forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com

WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Hints and Tips/Questions about modeling => Topic started by: compressor man on July 03, 2015, 01:19:05 AM

Title: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: compressor man on July 03, 2015, 01:19:05 AM
On all of my past models I have simply fastened my rigging material directly to the attachment point. However I see so many models now that use tiny turnbuckles or at least a short piece of tubing to replicate one. I am wondering how many go to this extra effort and am I the only one left that has not begun using things like this?

Chris
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: lcarroll on July 03, 2015, 01:37:07 AM
What scale are you working in, Chris? I'm a 1:32 Guy and use them on all my builds. On the other hand I don't think they'd look good in 1:72 or smaller unless perhaps the ultra fine composite vs. metal type.
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: compressor man on July 03, 2015, 03:52:38 AM
What scale are you working in, Chris?


Oops forgot to write that essential fact, 1/32
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: petrov27 on July 03, 2015, 04:31:21 AM
yep, I use turnbuckles for my rigging in 1/32 - I prefer the Gaspatch offerings.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: compressor man on July 03, 2015, 04:54:30 AM
Where does one typically buy these GasPatch turnbuckles?
Chris
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Des on July 03, 2015, 07:24:39 AM
I use turnbuckles in most of my builds but I make my own, they are quite easy to make, have a look here if you prefer to spend the extra time and effort to make your own turnbuckles.    http://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/page8.html

Des.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: RAGIII on July 03, 2015, 07:48:39 AM
I represent the MINORITY here as I do not use turnbuckles in 1/32nd scale. This is for a variety of reasons but the most important one is that I have found it very difficult to thread the lines through the tubing once, let alone twice like most require. I use structural rigging , ( the holes drilled go through the entire surface), running the lines through the wings and securing each end with super glue. I do occasionally use white glue and paint to simulate a buckle. I think Bo once mentioned that rigging done well, straight and tight, without turnbuckles is better than having buckles at odd angles... that is what my fear is, that to add a little nearly invisible detail, I will muck up the overall look.
RAGIII
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Ernie on July 03, 2015, 08:40:15 AM
You can't argue with success, Rick. :o  I honestly never noticed the "lack" of
turnbuckles in any of your builds.  I guess the overall wonderfulness ;) of the
model trumps most everything.  Also, you may be right about the "crooked"
turnbuckles drawing attention.  Whatever you are doing, keep doing it, my friend.

Cheers,
Ernie :)
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Pgtaylorart on July 03, 2015, 08:50:01 AM
I'm noticing that for 1/32 scale, the smaller 1/48 scale Gaspatch turnbuckles look more true to scale. I like to see turnbuckles used at this scale, but they should be subtle. It's probably a bit harder, but I tend to err on the side of too small as opposed to oversized.

George
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Ron@redondo on July 03, 2015, 11:51:49 AM
I have completed two wnw kits so far. I used .010 dia. SST wire on both of them for rigging, turnbuckles were a little white glue. I gave the bought turnbuckles a shot but just couldn't get the 72 year old eyes and fingers to co-operate.
The two kits were Pfalz DIIIA and Albatros DVA. Pfalz was fairly easy but Albatros caused alot of talking to myself. I think slope of top wing made it more difficult. I think I will try fishing line next time gluing to top wing first and drilling thru lower wing.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Ssasho0 on July 03, 2015, 05:34:23 PM
I'm using turnbuckles on my 1:32 and 1:48 build. Recently using exclusively 1:48 Gaspatch ones as they are the most realisticly looking ones and relatively easy to work with. I have also their 1:32 turnbuckles, but using them only where the original a/c had bigger ones, like for example on the cabane strut of Fokker Eindecker series.
In the past I have used selfmade ones from 0,5mm brass tubing (too time consuming for my very precious modelling time), then Radu Brinzan's PE ones (hard to work with and 2D) and now the Gaspatch bucles. Their only downfall is the price, but with my rate of 2 models per year, I can actually afford it.
Regarding the rigging material itself, in the past I have used monofilament exclusively, but I found out, that sometimes it gets overtightened and can cause "banana disease" to the struts. So now I use it only to add structural strenght where I think it is needed. For example, the upper front lines of Fokker Eindecker in order to keep the right dihedral and to prevent wing sagging. Then I moved to EZ line, but I don't like it as it is too soft and threading it through a tiny hole or tube is very hard, way way harder than the mono, so I actually ened using bigger diameter tubing for EZ line, simply because of that. Another con of it is that it gets damaged from superglue, yes it got glued, but it happens that it got malformed or even melted if you put a bit more. Now I use modelcasten rigging line, which is stretchable, but not as much as EZ line and noticeably sturdier (not sure if that is the right word). Way easier to work with than EZ lien and round, while the EZ line is not round (this is not noticeable when pulled). It also comes in two diameters, which is very usefull as not all the lines in an a/c were the same diameter.

