forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com
WW1 Aircraft Modeling => WW1 Aircraft Information/Questions => Topic started by: WarrenD on December 29, 2014, 05:18:31 AM
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All,
Michel showed us just how great painted on markings were in his WNW Roland buid thread down below. He's used a Silhouette machine and Oramask paper.
Has anyone else done this? My primary interest is in 1/72nd, and I've got some kits (Eduard's Nie. 17 springs to mind) that have great decals, but the colors don't quite strike me as right. (No accounting for taste, I know.) Any-who, I figured if I could get some roundel sizes mapped out, I could cut masks for my roundels till the cows come home, Yes, I know an industrious man could do this with an Olfa cutter and various diameters of brass tube, but the lazy man in me just wants the convenience of having the same size maks spitting out of a machine.
Thoughts? Experience with doing this?
Warren
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All,
Michel showed us just how great painted on markings were in his WNW Roland buid thread down below. He's used a Silhouette machine and Oramask paper.
Has anyone else done this? My primary interest is in 1/72nd, and I've got some kits (Eduard's Nie. 17 springs to mind) that have great decals, but the colors don't quite strike me as right. (No accounting for taste, I know.) Any-who, I figured if I could get some roundel sizes mapped out, I could cut masks for my roundels till the cows come home, Yes, I know an industrious man could do this with an Olfa cutter and various diameters of brass tube, but the lazy man in me just wants the convenience of having the same size maks spitting out of a machine.
Thoughts? Experience with doing this?
Warren
Yes, lots of us are doing this. :)
If you check out my Albatros (http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=328.735) and/or Fokker (http://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/index.php?topic=3778.0) build logs I show all sorts of things I do with my Silver Bullet (which is like a Silhouette on steroids). Masks are only one thing - mine cuts plastic and even sheet metal.
Don't know the specs on the Silhouette, but the resolution on the SB is certainly good enough to do national markings etc in /72.
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Backing sheet from . . . . ?
My apologies to Michel and other list members for taking Michel's wonderful build thread off topic. I'll start a new thread for this so as not to disrupt.
Warren
Moved from Michel's topic :)
You attach the workpiece (paper, plastic, vinyl, metal) to the cutting table with dots of adhesive that come in large sheets, which you cut to size as needed. You are left with wonderful piles of backing paper that tape will just stick to.
I'll make pictures for you of the whole process if you are interested.
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Bo, yes, I'm interested. About how much does the Silver Bullet run?
Warren
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A few examples --I'll do a step by step a bit later (after the big game;) )
Tiny parts scribed onto brass sheet for cutting
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps28b0a6e9.jpg)
Metal cowling panels cut out of beer can aluminum with SB
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zpsd49dec88.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zpse2ef89ed.jpg)
Masks from kabuki tape:
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zpsd94f49c3.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps1356f835.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zpse8e45363.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps41187863.jpg)
Paper masks:
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps3cd15544.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps5a912fc8.jpg)
Texture decals cut to fit panels on Albatros wings and tail:
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zpsbaa1700a.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps011d762f.jpg)
Cutting plastic:
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zpsc3a69a26.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zpsd95a18e8.jpg)
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This is what wet my appetite.
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79025-a-guide-to-using-the-silhouette-cameo-cutter/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79025-a-guide-to-using-the-silhouette-cameo-cutter/)
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Thanks GCN!
'
Warren
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Here is a link to a feature comparison chart of many cutters on the market today. Note that the chart appears on Silver Bullet's site, so take that into consideration if you wish, but I believe it is compiled by an independent source based on the disclaimer at the bottom of the page. I've seen the same chart elsewhere but I can't find a link at the moment.
http://silverbulletcutters.com/comparison-chart/
The SB 13" is the machine I have. It is probably the most expensive machine of it's size; the reviews said you get what you pay for, and I was especially drawn to the massive force the SB can exert -- I had cutting (thin) sheet metal in mind from day 1. Also factoring into my decision was the fact that the other highly rated higher end machine in this size class -- the KNK Maxx 15" -- was backordered about 3 months at the time. The fact that the SB is made in the USA didn't hurt either.
