forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => Under Construction => Topic started by: IanB on February 10, 2015, 09:09:10 AM
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I know we still have a week to go before kick-off, but I wanted to get this first post out of the way, and maybe tempt a few - I know there is a lot of interest in this kit!
As I'm sure you all know, John Adams of Aeroclub released this a few years back. Not long after, I was building up my stock of Aeroclub white metal parts, and also invested in a jig. and John very kindly, (and unexpectedly!) offered me this at a very reasonable price to go along with all my goodies! I think he was also trying to consolidate the business and I just lucked out on the timing!
As a limited run kit, it is top class. The trailing edges are almost razor like, the engraved detail is very finely done, and there is almost no flash!
Here's the box:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4143/34813444394_f04479cb04_c.jpg)
Inside we find all sorts of goodies!
6 sprues of plastic: 2 for the wings, one for the tail and interior parts, the other 3 for fuselage halves, floats and sundry other bits:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4241/35654654505_02641681ce_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4281/34813442414_a6405e86b5_c.jpg)
We then have a bag of white metal parts (wing and float struts, float parts, props, gun rings beaching trolley wheels and control column), and a resin radiator:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4266/35654653305_dc00f76b35_c.jpg)
A lot of the struts are duplicated in nice thick PE, so there is a choice of which to use:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4142/34813439694_2667d2a4cb_c.jpg)
Very nicely printed decals, which include a lot of surplus items such as manufacturer's stencils etc to cover alternative aircraft:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4082/34883027283_b8e6cbae79_c.jpg)
and of course, last but not least a large instruction sheet!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4277/34883027203_09457e5f8e_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4235/35561787041_f959c5c9e8_c.jpg)
I will be using the Datafile and a Windsock International Seaplanes Special as references:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4205/34883027083_2e783d525f_c.jpg)
This is going to be a very interesting build and a huge challenge - the rigging is NOT simple! I'm thinking of building her with wings folded, we'll have to see if that is feasible.....I'm really looking forward to getting started on it!
Ian
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This does look like a good kit, Ian. I was tempted to buy one at Telford but decided I'd spent enough, so I'll watch your build instead. :)
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Good luck, Ian. This will be a great build to observe and learn from
Best wishes
Nigel
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Wonderful subject Ian, and it looks like a pretty decent Kit. This will be an interesting Thread to follow!
Cheers,
Lance
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One of my favourites, really looking forward to seeing this build.
Roy
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One of the most graceful seaplane. It has a charm characteristic of British planes . I really like . The model looks very beautiful!
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Hi Ian
I am glad this one was picked, really looking forward to seeing the build.
Alan
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I voted for this one so I'm glad others did as well, I'm looking forward to seeing you start this build, it looks to be a very good kit.
Des.
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Too bad that kit is not available anymore! I 'd really like one in my stash!
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As all of the others have stated this looks to be a nice kit. I am looking forward to watching your Short develop!
RAGIII
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Greatly looking forward to this one, Ian! One of my favorite Great War aircraft.
Cheers,
Bud
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Well, I've finally made a start. All the parts have been removed from the sprues and cleaned up, and the interior is well on the way to being painted and detailed....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4015/35561786921_9bef53bd35_c.jpg)
Ian
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Nice start on the interior! I am looking forward to seeing the next step!
RAGIII
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Great to see that you have made a start with this kit Ian, looking forward to following along.
Des.
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Well you don't have long to wait!
Fuselage is now buttoned up. I haven't gone overboard on the detail but I have drilled the seat backs, added Eduard seatbelts, a little rigging, and a rudder bar.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4214/34851197864_6c1907507f_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4088/34883026933_9ea1b4ef14_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4212/35305112570_e7a96b2bef_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4050/34851197784_eedcbc7c9f_c.jpg)
The bulkheads needed a little sanding to fit properly but nothing major!
Ian
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very nice, looks like a nice kit of a cool subject
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She's shaping up beautifully, Ian! Fantastic job on the innards.
Cheers,
Bud
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I got a bit more done today, mainly starting on the lower wing mountings.
I started by cutting off a little under 1mm from the inboard end of each wing, along with the mounts, and replaced the lost width with a piece of plastic strip.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4047/34883027953_117bf55abf_c.jpg)
The fuselage was modified by adding strips of .010" card to lower the wing, and making a small cutout at the front to enable the parts removed from the wing to be fitted flush to the sides.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4258/35305112390_fe3675e996_c.jpg)
The pieces that had been removed were then modified by drilling a hole on the front spar for the locking pin and reshaping the front and rear ends.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4241/35305112500_5f5028b964_c.jpg)
The modified parts were then fitted to the fuselage and the gaps filled.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4264/35524308811_26da4eb222_c.jpg)
Tomorrow I'll tidy it up and maybe make a start on painting and preshading.
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
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Fantastic build up to date Ian.
Martin
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A little more progress.
I realised after fitting the wing mounts that the front spar locking bar didn't match the front cabane. Fortunately after measuring and checking the plans it's evident that the strut needs to move forward about 0.5mm so problem solved easily!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4096/34851198644_beb23a3a79_c.jpg)
I spent this morning thinning the wing trailing edges and tidying the scalloping, then decided I needed something in the engine bay. So I added the front mount, cut up some plastic stock, stuck it together, and ended up with a rudimentary engine - good enough to fill the void!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4126/34851198994_d7c2eeccb1_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4142/34851198754_c6f684b26a_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4016/34851198564_459afcebb5_c.jpg)
Thanks for looking in.
Ian
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Excellent work, Ian!
Cheers,
Bud
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Very great work.
Martin
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All and any type of scratch building is good in my book Ian.
You are progressing along nicely with her.
Watching very closley due to the fact i have to build one but in a rather insane scale
Keep up the good work
Roy
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Thanks guys.
With a project such as this it obviously pays to plan ahead, so I've been looking at the rigging - I'm not yet sure how I'm going to fit the outer bay wires which are pulled upwards at the outer ends to clear the tail when the wings are folded....
The Datafile plans are also wrong on some of the rigging - they omit the additional single flying wires which run to the mid-point in each bay, and the drag wires from the nose are shown incorrectly - the lower two (only one is shown on the plans) run to the upper fittings of the inner and mid front struts and were detachable at the nose end to aid wing folding, the upper one runs straight back to the forward cabane strut, not to the mid front strut as shown. They also show the outer bay rigging incorrectly. The flying and landing wires in this bay did not run front/front and rear/rear, but crossed over each other - front lower running to rear upper, and rear lower to front upper, just to make it even more awkward! This was again to aid in clearing the tail and its rigging when the wings were folded. The aforementioned extra single flying wires were fitted as normal in this bay. Curiously the plans include drawings from the RAF Museum which clearly show this arrangement!
Ian
PS does anyone have any detail or plans of the 14" torpedo?
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Perfect work!
Good luck for the rigging solution!
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I have only just caught up with this one - you are making a wonderful job of it especially with the added details. I really like the engine - just what modelling in this scale is about.
I too have found that sometimes the DF's have small errors in them which can be annoying, but you have found them in plenty of time. I am really taken with the idea of the wings being folded - not easy to reproduce but certainly different. And I really like the different and unusual.
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Ian,
This is really great, sorry to arrive late for this party. A friend of mine built one of these, and it made me sorry I never picked one up for the stash.
Anyway, you're doing some wonderful work on this kite.
Warren
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This is really coming together beautifully Ian,I like the mods you did to the bottom wing mounting and your mock-up engine is a clever idea.
Des.
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Thanks to all for the comments, much appreciated!
The mock-up engine was a little too short so I added a spacer under it to bring it up a little, then refitted the nose and added the exhaust. It does show if a light is shone at the front so it's been worth the time spent doing it. The cowlings are now on and just need a little more sanding to fix the fit issues.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4039/34883027473_24cb98c7fa_c.jpg)
I have added "hinges" to the lower wing mounts, and the bar at the rear of the fuselage that locked the wings in the folded position. A dry fit shows that the bar matches exactly to the rear strut location of the folded wing, which is a good thing as that is what it locks onto!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4259/35614940696_a66d5cdcd2_c.jpg)
I've also been working on the floats and upper wings. I drilled out the float mount holes to take 2mm rod, glued that in place and added several layers of Mr Dissolved Putty to blend it all in. It will be sanded to the correct shape when it's good and hard, and the rod will be drilled to take the float spacer bars.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4047/34883027353_ebf664461b_c.jpg)
The upper wings were separated from the centre section, which was then in 2 pieces, so they were joined and filled. The cutouts at the rear were removed to allow for the wings to be positioned folded. So far it all matches up nicely and I should be able to add the "hinges" on the top wing very soon. The plan is to assemble and rig the wings separately then attach them as completed items to the centre section/fuselage assembly..... we'll see how that works later......