Best regards,
Sasho
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Dal Gavan on July 03, 2015, 05:48:37 PM
G'day, Chris.

A method I tried involves sandwiching a .20" RB Motion nut between two short lengths of poly tube and then threading mono' through to an eyelet.  It's small enough to look reasonably in scale and isn't too hard to make.  I'm about to try it again on my Pup and Tripe, only using one piece of poly next to the eyelet and knitting-in elastic, to see if it vaguely resembles RFC shaped wire and terminals.

Cheers.

Dal.

(http://members.westnet.com.au/DalGavan/T_N28_mine71a.jpg)   

PS  I hadn't trimmed the end of the mono when I took this photo'.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on July 03, 2015, 06:00:44 PM
mainly on 1/32 buils but sometimes on 1/48 never on 1/72
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on July 03, 2015, 06:12:16 PM
you can do a hybrid to suggest turnbuckles which i did once. i drilled a hole into the top wing,glue the mono in at this point slipped 2 lengths of .5mm brass tube cut around 3mm. the bottom wing is drill all the way thru and i thread the mono thru the hole pull somewhat taught then apply a dot of ca and pull the glue down into the hole by pulling the line from below. next i positioned the 2 brass tube where buclkles show go and wick extra thin ca into the tube to hold in place. its simpler than actually glueing in the eyelets and threading back and forth thru the tube but looks the same basically.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: compressor man on July 03, 2015, 09:23:40 PM
Thanks for all of the great advice guys. Albatros1234: your suggestion is exactly what I plan to try with my current build and I ordered some .5mm tubing yesterday for it. One of the reasons that I have not gone the turnbuckle route on my models is that they are so noticeable on one. "That doesnt make sense" you may say. But if you look at a photo of a full size plane you really dont see the turnbuckles jumping out at you. However they are very apparant on a model that has them. They tend to look out of scale to me and a little too noticeable. This is not at all a criticism on those who choose to use them on their models however. Just my opinion.
Chris
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on July 09, 2015, 04:23:42 PM
my opinion too i find 3mm length works nicely.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Des on July 09, 2015, 04:45:59 PM
A decision that is entirely up to the individual modeler, a bit like saying how long is a piece of string, the interpretation was different in everyone's eyes, if you like turnbuckles go ahead and use them, your model will look excellent, but it will look just as good without them. I only use them because I like doing it, but when I stand a few feet back from my models (1:32 scale) the buckles are hardly noticeable if at all.

Des. 
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on July 14, 2015, 05:02:03 PM
i think they were mainly meaning that the gaspatch ones look a tad obtrusive des,your method with the .5mm brass and eyelets isnt the same thing,to me much more in scale.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: bobs_buckles on July 14, 2015, 10:19:17 PM
I make and use them!  ;D

VB
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: ALBATROS1234 on July 15, 2015, 10:24:06 PM
do you now bobbo?
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Epeeman on July 27, 2015, 09:10:14 AM
Depends on how I feel to be honest.

They do look good but I have rigged with and without and both have their own merits.

I'm currently building the Roden 1/32 Spad VII and will most likely keep things simple on the rigging front by not using turnbuckles and going straight through the wing with the rigging line.

Regards

Dave 
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: stefanbuss on July 27, 2015, 03:25:31 PM
Quote
I'm noticing that for 1/32 scale, the smaller 1/48 scale Gaspatch turnbuckles look more true to scale.