Here is a review of the SB 13"; it conforms with my experience:
http://die-cutting-machines-review.toptenreviews.com/silver-bullet-review.html
I have no axe to grind against any of the other machines, and if you are just interested in cutting masks, I think many of the entry level products will do the job and then some.
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Wow! My brain just went into warp-drive looking at what Bo has created and thinking of the applications to my model building and my "real job". Holy Moly. The possibilities.
I'm afraid the Silver Bullet is out of my price range at the moment.
The Portrait is available on eBay for as low as $125.00.
Hmmmmm.......
Warren, thanks for starting this thread and thanks Bo for all the info.
Michael
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As promised, a step by step making masks on a die cutting machine with Tamiya "kabuki" tape.
The machine comes with a cutting matt with a renewable adhesive surface. In most cases you apply your work material to the adhesive matt and shove it into the machine. And you can do this with tape, too, but getting it up from the matt without ruining is going to be difficult. The solution is to tape a piece of the backing paper that comes with the adhesive refills to the matt (the backing paper won't stick to the adhesive on the matt on either side.)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps36712172.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps2baa1532.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps2b436308.jpg)
Now you place the tamiya tape onto the backing, and insert the whole shebang into the machine. You line up the head with the lower right hand corner of the tape, using the controls on the cutter, and lock that in as the 0,0 point.
On the Bullet only a very light cutting force of 15 (it goes up to 255, which = 1250 grams) is required for kabuki tape. Force and speed can be set with controls on the cutter or via software.
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps47d7023d.jpg)
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps17653de6.jpg)
You can design your work in just about anything that can save .svg files. The software that comes with your machine will allow you to create designs, too. I do all my design work in Adobe Illustrator, albeit an ancient version; it is extremely precise and powerful. The first step is to set up a document size that represents the cutable area -- in this case about 1.5 inches tall x 7 inches wide. Here I am making some Spade masks for my Fokker:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20603255/Screen%20Shot%202014-12-29%20at%202.43.49%20PM.png)
The next step is to fire up the software that comes with the machine -- in this case "Sure Cuts A Lots" aka SCAL. The file is imported and positioned on the virtual cutting table. There are various ways you can set the registration between the virtual cutting table and the workpiece; the easiest way is to set 0.0 on the machine as I did earlier and let the software work relative to that. So -- the picture on the screen doesn't match where the work is actually taped to the cutting table...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20603255/Screen%20Shot%202014-12-29%20at%202.50.28%20PM.png)
Next -- you hit "cut" and adjust a few things like the number of passes and blade offset.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20603255/Screen%20Shot%202014-12-29%20at%202.51.00%20PM.png)
Light stuff like Kabuki tape does not require multiple passes. In a few seconds your design is cut out.
(http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh640/UncleTony1917/file_zps7bf10561.jpg)
You can't see them, but there are 3 more perfect little spade masks cut on the tape. Gently lift them up and apply...
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Bo,
Thanks so much for all of this information, it is MUCH appreciated sir! I just wanted to cut some masks for painting national insignia, etc, but WOW! Like Michael, my head is spinning just thinking of the possibilities you have pointed out.
Michael, I'm glad I started it too!
Warren
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Couple more threads showing their use
http://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/1925-wnw-dviif-wilhelm-hipperts-mimmi/
http://www.modellbaufreunde.net/news/229-schneidplotter-fuer-modellbauer.html
The second link needs to be put through a translator unless your German is up to scratch.
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Thanks very much Bo for your informative tutorial, I'm learning more and more about these machines every day.
Des.
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OK.....I am not usually a knee jerk response kinda guy but......well....my Silhouette cutter just arrived!! (Talk about fast service!)
Wish me luck...techno is definitely not my thing......but I can learn.
Happy New Year from NYC,
Michael
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Good deal! Whatcha gonna cut first?
Warren
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Attaboy Michael
My first cuts will be lozenge masks for my hannover and cookie cutting Aviattic lozenge for the wings using the kit decals as templates.