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4075/34813449714_b318f8b86b_c.jpg)
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
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This is coming on really fast! A very interesting update, especially the details on the folded wings.
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Ian,
Sorry to be dropping in so late on this one! You have done outstanding work all around! The mock up engine is a brilliant idea and was well executed. I envy anyone who can do such beautiful work in the tiny scale 8)
RAGIII
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You are progressing very well, Ian. It is a very interesting
build and you are doing a great job of it. Well done!
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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You have undertaken a hard piece of modelling bread. But your progress is fantastic, Ian. I am looking forward to its further unveiling.
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Thanks for all the comments folks!
A little more progress to report, in that I have now fitted the pins that will (hopefully!) secure the wings in place....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4288/34883027413_11b181094c_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4235/35654698785_06808886c9_c.jpg)
It's annoying to note more errors on the Datafile plans: the fuselage is 2.5mm longer, and the wingspan 2mm longer, in the elevation drawings than in the plan drawings! IE: the drawings don't even match themselves! The kit fuselage matches the elevation, so that is what I have been using. I then noticed that the centre and outboard wing struts should be a couple of mm further inboard - but if I correct that now they won't match the rear support bar for the folded wings, so they'll have to stay wrong....
A little more tidying up and then I can start to get some paint on. White first for the undersides, a more tan colour for the uppers and fuselage, then add the upper wing decal shadows and ribbing, followed by the final colour.
Ian
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Those wings look very convincing - this is really going to be something different. Excellent work.
With reference to the DF plans you are not alone in finding discrepancies. On the Ago plans the scale bars on 1/72 are too small! The plans themselves seem to be correct, I have noticed on other sets of plans that drawings do not always match so I have had to check dimensions and measure to find which are correct.
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This is turning into a really interesting build, looking forward to seeing the next update.
Des.
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Extremely well done to date! I know the Variances in the drawings bother you but NO ONE will notice :-X
RAGIII
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Ian,now you got me really disappointed...I thought you were gonna make it workable! :'( ;)!
I have the same problem with the plans for the WD7,guess there's nothin' left but some serious eyeballing...
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Fantastic work so far Ian , going to be a fairly good size even with the wings folded !
Terri
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Great work until now Ian.
Martin
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I have tried the woodgrain on the floats 3 times and started again, so now I've decided to go with Uschi's decals. I went out and bought some oils today, and added the decals over a base of desert yellow. Tomorrow I hope to give the decals a light overspray of Tamiya Flesh base and then I'll start experimenting with the oils - something I've never tried before....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4279/35305112880_f537abc9b9_c.jpg)
I have also given the nose a first coat of grey....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4084/34813459994_652e2f87c5_c.jpg)
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
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Coming along nicely Ian , looking forward to seeing how the wood turns out .
Terri
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Looking great! I am really looking forward to your wood floats after the oils are applied!
RAGIII
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A very interesting technique you are using to do the wood grain on the floats, I will be following progress closely.
Des.
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Very good painting Ian.
Martin
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Well, I bit the bullet and went ahead with the oils! First gave the decals a light coat of Flesh base as per Uschi's instructions, then the oils. The first attempt wasn't too good so I dipped the brush in the thinner, brushed it off, and did it again. Much happier with the result now...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4237/34845555253_5c0a322666_c.jpg)
It's still not as good as I think it could be, but it'll do. Let's face it, there's not too much grain or colour difference visible in 1:72 anyway, so I really don't want to overdo the effect.
Ian
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Ian,
I love the work you're doing on this, I'm watching and learning. Those floats look fantastic with the oils on, I'm going to have to look into getting some of those decals and find a place to use them.
-Dan
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It is so beautiful, Ian.
Martin
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Thanks guys!
This appears to be one of those rare cases where the pic actually looks better than the real thing! I think I need a softer brush for future use, just to get rid of the paint lines (they're not too obvious, but I know they're there) and make it all blend a little better.
Ian
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Hi Ian,the perfect tool for painting wood grain is a small fan brush,works a treat. :)
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Nice wood grain ,Ian!
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Very interested in the wood grain as I am about to attempt the same with the floats on mine. I am thinking of just using primer and oils - it will be interesting to compare results. As you say in God's Own Scale there would be very little grain visible. Yours does look good to me.
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After 3 weeks the oils were still tacky, and I didn't like them at all, so it's all been stripped off. I'm really not too happy with Uschi's decals in 1:72 so I probably won't be using them again. All they do is show lines which really aren't visible at all in this scale. Adding to that, after scouring the DF over and over again, I'm not even sure that the floats were made of wood - there are a couple of pics which clearly show rivets and chipped paint around the edges...so I will paint them the same grey as the struts and cowling - or maybe not...... :-\
On another note, a little more progress has been made on the wings. After an initial primer coat, I decided to fill the small indents for the strut locations and reposition them correctly. I've also separated the ailerons and added pins to remount them. I was going to add the float struts at this stage as the kit supplied items fit into slots under the fuselage which would need to be filled before painting, but then I discovered that both the PE and the white metal ones are way too long, (according to the DF plans) and too wide to fit with the mods I've made to the wings to enable them to be mounted folded. So.... I will make new struts and add pins to fit them - which will mean I will either have to drill the white metal float mounting bars, or make new ones of those too. Since they have a curve in the middle for the torpedo mount I may experiment with drilling them.....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4031/35654656185_d1d101143a_c.jpg)
More fun to follow....thanks for looking in!
Ian
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Nice update Ian.
Martin
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It reads as though you are having some right old fun and games with this one! I still think that it will turn into a first class model in your very capable hands and will be very interesting with the wings folded.
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Thanks, Martin and LM - indeed I'm having way too much fun with it. Each new challenge is more thought and another different solution....hopefully the solutions will work! LM - thanks for the vote of confidence!
Ian
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Not much to show in the way of progress, but all the locating holes have now been drilled for the wing struts and the float mountings. Next up will be another coat of primer to check for any more filling/sanding that's needed, then adding the underwing shadow details for the roundals and ribs.
Ian
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Nice job Ian.
1:72 isn't for the faint hearted!
Guy
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It is a pure hard-core modelling! I am keeping my fingeres crossed!
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I've been really busy with work recently, but I managed to get a little more done today. Spars and ribs have been added with a brown "Sharpie" and I attempted a first coat of CDL today. I tried ModelMaster Acrylics for the first time and thinned with Tamiya thinner - it totally bunged up the airbrush! I now have 3 bunged up airbrush tips which are soaking in thinner to try to clear them out, I can't even get any air through them! So I went to my local hobby shop and bought Modelmaster thinner, maybe it's the Tamiya thinner....
Here are the tail surfaces and upper wing centre section ready for paint...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4131/35654695715_0d78f7ae5c_c.jpg)
and here is the fuselage, CDL on and the nose painted too...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4095/34813472844_61eb7e5ac0_c.jpg)
Now to sort out the paint problem....
Ian
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Looks gorgeous. As for the Model Master Acrylics I think that plain distilled water is your best bet. At least if my memory is correct. Try mixing small amounts in a bottle cap and see how it reacts to thinners after a period of time before putting it in the airbruxh.
RAGIII
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Shame about the airbrush but the CDL on the fuselage looks really good. The standard of your painting is very high indeed - am looking forward to see how the shadow effects work out when you finally get the airbrushes working again.
Stephen.
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Ian that is very fine work.
Martin
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I bought a new tip yesterday and today I finished off the CDL. First I thinned the paint with the Modelmaster thinner - it worked great on the undersides of the wings, but was too thin on the tail and upper wing surfaces, running into the seams. So I then sprayed without thinner and that also went fine until it started to clog again! I'm happy with the result but I wish I could figure out what I'm doing wrong! It's not very clear in the pics, but the roundel shadows do show through a little better ....
Anyway, in addition to the CDL, I also painted the cockpit padding, rescribed the engine panels, and added the 4 carburetor intakes on the nose. I've made an attempt at chipping on the engine panels but I think I'll paint over it as I'm not really happy with how it looks......
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4014/35614968056_e265dc4010_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4233/35524305201_57aff60334_c.jpg)
Finally, I made a start on the radiator mounting using 0.010" brass wire.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4284/35692151305_015a11d07c_c.jpg)
Thanks for any tips re the painting.....
