forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Matt on June 30, 2017, 01:21:01 AM
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OK, my first post and first build on WW1 models.
I decided that a WNW Camel 'Le Rhone' would be a good starter, and then one thing led to another and I thought maybe I could do a 'Comic' Camel... didn't look too involved a conversion...?
The main things I needed to do were:
move the pilots station one section back*;
create a new solid front decking*;
add oil and fuel tank openings*;
fill ejection chutes on forward fuselage side*;
add a headrest;
make or steal, from another kit, the wing top gun mountings and guns;
move the internals around to match new pilot position.
Those with an asterisk I have done.
Pictures, you say. In next post when I've sussed how to put images up here... :)
Matt
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So, first image.
Main altered parts laid out. The fuselage interior structure has had throttle, pump etc removed, ready to be 're-bolted' further back. New upper cowl is comprised the original WNW decking with a plasticard and epoxy car filler front end. I'll need to indicate the join between wooden upper deck and the aluminium front end - either scribed or a piece of alu tape suitably shaped..
Green cockpit coaming is a piece of electrical wire pushed back into itself (wire into sheathing) and then bent to correct shape. It'll need blending when it is glued into pace. I also need to replicate the extended wooden decking behind the 'pit opening that is canvas on standard Camels - just some sanding and a little filling needed I think.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4157/35224613410_7f79a8c661_b.jpg)
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Decking sat in place (small bit of plasticard filling a hole at front of decking needs shaping).
That coaming fits a lot better than this photo indicates.. :)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4201/35611228225_6bbe27f08a_b.jpg)
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Here's a better view of everything (currently balanced) in a Camel sorta shape...
I think, as others have said, that moving the 'pit backwards gives the machine a much more stylish, less pugnacious look... which I really like..
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4234/35611229285_25092e3e6f_b.jpg)
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Top view, emphasising the rearward location of the 'pit...
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4098/35224610980_dd01b72628_b.jpg)
So, that's it for the moment. This evening I want to start on reattaching interior parts and maybe scratching up the headrest.
Handily, the nav lights and flare holders are included in the WNW base sprues, so no need to scratch these. Though as the only engine used is allegedly the 'Le Rhone' you'll need that boxing for this conversion.
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Very neat.
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You're off to a brilliant start, Matt! Thank you for posting these here. What scheme are you planning on doing?
Cheers,
Bud
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Thanks guys...
Scheme-wise, I'm not sure yet.
Was it the one you did, Bud, that had the Brunswick Green type colour developed by the pilot's family paint firm? That i recall as looking pretty neat...
Matt
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Yep, that was the one, Matt. I had a tough time finding a decent Brunswick green, which is the same color as Pennsylvania Railroad locomotives, and finally settled on Floquil.
Cheers,
Bud
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Great start Matt, and a project I've been considering for some time as well. I've planned to do a Comic using the Hobbycraft Kit however I have ended up with two Wingnut Clerget Camels along with a LeRhone version, and the LeRhone Sprue is available from Wingnut Wings as an A/M part. I'll be following your Build with great interest!
Cheers,
Lance
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Great start Matt, looks awesome what you have done to date. Looking forward to your progress (as soon as you finish this beauty, WNW will release it due to your inspiration and perspiration). :D
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Cheers folks... :)
I may have a couple of questions about finer details as I proceed. One thing I am not sure about is the petrol pump. Clearly from photos it isn't placed to the stbd of the pilot as is often see (maybe in way of gun mounting?). So, I assume the Camel had to have the pump otherwise poor pilot would be pumping away for the whole flight...
So, does this mean the pump is down on the u/c struts somewhere? None of the photos I have (3 in number and well known at that) really give a hint, but it is usually dark in that belly area. So any thoughts gratefully received.
Matt
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You have made a great start with this awesome conversion Matt, what you have achieved so far looks brilliant.
Des.
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Truly a great idea and fine start to make it reality. But I hope you know the first modelling Murphy's law... As soon as you have this build ready WNW will surely release the Camel Comic kit.
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Truly a great idea and fine start to make it reality. But I hope you know the first modelling Murphy's law... As soon as you have this build ready WNW will surely release the Camel Comic kit.
I hope so. My favorite of all Camel variants. Thanks again, Matt, for throwing yourself on the sword for us all.
Cheers,
Bud
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... and of course, at the speed I tend to build, WNW will have announced, released and sold out of their Comic before mine is finished... ;)
Matt
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Matt, Smashing start!!
Like Lance, I've been toying with the idea of this conversion using the HC Camel Le Rhone kit (I haven't the intestinal fortitude to go carving on the WnW kit!).
I purchased the 1/48 Blue Max Conversion to serve as a guide for re-locating the interior bits, and have Bud's (& Stephen Lawson's Aeroscale) build logs as reference, as well a set of old 1/48 SAM 3-view plans.