One of the things i'm most looking forward to is either loz rib tapes or the masking strips for rib tapes. That will certainly be a job not missed.
Gary
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OK, guys...well I am two full weeks behind schedule. The machine is still in the box but I am hoping to fire it up and test drive it tomorrow.
Cheers,
Michael
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I've bought the illustrator plug in, which works well.
Steepest learning curve was working out how illustrator worked. I've done all the lozenge masks for my hannover and I'm now on my third colour.
I've also done wheel masks and rib tapes.
I found Tamiya tape better for lozenge but I think Frisket film will be better for small numbers and letters.
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Well, I am off to a lousy start......followed the directions letter by letter, put the CD in the drive, and it just sat there making a "chunk, chunk, chunk", sound repeatedly. I will freely state that techno is not my thing although I am determined to learn.
I assume this just means my CD Ron drive is not reading the CD? I have a call in to the help desk at Silhouette but they say it could be up to 24 hrs before they respond...on a weekday.....this being Friday and Monday being a Holiday...well.....crud.
Man...talk about a failure to launch.
Anybody have any suggestions?
Jeers from NYC,
Michael
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Well, I am off to a lousy start......followed the directions letter by letter, put the CD in the drive, and it just sat there making a "chunk, chunk, chunk", sound repeatedly. I will freely state that techno is not my thing although I am determined to learn.
I assume this just means my CD Ron drive is not reading the CD? I have a call in to the help desk at Silhouette but they say it could be up to 24 hrs before they respond...on a weekday.....this being Friday and Monday being a Holiday...well.....crud.
Man...talk about a failure to launch.
Anybody have any suggestions?
Jeers from NYC,
Michael
Buy a Silver Bullet? :P
Just kidding, but I found their customer service /response time to be absolutely amazing. They sent me the wrong table and when I inquired I got a email from the owner within minutes and a replacement table overnighted to me, all no questions asked.
Does sound like a borked CD / DVD.
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Assuming this all works out a Silver Bullet may well be in my future. I'm starting to work on some pieces inspired by Klimt and the more I do, the more applications for stencils I am dreaming up.
In the meantime, I just want to get this thing to work.
If other CDs are working, then I assume the problem is with this particular CD and not the drive.
Danke, Bo-san,
Michael
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You can download the software from their website. Iirc my cd wouldn't work so that's what I did
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Thanks much, GCN!
It just occurred to me now that that might be a possibility and here you've confirmed it.
I shall give it a shot.
Cheers
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OK....seems to have worked....I have what appears to be the page as it appears in the instruction book. (I know....using an instruction book marks me as a Neanderthal.) Will give it all a spin tomorrow.
Cheers
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OK...back in the game....
Software seems to have downloaded fine and I am working through the book step by step.
I tried cutting out some text using draft paper. The text appeared to have cut cleanly but the draft paper stuck to the mat to the point where it tore apart and I have just spent the past half hour scraping off a mess. (Drat...and with a fresh manicure!)
So, as I plan to cut all my stencils out of Frisket, I will try that next.
Any words of wisdom??
Thanks,
Michael
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The cutting mat is very tacky when it is new. Take an old t shirt which is fairly lint free and press it over the mat 3-4 times to make it a bit less sticky. The paper will then come up easier without tearing.
George
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SB system must be different; cutting matt comes with adhesive dots that you re-apply just about every media change, no problem getting even tissue paper off of it when it is fresh...
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OK....thanks, George. Will give this a try. I may also try adapting Bo's dot idea using the little adhesive dots used on drafting boards. (Yes, I still draw plans with a pencil.) I can reattach the protective cover that came with the cutting mat and just attach the target paper using the dots around the outside. All seem like viable possibilities.
Onward......
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I don't know how the Silver Bullet works exactly, but the Silhouette needs a tacky surface under the entire area to be cut. If there is no tack, the paper will pull and bunch up as the blade cuts causing the machine to jam. Trust me, I had this happen when my mat's tackiness got a bit low. The machine will make an awful noise and possibly strip the gears as it tries to move, but can't.
