forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
The WW1 modelers' reference library => Weapons - Propellers - Aircraft Equipment and Miscellaneous WW1 photos => Topic started by: Nigel Jackson on October 20, 2015, 05:42:33 AM
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Hello All
I wasn't sure where to post this and trust that Des will relocate it if necessary.
The Independent, a UK daily newspaper, today reports that an interesting auction will take place at Bonhams in New York on Wednesday. Apparently, the lots include a statement made by Lieutenant Donald Fraser, an intelligence officer with the 11th Australian infantry brigade, about the shooting down of Richthofen and photographs taken by him of the wreckage. Reportedly, he states,
"I congratulated Sergeant Popkin on his successful shoot but afterwards found out that two AA Lewis Guns … had also fired at this plane when it was directly over my head,"
"(They) probably assisted in sealing the fate of this airman as he apparently flew right into their lines of fire.
"However, I am strongly of opinion that he was first hit by Sergeant Popkin's shooting as he was unsteady from the moment of that first burst of fire."
Fascinated, I went to the Bonhams site. The overall auction is devoted to Conflicts of the 20th Century and scattered amongst the lots are a number related to the Great War in the air, although sometimes the catalogue description reveals some limitations. In addition to various items of flying costume and uniform I also found the following as I skimmed through the hundreds of lots. I should state that I have no connection with either Bonhams or any of the lots and that in the notes I have broadly used their words.
Each of the following lots is shown by photo on their website.
154 British RFC coat, gloves and helmets.
155 RFC Warren safety flying helmet and goggles
156 RFC souvenirs including a section of German aircraft fabric and two flèchette darts
158 British airship propeller
190 US Navy Curtiss floatplane aviators life vest
197 Rare aircraft insignia from the first US owned aircraft flown by Americans in World War 1, the Dorland Ar.1, 1st Aero Squadron...
198 93rd Aero Squadron "Screaming Indian" nose art art panel 1918
200 Standard JR.1 aircraft wheel, 1918
204 Imperial German Naval Aviation: 5 hatbands, with Iron Cross, wound badge and rank insignia 1914-18
205 Imperial German Air Force silver mess presentation tankard to Alton Foerck air gunner 3 August 1918
206 World War 1 aviation medals: 3 aviation ace and Austrian service medals
207 Pour le Merite Blue Max medal awarded to German flying ace Robert Ritter con Greim 8 October 1918
209 German flyer's leather jacket
210 Baron von Richthofen aircraft skin section with insignia (?)
211 Baron von Richthofen collection including plane fabric sections, coffin splinter, contemporary accounts and period photos (Is this the lot mentioned in the newspaper report?)
212 Diary and photograph of Gunner F. R. Seaton detailing Baron Richthofen crash (Or is it this one?)
213 Canvas fragment from German Fokker D.VII (F)
214 A German Iron Cross insignia (sic). A fabric skin from a downed German aircraft 1916-18 (sic)
215 German aircraft skin. A section with the Balkan cross taken from a Fokker Aircraft 1914-16 (sic).
216 German Jagdstaffel aircraft fabric and data plate 1916-18 (sic)
217 Scrapbook recording downed German aircraft with fabric samples 1914-18
This last, handwritten item looks very interesting. On the page shown, the author writes that it is a copy of a Type description Report which he wrote at the time. Under the date heading September 1917 it notes "the type as one of the new Triplane scouts, with the serial 103/07, brought down as a total wreck by a flight of SE5s. It goes on to add that "The type features a new attempt by the enemy at camouflage. The entire upper and side surfaces are doped a greenish grey. This colour taking the form of streaks at various angles. The under surfaces are a light greyish blue. The fabric itself is of good quality but the dope is somewhat inferior to usual."
Please forgive the length of the post but I thought it of interest. Of course, I have no idea as to the provenance of the said items.
Best wishes
Nigel
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Nigel,
Very interesting, some items real treasures which should stay in the public realm. I wonder what Ritter von Greim's Blue Max would fetch?.....and article 210, probably worth a lot at public auction if it has a reasonably genuine status.
Thanks for taking the time to pass this along.
Cheers,
Lance
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Some interesting stuff. Lot 217 looks an awful lot like one of those Rodney Gerrard fakey-do documents to me -- the drawing especially seems very suspicious and very much like the other fakey-do drawings by ol' RG.