I can't help with the gun mounts, but I do have a WnW RFC Armament Sprue with multiple Lewis Guns. I'd be happy to contribute a matched pair to your project. Just lmk which style you'd prefer (pics on the WnW website), and they're yours for your mailing address.
Regards, Rob
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... and of course, at the speed I tend to build, WNW will have announced, released and sold out of thier Comic before mine is finished... ;)
Matt
God, as much as I want one, I hope not. I want to see this baby finished.
Cheers,
Bud
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I'm not a Camel fan and I think it's down to the look of the fuselage. I just don't like 'em. But having Googled the Comic, I think I've finally found a Camel I actually like! Bravo for the work you've done on this build and I look forward to following along.
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Matt, I am impressed by your start on the interior re- arrangement, and the re worked cockpit location on the coaming and fuselage.! Looking forward to the next step.
RAGIII
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Thanks again.
Seriously though, I'm not sure about WNW doing a Comic. There'd need to be a lot of changes to the sprue with the interior parts. Everything moves about and WNW haven't separated the parts needing replacement onto a different sprue... but never say never....
Matt
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Just found this: now we have TWO conversions of WNW kits on the go. Wonderful to see people starting to cut up these kits and make something different from them. Your work so far is super-impressive so I will be following along with great interest.
Stephen.
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Hello
Making decent progress, I'll have some more photos early in the coming week.
I have a question. I am assuming that a the guns are on a mount which allowed the gun to be swung down that the aircraft carried at least a couple of spare ammo drums. Anyone have any ideas/educated guesses where these were located?
I am thinking that with all the throttle gubbins on the port side, the drums would be mounted onto the stbd side..? I'll have to make up some holders and get drums from my spares (if I have spares?
With the new seat location and larger 'pit opening, I think the visibility down the fuselage is greater, so I'm going to have to create a bit more detail down into the fuselage... fun, fun, fun... 8)
Matt
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Ok, this is lots of firsts for me.
First attempt at wood effect (though I've gone for pretty subdued in here as the WNW photos don't show any really obvious woodgrain) and first time using E Z Line...
I've carried a rough representation of frames and wires down the fuselage, partly for the hell of it and partly in case it ends up visible
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4013/35592544151_356cf78b76_b.jpg)
I see what people mean about EZ Line changing thickness when stretched.. some of the rear ones look well ropey :)
Here's a bit of a closer view in the 'pit area. I've moved the fuel/throttle system further back and added some extra lines going forward (as the tanks are all forward of pilot now).. really a case of 'creative gismology' as I have no idea what the 'pit looked like.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4145/35336563290_d09efbe590_b.jpg)
You'll see I didn't start the lower frame until after the footstep 'hole' as it suddenly occurred to me that the thickness of the plastic just about equals what the canvas and wood would have amounted to, so the frame will be represented with a bit of paint, visible from the outside.
I am quite happy with how this looks, not too bad even in close up...
More soon, hopefully...
Matt
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Bye the way, do feel free to chip in with observations, tips etc...
This WW1 stuff is new to me, so tapping into the collective wisdom of you lot will be nothing but beneficial..
Ta..
Matt
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You are doing a superb job with this build Matt, there is no evidence that you are new to WW1 aircraft modeling, looking forward to your next updates.
Des.
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Wow Matt, great work on your Camel, looks outstanding.
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Bye the way, do feel free to chip in with observations
Beautiful work! I like that you rigged all the way down - perhaps a case of "I know it's there" but it's still good practice, and I've found with rigging that's a very good thing! And I think your woodgrain will be perfect as-is, I'm guessing you won't be able to see much in the cockpit but what you've done looks nice.
tips
Keep doing what you're doing!
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Thanks folks.
Too hot to do anything fiddly this evening... Started working on wings...
More soon
Matt
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Amazing progress so far, looking good!!
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Love what you've done to the place, Matt! Looking like a proper Comic interior.
Cheers,
Bud
PS-Just a tip: No need to overstretch the EZ line.
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PS-Just a tip: No need to overstretch the EZ line.
Ha.. ha.. Bud.. I was getting to the point where I was going to call it HARD line... I think (thankfully) the bits in the actual 'pit went ok as I was able to hold the line across the CA glue. But when it came to the bracing down the fuselage interior I got into a bit of a pickle a couple of times.
Dab of CA, hold line near end with tweezers, offer up to CA.. count to ten remove tweezers... line glued to tweezers.. argh! Use cocktail stick to hold line down, tweezers, EZ line and cocktail stick all stuck to each other.. :'( So, in a couple of places the line got very stretched as I fumbled trying to get it stuck to the right thing... If it'd been in the 'open' I'd have re-done...
Let's see if I can do a perfect stbd side...
Matt
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"Dab of CA, hold line near end with tweezers, offer up to CA.. count to ten remove tweezers... line glued to tweezers.. argh! Use cocktail stick to hold line down, tweezers, EZ line and cocktail stick all stuck to each other.. :'( "
Matt,
I needed a good chuckle tonight and this did it for me....................how many times I realised have I been there and done that!?! Like you say though, there's always the other side!