George
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Michael,
I am the new owner of a Silhouette Portrait. I found the following settings to work well for Grafix Frisket Film (clear, .002):
Blade: 2
Speed: 1
Thickness: 2
No double cut, no line segment overcut. These settings cut the film, but not the backing paper at least for me. I would also recommend using an extra bit of film (or similar) over your mask to help transferral its intended location.
Hope that helps and good luck.
Chris
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I don't know how the Silver Bullet works exactly, but the Silhouette needs a tacky surface under the entire area to be cut.
Yep, same on the SB -- maybe the system is identical, I don't know. The cutting mat is a more or less ordinary cutting mat, upon which you apply tiny dots of adhesive which are supplied on large sheets. Very simple to apply. The dots can last several changes of media, but if you want to be absolutely certain the media won't skew (esp when using lots of force) you can apply fresh dots. After awhile you can clean it all off and start over. I've done this exactly once since I've owned my machine.
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Well, when it comes to being tacky, I am an expert so this should be a breeze.
Thanks to all of you for the input. This is very helpful and the moral support is grand.
I will try to get back to it tomorrow.
Cheers!!!!
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Michael,
I'm really interested to see how this goes. I'm sure you'll get some great results.
Warren
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Hey all.....I have been putting in the time getting ready for an exhibition later this month....actually, we'll be opening two weeks from today...eeegaddd!
But, I've just realized that I have a piece for which frisket stencils would be perfect. I will get back to trying to chronologically shrink the learning curve on making them tomorrow or Sunday.....and I may shoot up a flare.
Here's the piece that's serving as the inspiration....an Italian Futurist sugar bowl.....I'm actually doing a tea pot and had planned to brush paint the colored portions, but, being able to make shapes like these as stencils would be an amazing time saver.....
(http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag293/michaelscarborough1/2014-07-09135838_zpsfd329504.jpg) (http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/michaelscarborough1/media/2014-07-09135838_zpsfd329504.jpg.html)
I know I can figure out the mechanics of this whole thing, but, it's the getting the shapes into the computer (never having used Illustrator or anything at all similar) that has me trepidized.
But, one step at a time.....
First, a good night's sleep....
Then, coffee in the AM....
Cheers,
Michael
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FWIW, here's another of the Italian Futurist pieces.....I was not familiar with this period of art.....Italy from early 1900s up until 1944. They were a wild bunch of guys and the airplane figured in a lot of their work.
(http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag293/michaelscarborough1/2014-07-09144026_zps34d50994.jpg) (http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/michaelscarborough1/media/2014-07-09144026_zps34d50994.jpg.html)
(http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag293/michaelscarborough1/2014-07-09143208_zps2c6e9427.jpg) (http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/michaelscarborough1/media/2014-07-09143208_zps2c6e9427.jpg.html)
OK....art history lesson over for this evening.....
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S'ok, it's the sugar bowl is still on topic because it's painted in disruptive pattern #3. ;)
I could sure use some 1/72nd French roundel masks cut as I'm afraid I'm going to have to paint them for my Nieuport builds. :-\
Looking forward to see what you do with this Michael.
Warren
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I'd say use an Olfa circle cutter but I don't think it will cut that small.
Let me get this all figured out and I will be glad to do what I can.
After all, we Sons of the South must stick together.
Cheers, y'all,
Michael
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Indeed we must! :) I've got an Olfa cutter I purchased some years back that I put in the drawer for just such a reason, but it's the center of the roundel that's the bug-a-bear. Friends of mine in the past have sprayed the appropriate color on a sheet of clear decal film, and used a piece of brass or copper tubing with the edge ground down to "punch" out the centers. I may have to try that.
Anyway, I'm nowhere near needing them right now, so press on with the art project!
