forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: Nigel Jackson on July 01, 2015, 10:13:37 PM
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Hello All
Well, after a nasty case of food poisoning which saw me lose two kilos in five days, a refreshing family holiday near Carcassonne and the virtual completion of a pesky little Airfix Gladiator, it's time to move on. Anxious to see WNW produce a Taube, I thought I'd hurry them along by taking up the greatest challenge of my modelling life and start work on the Copper State models 1/48 Etrich A.II Taube. In the end I may not have the skills to pull it off but, unless I try, I'll never know.
First we have an overall shot of the box contents; I have put the separate and limited construction notes, and the more useful front and side elevations, and plan view drawn by M.Digmayer, in plastic sleeves to protect them. Eagle eyes will notice the lack of white metal parts, even though they are mentioned on the parts list. My understanding is that my kit is a slightly later boxing, which replaced these with resin parts.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/556/19094768901_81bdf54b11_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/v6kFxt)IMG_0764 (https://flic.kr/p/v6kFxt) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
One of the factors to bear in mind on this Taube is, I think, an incredible dearth of photographic material available, notwithstanding the best efforts of forum friends, to whom I am very grateful. This is going to leave me heavily dependent on the Digmayer drawings.
The next two photographs show an immediate problem. In an important sense the resin wings capture the light, seed-wing form in a beautiful way. But you will notice the very serious warpage along the front leading edges.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/525/18470835323_9e00f81380_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/u9cRPZ)IMG_0781 (https://flic.kr/p/u9cRPZ) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/317/18470863713_6d45c297c1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/u9d1gt)IMG_0782 (https://flic.kr/p/u9d1gt) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
Questions
A forum friend has already advised me that such resin warping can be corrected by careful immersion in warm/hot water. But I am very nervous about the best way to do this without damaging the lovely delicate rear edges. Would it be best to remove completely the surplus resin block before attempting to straighten things? What sort of temperature should the water be? Will I need to apply pressure by hand or will the resin 'remember' its original form?
With his customary care and support, VonB has suggested that his 0.5 brass tubing might not be best suited for my rigging sleeve needs and that 0.3mm polymide tubing would be a better bet. Can anybody on the forum suggest a supplier of such tubing?
Time for a stiff drink!
Best wishes
Nigel
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Nigel,
Like you I have heard of the hot water treatment. I am afraid I have never actually used the method so I can't advise you on the pour block. I am looking forward to what you do with this one!
RAGIII
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In the U.S. you can buy polyimide tubing from Amazon. Runs $12 - $15 for a 30 inch piece. It is small almost to the point of being invisible but it's shipped in a ridiculously large tube.
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In the U.S. you can buy polyimide tubing from Amazon. Runs $12 - $15 for a 30 inch piece. It is small almost to the point of being invisible but it's shipped in a ridiculously large tube.
Indeed, although sometimes it also arrives in an even more ridiculous sized carton!
Here:
http://www.amazon.com/Miniature-Polyimide-Tubing-0-0126-Translucent/dp/B003TLNL5I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435760766&sr=8-1&keywords=Polyimide+tubing
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Good luck with your build Nigel, I'm looking forward to seeing you make a start. As you know I scratch built a Taube so I am very keen to see how this kit builds up. As far as the wing warp goes, I know the hot water treatment works well on plastic but I have never tried it on resin.
Des.
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I have heard that resin responds to the hot water treatment from reading reviews on internet modeller,Some reviewers stated that after time the warp came back,but this seemed to be in only a few cases.The taubes rigging should keep it true,ut then again it is a wing warper! ;D
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I've built an number of resin kits, at least half of which had some form of warping. In every case, I first removed the casting block, immersed the part in very hot water (near boiling), removed the part with tongs and immediately placed it on a cool, hard surface and I've never had the warping return. Go for it with gusto, Nigel!
Cheers,
Bud
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Glad to see you choose the Taube, Nigel. It will be a very interesting build
to follow and I am really looking forward to it, my friend. :D
Sorry I don't have any experience with the hot water treatment, but I would
have no problem following Bud's advice.
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Hello All
Thank you so much for the advice and support; it is much appreciated and just demonstrates what a wonderful forum this is. Goodness knows how I'll manage with polyamide tubing so small!