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It is a shame that these items are being auctioned off and not going to museums, but it is the right of the property owner to do what he wants with his collection. It will be interesting to see the result of the auction.
Des.
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Addendum to my last post -- lot 217 is imo definitely a Rodney Gerrard fake; the handwriting is identical to the notorious "Stropp" report alleging to prove the identity of the pilot of the NASM Albatros which was published in WWI Aero many years ago.
Fake "Stropp" EA report -- check out the "T"s:
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/DBF27AB5-6DA1-44BF-B56A-1BF7E6B9A359_zpslpg8gsoi.png)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/12B08EF2-C82F-468F-BACC-9E8B5FB3BC28_zpsr5dvyjgl.png)
Lot 217:
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-19%20at%204.20.22%20PM_zpsrjvgoeas.png)
Bidder Beware!
I wonder if any of the other fabric samples are from the same source. If so, cast a very wary eye upon them...
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Hi Bo
Sounds like great detective work on your part.
I would never be in a position to buy stuff at auction, but even if I were, then I'd want rock-solid provenance.
Best wishes
Nigel
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One problem with living in NYC is that there is SO much going on that it is hard to keep up with it all and things fall between the cracks. I did not even know about this auction!! I will get there at opening tomorrow to at least have a quick look. Among many amazing bits of Militaria is an original German Enigma machine. Here's the link to all the lots:
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22965/#/aa0=2&MR0_length=10&w0=list&m0=0
I'd spend the day perusing it all but unfortunately, have to report to the hospital for foot surgery at 11:00. Hell and damnation.
Cheers from NYC,
Michael
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Thank you for posting such a detailed list of these interesting items.
The name Rodney Gerrard is new to me and we'll worth knowing about!
Suzanne
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Hello Suzanne,
The name was new to me as well until a year or so ago. I understand there is a short thread at theaerodrome.com forum, entitled 'Just who is (was) Rodney Gerrard.' It is in the WWI Aviation, People section. or, to find it you might just Google the name.
Best wishes
Nigel
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Hopefully some forum member, who lives in the New York area, will purchase an auction catalog. Then he will be able to share the photos of the items on this website.
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Hello Suzanne,
The name was new to me as well until a year or so ago. I understand there is a short thread at theaerodrome.com forum, entitled 'Just who is (was) Rodney Gerrard.' It is in the WWI Aviation, People section. or, to find it you might just Google the name.
Best wishes
Nigel
Thank you for the information Nigel.
His story is interesting, but as always in cases that involve clever forgery I'm left thinking what a waste of obvious talent!
I have been tempted (but could not afford) 'pieces of fabric' from WW1 planes advertised on eBay, I now see that they were probably fakes anyway!
Suzanne
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Hello All
I've just been onto the Bonhams site. The auction Has now finished. If I understand things correctly, here are the outcomes with the prices including premiums. The prices are cited first in US dollars and then in Euros. Where information or no price is cited, I guess that the lot was unsold.
154 British RFC coat, gloves and helmets. NO INFO - UNSOLD?
155 RFC Warren safety flying helmet and goggles NO INFO - UNSOLD?
156 RFC souvenirs including a section of German aircraft fabric and two flèchette darts USD 5250; EURO 4623
158 British airship propeller USD 1500; EURO 1321
190 US Navy Curtiss floatplane aviators life vestUSD 1125; EURO 990
197 Rare aircraft insignia from the first US owned aircraft flown by Americans in World War 1, the Dorland Ar.1, 1st Aero Squadron... USD 43750; EURO 38532
198 93rd Aero Squadron "Screaming Indian" nose art art panel 1918USD 31250; EURO 27523
200 Standard JR.1 aircraft wheel, 1918 NO INFO - UNSOLD?
204 Imperial German Naval Aviation: 5 hatbands, with Iron Cross, wound badge and rank insignia 1914-18USD 1625; EUR 1431
205 Imperial German Air Force silver mess presentation tankard to Alton Foerck air gunner 3 August 1918 USD 1062; EURO 935
206 World War 1 aviation medals: 3 aviation ace and Austrian service medals USD 1000; EURO 880
207 Pour le Merite Blue Max medal awarded to German flying ace Robert Ritter con Greim 8 October 1918 NO INFO - UNSOLD?
209 German flyer's leather jacket USD 3125; EURO 2752
210 Baron von Richthofen aircraft skin section with insignia (?) NO INFO - UNSOLD?
211 Baron von Richthofen collection including plane fabric sections, coffin splinter, contemporary accounts and period photos (Is this the lot mentioned in the newspaper report?) NO INFO - UNSOLD?