Ian
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Apart from your air brush clogging issues the paint work is looking really good, I like your CDL colour and the wood around the cockpits is excellent.
Des.
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Apart from your air brush clogging issues the paint work is looking really good, I like your CDL colour and the wood around the cockpits is excellent.
Des.
Couldn't agree more, Ian! Hope you get your airbrush sorted soon.
Cheers,
Bud
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I agree completely with Des and Bud. Your CDL looks great!
RAGIII
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The next great step to this build.
Martin
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That painting is simply superb and the detail inside the cockpit and on the engine panels is so good that it is hard to remember that this is God's Own Scale.
Stephen.
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Thanks to all who left comments, much appreciated!
I didn't have a day off today, but my flights are at 10:45 tonight so I basically had the day to myself!
I drilled the holes in the fuselage for the elevator and rudder cables, and also for the upper centre section bracing. Unusually, this aircraft doesn't have cross bracing fore-and-aft between the cabane struts, only side-to-side. The fore-and-aft bracing is forward to the front of the engine and aft to between the cockpits, so those holes have also been drilled. I then fitted small pieces of brass rod to the cabane strut holes in the upper wing centre section, and when those were dry, I added the struts. Here's the first dry-fit of the centre section:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4207/34845554103_ea5c617c05_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4136/35305113010_58681a19d9_c.jpg)
I also painted the floats..... again! I'm a lot happier with the finish this time, and I think one more coat of clear orange may well see them done.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4290/34813474014_e2f92d069e_c.jpg)
I will make a few small adjustments to the cabane struts, cover the brass rod joints with dissolved putty, then paint them before fitting the centre section. Rigging will be added as part of the attachment process rather than after it's all done as I want to make sure it will add structural strength.
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
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Very beautiful work, Ian.
Martin
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Beautiful job, Ian. More so considering you're working
in the teeny scale! Looking forward to the next updates!
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Outstanding work Ian! really taking shape now!
RAGIII
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Glad to see that the floats are painted at last - they look fine to me. The wing centre section looks excellent - with the wings folded this part will need to be extra strong. This is really going to be a most interesting model when finished. Looking forward to it.
Stephen.
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i have had good luck laying translucent linen by mixing the base coat with future then painting on by brush. i make it translucent enuff so that it takes a few coat to get the desired effect ,that way i have control. initially i paint the base,then paint markings,lay a coat or 2 of translucent/futured base, then do ribs/spars, then more translucent layers. then weathering/washes etc followed by matte coat.
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Thanks for the comments and feedback! A little step sideways today...the floats will be repainted yet again.....
Ian
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A little progress today!
I had finally got the floats to look reasonable, so today I attached them to the cross members, then measured and fitted the brass rod that will be the float struts. The white metal cross members were drilled to give a stronger attachment for the struts. I will add plastic card for the fairings and blend it all together with Mr Dissolved Putty before painting.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4029/35524338231_9f5d2e18cf_c.jpg)
Ian
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Looking great!
RAGIII
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Lovely floats.
Martin
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The floats look fantastic, Ian!
Cheers,
Bud
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Nothing wrong with those floats and struts - indeed they look very superior to me.
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Another step backwards....I'd left the floats in a clamp while the struts set, and when I removed them the paint had stuck to the clamp and came off! So this morning I sanded down the float sides again and repainted the base colour.
I needed to do something in the way of progress, so I printed out some serial numbers for number 842. According to the production list in the datafile, the first production batch started with number 841, which was serial number S129, so I printed out S130 as the next one in the batch. This will replace the S106 in the decal for number 184. I'm not sure why there is no serial number for this aircraft as there certainly appears to be something very similar to 184's serial number on the fin, although the pic is VERY blurry....anyway, it will add a little more visual interest so it's going on! I also applied a coat of gloss where the decals will go so I can get those on soon....
Ian
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Ian,
Regardless of issues, you are making a great model here! I just stumbled onto it while looking around. I can't wait to see it all done.
Did you figure out your thinner problem? One thing I'd do is just soak the tips in lacquer thinner. That stuff dissolves everything!
All the best and keep plugging away! (for all of us) ;)
Dan
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Ian,
Oh wow marring the paintwork on her floats, that's a crying shame. You really had them looking great too. But knowing you they will end up being even better than before. Excellent project and one I'm looking forward to following my old friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Dan & Gregory, thanks so much!
I have had to rethink the float struts. The brass wire was too thick and didn't "give" enough to enable accurate fitting without breaking off, so I removed it, and drilled all the way through the white metal and the plastic. I then CA'd .010" brass wire into the holes and will bend it to the correct angle when it is set. The struts will be made from stock plastic, drilled, and attached to the pins.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4098/34845552863_6678e28cb3_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4263/35654696665_5005ea9b6c_c.jpg)
In the meantime, I've added the frame for the radiator and painted it, and the prop tips.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4106/35614939106_ecb42ea950_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4090/34884534733_bf76f04a09_c.jpg)
Ian
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Your build comes very nicely along, Ian.
Martin
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Considering the problems that you have had with this one, I think that you will deserve a medal just for finishing it!! This is a really great build - am waiting with baited breath to see it finished - especially with the folded wings.
Stephen.
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I've finally crossed the first hurdle with this one! I made the float struts from the strut material supplied with vac kits. A little basic trigonometry to find the lengths and we're off......
Ends were drilled to take the .010" brass rod pins, then cut to the correct angle. I CA'd the struts to the pins in the floats and then did a dry run to double check....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4017/35614982186_a64a8ef9e5_c.jpg)
This showed my measurements were off by about 2mm - not sure how I came up with the original measurement as however I measured I couldn't come up with the figure I'd first used! Anyway, the front struts were trimmed by a couple of mm and refitted, all now looked good so.....
on they went!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4279/34813458684_00ff807412_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4119/35524301791_9ff838d252_c.jpg)
I'm very pleased with the results, and it's nice to have finally got her "up on her feet"....I feel that a huge barrier has been cleared by getting the floats on, after all the problems I had with the painting etc. Hopefully I'll be able to make progress a little more quickly now! The next step will be to add the smaller support struts and then the upper wing centre section..........followed by all the rigging associated with both assemblies..
Thanks for looking in.
Ian
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Awesome work, Ian! As Justin said, that sort of strut assembly is always a challenge.
Cheers,
Bud
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Thanks guys - actually when I went back to look at it again I realised my math error had also been on the centre strut, which forced the floats too far aft. Even though they are CA'd on and are very sturdy, they pulled of fairly easily, so 2mm was trimmed off the centre struts and I now have the floats where they should be!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4231/35563346681_703abf8c78_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4033/35306492370_3a0fdd9ef6_c.jpg)
Ian
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Awesome work on mounting the floats!
RAGIII
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Excellent results mounting the floats Ian, it looks to be a very sturdy assembly.
Des.
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Fantastic work to complete the floats to the fuselage, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Ian,
Outstanding work on her floats my old friend. Since I know very little about the Short 184,can you tell me the purpose of the lower cut outs on her fuselage? Keep the awesome progress.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Thanks gents!
Gregory, I've been wondering the same thing myself. I can only guess that maybe they were there to help drain any spray/water that got into the cockpits... that could add up to a lot of extra weight on board in an aircraft that was already a very poor performer.....
Ian
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Ian,
I had problems with the floats and strut arrangements on the Ago - they were by far the most difficult part of the build because I too could not seem to get them to look right, and all those angles have to be just right. You have done an excellent job to get these right, together with some of the other problems with the paints/varnishes, etc. I am very impressed indeed with the detail that you have got on this model and in God's Own Scale too. This is really coming up to expectations - can't wait to see those folded wings on it.
-
The float support structure and what I assume is a bracket to stop the torpedo from nose-diving, are now complete. Next on the the "hit-list" is finishing and fitting the torpedo and all its fittings and rigging........ did someone say "sucker for punishment"? ...........
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4282/35267452460_d2584eebea_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4075/35654692115_e07db5ef14_c.jpg)
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
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Looks as though you have cleared a hurdle now and are able to get on again. Looking every bit the part Ian - this is going to be an excellent model when it is complete.
-
Next outstanding update, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Thanks folks!
I thought that after all the hassle of the float struts, I'd do something simple. I'd bought a resin torpedo to use and had thought I'd just need to make new fins and shorten it a little (length of Mk X 14" torpedo was 15 feet 6 inches, which made the resin item 5mm too long). I duly shortened it but it looked too stubby....then it occurred to me that I hadn't checked the diameter. It should be 4.9mm....it was 6mm!
