I was rigging in this area:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48560355026_a5dea5ab40_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gZ7vJs)
In the above view you can also see the ends of the rigging wires which ran horizontally across the front struts with a second wire running vertically up the end struts. I drilled all of the struts so that I could pass a thread through them and inserted this first. Then I threaded a vertical wire starting at the top, passing it though the hole in the wing with the other bracing wire and exiting via the second hole down in the strut. I repeated this procedure for the lower of the vertical wires, in this case the upper strut hole was the starting point. To make the shallow V shape and represent the reinforced ends of the horizontal wires I pushed through a small piece of thin stretched sprue which sits alongside the horizontal wire: this was glued to the vertical wire and the strut. When the sprue - strut joint was dry I could gently pull the vertical wires taught and CA the ends before trimming them. In all a complex procedure which is difficult to explain and not much easier to accomplish! I just hope that this makes sense. A sane modeller would not have bothered because only anoraks would know about this arrangement anyway!
The second fiddly bit was the gun platform at the rear of the upper wing. Assembly was straightforward - fixing it to the model was rather less so, but I managed in the end:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48560492347_c982e85373_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gZ8dy4)
NB the gun ring has not been added yet - that will be put on later.
Finally I started to put on the rudders. There were three of these so I put the middle one on first because it is easier to work thet way - leaves more finger/tweezer room for the outer ones:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48560355211_1b52e490ed_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gZ7vMD)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48560354961_803015f163_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gZ7vHk)
Those pesky threads in the last photo will eventually become control wires - and I will be very happy indeed to put them in place as they are rarely under control at the moment, indeed it seems that much of the time they are out of control!
So if you have been, thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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As with all of your works Stephen, this is just mind boggling. You may have some reservations regarding the time period the subject carried this pattern however it's beautifully rendered as is the model itself. Great Build and craftsmanship of the tremendously impressive category we've come to expect from you. Wonderful!
Cheers,
Lance
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Excellent building, Stephen. The rigging is, indeed, very complex and you are solving the 'problems' very astutely. This model is really coming together.
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Outstanding rigging and the gun platform looks Terrific! As always your build is a joy to follow!
RAGIII
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Ok Stephen!
I will continue to follow your fantastic work!
Good forward steps!
Roberto
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Evening All,
Thanks Lance, Ken, Rick and Andy for your kind comments: these come from a group of very fine modellers so I greatly appreciate them.
I have spent the last few days finishing this beast - namely adding the two outer rudders and their respective control lines, the large struts which run from the top wing to the fuselage nose area, gun rings on the nose and rear platform, tail skids, propellors and main wheels. Some odds and ends of rigging were also completed and so the model is now finished.....just in time to be ready to start a new one in the Flying Boats and Floatplanes GB over on Britmodeller - a log will be posted here as usual.
In the meantime this is what the model looks like - more photos will be posted in the completed models section shortly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48630885427_97eda55910_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2h6kZXR)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48630734546_5804b585c7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2h6ke7s)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48630883597_b10d8998e9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2h6kZqi)
Thanks for looking.
Stephen.
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Excellent result, Stephen! That's quite a complicated subject you tackled and you must have used a couple miles of rigging line!
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Great to see this Beauty finished! Your scratch Building skills are awesome! Looks absolutely Fantastic!
RAGIII
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Excellent, a pleasure to see - it's great to look at, a cool design in an attractive scheme.
And you're flying the flag for 1:72 in magnificent fashion :)
Mark
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Stunning build Stephen, she's absolutely gorgeous!
Always good to see your builds completed to such a high standard.
Ian
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Dang, Stephen...another great effort. I really (REALLY) enjoyed watching this one come together. And you "Desinated" it by scratch building just like he would have done. Cool beans...
Dan
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Beautiful work, a wonderful job, and scratch built to boot!
Magnificent.
BC
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Great work, as usual!
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A scratch built wonder!
Well done!!
vB :)
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She is a beauty Stephen and a ture joy to follow long :)
Terri