forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => What's New => Topic started by: ondra on April 22, 2016, 10:12:07 PM
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Dear friends,
on Sergey's behalf I would like to ask you for your opinion on the new design of Drooling Bulldog paints being currently developed.
Whereas reactions to the quality of paints per se have been very positive so far, there were several comments regarding to the bottles as to the dark glass used and etiquettes difficult to read.
In order to improve the product in this respect, Sergey is currently working on a new design of bottles, made of transparent material with slim shape ressembling medicinal tubes. This would allow not only for easy recognition of the respective shade, but also for simple pouring of the paint into the airbrush gun as well as shaking before use (a small glass ball will be included in each bottle as is in the current paints). These bottles will have a capacity of 25 ml and will contain 20 ml of paint (i. e. the same amount as the currently used bottles), which would enable the user to add thinner or lighten the paint up to the requested scale directly in the bottle. The paints would be delivered on a design cardboard as seen in the picture.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/13073178_1060099847370343_1100346384_o_zpslabkadv1.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/13073178_1060099847370343_1100346384_o_zpslabkadv1.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/13022462_1060101837370144_213805526_n_zpstaf0ujzr.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/13022462_1060101837370144_213805526_n_zpstaf0ujzr.jpg.html)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/13062717_1060612937319034_239737205_o_zpssqay226k.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/13062717_1060612937319034_239737205_o_zpssqay226k.jpg.html)
In order to ensure sufficient stability of these slim bottles on the workbench, customers would get the possibility to order a rack (design is under preparation, currently there are two options in consideration - either the design seen below or a cube shaped rack for three rows per three bottles).
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag72/ondrejmokry/13077379_1060105010703160_534006794_n_zpsrpfckij9.jpg) (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/ondrejmokry/media/13077379_1060105010703160_534006794_n_zpsrpfckij9.jpg.html)
In the poll you can express your opinion on the new design as well as the paint rack. Also please feel free to post your comments in this thread.
Many thanks for your support and your remarks!
Cheers
Ondra
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I like the idea a lot, ondra. Presumably racks of themed sets would be available.
Best wishes
Nigel
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Glad to hear that, Nigel, thanks!
Rack of themed sets could be an option. The primary idea was offering the rack as a single item, meaning you could order it independently from paints. But your idea is very interesting, I have to say. I will forward to Sergey. ;)
Cheers
Ondra
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I didn't vote because there wasn't an option to change the bottles, but not to this! I personally would rather have bottles that don't need a special rack to stand up. These look like a mess waiting to happen. No thanks.
But the current bottles have impossibly small type, plus dark so it is very hard to tell them apart. I end up painting the cap, which works ok...
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Please make them not so smal and hight. A bit bigger is better, like Gunze or Mister Kit.
Cheers
Martin
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With the proposed design there is a high risk of tripping the Bottle/container, thus spilling the precious paint.
You should change that.
Stefan
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I agree with the foregoing comments. Great idea to try to improve the containers however the wider base, heavy glass bottom etc would be far more preferable. Like Justin I really like the Tamiya style containers.
Your efforts to improve, however, are much appreciated.
Cheers,
Lance
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Not keen on the mew design. What I would really jump at is an acrylic version. I cant use the current paints because of a reaction to it. Any chance you might try and make something water based?
James
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Yup, there's a disaster waiting to happen . I'm with the others on the bottles . Definitely small glass jars or even the plastic bottles Vallejo use for their paints . Not keen on the paint rack , just another item clogging up the space on the bench .
Terri
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While I understand there is some dissatisfaction with the current bottles, I would far and away prefer it to this new idea which I see as a disaster waiting to happen. I voted "no".
Warren
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I think I would also be happier with a more solid jar ala Tamiya or Gunze.
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Thin bottles are not a good idea, and I would imagine the racks would cost a lot to post because of the weight. The old misterkit size bottles were fine.
Cheers
Andrew
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This is a terrible idea. The bottles are unstable & require some sort of rack to hold them steady, which is not good at all. Current paint jars are squat for a reason, because they are easy to store and easy to hold upright. They don't tip over easily. By offering a "jar" that is unsteady by design and forcing people to purchase a new rack to store them, when we tend to have racks for small, squat bottles, is disastrous. You need to do market research first, not after designing.