So I decided to scratch build it. A piece of 4.8mm tubing was cut to length for the main body and two pieces of 3.8mm rod inserted, one in each end, to give the correct length. These have had miliput added and when that is dry I will put it in a drill chuck and sand down the ends to get the correct nose shape and taper on the tail.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4022/34813471214_61a8ffa64d_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4280/35654693535_d639f770bd_c.jpg)
At least it makes a nice change from struts!
The length of the torpedo was supplied by a member on another forum, who also pointed out that the lower ailerons are shorter than the upper ones...something I hadn't noticed. I looked into it and sure enough, there are quite a few pics in the DF that clearly show them to be 2 ribs shorter! So I have started to correct those too, which may mean a repaint of the lower wings but at least they'll be correct!
Thanks for looking in,
Ian
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Ian,
Great update my old friend. Your torpedo is looking excellent as well. Keep up the great works !
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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It is turning out very nice,
don't give up!
-
Very good update, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Very nicely done Ian.
Des.
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Nice to read that other modellers also make mistakes!!!! i.e. I am not alone.
The torpedo looks very good indeed and should be a good addition to what is turning into a first class model.
-
Thanks all, for your comments, they are much appreciated! Not much further to report, I've been working on the torpedo and the aileron corrections. I'll update when I have something worth showing!
Ian
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A small progress update:
I got some primer on the lower wings where I've corrected the ailerons and I'm happy with those so painting will proceed there.... ditto the torpedo - a little filler needed in one small spot but other than that I'm more than happy with it.
Looking for something to do today so I fitted the tail float and rigged it with stainless wire...
Next up is to fit and rig the torpedo.....
Ian
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You have done a great job Ian with the tail float.
Des.
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Ian,
As always my old friend exceptional works come from your bench. Keep up the progress.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Looks mighty fine!
-
Very beautiful work, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Brilliant work, Ian! She's shaping up beautifully.
Cheers,
Bud
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That is one very impressive model. Excellent update, looking forward to more.
Stephen.
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Nice work on the tail float and rigging! Beautiful model to date and I am looking forward to your next update.
RAGIII
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Thanks to all for your comments, they are very much appreciated!
Today I got the fins fitted and a coat of basic steel on the torpedo, along with repainting the lower wings. Pics to follow.....
Ian
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Hi all,
I've been taking a few steps backwards this past week. Not deliberately, but I just seemed to get clumsy! I knocked 3 of the torpedo's fins off, and then managed to clip the tail float, resulting in it coming loose and popping the rigging out.... that has now all been fixed and I've managed to progress a little further.
I decided to add the tail feathers before the torpedo, but then I noticed that I hadn't corrected the fin, so that had to be done. The actual aircraft has quite large gaps between the fabric on the fin and the fuselage, so the mounting slot in the fuselage was filled, the "peg" on the fin removed, and the fin itself sanded along the bottom to represent the curve of the fabric. The bottom of the fin was then drilled and plastic rod "pegs" fitted to mount the fin to the fuselage. The cut out at the front of the horizontal stabiliser was also filled before it was fitted. A little touch-up is needed along the top of the fuselage where the corrections were made but other than that it's done and I'm much happier with it now.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4034/35654691295_2bc8c300da_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4281/35524299861_ed38505cd0_c.jpg)
I then decided to make a trestle for the tail out of HO scale 4x6, and 2x4 - close enough for me!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4024/35614937336_349d201396_c.jpg)
and here is how it'll go together on display....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4255/35654658545_e05e91a933_c.jpg)
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
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Very nice work on the trestle Ian, and the fin and tail plane look really good.
Des.
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That is a nice update, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Two steps forward, one step back. But the progress is there! Nice update, indeed.
-
You have done a great job recovering from your mishaps and the results are looking outstanding!
RAGIII
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You're making very good progress, Ian. Good work on the
trestle!
Cheers,
Ernie :)
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Thanks for the feedback gents, much appreciated!
I think I've finally got the torpedo finished - provided I don't knock bits off again! The cradle on the framework is finished, and I finally managed, at the 3rd attempt, to get the release mechanism done. It's a small piece of card, drilled at an angle for a piece of plastic rod. The card was also drilled to accept the wires that hold the torpedo in place. These are from 0.002" nickel-silver rod, which was briefly heated so it holds its shape, then curved around the torpedo. Each of the 2 pieces was CA'd in place, then the "release bracket" was threaded over one end and CA'd in place. When that was dry, the other ends of the wires were CA'd to the other side of the release bracket. It wasn't quite central so I removed the fins and reattached those to line up with the release mechanism - much easier than doing it the other way round! I then added 5 prop blades at the rear, and a small ring from heated brass rod at the front end. Not sure what this was for but it's in pics so I added it.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4002/35654690735_1e86e29920_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4048/35267450200_2dce88ac61_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4074/34813457534_2b411cb993_c.jpg)
Now I only hope I can paint the added parts without knocking anything off......I also touched up the tail pieces this afternoon so hopefully I should get that rigged soon and the torpedo mounted - that should keep it out of the way of my clumsy fingers!
Thanks for looking,
Ian
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Wow absolut stunning build, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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It has been some time since the last time I checked in on you build . She is coming along very well so far ;D
Terri
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Thanks Martin & Terri!
I got the details painted on the torpedo today without breaking anything! I'm now in the process of rigging the tail, then I'll fit and rig the torpedo and float struts....
Ian
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Great work on the torpedo Ian, looking forward to seeing what it looks like mounted on the aeroplane.
Des.
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Thanks Des, hopefully not long to wait now!
I've finished rigging the tail, at the second attempt. I used the same rigging material I've always used, (2lb test line at .005") which I know is overscale but looks OK, and for some reason this time it just looked way too thick......
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4234/35693952225_10fdff9f6e_c.jpg)
so I removed it and replaced it with some 1.5lb line at .002" which is almost correct to scale.....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4098/35306862300_b54e879df0_c.jpg)
I think it looks much better so I'll stick to this in future, even though it's a pain to use - it's so thin I can't focus on it!
Ian
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I will agree with you Ian regarding the size of the rigging line, the smaller one looks much better, well done with the rigging.
Des.
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Your second was great, Ian.
Looks very good.
Cheers
Martin
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She is now armed, if not particularly dangerous!
Torpedo fitted and the cradle and release mechanism rigged with .004" stainless steel wire:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4122/35614973026_28e332ecc5_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4233/35654692645_4fb654a400_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4125/35524306771_7523ea6f62_c.jpg)
I also made a start on the float rigging, adding the cross bracing:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4283/35654659085_c76ec1aa6e_c.jpg)
There are 3 fore-and-aft wires to add on each side of the floats and then they're done.
I was going to add more detail on the fuselage, but having looked through the DF I can't see any evidence of sunlight shining through and showing the formers, so the fuselage and tail decals can go on then maybe a little shadowing, followed by the rigging for the wing support stays, the windscreens, the centre section and its rigging, and the radiator, and that should be about it for the fuselage (doesn't sound too much if you say it quickly!) ...then onto the wings.......
Ian
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Outstanding work on the torpedo and cradle, Ian! Really looks the business.
Cheers,
Bud
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Terrific job on the Torpedo, cradle, and rigging of both the tail and torpedo!
RAGIII
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Great to see the torpedo slung in position and the rigging is looking excellent.
Des.
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Outstanding update, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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I have been away for a week and suddenly a large amount of work is done! This gets better with every update - as one who works in God's Own Scale I can only say that I am lost for words with the detail that you have put into this model. I expect that torpedo to be launched any time soon! Wonderful work.
Stephen.
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Thanks to Bud, RAGIII, Des, Martin & Stephen for your feedback, it's much appreciated!
It's been a long weekend workwise so I haven't got much done, but we're coming to the end of the busy season here on Cape Cod so I hope to get a fair bit further with this in the coming weeks.....
Ian
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Stunning progress, Ian. I watch every single update with a great interest. Very fine modelling!
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Thanks, Prez - praise indeed coming from you!
I finally put a little colour on her today, in the form of the Union Flag and the tail decals. I was going to apply the build number too but when I tried to add them I realised I'd forgotten to seal them! Those have been reprinted and sealed and will be added soon. I have also added the rigging lines for the cabane struts, and finished rigging the floats. Additional details in the form of the tailplane struts and prop decals are also now in place.....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4020/35614919406_b40b1cd572_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4282/35524269411_92910f8233_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4212/35485899682_ab9b791760_c.jpg)
I had to fettle the rudder a little before adding the decals as the gap which should be very evident between the rudder and the top of the tailplane, wasn't there! I sanded the top and both lower edges to let it sit a little higher and now have a gap as it should have. It's only resting in place for the pics and won't be fitted permanently until the aircraft number is added.
