forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => WW1 Aircraft Information/Questions => Topic started by: Checkers67 on September 29, 2012, 12:16:20 PM
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LF information about Ottoman Empire aircraft, pilots, photos, etc. I have a old Cross and Cockade story and that's it.
Steve
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I wish I could help, I really fancy doing the soon to be released WNW kker EII/III eindecker in Turkish Font Markings so I'll be watching to see if anyone posts info.
Good luck Keith
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Some info comes with Osprey Elite #135
German Airforce 1914-1918
Mostly the not so well-known theatres of war will be found scattered in different books.
Definite volumes are sometimes not available. Nobody researched them up to now.
viele Gürße, Gunther
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Years ago while learning how to print photographs 1981 I think. My instructor had a old mounted photo of a Albie D.III with two radiators. He told me the ac was from Syria or Palestine. Forward a few decades and I obtained a Cross and Cockade issue featuring a german pilot flying fokker E's. Hmmm. Sounds like something to explore.
Steve
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Try this link to The Aerodrome for a great WNW Alb. DV build of a Turkish aircraft. Very cool!
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/models/52121-1-32-albatros-dva-wingnut-wings.html
I've got this way down on my build list. Some day. ;)
Regards,
Bob
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Messieurs !
The Middle East and Mediterraenian theatre of war was not only a German but also an Austrian theatre of war, since
the Austrian Kaisertum had strong religious bonds to Jerusalem.
Therefore one has to check Austrian aviation history, too .
The Middle East indeed was a very important region and a vast amount of British and Commonwealth troops was sent there
for the strategic reason of getting the new raw material of world power - oil - under control.
The fight against the Ottoman Empire in itself was not the geopolitical main reason.
This important strategic theatre did not show those dreadful mass attacks and dramatic loss rates; therefore one almost forgets about it. Furthermore it seems that this theatre was kept below Radar on purpose during WW I .
But Oil-Geopolitics shaped our world since then.
viele Grüße, Gunther
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Thanks for the link Bob. Stunning build. The wood effects WoW! This stokes the ole fire for a WnW Albie 5!
8) Steve
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Steve:
Glad the Turkish Albie had the same effect on you that it did on me! It's actually a DVa (I mistakenly referred to it as a DV). It's worth checking out the other links on that Aerodrome thread for other prototype photos and more information.
The wood fuselage is beautiful, and I also liked the muted fabric look of the lozenge.
Regards,
Bob
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...oh, and the dual radiators on the top wing are a very interesting look! :D
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Hello Steve !
new book:
Desmond Seward
Wings over the Desert: In action with an RFC pilot in Palestine 1916-1918
maybe one finds additional info in this volume ?
viele Grüße, Gunther
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Hello Steve !
German aircraft in the Sinai: always the latest types sent on purpose by High Command
Rumpler C.IV, Fokker E.III, Albatross D.III, Halberstadt D.II, CL IV, D IV (Turkey also flew this type
In the end one may send an e-mail to the Turkish Army Museum asking for help or about books on the story of the
Turkish Air Force in WW I .
bizz bald, Gunther
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Hello Steve !
Turkish Air Force:
- founded 1. July 1911 Yesilköy Airfield / Istanbul
mostly Deperdussin and Bleriot XI aircraft (some only)
- called 9.Hava Isleri Subesi = 9.Departement for Aviation Affairs;
- up to 100 pilots trained until 1918 and 450 aircraft aquired until 1918
- 17 land based units and 3 naval units
- Albatross B1 , Gotha WD 1 (naval) , Rumpler B 1;
of course, during the Sinai campaigne a lot of flying was done by German and Austrian units;
viele Grüße, Gunther
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The Ottoman Airforce used the following Albatros types:
Albatros B.1 - 22 examples.
Albatros C.1 7 examples
Albatros C.III 71 examples 2 dual trainers
Albatros D.II 3 examples
Albatros D.III 31 examples -all built by OAW
Albatros D.Va 3 example
As far as German units, only in Palestine :
FA 300 Pascha I arriving 1916
The rest were Pascha II - arriving 1918
FA 301
FA302
FA303
FA304b
FA305
Jasta 300 - provisional unit formed with 2 Albatros D.III(OAW) fighters from each of the units listed above . Know locally as Jasta Felmy , after it's leader, Oblt. Gerhard Felmy
Jasta 55 - renamed Jagdstaffel 1 of the Heeresgruppe F Yilderim or abreviated Jasta 1F
The Ottoman Flying Section 14 operated in 1918 in Palestine. The German ace Hans Schuz was on their roster
The were no Austrian aviaition units on any of the "Turkish Fronts"
Most of the fighter pilots , regardless of the aircraft markings were German aviators
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Hello Jasta 300 !