212 Diary and photograph of Gunner F. R. Seaton detailing Baron Richthofen crash (Or is it this one?) NO INFO - UNSOLD!
213 Canvas fragment from German Fokker D.VII (F) USD7500; EURO6605
214 A German Iron Cross insignia (sic). A fabric skin from a downed German aircraft 1916-18 (sic) USD 1750; EURO 1541
215 German aircraft skin. A section with the Balkan cross taken from a Fokker Aircraft 1914-16 (sic). USD 6250; EURO 5504
216 German Jagdstaffel aircraft fabric and data plate 1916-18 (sic) USD 1000; EURO 880
217 Scrapbook recording downed German aircraft with fabric samples 1914-18 WITHDRAWN
It would be interesting to know what tipped the withdrawal of Lot 217.
While lot 207 appears to have been unsold, another lot, 208 which I failed to list and was described as imperial German Medals. Pour la Merite 'Blue Max' Iron Cross and Prussia Warrior League Badge Medals went for USD 2000; EURO 1761.
I hope the info interests at least some and please forgive the use of capitals in places. I wasn't shouting, just trying to keep things clearer.
Best wishes
Nigel
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It would be interesting to know what tipped the withdrawal of Lot 217.
I suppose an auction such as this attracted knowledgeable types in the field; Mr. Gerrard's shenanigans are quite well known now by the experts.
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197 Rare aircraft insignia from the first US owned aircraft flown by Americans in World War 1, the Dorland Ar.1, 1st Aero Squadron... USD 43750; EURO 38532
198 93rd Aero Squadron "Screaming Indian" nose art art panel 1918USD 31250; EURO 27523
These are excellent prices. Thank you Nigel for posting the result of the auction.
Des.
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It would be interesting to know what tipped the withdrawal of Lot 217.
I suppose an auction such as this attracted knowledgeable types in the field; Mr. Gerrard's shenanigans are quite well known now by the experts.
Agreed, but one would have hoped that a respected auction house would have reached this conclusion before cataloguing such an item.
Best wishes
Nigel
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A real treasure trove Nigel!
But as Bo says - you have to be so careful!
Guy
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Hi folks! Popping in for a bit as real life has allowed.
- Bonham's, Manion's, etc. Oh yes, during my collecting days I used to look at their catalogs as the grown-up version of the Sears & Roebuck Christmas toy catalog of my childhood. Lot's of good stuff, and yeah, no matter the reputation of the "house", you have to be careful.
- It is a shame that these items are being auctioned off and not going to museums, but it is the right of the property owner to do what he wants with his collection.
Des, for many years, I used to think as you do here. However, a couple of decades working with museums & historic sites, mostly as an avocation, but sometimes as a vocation, has dissuaded me of that. Oh! The horror stories I could relate to you if we had a fire to warm our feet and an adult beverage. Believe me when I tell you these items probably stand a much better chance of being viewed and shared in private hands than they will in museums, and probably safer too.
- I saw that last lot, and like a lot of you here, my spidey-sense tingled, and the Gerrard name came instantly to mind. Either someone was trying to get one over on someone else in order to recoup their previous unwise purchase, or someone got taken to the cleaners, and they're only now finding out how badly they got taken. For those of you who aren't familiar with that scoundrel, I'll let some of the Alte Hasse clue you in to the sad, sordid tale of not so long ago.
Warren
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By the way, the fully operational M4 Enigma coding machine which someone noted as listed went for USD 365000 to a private bidder.
Best wishes
Nigel
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I bet he has fun decoding intercepts and tracking to location of U-boat wolfpacks with that. ;) ;) ;D 8) :o
Warren
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Sorry gents, I just now realized that I never posted about having gone to Bonham's to see this lot of lots.
It was an amazing feeling to stand in a large room and, turning a full circle, be bale to see the Enigma machine, the MvR items, fabric sections of WWI aircraft, instruments, uniforms and flight gear, the original transmission photo of the US Flag being raised on Iwo Jima, an autographed photo of Tojo, a Doolitlle Raider's map, and many, many other items of interest to aero and military history buffs.
This link should take you to an online catalog of the lots:
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22965/?category=results#/w0=results&m0=0&aa0=1
Wish I'd had more time to look it all over.
Cheers from NYC, Center of the Universe,
Michael