Ian
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Looking good, Ian, but you've put the Union Jack on upside down.
Only joking! ;D
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Very nice work, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Looking superb Ian, the decals really look great on this model, getting close to the wing stage.
Des.
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Squiffy, if I hadn't gone to such pains to make sure they were the right way up, you may have given me a heart attack!
Martin and Des, thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.
Ian
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I entirely agree with the others - this is a wonderful model with exquisite detail - simply superb. This will be a stunner when it is complete.
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Thanks, Stephen....I certainly hope it catch the eye at least!
Just a small update. I made a simple jig which can be used both for the upper centre section and the wings, ensuring (hopefully) that they all line up!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4120/35485953212_49acc7f546_c.jpg)
The reprinted tail numbers have been added and clear coated....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4206/34813468024_8b8c3732b2_c.jpg)
and finally today I spent a while cutting out tiny pieces of plastic packaging to make a couple of windscreens......
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4054/35654690075_9b7524ba6f_c.jpg)
amazingly enough, these were the first two I made, and I didn't lose one! They're not perfect but they'll certainly pass muster! Now I need a beer.... :o
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
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Beautiful artistry Ian! ;D
Cheers,
Bob
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Great!!
Cheers
Martin
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Absolutely Brilliant work!
RAGIII
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It just keeps getting better and better Ian, the tail decals are excellent, and how you managed to fit those two tiny tiny windscreens is beyond me, well done.
Des.
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Just delightful Ian. I'm really enjoying this build.
Best wishes
Nigel
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Those tail markings are wonderful. How did you print them? i.e.. where did you find an original to copy or were they supplied in the kit? The windscreens are very good too and I do like the jig - as simple as possible is the most effective method.
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Ian,
Absolutely awesome project my old friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Thanks to all for the comments, they're very much appreciated!
Stephen, the kit comes with a little large selection of manufacturers stencils. I used the ones for the prototype and removed the airframe number. The only part I printed was the S130.
Ian
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A little more progress, due to the fact that I've been off work with a sore throat and hacking cough...hopefully I'll be back at work tomorrow!
oh, and the obligatory "step back" too - I managed to knock the torpedo off! I'd thought long and hard about the order in which to do things, and I think the torpedo should have gone on last, just because it's so difficult to handle the fuselage with it sticking out along the underside. No major damage though, it came off cleanly, even if I did lose a couple of the small brackets. Nothing that's not repairable.
I've got the upper centre section fitted and, finally, square! It seemed that no matter what I did, there was a slight twist to the piece and I couldn't get it to square up. In the end I made another simple jig by gluing a small piece of plastic rod to a piece of card. I made 2 of those, then clamped them to the fuselage sides, one with the rod at the front, the other at the back, to push the centre section square. Then I tightened the stagger wires, clamped them with small clothes pegs, and CA'd them in place. When the jigs were removed the joints held so I made sure the holes through the wings were filled with thin CA to give the joints as much grip as possible. All now dried and trimmed, I just need to touch up the wing surfaces. A little heat treatment sorted the cabane wires underneath which had slackened due to the twist. This is why I prefer to use the drill and thread method of rigging - it adds so much structural strength, just like the real thing.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4086/35654651675_d52bce851e_c.jpg)
The elevators and rudder are now rigged. I had to use .004" wire instead of the .002" as I couldn't get the thinner wire to roll straight. It's too springy, and too thin to heat. It doesn't look bad, in fact it's hard to notice the difference except at certain angles.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4103/34813438324_135933dc46_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4282/35485902102_3a05af3695_c.jpg)
I still need to add some more wires to the fin - there should be 2 more each side from the top of the rudder post to the horizontal stabiliser (1 each side of the elevator horn) which will of course need to be duplicated on the underside, and 1 more from the front rib to the fuselage. Then I need to add 4 bracing wires to each of the wing locking bars.
Finally I added the last of the detail to the radiator in the form of the front and rear pipework. Unfortunately I didn't notice until the fuselage was all together that there should be slots in the top of the cowling through which the coolant manifold extends slightly, to join the radiator plumbing. It's way too late to change that now so it will just look as though the pipes go straight down through the cowling top.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4054/34813437344_17256a900d_c.jpg)
and of course I had to place it in position to see how it looked.....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4234/35524271451_7590edbd5f_c.jpg)
Today I hope to get the tail rigging finished off.....
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
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Brilliant work, Ian! She's shaping up beautifully.
Cheers,
Bud
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That is first class modelling there. Never mind about the radiator pipes as I bet that 99% of people would not even notice - even less know!
Stephen.
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Brilliant work, Ian! She's shaping up beautifully.
Cheers,
Bud
I agree with Bud! Beautiful work!
RAGIII
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Outstanding work, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Superb work with the tail rigging Ian, I didn't realize that the rigging was so complex, the rigging always brings the model to life. The radiator sitting in position really shows its size, sort of blocks the forward view for the pilot, excellent work to date Ian.
Des.
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Thanks, Gents, all your feedback is greatly appreciated!
Des, the tail rigging is indeed complex, although it's nothing compared to what's to come on the wings..... it's also now finished!
The last of the fin bracing wires and the wing locking bar brace wires are all now in place - let's hope they stay that way....I've spent much time on this one replacing and repairing previous work. I need to plan much better next time!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4135/35654706685_38db4f106a_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4209/35524315361_968e45e509_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4100/34813463204_7cd10e4cbb_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4148/34813456254_c630e5729f_c.jpg)
Thanks for following.
Ian
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The tail rigging looks great, Ian. It's very much in-scale and adds a lot of interest!
George
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Beautiful work on that tail rigging Ian! This is such a stunning piece of work. I am really looking forward to the next update!
RAGIII
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Outstanding tailrigging!
Cheers
Martin
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George, Rick, Martin - thanks so much for the feedback - it's always good to get a second (or 3rd) opinion!
The fuselage assembly is now complete! The torpedo has been refitted and all missing rigging lines and mounts have been replaced. Hopefully it will stay that way! The radiator is also now permanently mounted. All that is left is to add the prop and the sling over the upper centre section, those will be added after the wings are on.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4257/35654689535_7d78909960_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4079/34813466814_0fb3be1372_c.jpg)
I've now started on the wing struts....a first dry fit:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4207/34813436494_9ae5cd546c_c.jpg)
This shows the struts are a fraction (about 0.5mm) too long so they will be trimmed and a second dry fit done to check the fit against the fuselage/centre section. If that shows the lengths to be ok I will then angle the ends correctly and shorten the rear strut "fairings" (ie plastic strut) to leave the brass rod exposed for a couple of mm at the lower end. The rear strut fairings stopped short on the real thing, especially the centre one, which allowed it to fasten to the wing locking brace when folded.
Ian
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Been following closely.Wow! this is truly a labour of love,your doing a great job sir!
-
Exellent update, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Those wings look excellent Ian, the CDL colour looks really good, glad to see the torpedo hanging in position again.
Des.
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The wing looks awesome! Truly looks as though you are seeing ribs through linen!
RAGIII
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I agree about the wings looking translucent - just the kind of finish that I would like to achieve but cannot!!!
Stephen.
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Thanks for the comments gents, much appreciated.
Not much in the way of photogenic progress, but progress is being made. I spent this afternoon drilling holes....40 in each of the upper wings! Lower wings still to do.
I also had one of those "eureka" moments....I was trying to work out how the ailerons were rigged but couldn't for the life of me see how they were done. Then I reread the Datafile and one single sentence led to the light coming on - it referred to the prototype 184 which had ailerons on the upper wing only and no return spring so they drooped when the plane was sitting on the ground. This caused too much drag during taxi and the takeoff run so bungees were fitted to return them to the neutral position - the comment was made that they then only had downward movement - that was the key! Even when the ailerons were added to the lower wings they still only had downward movement! There is one single control line exiting the cockpit just behind the lower wing hinge and running along the upper surface of the wing to a couple of guide wheels by the mid and outer rear struts which angle the line up to pull the upper aileron down. This aileron has cables attached to its upper side which run forward to the leading edge, down through both wings and back to the underside of the lower aileron. Thus when the upper aileron is deflected down, it pulls the lower one down too! There are 2 bungees connecting the top of the lower aileron to the upper wing which then pull the lower aileron up to neutral when control pressure is released, and through the same linkage, therefore pull the upper aileron up to neutral too! Very simple, but it took me a while to figure it out...now I can rig them correctly!