I'm just waiting now on an email responding to some questions I also posed of Copper State Models. Naturally enough I'll post photos of any progress/disasters.
Best wishes
Nigel
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This is going to be very interesting build, that I will follow on closely :)
By the way, what kind of polyamid tubing are you going to use? I tried to get some of the stuff Bertl is using, but with the transport it will cost me 80$ for 1,5meters which is too much :-( Otherwise, I found it in US for about 35$, but with the shipment 80 and at least 2 months for delivery. Not mu cup of tea
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Hello Nigel,
All the best of luck with this interesting and fascinating build my friend. I just know it will be at your usual standards and a very neat build too!
Kind regards
Patrick
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This is going to be very interesting build, that I will follow on closely :)
By the way, what kind of polyamid tubing are you going to use? I tried to get some of the stuff Bertl is using, but with the transport it will cost me 80$ for 1,5meters which is too much :-( Otherwise, I found it in US for about 35$, but with the shipment 80 and at least 2 months for delivery. Not mu cup of tea
My God! It's a thing that you could pop in an envelope along with a lengthy letter and stick a stamp on.What is it with these rip off merchants??? >:( >:( >:(
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Thanks, as ever, Patrick for the kind words and support.
In terms of the polyamide tubing, SsashoO, I'll almost certainly follow the Amazon link that Bo provided and order from there.
Best wishes
Nigel
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Thanks, as ever, Patrick for the kind words and support.
In terms of the polyamide tubing, SsashoO, I'll almost certainly follow the Amazon link that Bo provided and order from there.
Best wishes
Nigel
That's where I got my tubing. The stuff is so much easier to work with than the brass tubing and looks the same in the end. Definitely worth the money.
George
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This is rapidly becoming one of my favorite aircraft and I really look forward to following your build, Nigel.
Coincidentally, I just had my first try at the Polyimide tubing and, after some interesting launches into orbit, found it to be a straight forward process. Bo's Amazon link is where I got mine and he is not kidding about the tube it is shipped in. It's like a circular bridge girder.
Cheers from NYC,
Michael
I've never had the warping return. Cheers,
Bud
Yes, but we weren't discussing your psyche, Bud.
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Hello All.
Just a quick written update. I've now begun sawing, cutting and sanding (suitably masked) the resin. Photos will follow in due course, if Flickr behaves itself! However, the main thing I wanted to note here is the fantastic support I've received from Ilya Sobolev, one of the co-owners of Copper State Models Ltd, who has responded to my questions very quickly and in detail. This, and the support from fellow forum members here really encourages me to continue this project.
Best wishes
Nigel
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Glad you are hard at it, Nigel. I look forward to the
first pictures of construction, beyond the cleaning.
Enjoy the build, my friend!
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Can't wait to see the photos
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I also am looking forward to the photos. Enjoy the build!
RAGIII
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Ilya's a great guy, Nigel. You did good checking in with him. Copper State's in good hands.
I, too, am looking forward to the photos.
Cheers,
Bud
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The Taube is a mighty challenging subject at best, Nigel, but a Resin Kit as well?! I'm looking forward to following your progress on this project and hope to learn from your efforts. With your skills this should prove to be a real jewel! 8)
Cheers,
Lance
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Thank you all for your support, kind words and encouragement. It's time for just a quick update to let you know that I haven't been slacking! I must also thank again, Ilya Sobolev, one of the new co-owners of Copper State Models for his superb help where that has been possible. He also warned me that on some of the older CSM offerings, like this one, there were sometimes significant problems of resin mould alignment. Yes.
As you’ll see from the first photo, I’ve attached the horizontal tail surfaces and begun to scratch build the undercarriage and the rigging tower, measuring as precisely as possible from the profile and elevation drawings in the kit. I used graph paper to ensure that parts were joined accurately. Also notice that the nose just had to come off. Why? The succeeding photo shows a cross-section of the back end of what I removed and the awful extent of the asymmetry that would have to be corrected; unless the Taube really was built like that!