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You need to do market research first, not after designing.
To be fair to these fellows -- market research is exactly what this topic is about. Let's not pile on.
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You need to do market research first, not after designing.
To be fair to these fellows -- market research is exactly what this topic is about. Let's not pile on.
Agreed! Don't like the idea but at least they are asking our opinion and seeking for a way to improve their product! I voted no but then again I have yet to make my major Bulldog purchase. Still hoping that US distributer thing works out.
RAGIII
PS: It should also be remembered that this line of paints is the work of an individual and not a corporation. This is the perfect Market research group,IMHO!
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Hello everybody,
first of all many thanks for your remarks and open feedback, they are highly appreciated.
As Bo correctly stated, this topic is about market research, as we want to know what modellers think and would like to get.
Definitely the point with the stability of the jars is fair. On top of that, thanks to Justin for pointing out the possible issue with the lid. I wrote down all the points and will discuss them with Sergey. As far as my understanding goes, the bottles in the Gunze or Tamiya design were not affordable due to costs, but I agree they posess very useful attributes.
The background of the idea was providing a transparent bottle allowing for easy recognition, easy shaking and easy pouring of the paint into the airbrush gun. These bottles are not meant to replace the current design, but to be an alternative. If you prefer the current bottles, you can order them, there is no change to this. The new design is meant to give you a choice, should you prefer the features described above.
to JiffyJDavies: As we are considering offering both types of bottles our intention is that if someone likes the properties of the new jars, the rack is available to purchase if desired.. Our intention was never meant to force a purchase of a rack to use our product.
Once again thank you for your support.
Cheers
Ondra
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You need to do market research first, not after designing.
To be fair to these fellows -- market research is exactly what this topic is about. Let's not pile on.
Agreed! Don't like the idea but at least they are asking our opinion and seeking for a way to improve their product! I voted no but then again I have yet to make my major Bulldog purchase. Still hoping that US distributer thing works out.
RAGIII
PS: It should also be remembered that this line of paints is the work of an individual and not a corporation. This is the perfect Market research group,IMHO!
Although I don't like the new bottle design proposed I do very much appreciate a company that actively pursues feedback and input from their customers. I don't recall any canvassing from Wingnut Wings on their products and services nor from the many other companies/small operations we utilise. That's not to say that many of our small market operations are not open to our suggestions; Pheon, Aviattic and Taurus are great examples of that concept! I say "well done, Drooling Bulldog", and I hope for your success in this brutal economic world. Like Rick I'd love to see a supplier on this side of the pond, good luck in your efforts!
Cheers,
Lance
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Although I don't like the new bottle design proposed I do very much appreciate a company that actively pursues feedback and input from their customers. I don't recall any canvassing from Wingnut Wings on their products and services nor from the many other companies/small operations we utilise. That's not to say that many of our small market operations are not open to our suggestions; Pheon, Aviattic and Taurus are great examples of that concept! I say "well done, Drooling Bulldog", and I hope for your success in this brutal economic world.
I agree totally here and would like to add: Being afraid of having to buy the new bottles, yesterday I placed an order at Drooling Bulldog to have a chance to get the old designed bottles (of course I was unaware that there would be a choice, not a replacement). I can see the idea behind clear bottles but these brown bottles looking like old pharmacy equipment are simply pretty :).
Best wishes
Borsos
P. S.: Is there a shop anywhere in Czeck Republic where these colours are for sale? It's not too far away from my home and I visit Prague from time to time...
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I don't think the new style bottles would work well for me although I do like that a clear bottle makes it easier to see the color.
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Ah! My apologies, that will teach me to read before posting!
Good that the old bottle is still available, although having two utterly incompatible bottle types may not be very good in the long term.
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I have to apologize for not having mentioned explicitly at the beginning that the new bottles would be an addition / alternative to the current design, sorry.
So to make it very clear - if you order the Bulldog paints now, you will receive them in the "old" bottles (btw. I love the vintage look, too). If the new design goes into distribution in the future, there will be the possibility to choose the jar design during ordering.