Ian
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Ian,
Your wings are a thing of beauty my old friend.I can hardly wait to see her all rigged.Keep up your outstanding progress.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
PS: Almost forgot to mention your outstanding work on her fuselage,floats and that awesome torpedo.
-
That aileron control system reads like a real Heath Robinson job……..but it worked! So much of that early aviation was relatively simple but no less effective.
Excellent model.
-
Thanks Gregory and Stephen, much appreciated!
I'm determined to finish this before the deadline next month...looking good at the moment!
I now have all the rigging holes drilled - and I only broke 2 drill bits! I spent a couple of hours this afternoon setting up the right wings in the jig and making sure they aligned with the fuselage and centre section.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4212/35524336301_de13b65e67_c.jpg)
The upper wing was then removed, the struts epoxied into place in the lower wing, and the upper wing replaced to hold the struts while they dried. Once they were secure the upper was was removed again and the struts were painted. The jury strut at the inboard end which supported the wings when folded will be added later.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4019/35654688515_5aab6c4911_c.jpg)]
That's it for tonight, I hope to get the upper wing permanently attached tomorrow....
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
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Looking better and better with each update Ian, looking forward to seeing the wings mounted to the fuselage.
Des.
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Very good work, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Very interesting and more very good modelling. This gem really is nearing completion now.
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Very impressive, Ian, you are doing some REAL MODELLING here! I struggle with a regular Kit when it comes to alignment and using a jig for assembly (same one as yours), a Scratch Built like this amazes me in that perspective.
Wonderful work, and a pleasure to follow your progress.
Cheers,
Lance
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Great work Ian
The jig looks suspiciously like the Aeroclub one. I too am really looking forward to seeing the wings one it.
Cheers, Alan.
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Thanks for all the feedback folks - it is indeed an Aeroclub jig.
Well, as you can probably guess, the upper wing did not go on "tomorrow"....in fact it still isn't on. After I'd posted the pic above I realized that the struts looked far too thick...or more accurately, they WERE too thick. So yesterday, when I finally had a day off, I removed them and sanded them all down. I am now back to where I was, but with struts that are much more acceptable!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4020/35267448800_77040468c2_c.jpg)
Ian
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Great!!
Cheers
Martin
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Cudos for taking the time to get it right!
Cheers from NYC,
Michael
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Your eye for detail and realism is impeccable Ian, even though the struts appeared to look perfectly okay before they now look superb, well done.
Des.
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Thanks for all the feedback folks - it is indeed an Aeroclub jig.
Well, as you can probably guess, the upper wing did not go on "tomorrow"....in fact it still isn't on. After I'd posted the pic above I realized that the struts looked far too thick...or more accurately, they WERE too thick. So yesterday, when I finally had a day off, I removed them and sanded them all down. I am now back to where I was, but with struts that are much more acceptable!
(http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z424/Ian_Brand/001_35.jpg)
Ian
Strut profiles can make or break a model! great that you took care of this vital detail.
-
Your attention to detail, especially very fine detail, is impeccable! I just wish that I had the patience!!
Stephen.
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Hi all, thanks for the feedback! Needless to say this won't be finished by the deadline. I've been working 6 day weeks for the last month or so and it doesn't look as though that will change any time soon.
Anyway, I got off early yesterday so....removed all the struts again! Somehow despite measuring and remeasuring, the wing was about 1/2 mm too high. The struts were all remeasured and a couple were corrected, and they have all been refitted. Hopefully today will see the top wing on at last...or at least, the left one...still have to do all this again for the other side!
Ian
-
Thanks for having this build moved from the GB board, I am looking forward to seeing this magnificent build completed.
Des.
-
Whilst waiting for filler etc to dry on the MoS Type N build, I finally made a start on rigging this beast....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4285/35524298551_f7235039a6_c.jpg)
I will have to widen the jig to get the outer bays done, but I want to get the inner bay finished to hold it all in the right place before I do that.
Ian
-
Nice start on the rigging Ian. Good to see you are still working on this beautiful model!
RAGIII
-
Excellent work on the rigging so far, what size line do you use for 1:72 scale Ian.
Des.
-
Rigging a Short 184 in 1/72? Wow, I'm going to stop moaning about rigging in 1/32! :-[
George
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Des, I'm using 1lb test mono for this one. It's .002" and I have to mark the ends with a black sharpie so I can see it to thread it through the holes - and that's after I've run it across a silver one to colour it!
Ian
-
Good beginning to rigg your plane Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Very nice work Ian. Are those aerojigs still available?
-
Toby, I believe an updated version was introduced recently. John (Aeroclub) can be contacted through the Britmodeller forum where he has an online "store".
Ian
-
Hi all,
I finished the centre bay and removed the wing assembly from the jig today to start on the inner and outer bays - I'm not looking forward to that one!
Of course, I had to test my concept of building the wings separately to see if it works....
it would appear that it does! ;D
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4266/34813465094_68bdee81a9_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4258/35614935686_493ab8ce88_c.jpg)
The wings are sitting a little low at the rear but when they're attached properly they will be where they should be. The elevators will need to be lowered a little too, but the rear stay matches the struts perfectly so I'm very happy with it. Now I can look forward to the rigging.... :o
Ian
-
This is exellent Ian.
Cheers
Martin
-
Outstanding work! This one is really going to be Brilliant!
RAGIII
-
Superb Ian, many would easily be mistaken to think this was a much larger scale, excellent work.
Des.
-
Great modelling, Ian. I can't wait to see it completed.
-
It's been a while since I checked in, Ian, you're doing wonders with this Build. It's already spectacular, I'm looking forward to the finished version.
Cheers,
Lance
-
That does look very good indeed.
-
Wonderful job Ian
It is great to see it with one of the wings attached. Are they going to be folded when finished?
Alan.
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Thanks for all the positive comments, they are much appreciated!
Al, the wing is only dry fitted to make sure that it does indeed line up with everything, and yes, they will be folded. That's what has caused all the headaches - trying to make sure that the wings actually match the fuselage/centre section and will mount correctly when done....looks like I've cracked it - at least on the right wings!
I finished off the structural rigging today, including the much dreaded outer bay with its very unusual crossed-over rigging, and tied-up landing wires - Very pleased with the result! The landing wires were done by adding one line top-to-bottom at the outer struts, then tying another line around them at a measured distance from the bottom (fixed) point. A dot of ca to secure the knot in the correct place, then the wires were tensioned, held in place with my little dolls-house pegs, and secured with CA. Seems to have worked so I'll use a similar technique for the aileron rigging.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4236/34845550873_068f35e118_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4257/35654687535_a7ae11159d_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4205/35524296971_64e27972c7_c.jpg)
Ian
-
Beautiful job with the somewhat complex rigging Ian, these finishing touches really make the model come to life.
Des.
-
Beautiful rigging! You are getting close now to having this beauty finished :D
RAGIII
-
Awesome work all 'round, Ian, especially that intricate rigging!
Cheers,
Bud
-
Great rigging Ian.
Cheers
Martin
-
Ian,
Now that's some outstanding rigging my old friend. Well trained spider's ? Well Done.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
-
This is spider exploitation! Where is the poor arachnid you chained up to serve you?
Beware of the Spider Workers Trade Union!
:o ...fantastic Ian!
-
He has more to worry about from my big feet...he's much safer working on the wings.....
Ian
-
I got a good start on the port wings today. They went together a hell of a lot quicker than the first side. I also got the struts painted and the incidence wires done. Hopefully I'll be able to finish most of the rest of the rigging tomorrow and start tidying up the top wings ready for the decals.
Ian
-
That is very impressive indeed especially in that scale.
-
Wonderful work, Sir!
A real treat, this is.
-
Missed the last few episodes of this. My that is just amazingly outstanding rigging. Makes my efforts puny by comparison. That could easily be 1/32 scale.
Stephen.
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Been awhile since I last comment and I must say Ian . This has been a joy watching this come together so far :)
Terri
-
+1 -amazing work!
-
Hi all,
Thanks for all the positive feedback, it's much appreciated!
I finally managed to get the structural rigging completed today. It took a lot longer than anticipated, mainly because I kept having completed lines pop out and would then have to remove them, redrill the holes, and refit them. Hopefully they are all now secure....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4280/35614980966_4df7e9ba05_c.jpg)
Now on to tidying up the upper surfaces, repainting as necessary, and adding the decals. Then it will be the floats, and aileron rigging to complete the wings....