Cheers,
Lance
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Just a note to say I haven't given up or shifted paradigm... :)
I'm waiting on some plastic section to finish some of the interior bits. Cleaning up wings, which isn't really particularly photogenic.
Matt
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Just a quick note to say that while waiting for the plastic section (from China as I'm a cheapskate) I got sidetracked onto something else (wrong era to mention on here :)) and I'm trying to finish it in time for the big UK show at Telford.
The Camel is still sat here watching me, so I won't forget it or give up on it (all the hard bits are done).
So do hang on and I'll be back (as Arnie once said).
Matt
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In spite of your super glue and EZ line adventures your interior looks gorgeous! Beautiful wood grain effect and fudging of the details. You are making me think about looking inside of my Camel box 8)
RAGIII
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Thanks
I was happily surprised how the interior looked when I saw the photos (they're a much tougher hurdle than my ageing eyes.. :)).
It is a nice kit, even their seat scrubs up well enough in my view (and it is a lot more visible in the Comic). I've noticed a couple of omissions, one that comes to mind is that while the pipework (is it a pipe) leading from the venturi into the upper wing is nicely portrayed, it is not shown re-emerging and leading don the forward stbd cabane into the fuselage... that'll need to be added..
Matt
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I love the Comic and am eagerly looking foreward to YOUR Comic, Matt!
Richard
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Great job so far! I've been looking at doing a Comic as well with the Clerget in the duellist kit. Following with interest
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Well, the Camel Comic and I have stared at each other for just over a year..
Time for some action again. Started attaching interior parts.
Pics later..
Matt
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Glad to see this back Matt, I think yours is the first comic conversion. Regards Pete in RI
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I am also happy to see you back at this one! Looking forward to your updates!
RAGIII
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Glad to see you back on this one Matt (still have time as WNW has not released this version). ;D
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I'll join the growing list of those pleased to see this one appear back on the "active list" Matt. It's still a project I'd very much like to try so I'll continue to follow your progress here and hopefully you can inspire me to get going on it! I'm really lacking good references for this version despite a shelf full of Camel publications. Were the Comics mostly Clerget versions or just what was on hand?
Cheers,
Lance
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Hi Lance
My understanding is that they were wholly or at least overwhelmingly Clerget Le Rhone powered. My source https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/142947-sopwith-camel-comic/?do=findComment&comment=1366901 says that all HD Camels were Le Rhone powered...
I only have a couple of photos of them... same stuff everyone sees on a Google search. I did find a photo of a two seat conversion with very few parts in place. This gave me an idea of component placement as the second seat must be about where the Comic's seat was.
At the end of the day, there's not a great deal to be seen inside.. I may purchase one of the rather nice looking Copper State Camel pilots to totally plug the cockpit view.. :)
Matt
Edit to change engine type to 'Le Rhone' after re-checking my ref.
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Thanks for the info Matt. Sounds like there's lots of room for a "flexible" approach to the interior layout at least.
Cheers,
Lance
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Yep Lance..
There area couple of things that still bother me a little.
1. Would spare Lewis gun magazines have been carried? The guns can be brought down to a 45 degree position (like an SE5a) but did this mean magazine replacement or jam fixing?
2. This a/c usually had night flying lights. I assumed at this stage and with a rotary engine, there had to be a wind driven generator. However, I can only find images with the wind driven fuel pump - often relocated to one of the u/c struts... So, did these machines use a battery for power? The landing flares were also electrically lit AFAIK...
Matt
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The Lewis needs spare drums, because there are not so many rounds in.
The SE.5a hat one spare above the instruments and another below the the seat, the Sopwith Dolphin some drums below the seat.
The Bristol Fighter had spares on both sides of the cockpit.
The landing lights was Holt flares, electrical ignition, but then magnesia burns very bright. Please see the recent build report of my SE.5a night fighter.
Cheers,
Frank
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Thanks Frank.
I hadn't thought of below the seat.. :)
Regarding the lighting, the Comic and some non-Comic night flying Camels also had 'Holt Lights'. These are visible on the top of the lower wing (above the Holt Flare) and often a single on the upper rear fuselage. These are electric lights which I can only assume are illuminated for the duration of the flight. The WNW Camel Le Rhone includes these on the clear sprue for the night flying Camel option.
I suppose a lead/acid battery could operate a trio of bulbs for a flight's duration...
Lance, it has just occurred to me that the boxing I have used is a Le Rhone, so I assume it was that engine that was mostly used (I don't recall where I read it, but made a specific choice of boxing to get the 'right' engine.). I shall have a look in my refs again. OK tracked down my source.. it's here on the Great War Forum.. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/142947-sopwith-camel-comic/?do=findComment&comment=1366901
I don't know the chap from Adam, but he seemed to know his Camel stuff... :)
Matt