We had had a discussion similar to the one here with czech WWI fans before I placed this poll. Not surprisingly the outcome was basically the same. :) I was one of the supporters of the new design, as it fits my needs better than the current jars. For my 1/144 scale, I need to lighten up the paint by approximately 25 %. Therefore it is a big advantage to have additional free space in the jar to add white or yellow. Nevertheless, it has been clear since the very beginning that the new design would not be suitable for everyone.
Once again many thanks for your feedback and inputs, I will keep you updated on further development!
Here the answers to further points which appeared in the discussion:
@Rick and Lance: some good news, dear friends, Sergey is currently negotiating with one local distributor in the US who would like to sell the DB paints. The current obstacle is the shipping to US, but we are looking for a suitable solution.
@Borsos: at this point of time the DB paints are not available from stationary stores, only via webshop. But if you are interested in purchasing some paints, let me know and I will try to find a way to hand them over to you next time you are in Prague. ;)
Cheers
Ondra
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at this point of time the DB paints are not available from stationary stores, only via webshop. But if you are interested in purchasing some paints, let me know and I will try to find a way to hand them over to you next time you are in Prague. ;)
That's Great, thank you ondra! I'll do this. But with the ordered paints I hope to go some time :)
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Hmmm I guess i'm the only one who wishes there was an acrylic option also. They do look nice though.
James
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Do not worry, James, I did not forget about your question.
I asked Sergey yesterday, unfortunately a separate line of acrylic colours is not feasible now. Development of acrylic based colours would require a spectral analysis on the whole portfolio to achieve the same shade as with the lacquer based line and the costs would be very high. Last but not least, Drooling Bulldog paints are the work of an individual and the development is far beyond Sergey's time capacities.
Sorry for the bad news.
Cheers
Ondra
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You never know if you dont ask. Maybe one day.
James
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Do not worry, James, I did not forget about your question.
I asked Sergey yesterday, unfortunately a separate line of acrylic colours is not feasible now. Development of acrylic based colours would require a spectral analysis on the whole portfolio to achieve the same shade as with the lacquer based line and the costs would be very high. Last but not least, Drooling Bulldog paints are the work of an individual and the development is far beyond Sergey's time capacities.
Sorry for the bad news.
Cheers
Ondra
Forgive my ignorance, but I thought Drooling bulldog paints were base off the chemical elements of the real thing from a spectrophotometer.
Therefore doesn’t he already have the spectral analysis data of the original colours and can make acrylics from the same data?
”After more than 2-year long research and comparing of the chemical elements in the preserved samples, I have suceeded in determing the structure of the colours with 100% accuracy. Thanks to this I could make the basic palett of the German’s war aviation prescribed coating. The shades, used by certain squadrons out of the basic colour range are still worth discussion, since according to the chemical elements, these shades might have been replaced by several different pigments. If we look at the Jasta 5 for example, the green coating of the tail areas might have been done with Kadmium chromoxid but also with chromoxid green.
The shades are made to be the exact imitations of the exact pigments used at that time and place the original producers chose to work at. This not only guarantees the authenticity but also “real” reactions of the colours on the model (transparency of certain shades etc.).”
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to FarEast: sorry for the late reply, I was pretty busy last days.
Let me clarify the issue - the paints used on original aircraft were analysed chemically, the analysis had nothing to do with spectrophotometer. The chemical analysis provided the elements contained in the paints so Sergey could find out which pigments were used.
The spectrophotometer analysis comes in the second step, as pigments behave differently depending on the base the paint is made of. For example if you take the same pigment (e. g. Prussian blue) and make two paints out of it, e. g. one lacquer based and one acrylic, you will not get exactly the same shade.
Therefore, spectrophotometer analysis was done on the Drooling bulldog lacquer based paints to ensure they deliver the same shade as the one used on the original aircraft. The same would be necessary for acrylic paints.
Hope this answers your question. ;)
Cheers
Ondra
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Actually the pectrophotometer analysis would allow him to recreate the exact colours in any medium, that's what pectrophotometer analysis is for.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions though.
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Actually it would not, James. But this discussion would be off topic as this thread is about the jar design.
Please feel free to contact me via PM or via FB (Ondra Mokrý) and let's discuss, will be happy to explain as much as my know how allows or ask Sergey for more detailed information should you need any.
Cheers.
Ondra
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Thank you for getting back to me Ondra, I just sent you a PM.