Ian
-
Superb job with the wing rigging Ian, the finish line is now very close.
Des.
-
That is some difficult rigging. You've done a great job with it!
I'm all too familiar with lines popping out. >:( I read recently that PrzemoL does a pull test with each anchor point before he rigs to prevent those issues. I'll be doing that from now on too. :D
George
-
Superb job on the rigging!
RAGIII
-
This is amazing!! :o!!
Wowww!!
-
Remarkable work on the rigging, Ian! Looking forward to seeing her finished.
Cheers,
Bud
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Thanks for the feedback gents, much appreciated!
George - I do a pull test too, the problem is that I'm rigging the wings separately from the fuselage so there's a little more flex than normal. It doesn't help when the wings slip in my fingers and I stick my thumb through them either.... ::) To that end I just ordered the 3rd hand mentioned in another thread...that should certainly help with the aileron rigging!
Ian
-
Thanks for the feedback gents, much appreciated!
George - I do a pull test too, the problem is that I'm rigging the wings separately from the fuselage so there's a little more flex than normal. It doesn't help when the wings slip in my fingers and I stick my thumb through them either.... ::) To that end I just ordered the 3rd hand mentioned in another thread...that should certainly help with the aileron rigging!
Ian
I just ordered the Third Hand also. It shipped today and should arrive by Wednesday! Just in time to put under the tree. ;)
George
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Great job ,Ian!What kind of thread is that?
-
Matz, it's 1.5lb monofilament. It has a little stretch in it too so works very well, just difficult to see. I can't remember the brand, it's a Japanese one. I'll check when I get home.
Ian
-
I use Hardys or Froghair copolymer for rigging and attempting to catch trout.
That is some seriously good rigging you've done there Ian
-
OK, I just checked the brand. It's Gamakatsu Super G-Line with a 0.7kg/1.5lb test. Measures at 0.06mm.
I don't think it's available in the US, I ordered it and had it sent to my Dad in England who forwarded it to me!
Ian
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hi Ian! I've used a similar fishing line before,Kormoran or something like that.Although 0.06mm sure is to scale I prefer rigging with thicker stuff,the reason is I always display my models as part of a diorama and not as stand- alone models.Much detail gets lost when viewed against a vivid background,that's why I stick to invisible thread(0.1mm ) for structural rigging .To prevent the lines from slipping through I secure them with`dowels'made from heatstretched sprue or even toothpicks.Lately I've become a bit lazy,to avoid drilling I use Uschi's standard elastic... Rigging my latest Gotha I laid a line loose over the anchor points in the lower wing,glued in the struts and stretched the line to the top of the strut ,fixed with a tiny drop of CA.It works!
-
A brilliant model of a beautiful plane! I`m in a deep admiration of your skills especially given the scale. Both shading and the rigging looks top notch.
-
Exellent rigging Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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Ian,
what a super job of rigging you've done there. If you don't mind, I've got a couple of questions for you:
- I take it you're pulling the thread through a hole drilled in the wing? I assume the wings are already painted on their upper surface. How do you clip or cut off the thread without harming the finish that is already there, AND how do you finish off the resulting hole? (I know Prze uses filler and paints the upper wing, as illustrated on his excellent SE5 build some time back, is that how you do it?)
- The rigging where you have to lines coming together, join, and then go on as one line (forgive me as I can't recall the technical term for that), how do you accomplish that? How do you keep it even, straight, and consistent?
Thanks! This is a gorgeous build in my favorite scale.
Warren
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Hi Warren,
Yes, I do drill and thread, normally drilling through both wings so I can ensure a good grip in the lower wing. If the finish is a tricky one, such as this, or lozenge, I drill part way into the wing which will be the most difficult to touch up afterwards - with lozenge this will usually be the upper wing as the underside of the lower will be less visible. With this build I part drilled the lower wing so I wouldn't have to touch up the underside with the shadow effect. I then trim the excess line with the tip of a new blade on my scalpel - I barely have to touch the line to cut through it so there is no extra damage done. The hole should be almost invisible and a tiny touch of filler and dab of paint should be enough to hide it. In this case, with so many holes so close together I may have to give the wing upper surface a quick blow over with the airbrush to ensure an even finish.
The joined lines are simply tied with a single knot. The line I'm using is very thin (0.06mm or 2thou) so the knot is almost invisible. I fixed the lower end of the upright wire and when that was dry, I tied the long wire to it at a measured distance up from the bottom (fixed) end. After the knot was tied I added a tiny spot of CA to hold it. The lines were then tensioned with small clothes pegs (for a dolls house!) to hold them tight (at the top of the vertical end wire, and the top of the diagonal wire), and adjusted to ensure the knot was in the middle of the vertical wire. When they were in the right place I fixed them with a dab of ca glue and left it all to harden properly.
I hope that helps....it's a little difficult to describe clearly!
Ian
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Yes Ian, it helps a lot. This is the method I used for the aileron control cables on my Triplane builds years ago. I really must get a scalpel.
Thank you very much for taking the time, you're a braver man than I sir.
Warren
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Hi all,
I've finally managed to finish tidying up the wings after the rigging without pulling out any more lines (well, ok, I pulled out 3 more and fixed them, but no more since.....) The upper surfaces have been cleaned up and given a light spray over to hide any trace of the holes, and the decals are on.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4022/35654705705_cd04be3d76_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4240/35654685895_21be362884_c.jpg)
Tomorrow should see a bit of dulling down on the upper surface of the top wings, then a dull coat. Then it's "just" the aileron rigging to do.....
Ian
-
You have done a superb job with the rigging Ian.
Des.
-
Very nice job on the rigging Ian :)
Terri
-
Extraordinary rigging! This is continuing to be an inspiring build!
RAGIII
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Ian, your work continues to inspire me to get to the workbench and produce a wonder. Beautiful work sir.
Warren
-
No other words like Rick, Ian.
Cheers
Martin
-
I have not been keeping a close enough eye on this one….. Wonderful work as usual - this will without doubt be a stunner when complete. I am on the edge of my seat in anticipation - just hope I do not fall off before it is finished.
Stephen.
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Ian,
Truly inspiring work my old friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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I'm truly humbled by the comments, thanks to all for the feedback and compliments!
Nothing done today due to spending most of it installing a new HDTV and internet modem, then setting up a new network and changing all the passwords etc on all my devices!
More tomorrow I hope!
Ian
-
I got back to this again today...I've been putting it off because I really wasn't looking forward to this job!
I punched out 12 1mm discs and then bent some PE control horns to make the pulleys for the aileron control cables... (shown here next to the end of a toothpick)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4150/35524295511_7be2b60cac_c.jpg)
These were then fitted, along with unbent (I hope!) control horns and I am going to leave those overnight to ensure they are secure before a dab of paint and a start on threading them all to rig the things! One thing's certain, designers back then had NO sympathy for future model makers!
The ailerons on this aircraft were a little unusual as they had no upward movement! The pilot could deflect the upper ailerons downwards, and these, via cables and pulleys, would pull the lower ailerons down also. Rubber bungees attached to the lower ailerons would then return the whole setup back to the neutral position when control pressure (probably considerable) was released.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4285/34813455524_52654bc9c5_c.jpg)
Thanks for looking in, time for a pint after that lot!
Ian
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Ian,
Absolutely amazing aileron pulleys! I can understand why you were dreading this task my old friend. You're much braver than I . Keep up the outstanding high level of excellence.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
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Outstanding scratch building of the fine details on the pulleys!
RAGIII
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Nice job on those details Ian 8)
Terri
-
Exellent scratch parts!
Cheers
Martin
-
I like the attention to detail and can also appreciate what a fiddly task making those pulleys must have been.
-
Ian, your build just keeps getting better and better sir.
Warren
-
Incredible detail Ian, what a pleasure to follow work like this!
Cheers,
Lance
-
Great job making all those little pulleys Ian.
Des.
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I got "Boris" (the spider) back to work today and he's made a start on the aileron rigging:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4212/35614977886_3489a02147_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4240/35267432040_c427e7b329_c.jpg)
I'm off (weather permitting) tomorrow evening back to the UK for a couple of weeks to help my little brother celebrate his 50th, so I'll "see" you all in 2 weeks!
Ian
-
Fantastic work Ian! I think John Entwistle would be proud of his spider friend helping you...
-
Truly inspirational!