Agreed. I always use the 1/48-scale turnbuckles on my 1/32 scale aircraft. After giving the polyimide thing a try (and failing due to lack of eyesight, even with optivizors), i returned to brass tubing, like Des does.

S.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: lcarroll on July 28, 2015, 12:06:04 AM
    I use 1:48 GP Turnbuckles on 1:32 subjects, the former look over scale; however the brass tubes are still my most common turnbuckle, subtle but very effective. After the DH2 I feel I own a majority share in von Buckles enterprise! :D
Cheers,
Lance
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Pgtaylorart on July 28, 2015, 02:43:39 AM
    After the DH2 I feel I own a majority share in von Buckles enterprise! :D
Cheers,
Lance

Yeah, Lance, now that I placed my von B order I get to attend shareholder meetings too! ;D

George
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: bobs_buckles on July 28, 2015, 02:50:16 AM
    I use 1:48 GP Turnbuckles on 1:32 subjects, the former look over scale; however the brass tubes are still my most common turnbuckle, subtle but very effective. After the DH2 I feel I own a majority share in von Buckles enterprise! :D
Cheers,
Lance

Lance,
 You can be acting CO and George can be head of finance!  ;D
Thanks one and all!

vB
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: lcarroll on July 28, 2015, 07:59:22 AM
    I use 1:48 GP Turnbuckles on 1:32 subjects, the former look over scale; however the brass tubes are still my most common turnbuckle, subtle but very effective. After the DH2 I feel I own a majority share in von Buckles enterprise! :D
Cheers,
Lance

Lance,
 You can be acting CO and George can be head of finance!  ;D
Thanks one and all!

    Gee, and I haven't even started my "Fee" yet! 8)
Cheers, von Bucklebeautifier!
Lance

vB
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Doug Mace on August 01, 2015, 06:23:47 AM
A decision that is entirely up to the individual modeler, a bit like saying how long is a piece of string, the interpretation was different in everyone's eyes, if you like turnbuckles go ahead and use them, your model will look excellent, but it will look just as good without them. I only use them because I like doing it, but when I stand a few feet back from my models (1:32 scale) the buckles are hardly noticeable if at all.

Des.
So glad to see that, Des....that someone as gifted a builder as you admits to stepping back a bit for a different look at your rigging... I have to create distance from ALL my builds to accept whatever phase I had just finished...hell, I even make myself squint from across the room before I exclaim aloud; Wow...that looks really good.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: Des on August 01, 2015, 07:54:32 AM
IMHO the modelers worst enemy is the macro on your camera, if any flaws can be found the macro will find it and show it up as being a major blunder, also, we are our own worst critic, I have seen some brilliant models but the builder has nothing nice to say about it at all.

Talking about viewing your models from a distance and seeing what details can be seen especially turnbuckles, I am currently sitting at my computer and no more than two feet away is my display shelving, observing my models from where I am sitting they look really good, can't see any mistakes in the paint, can't see any dust, and most importantly, the turnbuckles have all but disappeared.

So, to the rivet counters turnbuckles are essential, to the casual observer I would say no, as I said in one of my earlier posts, I use them because I get a lot of enjoyment from adding as much detail as possible and making and fitting turnbuckles is all part of that enjoyment.

Des.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: pietro on August 01, 2015, 06:25:19 PM
Chris, I use as many as I can!! Seriously, you have to consider scale viewing distance. It may not be appropriate in the smaller scales, where scale distance must be considered. This is one of the axioms in model railroading . I think it might be in the Bible.

Pietro
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: GAJouette on August 02, 2015, 01:36:15 AM
  Pietro,
No it's not in the Bible . However the rest of your reply is absolutely correct my friend. Sound excellent advise.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: FarEast on August 26, 2015, 12:15:17 PM
I really think it depends on the aircraft - certain aircraft such as Eindecker E.I - E.IV really look better with turnbuckles as they are a focal point of the aircraft.
Title: Re: How many of you use turnbuckles in rigging?
Post by: radio on August 27, 2015, 01:22:08 AM
I use it since my DFW Floh build.
I think the models will better look. But it use more time for tackling the wires.
Cheers
Martin