forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: Greg Law on October 03, 2012, 08:22:24 AM

Title: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Greg Law on October 03, 2012, 08:22:24 AM
Can some one give me a hint on how to do the Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III finish as shown in the images on the Wingnut site? It appears to have a mottled finish.
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: WarrenD on October 03, 2012, 09:13:37 AM
What scale are you going to be working in Greg?  I have seen something similar to the tutorial done before, but in 1/72nd using a lead pencil. Good results IMHO.

Warren
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Greg Law on October 03, 2012, 12:39:02 PM
Thanks guys. I missed that tut. Must be going blind. Hand painting squiggles will be real easy for me. I just got to paint a straight line and I will get good squiggles.  ;)
The scale is 1/32.
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Des on October 03, 2012, 12:55:58 PM
The swirls I used on my Taube build are a different style of swirl to what is on the Eindeckers, but the process is the same. I first sprayed the metal cowlings with Humbrol Metal Cote Polished aluminium 27002, I then painted each individual swirl using a very fine tipped brush and Mr Metal Color Chrome/Silver, I still need to spray the entire section with a clear cote.

Des.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gf19-xM-sTY/UGuY7OISQBI/AAAAAAAAB3c/nJ6mObOX11M/s800/taube%2520x%2520138.jpg)
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Ian from Doncaster on October 03, 2012, 04:53:47 PM
I'm looking forward to see the reference pics when the EIII kit proper is released.  These days, a machined surface on metal looks like overlapping circles from the machine tooling - I wonder if this was the case in 1915 too?
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Ian from Doncaster on October 03, 2012, 09:00:59 PM
I like the swirls to be honest - the machined surfaces seem too regular in pattern IMHO.  I can see some experimentation coming on!
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Edo on October 03, 2012, 10:19:21 PM
this thread is quite interesting... (to say nothing that I'm waiting for a certain purcel from downunder to arrive... ;))
This is a pattern that it is often seen on Eindeckers... acually I like this best... does anyone have a clue on how to obtain it?

(http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af290/Edo0606/eiii.jpg)

ciao
Edo
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Des on October 03, 2012, 10:45:26 PM
Thanks Edo for the brilliant photo, how to replicate that pattern in 1:32 scale would be extremely difficult, it is such a small pattern. When I get my Eindecker I will have to do a bit of experimenting.

Des.
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: GHE on October 03, 2012, 11:57:48 PM
Messieurs !

The given pattern by WNW is definitively correct as I checked with Fokker E photos.
Using polishable metal paint (Gunze, Humbrol) one even may blend the two paints or by polishing non-polishable paint
via polishing cloth or Q-tip .
The other pattern shown and more often seen today is really awe-inspiring! Triple-Supa!!- for whom achieving this one!

 bizz bald, Gunther
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Ian from Doncaster on October 04, 2012, 12:45:27 AM
Edo's pic shows what I was trying to say - I have no idea how to paint that finish!
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: uncletony on October 04, 2012, 01:26:11 AM
My feeling is that the cowling in Edo's example photo is a bit overdone, in the same way that some Bugatti restorations tend to overdo the engine turning finish on their alloy bits. I think the actual pattern was a bit more random... and actually probably done with the equivalent of an angle grinder or what we call in the shop a "grass cookie" (flexible sanding pad on a rotary grinder) rather than engine turned...

(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/1e967e346819542b24e424f8b7646a21.jpg)
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: uncletony on October 04, 2012, 02:15:20 AM
Actually there are much better photos in the archive section of the WNW site (Duelist kit set) that show that the metal panels were definitely not decorated with engine turning but rather swirled with a hand held grinder. Anybody that has worked on autobody sheetmetal will recognize the effect immediately.

(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/ScreenShot2012-10-03at111355AM.png)
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: uncletony on October 04, 2012, 02:26:01 AM
More on engine turning here, if you are interested:

http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~eamonn/et/et.htm
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: pepperman42 on October 04, 2012, 09:21:19 AM
A number of years ago a great friend Ron Lowry used a piece of lace material as a mask for a 1/24 Bellanca Aircruiser. It worked very well.

Steve
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Edo on October 04, 2012, 03:03:39 PM
Uncle Tony,
Thank you very much for the info, very interestng stuff.
Ciao
Edo
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: GHE on October 09, 2012, 07:06:37 AM
Messieurs !

That roundel-polished version of a metal cowling is also seen on Lindbergh's machine; I'm not so sure whether under wartime
production there was any attendance to a great look ?
Perhaps the cowling had to be finished in good quality but not to good looks ; haven't seen this perfect polishing yet.

To get this pattern I imagine a first layer of a darker polishable paint; afterwards you will need those small paint brushes that
come with Gunzes Metal Paints; they have a ball-like small brush head; with the help of Tamiya tape as a ruler ersatz put
paint point after paint point of the second paint on the cowling and blend both metal colours by carefull polishing in the end.

Gunther
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: uncletony on October 13, 2012, 11:10:04 PM
Here is a photo I ran across of an E.III replica in San Diego; the cowling finish looks period correct IMO:

(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/5dde7d17344bc691a084c47b44059943.jpg)
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: Rizzo on October 14, 2012, 03:34:34 AM
I wonder if you could recreate it with aluminium foil and a dremel polishing attachment?
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: uncletony on October 14, 2012, 05:13:54 AM
maybe. I think the effect Ray Rimmel achieved with two aluminum colors is very effective, at least in his photos.
Title: Aluminium foil for Fokker E.II/III
Post by: dirk on October 15, 2012, 05:23:55 AM
Hi folks,

maybe this will be helpful for the discussion:

In Germany Cream Cheese is packed in plastic package and on top it is sealed with aluminium foil.  In my opinion, the squiggles that can be seen on the printed front as well as on the bare backside have the right size and shape. So maybe this material can be useful...

(http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af208/dirk1966/Fokker%20E%20III%20early/AluminiumFoil01-1.jpg)

(http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af208/dirk1966/Fokker%20E%20III%20early/AluminiumFoil02.jpg)

(http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af208/dirk1966/Fokker%20E%20III%20early/AluminiumFoil03.jpg)

With greetings from Germany,

Dirk
Title: Re: Metal cauling on Fokker E.II/III
Post by: lcarroll on October 16, 2012, 12:29:57 PM
Seems to me the same pattern is on the tops of Kraft Philidelphia Cream Cheese plastic tubs; this indicates a trip to the Fridge is in order..........very interesting!
Cheers,
Lance