-
Outstanding work Ian.
Cheers
Martin
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The mind boggles at the thought of making those pulleys - let alone rigging them! That would have been an achievement in 1/32 scale - in God's Own Scale it is little short of a miracle.
Stephen.
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Hi all,
Back from 2 weeks in England/Guernsey to help my "little" brother celebrate his 50th, and have got to the final stage of the aileron rigging on the starboard wings. It would have been so much easier if I'd fitted the control horns securely but I had only stuck them onto the aileron surface and of course they keep falling off! In future I will cut a small notch in the aileron leading edge and slip the horns into that to give them something to bite on.
The rigging consists of the one continuous line shown in the previous post, plus one short line tied to that on each of the 4 control horns, and another tied mid-point on the line from the lower pulley up to the top wing. Each end of these lines is then threaded through holes in the ailerons to give a total of 6 lines to each of the upper and lower faces of the upper aileron, and the lower face of the lower aileron. Sound complicated....it is...my eyes are getting a little squinty!
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4282/34813452754_8f4c2ef5a9_c.jpg)
I'm going to leave those to cure properly before attempting to tighten them up and finish them off.
Then it will be the port wings' turn.....
Ian
-
What a tangled web we weave - looking really good Ian, I'm sure it will all tighten up nicely.
Des.
-
Another milestone reached today - the starboard wings are complete! I finished off the rigging without further mishap, got them all nice and taught, only to find that there is now a slight hint of slack in the main aileron lines, but I can live with that and put it down to the fact that there could well have been a little slack when the wings were folded......
maintaining tension while the ca hardens: First one tensioning the upper aileron wires, second one the lower ones...
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4063/35654703965_c16d13db2d_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4280/35654684085_036ca00874_c.jpg)
all trimmed up:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4236/34813454884_9fe8f553c5_c.jpg)
and finally with the tip float attached:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4043/35614929596_ac35f7e879_c.jpg)
I'll make a start on the port wing aileron rigging tomorrow, and will follow a slightly different order as a result of lessons learned on the first one!
Thanks for looking in!
Ian
-
Exellent rigging Ian.
Cheers
Martin
-
You have done a superb job Ian.
Des.
-
The mind boggles at the complexity of that rigging….makes any pusher look easy and even the Etrich Taube was straightforward by comparison. That is simply first class with bells and whistles! I both admire and respect your patience and skill.
Stephen.
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I'm just sitting here shaking my head in wonderment. (Is that a word?)
-
Ian,that rigging is one of the best I've ever seen! Simply Fantastic!
-
Ian,that rigging is one of the best I've ever seen! Simply Fantastic!
I agree completely!
RAGIII
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Thank you very much, gents, that is praise indeed coming from you all, and much appreciated, although it really isn't that complicated, it just needed a plan! I have at least 7 pushers, 2 Caudrons and 2 Taubes in the stash and I'm still a little wary of starting those just yet, although rigging this one has certainly proved the concept and that I can achieve the finish I want with them.
I finished the second pair of wings today with only a couple of minor mishaps: for some reason the outer upper aileron wire went slack when the extra wire was added - it was definitely taught when it was fitted! A little heat took care of the worst of it and as with the other side, I can live with a little slack on that wire anyway. Worse was one of the lower aileron wires under the wing popped after I'd trimmed it so there's no way to repair it. Fortunately it's underneath and not very visible.
The big day is coming......
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4064/35614976466_c9e915faca_c.jpg)
Tomorrow should see a start on getting the wings mounted, but I need to come up with some way of supporting them, both while I adjust the fit, (hopefully without popping any of the rigging off!) and while they set. I'm thinking of using 5 minute epoxy to give me a little "fiddle" time.....
Ian
-
Looking great Ian!
There just might be enough wire on this one to start your own phone company!
Can't wait for the finish, on the edge of my seat...
John
-
Quite simply...AWESOME!
RAGIII
-
Stunning Ian, can't wait to see the wings fitted.
Des.
-
drum roll.......
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4283/35267431150_c190548133_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4253/35614942186_3393b1c90b_c.jpg)
;D ;D
and no major damage! One control horn came off, one set of aileron wires popped off their control horn, and I knocked a tip float off - forgot it stuck out in front of the wing when I turned it over! Nothing not easily remedied...provided I can now figure out how to move the damn thing safely!
I also seem to have made a couple of small errors earlier which very nearly bit me.... when I assembled and rigged the wings I forgot about the dihedral so they sit a little too low at the rear, and the horizontal tail appears to be very slightly tilted, the two together resulting in the rigging just touching the tail on one side. I'm not even going to attempt to correct it, it's not too noticeable, and given how complex this build has been I'm very happy indeed with the way it's all come together!
Tomorrow I will put right the little things that got damaged today, then attempt to attach the drag wires from the rear inner cabanes to the fuselage, and insert the aileron cables in their holes on the fuselage sides. I then need to figure out how to make the sling that needs to be added on the upper centre section, and add the 4 rigging wires that were disconnected to fold the wings: drag wires from the upper inner and middle cabane attachments to the nose, which will be attached to each other at their loose ends and left to hang, and 2 more under the wings which would attach to the float struts. I'll curl the rigging thread around on itself into a small loop and then attach one end, letting it hang under the wing.
Last of all, add the prop, and she's done!
Ian
-
You're a brave, brave man. Well done sir!
Warren
-
Thanks Warren. But remember, the line between bravery and stupidity is VERY thin, and it's usually the outcome which dictates which side of it you're on!
Ian
-
"drum roll......."
Ian, they haven't yet built a drum big enough to sound the accolades your build deserves.
If it's the result of stupidity then I say, bring it on! ;D
-
"drum roll......."
Ian, they haven't yet built a drum big enough to sound the accolades your build deserves.
If it's the result of stupidity then I say, bring it on! ;D
I have to agree! Just superb Modeling!
RAGIII
-
"drum roll......."
Ian, they haven't yet built a drum big enough to sound the accolades your build deserves.
If it's the result of stupidity then I say, bring it on! ;D
I have to agree! Just superb Modeling!
RAGIII
+1! That's real modelling! Magnificent 8) 8)
Cheers,
Lance
-
It is an outstanding build Lance.
Cheers
Martin
-
Thanks very much to all, your comments are very much appreciated....
and now.... having fitted the wings yesterday, today I mended the few items that got hurt during the operation, then connected up the aileron control and rear drag wires (THAT was tricky, working in between the existing rigging!), added the "loose" wires that were disconnected at one end to enable the wings to be folded, and fitted the prop....
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4236/34813477054_8f473e4527_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4231/34813454334_8368153bb7_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4263/35654656585_ee0b3056b9_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4035/35654655175_1bebcaae6a_c.jpg)
I'll leave the prop to dry overnight, then tomorrow I need to make a sling, paint the wing fold mechanisms, and do a little touching-up, and that's it! Next pics will be in the completed model section! Thanks once again to everyone who has followed and kept me on track with your supportive and encouraging comments!
Ian
-
Absolutely sublime Ian, a truly amazing build from start to finish.
Des.
-
Truly awesome work, Ian!
Cheers,
Bud
-
Wow only this word Ian. What a lovely bird. ;D 8)
Cheers
Martin
-
Thanks gents!
A small "porky" (for those outside London: "pork pie" = lie) in the last post...I have now, after a year on the bench, finished this one! However, with the light too poor for decent pics I thought I'd post a couple here now, and then post some better ones tomorrow in the completed section.
Here she is:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4099/35654701945_5abd28f7fc_c.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4042/35524310201_ababf1b2aa_c.jpg)
Ian
-
Ian,
Has it really a year under construction ? No matter she's absolutely awesome my old friend. Congratulations and Well Done.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
-
Thanks Gregory, much appreciated!
It is almost exactly 1 year, the first progress pics were posted on Feb 24th last year!
Ian
-
yes, excellent, bravo!
-
Dont drop it!
-
Doesn't seem like a year ago ! That being said it was certainly a year spent on creating a magnificent Model! I have truly enjoyed watching this one progress fro start to finish.
RAGIII
-
Outstanding. A year well spent.
-
I agree, it does not seem like a year.
Well done Ian, an excellent build. I wish it was on my shelf not yours.
Alan.
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Just a magnificent effort, Ian! The time involved really pales when you
look upon such a result. Congratulations on a true jewel, my friend!
Cheers,
Ernie :)
-
I won't stand out of the crowd with what I have to say... I think the back bird turned out beautifully and given the scale and the level of complexity of the plane itself I'm full of admiration.