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/368/20203828866_ff9158b1f4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wMkUr1)IMG_1053 (https://flic.kr/p/wMkUr1) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/505/20235827011_5e6b0a30f1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wQaUna)IMG_1056 (https://flic.kr/p/wQaUna) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
The solution for me was to build up a new nose from layers of thick plastic sheet and then insert three metal pins to keep things in place whilst I subjected it to some heavy duty sanding once attached.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/371/20203854376_28886783ef_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wMm31Q)IMG_1055 (https://flic.kr/p/wMm31Q) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
Here it is in place and I’ve used strip styrene to begin the process of replacing the external frame.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/19609234053_af72d98c5d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/vSNs7i)IMG_1064 (https://flic.kr/p/vSNs7i) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
From this angle you’ll notice the copious amount of good old Milliput I had to use to introduce some symmetry to the rest of the fuselage. This mattered because all my careful undercarriage measuring and construction counted for nought when I dry-fitted the parts I'd made.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/331/19609205343_bf8b22f466_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/vSNizi)IMG_1063 (https://flic.kr/p/vSNizi) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
Now all of this early work has proved a greater challenge than had been expected and so to try and retain some sanity I’ve been moonlighting on another project. Surely even all you lozenge, iron cross and fancy paint scheme nuts will recognise and fear the lower wing outline of a truly great aircraft?
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/274/20221952462_ec6eb7eebc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wNWMWN)IMG_1066 (https://flic.kr/p/wNWMWN) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
But back to the Taube and more mould misalignment. The picture might not be very good, but how am I to cope with the misalignment of the engine? Check out the front end rather than Ena’s delicately manicured nails. Looks like it’s the bin then and I’ll have to figure out how to build one from scratch. But with no lathe to use, how I’ll manage the cylinders remains to be seen.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/463/20236028591_ff68081fb0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wQbWhF)IMG_1061 (https://flic.kr/p/wQbWhF) by nigeljjackson (https://www.flickr.com/photos/101192141@N08/), on Flickr
By the way, if any of the photos appear stretched wide, my apologies. Windows 10 and my HP monitor are talking but not necessarily sharing an entirely common language yet. I await the updates.
Best wishes
Nigel
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Nigel,
Excellent progress my old friend. Great solution to nose,looking right to me now. Looking forward to your next update.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
PS: One quick question.From my monitor I can't tell if your SE-5a is resin or light colored plastic,which is it?
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Outstanding update, Nigel.
Martin
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Thank you so much Gregory and Martin. Your kind words mean a lot to me.
Gregory, there's no fooling you - it is an SE5a. Except that it is the WNW 1/32 scale offering, with the lower wing undercoated in white. This is the aircraft which I started so clumsily, but have managed to resurrect with the help and advice of forum friends.
Best wishes
Nigel
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Good show Nigel my old friend. Looking forward to follow both threads.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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You are making excellent progress Nigel on what appears to be a nightmare of a kit, the alterations and scratch building you have done certainly have corrected any issues.
Onwards and upwards Nigel, I look forward to your next update.
Des.
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The alignment issues have certainly been a challenge you met and conquered! Terrific work! I am also looking forward to more of the SE5a!
RAGIII
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i have a few csm kits as well as had a few others i sold and better than half of the ones i have seen have had major alignment issues. which was always a terrible tragedy because they had some really nice subjects. hopefully the new copper state will eventually re-make all the old kits like the taube but do them correctly, whomever was casting for the old copper state was either ill experienced,ill equipped or simply did not car if the castings were mis aligned. i know a guy like that, he taught me basic casting techniques but i have surpassed the teacher now. he thinks in the old way figures people will pay high prices for an oddity whether its good quality or not. and he does
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Nigel, I'm so delighted to see another Copper State model being built. As Scott has pointed out, the subject matter of these kits are wonderful and unique and although the early kits are hit and miss, alignment wise, the new generation of CSM are beautifully cast with no alignment issues at all. When Ilya and his crew get around to redoing the Taube, I know it will be spectacular with all the struts included and a new engine. I've been lucky with all of my early Copper State kits except for the Rumpler C.I, which I discarded in favor of the Planet kit, and the W.12, which I replaced with a newer one. All the rest are superb, especially the new Salmson-Moineau SM.1. Can't wait to dig into that one.
Cheers,
Bud