That means Austrian pilots piloting German aircraft or Austrian officers only beeing liason personnel to the German units?
I drew some conclusion on texts under photos.
Austrian soldiers were sent to the Mediterranean Theatre ( a great uncle of mine fought as an artillery soldier at the
Dardanellen forts) but I still lack the knowledge whether the Austro-Hungarian side just gave technical help to the Turks
sendig some soldiers to fight side -by-side as advisors.
Information ( not from the archives ) on the Palestine front still seems to me a jigsaw puzzle.
viele Grüße, Gunther
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This is great information men. Thank you so much! One more question though. What scources did you gleen from?
I will certainly contact the Turkish embassey to find out more info.
Steve
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Hi Steve !
Some info I found in Wikipedia, some in the new book I mentioned above.
As I wrote in military aviation volumes (Osprey etc. one finds info, but I never met a volume dedicated to that theme; maybe
one learns on the German/Turkish aviators through volumes on the British/ RFC in the Sinai Campaign.
Some Bavarian troops were sent there, Buddecke (who flew along Berthold) was sent to Turkey as an liason instructor, but
did not stay there (from: Kilduff on Berthold).
Gunther
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Hi Steve. I just remembered something. There's a fairly good article on F.A. 300 in the Middle East entitled "Wings over the Sinai and Palestine" in "Over the Front", Vol. 13, No. 1, Spring 1998. This is the journal of the League of WWI Aviation Historians, an offshoot of the Cross & Cockade Society in the U.S. The article has lots of photos and good reference notes and sources. It was written by a couple of German scholars (in Englsh!) and is about 60 pages long. If you cannot easily locate a copy (you can buy back issues through the website), I would be happy to photocopy the article and e-mail it to you.
Regards,
Bob
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Hi, Steve. Check here, as well:
http://www.ww1aero.org.au/
It seems a disproportionate number of Australian pilots and AFC units were sent to the Middle East. Their stories are fascinating. Since there was a more "friendly" atmosphere between the German and AFC personel in the Middle East than in Europe, Australian records seem to have an abundance of information on enemy aircraft encountered.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Bud
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Hi Steve. I just came across another good article with lots of photos of German air units in Palestine. It is entitled "Rudolph Holzhausen--World War One Observer, Diplomat and Historian," in Over the Front, Vol. 26, No. 1, Spring 2011. This edition also has some great color profiles of Jasta 1F Albatros D.Va fighters serving in Palestine in 1918.
Regards,
Bob
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Bob, Thank you for the lead. All this information is great. Now I have to find copies. Should be interesting reading. Along the way I found a new T.E. Lawrence book.
Steve :)
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You guys are great! I can't thank you enough for your information and thoughts. Merry Christmas and may your socks be filled with Wingnut Wonders!
Steve
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Thanks Steve. The WNW fairey has already sprinkled her magic dust over my hanger, and it is brimming with new kits! ;D
If you have trouble obtaining those Over the Front articles let me know by PM, and I'll see what I can do to help. Take care, and Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Regards,
Bob
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Although its not really Turkish (a few pics are, though), the Bayerisches Hauptstaatsarchiv, Munich, has a lot of photos of the "Bayerische Fliegerabteilung 304" in Palestine 1917/18, online:
http://www.gda.bayern.de/findmittel/854851d2-f9ef-4e86-905c-63888740ef12.
Most are reconnaissance-pics, a lot are of a ethnologig or touristic touch - and a few planes are to be seen too (altough most of them crashed):
http://www.gda.bayern.de/findmittel/854851d2-f9ef-4e86-905c-63888740ef12
Scroll down and look for "Flugzeug" or "Bruch" or "Hauptmann..:", "Leutnant...".
Is this one a Rumpler C IV?:
http://www.gda.bayern.de/bestaende/viewer/viewer.php?show=/bestaende/palaestina/bayhsta_bs-palaestina_1256-a
You can enormously enlarge the pic!
Richard
P.S. Looking for Pheon Decals or anyone else to provide us with decals for that theatre of war, too! Would like to build WNW's Fokker E II/III in a turkish version!
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RH,
Wow what a treasure box of pho.tos! I have barely gone over the first link. Thank you so much for sharing.
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Quite a collection of historic middle eastern cities. So far, I spotted: albie d.iii, rumpler c.i and c.iv, aeg iv. So far.... There's even a couple of dioramas on 304 airfield!
Great archive. I always thought Turkish squares covered thes a/c.