Warren
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the guy that makes gator glue does masks on commision. you send artwork or in the case of simple roundels just dimesions and he can make as many as you need. he made me some masks for a submarine i built for this couple who wanted to give it as a gift. there was no sub kit of the one their father served on so i cut up a couple kits to make it. long story short i needed the numbers for the coning tower i emailed him a black and white photo and he made some in the u.s. navy boxy font the size i asked for and send spares. i know you could give him proportions for say french roundels and he could do a page with various sizes in that proportion for very reasonable then mail them to you.website here:
http://www.gatorsmask.com/
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Thanks Albatros1234, I had forgotten about that guy. I'll give him a shout. That will leave Michael more time to paint disruptive camo schemes on things for the kitchen. ::) ;) ;) 8)
Krow113, thanks for the kind offer! If I get stuck, I'll certainly give you a shout.
Warren
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Hey guys, thanks to all of you for the offers and information.
Since I am so pressed or time, I have decided to leave technology for now and just cut the stencils I need using a combo of the Olfa cutter and a good old Exacto knife. But, I see many possibilities for more pieces in this series (not to mention really important stuff like patterns for the DFW in the Halb camo.) so, I will be back on this thread in two weeks.
Cheers,
Michael
Krow, I love your assistants!
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I was going to give you grief for never having heard of the Italian Futurist movement ... I mean, that's (Western) Art History 101 bro ... But then I recalled I didn't know who Hokusai was until my kid dragged me to the retrospective in Paris this last fall... ;D
Futurist Manifesto, paragraph 4:
We declare that the splendor of the world has been enriched by a new beauty: the beauty of speed. A racing automobile with its bonnet adorned with great tubes like serpents with explosive breath ... a roaring motor car which seems to run on machine-gun fire, is more beautiful than the Victory of Samothrace.
WWI kinda took all the fun out it...
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"WWI kinda took all the fun out it..."
Didn't it though?
Krow, regarding your feline managers, I know what you mean. ;)
Warren
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Well, fact is I never studied art history and, boy oh boy, how I wish I had. For me school was all about music and drama. (And lacrosse and, ah, girls.) I've always enjoyed wandering museums but didn't really know what I was looking at until I left music in 2000 and got into antique furniture restoration. I was taking classes in antiques connoisseurship and we'd go to the Met, look at furniture, then go look at paintings from the same time period. I found that I wanted to see more and more paintings and have, in the past dozen years given myself sort of an art history education...but it was always pretty much pre 1850ish. Then I went to the Guggenheim to see the James Turrell and, in the process started really looking at the Modernist paintings...and REALLY looking at the building. That started opening up doors in my head and going back to see the Italian Futurists REALLY cracked my noggin open. The off to see the Cubists at the Met. But preparing my lecture on the Japanese influences on European art last fall was what really got the ball rolling to start making more contemporary pieces. Now I am lost in the world of art and blissfully so. I am leaving a lot out but basically, once this B'more show is over and I have gotten myself established with the galleries on the radar, I plan to go to the Art Students League and become a fine artist.....so I'm doing it all backward and beginning at 62. But, hey, I'm being collected and have pieces in some pretty major collections so better late than never and in whatever order the Universe throws it at me.
Aren't you glad you asked?
I'm glad you found Hokusai....he's one of my main men.
Cheers,
Michael
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Well, I'm glad he asked. ::)
Warren
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I come to this forum as an escape from my daily job as an artist in animation, but what do I find? Artists discussing the intricacies of art history, lol! I guess birds of a feather...
But I shouldn't be surprised. The work demonstrated in this forum couldn't be done without the eye of a artist. Everyone here is an artist in some form or another.
George
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The work demonstrated in this forum couldn't be done without the eye of a artist. Everyone here is an artist in some form or another.
George
Very well said George, we are all, in some way, an artist dispalying our artistic abilities in the form of WW1 aeroplanes.
Des.
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* I have a confession - my first degree was in Art Theory *
WHAT?? YOU STUDIED ART THEORY??
oops, your secret is out... ;D
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Don't worry, I did a real degree as well! :)
I didn't, but it all worked out anyway ;)
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Don't worry, I did a real degree as well! :)
I didn't, but it all worked out anyway ;)
Hallelujah brother!
;)
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Don't worry, I did a real degree as well! :)
Me too, except I was stupid enough to get two degrees. :-\
Warren